From Patrick O'Sullivan

Post Graduate Scholarships in Ireland

As part of the exchange agreement between Ireland and Britain, the Irish
Government is offering three postgraduate scholarships to British students.
It is expected that the candidates chosen should have obtained a First or
Upper Second Class Honours Degree and have obtained a place at an Irish
institution.

Further information and application forms are available from the Embassy of
Ireland. Completed applications should be returned no later than 31 March
2000.


To: Secretary
Scholarships Exchange Scheme
Embassy of Ireland
17 Grosvenor Place
London SW1X 7HR



- --
Patrick O'Sullivan
Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Irish-Diaspora list
Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/

Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Department of Interdisciplinary Human Studies
University of Bradford
Bradford BD7 1DP
Yorkshire
England

From Patrick O'Sullivan

I think I should note that the new Oxford History of the British Empire is now complete,
with Volume 5, Historiography, edited by Robin W. Winks. This series is, in effect, the
new British history in action - the new approach is integrated, and the series is very
well produced and very well referenced.

I often use - because you have to - the old Cambridge History of the British Empire, which
is a product of the 1930s and 1940s, and of an even earlier mind-set. You sometimes get
extraordinary effects by putting the two histories side by side.

The series is
Wm. Roger Louis, editor in chief, The Oxford History of the British Empire, Oxford
University Press
5 volumes

Full details can be found at
http://www.oup.co.uk/history/
and it is really worth looking at the chapter headings and the listed authors there.

I often not as yet actually finished my reading of all 5 volumes. But Volume 1, The
Origins of Empire, edited by Nicholas Canny, has already proved very useful - it includes
Beckles on the Caribbean and Barnard on Ireland. And Winks, Volume 5, on the
Historiography is going to be a marvellous resource.

P.O'S.


- --
Patrick O'Sullivan
Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Irish-Diaspora list
Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/

Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Department of Interdisciplinary Human Studies
University of Bradford
Bradford BD7 1DP
Yorkshire
England

From Patrick O'Sullivan

Since this issue has re-surfaced - thank you, Bruce - I think it right to report that I
have received some communications, addressed to me personally, not to the Irish-Diaspora
list, from people who, because of personal experience, or the experiences of friends, feel
that there is an important but painful issue here. One person used the word
'controversial'.

All I can say is what I have said already on the Irish-Diaspora list - the issue surfaces
again and again in individual life stories. And all I could do in The Irish World Wide
series was to flag this issue, and related issues, as needing scholarly exploration. In
Patrick O'Sullivan, ed., Religion and Identity, Volume 5 of The Irish World Wide (1996,
paperback 2000), p. 13-14, I shared my bafflement about the silences in Edmund H. Hogan,
The Irish Missionary Movement, 1990, by quoting the Irish Literary Supplement reviewer -
who was, in fact, David W. Miller. Miller floated the idea of a 'clergy surplus' being
exported - which has, I said then, the merits of placing the discussion within discussion
of career structures and career opportunities. I said then, 'This is clearly an area
where the sensitivity of the subject matter creates gaps in the literature.' And I drew
attention to the character Jack in Friel's Dancing at Lughnasa.

Earlier in the week I found myself sharing with Michael Curran anecdotes about the school
I attended in Liverpool, England - during part 2 of my strange childhood. A Catholic
school. Well, here's another anecdote, Michael...

Members of Catholic religious orders would come regularly to the school, to hold retreats
and seek vocations. (Members of the Ir-D list of non-Catholic heritage should go now, and
find a Catholic, and have all this explained...) Since I was a good, hard-working lad I
would be wheeled in for private interview with these visiting religious - and this, I
though then and still think now, was quite unfair. I remember saying to one priest,
'Look, Father, I have thought about this deeply - and I am as convinced as I possibly
could be that I do NOT have a vocation for the priesthood...' And he said, 'Great! -
you're just the sort of man we want.'

P.O'S.


- --
Patrick O'Sullivan
Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Irish-Diaspora list
Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/

Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Department of Interdisciplinary Human Studies
University of Bradford
Bradford BD7 1DP
Yorkshire
England

From: "Bruce Stewart"
Subject: Re: Ir-D Destined for the priesthood

Thank you Patrick. A word more, if you please. As everyone knows
'destined for a priest' commonly means 'his mother wanted him to
become a priest'. It's not such an odd usage. There is an English
phrase 'intended for the law, army, &c.' which means the same
thing in a secular context.

The more interesting coinage is perhaps 'vocation' which means, of
course a 'calling' and presupposes that someone/thing out there
beyond the cerulean blue is whispering the words of
encouragement at the candidate for ointment. Given the socio-
cultural input to the average priesting in Ireland, this conception
might be regarded with a certain amount of cynicism but the
likelihood is that most novices feel a subjective conviction that the
deity requires their services and has shown signs of some
description. The psycho-sexual dimension of the question is
obviously a matter of some interest at the present time in Ireland.

I notice from the league tables that the lowest stream of entrants in
terms of academic qualifications to the National University at
Maynooth is the seminary students. It may be that this was the
case equally in the past and one explanation for the moribund
condition of the Irish catholic church is the fact that, on the whole,
its personnel were intellectually challenged. The compensating
factor is, of course, that they were people's priests and therefore no
doubt the best suited to the administration of Irish parishes, but
some writers have quarrelled with this view, as for instance the
author of the following:

"The whole town depends on the shopkeepers. Not only do they
own the shops, but they own the other houses as well and all the
land round about, and they have most fo the farmers ? in their
books ? . The gombeen men pay most of the dues and the priests
stand as their friends through thick and thin. There's nobody in the
town for the priests, but Hinnissey and Darcy and the like. If a man
won't go to mass Father Tom abuses him and threatens to get Mr
Darcy and Mr Donoghue to give him the sack. And if a man
objectes to the wages he gets from Hinnissey, Hinnissey threatens
him with hell and damnation from Fr. Tom.' (Father Ralph, 1913
[1st edn.], p.295.)

No discussion of the question of religious vocations in Ireland is
complete without a reference to Gerald O'Donovan's "Fr. Ralph", a
novel that examines the intake of Maynooth with a dispassionate
eye and less dispassionately anatomises the motivation and
conduct of the diocesan clergy. O'Donovan was, of course,
'destined' to leave the church, to marry a Protestant woman from
Donegal, and then to conduct an extramarital affair with the English
novelist Rose Macaulay. Believers in divine retribution (if there are
any) will note with interest that he died from injuries to the head
received in a car crash while on holiday with her in the Lake
District. As everyone knows, Moore's The Lake is modelled on his
apostasy.O'Donovan was the organiser of the decoration of
Loughrea Cathedral with the best handicrafts work of the Irish
Renaissance before he fell out with his boorish bishop.

Although the best contemporary Irish novelist in terms of writerly
abilities and a social reformer of some consequence, his death in
1942 passed unnoticed in any Irish newspaper, such was the
blanket censureship of the period. John F. Ryan has written a
superb introduction to the 1993 Mount Brandon reprint of "Fr.
Ralph", which has sold well and is much admired by everyone who
reads it.

Bruce.


bsg.stewart[at]ulst.ac.uk
Languages & Lit/English
University of Ulster
tel (44) 01265 32 4355
fax (44) 01265 32 4963

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Dymphna=20Lonergan?=
Subject: Re: Faction Fighting

I read an interesting article in The Irish Times on
faction fighting among travelling people. It was
stated that 'we', meaning the settled community, 'gave
that up a long time ago' I realised I know little
about faction fighting, in particular, that it
apparently had a limited time span. Anyone know when
'we' gave 'it' up or better still why we indulged in
the first place?

Dymphna Lonergan

From Patrick O'Sullivan

I have pasted in below a list of the main contents of the latest issue of Irish Social and
Economic History, plus the summaries of the 3 main articles.

Of particular interest to Irish Diaspora Studies is the Foley and Guinnane article, which
apart from the fine detail of their argument (they are unimpressed by 'cultural'
explanations, and, in the end, find little that really demands complex explanations)
touches, with helpful references, on recurring Ir-D themes and issues. Examples here
would be uses of census material to explore patterns, use of family name evidence (looking
back to Matheson, 1901), male-female contrasts...

P.O'S.


IRISH ECONOMIC AND SOCIAL HISTORY
VOL. XXVI 1999

CONTENTS

ARTICLES
Elizabeth Malcolm: Troops of Largely Diseased Women: VD, the
Contagious Diseases Acts and Moral Policing in late Nineteenth-
Century Ireland

Marc C. Foley and Timothy W.Guinnane: Did Irish Marriage Patterns
Survive the Emigrant Voyage? Irish-American Nuptiality,
1880-1920

Mel Cousins: The Introduction of Children' s Allowances in Ireland,
1939-1944

DOCUMENTS AND SOURCES
Donald Woodward: Irish Trade and Customs Statistics, 1614-164

ARCHIVES REPORT
Brian DonneIly: National Archives: Survey of Business Records
Public Record Office of Northenl heland: Recent Accessions of
Interest to the Social and Economic Historian

THESIS ABSTRACTS
Mark McCarthy: The Historical Geography of Cork's
Transformation from a Late Medieval Town into
an Atlantic Port City, 1600-1700
Brian Doman: Inishkea Islands, County Mayo
Kieran Foley: Kerry during the Great Famine, 1845-52

BIBLIOGRAPHY
Bernadette Cunningham and Raymond Gllespie:
Select Bibliography of Writings on hish Economic and
Social History published in 1998

SUMMARIES OF ARTICLES
ELIZABEIH MALCOLM. Troops of Largely Diseased Women: VD, the Contagious Diseases
Acts and Moral Policing in late Nineteenth-Century Ireland. The Contagious Diseases
Acts (1864-86), which aimed to control VD among the military by regulating prosti-
tution, were introduced in Ireland as well as England. This raises the question of how
serious a VD problem Ireland had in the nineteenth century and to what extent pros-
titutes were responsible for it. Campaigns were launched both for and against the acts,
while lock hospitals were built and staffed to deal with women certified under the acts.
This article argues that the acts, although eventually repealed, helped spur all the
major Irish churches to assert that prostitution in particular and female sexuality in
general were moral issues, not public health ones to be controlled by the state through
the medium of the police.

MARC C. FOLEY and Timothy W. GUINNANE. Did Irish Marriage Patterns
Survive the Emigrant Voyage? Irish-Amerian nuptiality, 1880-1920.
Marriage in Ireland
became relatively uncommon in the decades following the Great Famine of the
1840s. By 1911 over one-quarter of each cohort in Ireland had never married. Expla-
nations of Ireland's demographic patterns often turn on some supposed distinctive
feature of Irish culture. Several authors have supported this line of reasoning by
noting that in the United States, the lrish-born and their children were less likely to
marry than were native whites of native parentage, and indeed less likely to marry
than nearly any other immigrant group. This comparison is misleading, however:
the Irish in the United States had other characteristics that were associated with low
marriage chances among natives. This paper uses the Public Use Sample of the
United States census of 1880, 1900, 1910 and 1920 to achieve a fine-grained compari-
son of the Irish (immigrants and their children) to native whites. Once we control for
the Irish immigrants' relatively low socio-economic status the differences in marriage
patterns are smaller than simple tabulations imply. Moreover, a significant change in
Irish-American nuptiality between 1880 and 1910, along with differences in the expe-
riences of men and women, cast doubt on any story that would focus on deep-seated
attitudes and apply to all Irish people. We discuss the implications of these findings
for studies of demographic patterns in Ireland and of Irish and other immigrant
groups in the United States.

MEL COUSINS. The Introduction of Children's Allowances in Ireland, 1939-1944.
The article looks at the introduction of children's allowances in Ireland in 1944. This
was a
very important social policy measure, particularly given the fact that it took place dur-
ing the Second World War. The cost of children's allowances represented an increase
of over one-quarter in existing expenditure. It is argued that the reasons behind the
introduction of children's allowances related to Fianna Fail policy on the alleviation of
poverty in large families, general support for the family (as evidenced in the Constitu-
tion) and the fact that it was politically attractive. Faced by a number of what it
identi-
lied as problems of public policy - including initially population decline - the Fianna
Fail government turned to a new form of welfare. Although, children's allowances of
various types appeared in many Western countries in the 1930s and 1940s, the partic-
ular shape they took varied greatly to reflect local conditions. This case study also
suggests that, despite some wavering, Flanna Fail in the early 1940s still realised the
importance of social policy development to its overall electoral success and that the
party still had the potential for quite radical social measures.


- --
Patrick O'Sullivan
Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Irish-Diaspora list
Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/

Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Department of Interdisciplinary Human Studies
University of Bradford
Bradford BD7 1DP
Yorkshire
England

From Patrick O'Sullivan

Sir Herman Ouseley is stepping down as Chairman of the Commission for Racial Equality,
London. It was during Herman's watch that the CRE commissioned and saw through to
completion the Hickman & Walter report on the experiences of Irish people in Britain -
this despite, to put it mildly, the antipathy of the then Conservative government.

I have now been told that there will be a discussion evening and reception to mark Sir
Herman Ouseley's contribution to the Irish community as Chairman of the
Commission for Racial Equality - titled
'The Irish - at the heart of the race for equality in Britain?'.

This discussion will be on April 13th at 19:30, London Voluntary Resource
Centre, 356 Holloway Rd. Nearest tube Holloway Rd. (Piccadilly Line).
Contact: 020 7700 8137.

P.O'S.


- --
Patrick O'Sullivan
Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Irish-Diaspora list
Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/

Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Department of Interdisciplinary Human Studies
University of Bradford
Bradford BD7 1DP
Yorkshire
England

From Patrick O'Sullivan

Those who know the work of Lance Pettitt, of St. Mary's University College, Strawberry
Hill, London, will be interested to learn that we now have details of his forthcoming book
on film and television representations of Ireland...

Lance Pettitt

Screening Ireland:
Film and Television Representation

Manchester University Press/St Martin's Press, NY

Publication date: 8 June 2000
ISBN: Pb 0-7190-5270-X
Price: st£14.99

Something to be looked forward to...

P.O'S.

- --
Patrick O'Sullivan
Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Irish-Diaspora list
Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/

Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Department of Interdisciplinary Human Studies
University of Bradford
Bradford BD7 1DP
Yorkshire
England

From: ppo[at]aber.ac.uk (Paul O' Leary)
Subject: William Smith O'Brien, etc.

From: Paul O'Leary


Eamonn Barnes, the former Director of Public Prosecutions for the Republic
of Ireland, delivered a fascinating public lecture at Aberystwyth last night
on Irish law and lawyers through history which had much to interest students
of the Irish diaspora. It would appear that from the earliest times those
involved with the law in Ireland were a particularly mobile group. Has
anybody researched this from a migration studies viewpoint?
One figure mentioned in the course of the lecture was William Smith
O'Brien who died in Bangor, north Wales. Is there a biography of Smith
O'Brien? I should be grateful if someone could provide some references.

Paul O'Leary

Dr. Paul O'Leary
Adran Hanes a Hanes Cymru / Dept. of History and Welsh History,
Prifysgol Cymru Aberystwyth / University of Wales Aberystwyth,
Aberystwyth,
Ceredigion, Wales, SY23 3DY

Tel: 01970 622842
Fax: 01970 622676

From: Kevin Kenny
Subject: Re: Ir-D New British History

>From Kevin Kenny

By way of a footnote to Kerby Miller's question on 'new
Brirish history' and specifically on Wales, I can recommend
three books on the 'Rebecca' protest movement of the 1830s
and 1840s:

David J.V. Jones, _Rebecca's Children: A Study of Rural
Society, Crime and Protest_ (New York, 1989)
David Williams, _The Rebecca Riots: A Study in Agrarian
Discontent_ (Cardiff, 1955)
Henry Tobit Evans, _Rebecca and her Daughters_ (Cardiff,
1910).

For teaching purposes, the first title would suffice; the
other two might help students or scholars hoping to do more
detailed research.

I raise the topic of the Welsh Rebeccas because (at the
risk of special pleading) it points to a potential unifying
theme in the study of the 'archipelago': the temporal
and spatical development of rural 'preindustrial' protest
movements.

Hope this is of some help.

----------------------
Kevin Kenny
Department of History, Boston College
140 Commonwealth Avenue, Chestnut Hill, MA 02467
Phone(617)552-1196; Fax(617)552-3714; kennyka[at]bc.edu
www2.bc.edu/~kennyka/

From: Patrick Maume
Subject: Re: Ir-D "New" British history

From: Patrick Maume

> I recall some books I looked at 20 years ago by a Welsh
Marxist
> historian who was concerned with cultural poltitics. His name
escapes me,
> however, and I've had no luck tracking anything down.

Was it Gwyn A. Williams, author of the book and television series
WHEN WAS WALES?
Kenneth Morgan also did a standard history of modern Wales. (A
great Labour historian - shame Blair refused Callaghan's request to
give him a peerage, a dirty little secret revealed by Ivor Richard,
the former Leader of the Lords).
Best wishes,
Patrick

From: Patrick Maume
Subject: Re: Ir-D Ireland Abroad, Conference
From: Patrick Maume
The Nineteenth-Century Ireland Society usually publishes proceedings
volumes a year or two after the conference (there are now four - the
1997 one - NINETEENTH-CENTURY IRELAND: THE REGIONAL DIMENSION came out
from Four Courts Press, Dublin, this month, and they hope to have the
98 one - on the 98 rising, the Young Irelanders and the 1898
commemorations - out later this year and the 99 one on the union soon
afterwards).
It would be advisable to get in touch at or after the conference,as
some papers may not be fully written up yet!
For further information see the Society website,
http://www.qub.ac.uk/english/socs/ssnci.html

Best wishes,
Patrick

On Tue 21 Mar 2000 08:46:00 +0000 irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk wrote:

> From:irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk> Date: Tue 21 Mar 2000 08:46:00
+0000
> Subject: Ir-D Ireland Abroad, Conference
> To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
>
>
> From:
> Linda Dowling Almeida
> "Almeida, Ed (Exchange)"
> Subject: RE: Ir-D Ireland Abroad, Conference
>
> Is it possible to get copies of any of these papers? Will the
conference
> publish any of them? Or is it best to contact individual presenters
for the
> papers we'd like to see?
> Linda Dowling Almeida
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
[SMTP:irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk]
> > Sent: Friday, March 17, 2000 5:01 AM
> > To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
> > Subject: Ir-D Ireland Abroad, Conference
> >
> >
> >
> > [I thought that the Irish-Diaspora list might like to see the
provisional
> > programme for
> > the forthcoming Society for the Study of Nineteenth Century
Ireland
> > Conference - it is a
> > strong programme, almost a check list for current themes in Irish
Diaspora
> > Studies...
> >
> > P.O'S.]
> >
> >
> > Ireland Abroad
> > University of Aberdeen, Scotland
> > April 14-16 2000
> >
> > Provisional Conference Programme
> >
> > Friday, April 14:
> > 2 - 5 p.m.: Registration
> >
> > 5.15 p.m.: First Plenary Session Prof. Declan Kiberd, University
College,
> > Dublin. 'The
> > French and American Diaries of Wolfe Tone'
> >
> > 7 p.m. : Reception hosted by Aberdeen City Council at the Town
House,
> > Aberdeen, and the
> > launch of G. Hooper & L. Litvack (eds.) Ireland in the Nineteenth
Century:
> > Regional
> > Identity.
> >
> > Saturday, April 15:
> > 9.00 - 10.30 a.m.: Martin O'Cathain, Magee College. 'Fenian
Dynamite:
> > Dissident Irish
> > Republicans in Late Nineteenth Century Scotland'.
> >
> > Martin Mitchell, University of Aberdeen. 'Irish Priests in
Scotland in the
> > First Half of
> > the Nineteenth Century'.
> >
> > Michelle Cotter, Maynooth. 'Irish Involvement in the Sutherland
> > Clearances, 1813-14'.
> >
> > 10.30 -11.00 a.m.: Tea and Coffee
> >
> > 11.00 - 12.30 p.m.: Kathleen Costello-Sullivan, Boston College.
'Who is
> > Kim?: Rudyard
> > Kipling and the Haunting of the Colonial Imagination ,
> >
> > Neil McCaw, King Alfred's College. 'Trollope and the O'Trollopes:
Irish
> > Identity Home and
> > Away'
> >
> > Patrick Maume, Queen's University, Belfast. ' A Protestant
Pilgrimage:
> > Finlay's The
> > Orangeman as an Ulster-American Origin Narrative'
> >
> > 12.30 -1.30 p.m.: Lunch
> >
> > 1.30- 3.00 p.m.: Session One Diane Hotten-Somers, Boston
University.
> > 'Moral Maids and
> > Materialistic Mistresses: The Evolution of the Relationship
between Irish
> > Domestic
> > Servants and American Mistresses from 1850-1920. ,
> >
> > Elizabeth Malcolm, University of Liverpool. 'The Irish Policeman
Abroad:
> > Imperial Stooge
> > or Upwardly-Mobile Professional?'
> >
> > Louise Miskell, University of Dundee. 'The Heroic Irish Doctor:
Irish
> > Immigrants in the
> > Medical Profession in Nineteenth Century Wales'
> >
> > 1.30- 3.00 p.m.: Session Two Cliona Ni Gallchoir, University
College,
> > Cork. 'MIne. de
> > Genlis and Ireland'
> >
> > Brigitte Anton, Linenhall Library, Belfast. 'Jacob Venedey and
Irish
> > Nationalism'
> >
> > Brian Rainey, University of Regina. 'From Limerick to Regina: the
Cultural
> > Mission of
> > Nicholas Flood David
> >
> > 3.00- 3.30 p.m.: Tea and Coffee
> >
> > 3.30- 5.00 p.m.: Session One Liam Harte, St. Mary's College,
Strawberry
> > Hill. 'Immigrant
> > Self-Fashioning: The Autobiographical Writings of the Irish in
Victorian
> > Britain,
> >
> > Nuala McAllister, University of Ulster at Coleraine. 'To Talent
Alone?:
> > the Status,
> > Achievements and Working Conditions of some Irish-Born Musicians
in Europe
> > and South
> > Africa ,
> >
> > Mervyn Busteed, Manchester University. 'Procession and Song:
Asserting
> > lrishness in
> > Manchester in 1867'
> >
> > 3.39- 4.30 p.m.: Session Two Peter Denman, Maynooth. 'Imagining
Abroad:
> > Charles Wolfe and
> > William Maginn'
> >
> > Ian McClelland, Queen's University, Belfast. 'Irish Gentry
Cultural
> > Transmissions in
> > Colonial Victoria, Australia ,
> >
> > 5.15 p.m. Second Plenary Session Prof. David Fitzpatrick, Trinity
College,
> > Dublin.
> > 'Exporting Brotherhood: Orangeism Abroad'
> >
> > 6.45 p.m. Annual General Meeting of the Society for the Study of
> > Nineteenth Century
> > Ireland.
> >
> > 7.45 p.m.: Conference Dinner
> >
> > Sunday, April 16.
> >
> > 9.30- 11.00 a.m.: Jason King, Maynooth. 'Ireland Abroad/Broadening
> > Ireland: From Famine
> > Migrants to Asylum- Applicants and Refugees ,
> >
> > Lindsay Proudfoot, Queen's University, Belfast. 'Memory, Place and
Symbol:
> > Towards a
> > Geography of Irish Identities in Colonial Australia ,
> >
> > Stephen Kenny, University of Regina. 'Transposition or
Transformation: Did
> > Irish migration
> > to Canada intensify anti-catholicism?
> >
> > 11.00 -11.30 a.m.: Tea and Coffee
> >
> > 11.30- 1.00 p.m.: Nini Rodgers, Queen's University, Belfast.
'Richard
> > Robert Madden: an
> > Irish Anti-Slavery Activist in the Americas ,
> >
> > Ruth-Ann Harris, Boston College. 'Negotiating Patriarchy: Women
the
> > Landlord and
> > Emigration from County Monaghan ,
> >
> > Frank NEAL, Salford University. ' 1847: Glasgow and the Famine
Irish ,
> >
> > 1.00 - 2.00 p.m.: Lunch, and close of Conference.
> >
> >
> >
>

From: "Thomas J. Archdeacon"
Subject: Irish Domestics

A student of mine and I were discussing the topic of Irish female domestics
and American historiography. Thinking out loud, I commented that some
percentage of domestics in England must have been Irish. Neither my
student nor I, however, could think of a specific reading on the subject.
Therefore, I pose two questions. 1. Does anyone have an estimate of the
share of Irish among domestics in England in the late 19th and early 20th
centuries? 2. What would be the most relevant reading in the general
subject area?

Thanks.

Tom


Thomas J. Archdeacon, Prof. Office: 608-263-1778/1800
Department of History Fax: 608-263-5302
University of Wisconsin -- Madison Home: 608-251-7264
5133 Humanities Building E-Mail: tjarchde[at]facstaff.wisc.edu
Madison, Wisconsin 53706-1483

[Moderator's note:
I deduce from internal evidence that Tom is using the word 'domestic' in the sense of
'household servant'...
P.O'S.]

From: "Elizabeth Malcolm"
Subject: Faction Fighting

I am reading a new book about violence in post-Famine Ireland. I haven't
finished it yet, but I would recommend it generally to anyone interested in
19th-century Irish social history: Carolyn A. Conley, 'Melancholy
Accidents: the Meaning of Violence in Post-Famine Ireland', Lanham MD:
Lexington Books, 1999.

One chapter deals with what she terms 'recreational violence' and that has
quite a lot to say about faction fighting. It's a phenomenon I've been
interested in for a long time and thought had never really been properly
addressed. The main book on the subject was Patrick O'Donnell's 'Irish
Faction Fighters of the 19th Century', Dublin: Anvil, 1975, which is
anecdotal and popular in approach.

Conley has some interesting things to say about violence as a form of sport
or leisure, and I was rather startled by her claim that in the 4 counties
she studied from the 1860s into the 1890s over '42 percent of all homicides
were recreational in origin' (p.17).

She also looks at domestic violence and sex and violence and later
chapters, which I haven't reached yet, deal with violence associated with
politics and religion.

And yet she makes the point strongly that, despite popular perceptions,
Ireland was not excessively violent by contemporary standards. If you just
take homicide statistics, they consistently ran at only about two-thirds of
the comparable figures for England and Wales, while property crime was
about half of English levels. However, she does suggest, and provides
plenty of court evidence to back up the claim, that the Irish had a more
forgiving or accepting attitude to violence than the English - thus her
title.

Anyway, it's a book I would recommend - and certainly to someone looking
for information about faction fighting.

Elizabeth Malcolm
Liverpool

On Faction Fighting... James Lundon has sent in the following Web addresses, which will
be of interest.

Thank you, James.

Note that if your email system automatically shortens long lines some of these long Wed
addresses may get fractured...

P.O'S.

http://library.northernlight.com/PG19991004020004933.html?cb=0&sc=0#doc

Title: The agreeable recreation of fighting

Summary: Using 19th century Ireland as a case study, Conley argues that historians have
overlooked the significance of the recreational element in studying violence. At times,
violence served as sport in Ireland.

Source: Journal of Social History
Date: 10/01/1999
Price: $2.95
Document Size: Long (8 to 25 pages)
Document ID: PG19991004020004933
Subject(s): Violence; Sports; Recreation; History; Society; Culture

Citation Information: ISSN: 0022-4529; Vol. 33 No. 1; p. 57
Author(s): Carolyn Conley
Copyright Holder: 1999, Professor Peter L. Stearns Fall
Document Type: Article


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0739100076/o/qid=944850599/sr=8-1/102
- -3505602-6264065

http://www.sbs.uab.edu/history/conley.htm

Carolyn A. Conley is a British historian specializing in nineteenth century social
history. Her first book, The Unwritten Law: Criminal Justice in Victorian Kent, (Oxford
University Press, 1991), uses the records of the criminal justice system in a
nineteenth-century English county to examine community attitudes towards such issues as
violence, the rights of women and children, the significance of social class and the vague
but very important Victorian concept of respectability. Dr. Conley's new book, Melancholy
Accidents: The Meaning of Violence in Post-Famine Ireland (Lexington Books, 1998) is an
examination of interpersonal violence in post-famine Ireland. By focusing on non-political
violence, e.g., domestic abuse, brawls, assaults and murders for gain or revenge, Dr.
Conley offers a greater understanding of the alleged Irish propensity and enthusiasm for
violence. She spent the summer of 1989 working in the Irish National Archives in Dublin
where she discovered criminal court records which were previously believed to have been
lost in a fire. Her findings based on these records were the basis for a successful grant
application to the National Endowment for the Humanities, which she used to finance
research at the British Museum Newspaper Library in London. Articles based on this
research have appeared in Eire: Ireland and The Journal of Social History. Dr. Conley has
just begun a new project on violence in modern Scotland

From: ppo[at]aber.ac.uk (Paul O' Leary)
Subject: Re: Ir-D New British history

From: Paul O'Leary
Subject: New British History

Kevin Kenny makes an interesting point about the agrarian Rebecca riots of
west Wales in the 1830s and 1840s. In August 1843 Sir James Graham and
Robert Peel saw Wales as 'a second Ireland'. It has always seemed to me that
the comparison between disturbances in the Irish and Welsh countrysides,
which was frequently made by contemporaries, might be taken up as an
instructive example of comparative history.

Paul O'Leary




>
>From: Kevin Kenny
>Subject: Re: Ir-D New British History
>
>>From Kevin Kenny
>
>By way of a footnote to Kerby Miller's question on 'new
>Brirish history' and specifically on Wales, I can recommend
>three books on the 'Rebecca' protest movement of the 1830s
>and 1840s:
>
>David J.V. Jones, _Rebecca's Children: A Study of Rural
>Society, Crime and Protest_ (New York, 1989)
>David Williams, _The Rebecca Riots: A Study in Agrarian
>Discontent_ (Cardiff, 1955)
>Henry Tobit Evans, _Rebecca and her Daughters_ (Cardiff,
>1910).
>
>For teaching purposes, the first title would suffice; the
>other two might help students or scholars hoping to do more
>detailed research.
>
>I raise the topic of the Welsh Rebeccas because (at the
>risk of special pleading) it points to a potential unifying
>theme in the study of the 'archipelago': the temporal
>and spatical development of rural 'preindustrial' protest
>movements.
>
>Hope this is of some help.
>
>----------------------
>Kevin Kenny
>Department of History, Boston College
>140 Commonwealth Avenue, Chestnut Hill, MA 02467
>Phone(617)552-1196; Fax(617)552-3714; kennyka[at]bc.edu
>www2.bc.edu/~kennyka/
>
>
Dr. Paul O'Leary
Adran Hanes a Hanes Cymru / Dept. of History and Welsh History,
Prifysgol Cymru Aberystwyth / University of Wales Aberystwyth,
Aberystwyth,
Ceredigion, Wales, SY23 3DY

Tel: 01970 622842
Fax: 01970 622676

From: Patrick Maume
Subject: William Smith O'Brien

From: Patrick Maume
Richard Davis, the Tasmanian historian of Young Ireland, recently
published a biography of William Smith O'Brien. He has also edited a
small selection of his letters in David Fitzpatrick's NARRATIVES
series (Cork University Press).
Some years ago Blanche M. TOuhill published a book WILLIAM SMITH
O'BRIEN AND HIS COMPANIONS IN PENAL EXILE. In the 1940s Denis Gwynn
(a great-grandson of Smith O'Brien) published a study of Young Ireland
which centred on Smith O'Brien and drew on the family papers.
Smith O'Brien also appears (not very pleasantly) in Thomas
Kenneally's THE GREAT SHAME, which uncovers claims that he miolested a
jailer's daughter in Tasmania.
Was he travelling to catch the Holyhead ferry to Ireland when he
died at Bangor? Emblematic, perhaps.
Best wishes,
Patrick

On Fri 24 Mar 2000 09:10:00 +0000 irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk wrote:

> From:irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk> Date: Fri 24 Mar 2000 09:10:00
+0000
> Subject: Ir-D Irish lawyers
> To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
>
>
>
> From: ppo[at]aber.ac.uk (Paul O' Leary)
> Subject: William Smith O'Brien, etc.
>
> From: Paul O'Leary
>
>
> Eamonn Barnes, the former Director of Public Prosecutions for the
Republic
> of Ireland, delivered a fascinating public lecture at Aberystwyth
last night
> on Irish law and lawyers through history which had much to interest
students
> of the Irish diaspora. It would appear that from the earliest times
those
> involved with the law in Ireland were a particularly mobile group.
Has
> anybody researched this from a migration studies viewpoint?
> One figure mentioned in the course of the lecture was
William Smith
> O'Brien who died in Bangor, north Wales. Is there a biography of
Smith
> O'Brien? I should be grateful if someone could provide some
references.
>
> Paul O'Leary
>
> Dr. Paul O'Leary
> Adran Hanes a Hanes Cymru / Dept. of History and Welsh History,
> Prifysgol Cymru Aberystwyth / University of Wales Aberystwyth,
> Aberystwyth,
> Ceredigion, Wales, SY23 3DY
>
> Tel: 01970 622842
> Fax: 01970 622676

From: Dean_Holt[at]att.net
Subject: Help with Book selection

Hello: I hope this question will not be offensive for
being too elementary. I am a new list member who will
teach an upper-division history course on Ireland
1688-1923 in Fordham University Night School this Fall.
I have never taught anything but a general survey before.
Thus I have never been able to include one good book on
Irish emigration/diaspora. What one book would list
members suggest for a good discussion of the topic(keep
in mind the chronology of the course)? These are night
school students so I want to avoid anything too lengthy.
Thanks in advance for your help.
Patrick Holt
St. Basil College - Ukrainian Catholic Seminary
195 Glenbrook Road
Stamford, CT 06902-3099
phone: (203)324-4578
Fax: (203)357-7681
Dean_Holt[at]worldnet.att.net

From: Sarah Morgan
Subject: Re: Ir-D Domestics

There is evidence to suggest that Irish women in Britain experience, and
experienced, occupational segregation. In particular, Irish women have
been associated with the nursing profession and, like black Caribbean
women, have been targeted as recruits for nursing. However, there is also
evidence to suggest that Irish women are also clustered in unskilled
occupations such as domestic work, cleaning and laundry; here the
stereotypes would be of Irish women as nurses and washerwomen or
scrubbers.

For reading, I'd suggest:

Travers, Pauric 1993 "Emigration and Gender: the case of Ireland,
1922-1969" in M. O'Dowd and S. Wichert (eds) Chattel, Servant or
Citizen?, Institute of Irish Studies (Queen's University): Belfast

I am also pretty certain that there is another version of this, but
covering a longer time span in the volume on Irish Women and Irish
Migration which is part of Paddy's Irish World Wide series, but don't
have the reference to hand.

for a more contemporary discussion

Hickman, M.J. and Walter, B. 1999 "Racializing the Irish in England:
gender, class and ethnicity" in M. Cohen & N.J. Curtin (eds) Reclaiming
Gender: transgressive identities in modern Ireland, St. Martin's Press: NY

This discusses the class position, rather than occupations per se, but
useful assumptions can be drawn. Of course, there is a huge informal
economy operating when it comes to cleaning work here in Britain, as in
the States, so the real level of involvement is unknown.

Sarah Morgan.

On Fri 24 Mar 2000 10:12:00 +0000 irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk wrote:


>
>
> From: "Thomas J. Archdeacon"
> Subject: Irish Domestics
>
> A student of mine and I were discussing the topic of Irish female domestics
> and American historiography. Thinking out loud, I commented that some
> percentage of domestics in England must have been Irish. Neither my
> student nor I, however, could think of a specific reading on the subject.
> Therefore, I pose two questions. 1. Does anyone have an estimate of the
> share of Irish among domestics in England in the late 19th and early 20th
> centuries? 2. What would be the most relevant reading in the general
> subject area?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Tom
>
>
> Thomas J. Archdeacon, Prof. Office: 608-263-1778/1800
> Department of History Fax: 608-263-5302
> University of Wisconsin -- Madison Home: 608-251-7264
> 5133 Humanities Building E-Mail: tjarchde[at]facstaff.wisc.edu
> Madison, Wisconsin 53706-1483
>
> [Moderator's note:
> I deduce from internal evidence that Tom is using the word 'domestic' in the sense of
> 'household servant'...
> P.O'S.]
>

---------------------------
Sarah Morgan (Dr),
Irish Studies Centre,
University of North London.

From: "Marion R. Casey"
Subject: Race & the Irish


Today (3.24.2000) MSNBC is featuring a Reuters story that List members
might be interested in discussing:

"Geneticists find Irish are a race apart; Emerald Isle westerners share
unique Y chromosome type"

http://www.msnbc.com/news/385467.asp?cp1=1

It's based on a Trinity College study done by Daniel Bradley, et.al.

The report reminds me of a New York Times story (10/28/1925) "Irish Come
from Eskimos, German Professor Suggests." This was an Associated Press
story. According to the Berlin professor of philology, "In isolated parts
of Ireland and Scotland are to be found types with Mongol features,
oblique eyes, straight black hair and thin lips. Anthropologically these
types could only be connected with the Eskimos..."

Marion R. Casey
Department of History
New York University