From: Patrick Maume
Subject: Re: Ir-D 'Famine photograph' 2

From: Patrick Maume
I am currently doing some work on the IRISH INDEPENDENT and it happens
that in 1913 (just before the Dublin Lock-out/strike) the WEEKLY
INDEPENDENT launched an appeal for the people of southern Connemara,
who were suffering from crop fever and an outbreak of typhoid/typhus.
I wonder if the photo might date from that period or from one of the
other seasons of dearth in the west during the C19 - e.g. 1879,
1897-9.
Best wishes,
Patrick


On Sat 2 Sep 2000 07:35:00 +0000 irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk wrote:

> From:irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk> Date: Sat 2 Sep 2000 07:35:00
+0000
> Subject: Ir-D 'Famine photograph' 2
> To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
>
>
> It has been pointed out to me that the 'Famine photograph' appears
captioned
> 'A starving Irish family from Carraroe, County Galway, during the
Famine. Source: National
> Library of Ireland.'
> on Interpreting The Irish Famine, 1846-1850
> http://www.people.Virginia.EDU/~eas5e/Irish/Famine.html
> a Web site maintained by Liz Szabo.
>
> It has been suggested that the Mining site took the image from
there, because another
> photograph on the Mining site also appears on Liz's Szabo's site.
>
> It has also been pointed out to me that the photograph appears on
Thomas Archdeacon's
> site, but without any source.
>
> The image does appear - as Marion says - on p 28 of Miller & Wagner,
captioned
> 'Sickness and Starvation, Carraroe, County Galway'. And the source
is given as National
> Library of Ireland. The sources in this book seem to distinguish
between 'Lawrence
> Collection, National Library of Ireland' and simply 'National
Library of Ireland'. So
> that this does not seem to be a Lawrence collection image.
>
> The photograph does look posed. With a reassuringly plump baby. (I
don't really want to
> see pictures of starving babies - but you take my point...) The
photograph, of course,
> cannot be a picture of an Irish family during the great Famine - the
technology is simply
> wrong. I suppose what worries me is this distortion of the time
lines (as they say in
> Star Trek)...
>
> I have listed, in a separate message to Ir-D, some general points
about photography and
> Irish Studies/Irish Diaspora Studies.
>
> P.O'S.
>
>
> --
> Patrick O'Sullivan
> Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit
>
> Email Patrick O'Sullivan
> Email Patrick O'Sullivan
>
> Irish-Diaspora list
> Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/
>
> Personal Fax National 0870 284 1580
> Fax International +44 870 284 1580
>
> Irish Diaspora Research Unit
> Department of Interdisciplinary Human Studies
> University of Bradford
> Bradford BD7 1DP
> Yorkshire
> England
>

From: Patrick Maume
Subject: Re: Ir-D Occupations

From: Patrick Maume
THere was shipbuilding in Dublin for much of the first half of the
C19 - if not later - & it was revived about the beginning o fthe
twentieth century, I don't know for how long.
There would also be a shipbuilding/ shipwright tradition in Cork in
the same period, though I don't know much about it. Albert Lewis,
grandfather of CS Lewis, was a Welshman who started shipbuilding in
Cork before he came to Belfast and founded the third shipyard, Lewis &
M'Ilwaine (absorbed by Workman & Clark after about 10 years, I think
around the 1870s).
Best wishes,
Patrick

On Sat 2 Sep 2000 07:15:00 +0000 irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk wrote:

> From:irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk> Date: Sat 2 Sep 2000 07:15:00
+0000
> Subject: Ir-D Occupations
> To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
>
>
> From: "Anthony McNicholas"
> Subject: Occupations of migrants
>
>
> I have been looking at lists of shareholders in Irish papers
published in
> England in the 1860s. For one paper, the Universal News, published
in
> London, there was a cluster of small shareholders who all worked in
the
> shipyards at Deptford. A list was produced once a year and sometimes
their
> occupation was listed as shipwrights and sometimes as labourers,
though they
> are the same people. Shipbuilding was not something I was aware the
Irish
> were associated with, apart from in the North East, of course, but
this was
> a Catholic paper. Another group worked in the customs house. Their
presence
> as shareholders is explained by one of their number being a director
of the
> company which owned the paper. Do people think that these are
examples of
> migrants gaining a foothold in a certain occupation or organisation
and then
> helping others to follow, or might there be some other explanation?
>
> On a different note, in reply to Kevin Kenny's query about Times
> editorials-I have a quote from a Times article saying much the same
thing,
> it was pretty much the general opinion of the time, but I have been
unable
> to find it. If I do I will send it to him. The Times index is on
CDrom, so
> he should be able to track it down that way without too much
difficulty.
>
> Anthony McNicholas

From: Patrick Maume
Subject: Re: Ir-D 'Famine photograph' 4

From: Patrick Maume
THe half-tone process for reproducing photos didn't come in until
the first decade of the C20, so a lot of newspaper illustrations in
the 1890s/early 1900s are woodblocks drawn from photos. Could this go
further back? Perhaps some famine photos survive in this second-hand
form - or was the early process too cumbersome to be used in this way?
Best wishes,
Patrick


On Tue 5 Sep 2000 07:46:00 +0000 irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk wrote:

> From:irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk> Date: Tue 5 Sep 2000 07:46:00
+0000
> Subject: Ir-D 'Famine photograph' 4
> To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
>
>
> From: Peter Gray
> Subject: 'Famine photograph'
>
> I'm not aware of any photographs relating to the Great
> Famine, but there is a famous photograph of William Smith
> O'Brien and T.F. Meagher in prison taken in 1848 -
> reproduced and discussed in Myrtle Hill and Vivienne
> Pollock, 'Images of the past: photographs as historical
> evidence', *History Ireland* 2/1 (1994). The authors note
> (and this fits with Marion's posting) that because of
> reproductive difficulties demand for this image was
> later met by restaging the tableau with actors.
>
> The 'Famine' image in question is almost certainly from the
> 1890s. In style and quality it is very similar to the
> better known image 'Children, Garumna Island, whose father
> is on the relief works, 1895' (reproduced in S.J. Campbell,
> *The Great Irish Famine* and in the Strokestown exhibition.
> Garumna is very close to Carraroe. This seems to have been
> part of a genre of 'distress' photographs, presumably made
> and reproduced to exite charitable concern during the last
> serious subsistence crisis in the west (Oxfam do the same
> today).
>
> ----------------------
> Peter Gray
> Department of History
> University of Southampton, UK
> pg2[at]soton.ac.uk
>
> 'Victoria's Ireland?' Conference
> Society for the Study of 19th Century Ireland
> University of Southampton, 20-22 April 2001
> http://www.soton.ac.uk/~pg2/SSNCI2001.htm
>

This item appeared in the Irish Times of Saturday, September 9, 2000


New Ireland needs to
hear from its expatriates


By Paul Gillespie

WORLD VIEW: At the launch this week of his book on the
Irish abroad, Tim Pat Coogan dwelt on their diversity, talent
and many achievements, as well as on their historical and
contemporary misfortunes. The relationship with Ireland is
uneven, often stronger from their direction than ours.

In recognition of the need to cultivate that relationship to
mutual
benefit, he invited the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Mr Cowen,
who launched the book, to appoint a junior minister with
responsibility for the Irish abroad.

Embassies and consulates are already geared to cater for their
interests and welfare. But it is good to have the issue raised in
a
political context - especially so, given the great reluctance of
official Ireland over the years to consider giving political or
institutional representation here to the Irish abroad.

That will be more difficult to sustain following the commitment
in the amended Article 2 of the Constitution, which states:
"Furthermore, the Irish nation cherishes its special affinity
with
people of Irish ancestry living abroad who share its cultural
identity and heritage."

The Government has referred the issue of Oireachtas
representation for citizens in Northern Ireland and overseas to
the all-party Committee on the Constitution. The committee is
expected to publish a report on the matter later this year and
has been receiving submissions from interested parties. It is to
be hoped the issue is not sidelined by other more controversial
ones, including electoral reform and abortion.

Irish citizenship is available to those born in the island of
Ireland, their children born abroad and, in some cases, their
children and grandchildren. There are an estimated three million
Irish citizens living outside the island, about 1.2 million of
them
having been born here.

Most of them are in Britain and the US and most of the
remainder in English-speaking Commonwealth countries. An
estimated 40,000 are in EU states other than the UK.
Estimates of those with Irish ancestry range as high as 70
million.

Through the 1990s there was a sea-change in attitudes
towards the Irish abroad. Gradually the term diaspora was
accepted to describe them, as awareness grew that this is a
tremendous resource in an era of globalisation. It provides a
bridge between the local, national and global; it multiplies
international influence, and it opens up channels of
communications and economic contacts not available to other
small states.

All this is recognised internationally - not least by large
states
such as China with a very significant diaspora of its own. But
compared to other European states Ireland has been slow to
realise the benefits of developing political or institutional
relations with its citizens and those of Irish ancestry abroad.

Attitudes towards representing them in the Oireachtas have
been overwhelmingly negative, for three main reasons. The first
goes back to John Locke, who insisted that the right to vote
and the duty of paying taxes are directly connected. Such a
large number of citizens abroad might upset election outcomes
in a closely contested STV system of proportional
representation. And there was an additional fear that highly
motivated expatriate republican groups would vote
disproportionately, distorting results and complicating
coalitions.

The resulting political impasse stopped consideration of reform
dead in its tracks, despite the increasingly positive public
rhetoric heard from Presidents Robinson and McAleese. It
also tended to rule out consideration of other means of
representing expatriates in the Irish political system, which
could supplement their possible representation in the
Oireachtas.

This is dangerously shortsighted. Comparative evidence
suggests strongly that such relationships can wither if not
channelled and expressed institutionally. It is insufficient to
leave the cherishing of that special affinity solely to voluntary
groups. The Belfast Agreement, as an increasingly influential
example of political innovation across political boundaries,
surely invites further consideration of how links between
Ireland and its expatriates might be developed.

A study by the Council of Europe of links between Europeans
living abroad and their countries of origin distinguished between
three groups of state policies on emigration. Available at
http://stars.coe.fr/doc/doc99/ edoc8339.htm

A "national outreach" or "proactive" group has established legal
frameworks to protect expatriate rights. Mainly a
Mediterranean phenomenon, it includes Spain, Italy, Portugal,
France, Cyprus, San Marino, Greece and Turkey. Recently,
Switzerland and especially the newly independent countries of
central and eastern Europe joined this group.

A second laissez-faire group, mainly northern European
(Denmark, Finland, Sweden, Norway, the Netherlands,
Germany and the UK) has had long-standing traditions of
emigration and gives their expatriates few rights. The third
group, Ireland and Austria, is in transition from laissez-faire
to
outreach policies.

Most of the outreach group have set up representative
institutions for their expatriate communities. Typically they are
called Councils of the Greeks/ Portuguese/ Italians/ French/
Spanish abroad.

They have assemblies which meet regularly, select executives
and have budgets allowing them to pursue welfare, education,
taxation, cultural, economic policies and political
communication with their home countries.

Normally these budgets come under departments of foreign
affairs, with ministerial and official responsibilities well
defined.
An EU study this week showed Ireland much the least well
represented country diplomatically among the 15
member-states. The writer Albert Hirschman has made a
famous distinction between exit, voice and loyalty policies.
Ireland has followed an exit policy for so long, based on the
assumption that expatriate loyalty can be maintained only by a
distant nationalist rhetoric.

That no longer applies. If a civic patriotism and a more equal
relationship are to be developed it would be as well to examine
new structures carefully. We certainly need to hear about the
experience of the Irish abroad in economic development and in
anti-racism and multi-cultural affairs, to name only two pressing
preoccupations of the new Ireland.

pgillespie[at]irish-times.ie

Tim Pat Coogan, Wherever Green is Worn, The Story of the
Irish Diaspora. London: Hutchinson.


- --
Patrick O'Sullivan
Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit

Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Email Patrick O'Sullivan

Irish-Diaspora list
Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/

Personal Fax National 0870 284 1580
Fax International +44 870 284 1580

Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Department of Interdisciplinary Human Studies
University of Bradford
Bradford BD7 1DP
Yorkshire
England

From Patrick O'Sullivan

The following message reached me, yesterday - quite unsolicited - forwarded from one of
his friends by a playwrighting contact...

P.O'S.

QUOTE BEGINS
"Did you see the Irish Empire programme yesterday?
Brilliant. I thought the BBC had given up on ever
producing an intelligent documentary and went in
for tabloid shock-horror sentimentality or the fronting
of some wannabe screen star. This was a story of
unrivalled complexity told, as all stories should be,
in many voices, from many angles."
QUOTE ENDS

- --
Patrick O'Sullivan
Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit

Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Email Patrick O'Sullivan

Irish-Diaspora list
Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/

Personal Fax National 0870 284 1580
Fax International +44 870 284 1580

Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Department of Interdisciplinary Human Studies
University of Bradford
Bradford BD7 1DP
Yorkshire
England

From Patrick O'Sullivan

Those interested in the autobiographies of the Irish in Britain will find at least a
footnote's worth of interest - and probably more - in an entertaining volume, Kenneth
Branagh, Beginning, Chatto & Windus, London, 1989. Which I found in a secondhand book
shop... A good read, made me laugh...

Branagh, a very fine and ambitious actor, who uses commercial ventures to subsidise his
other work, wrote the autobiography to secure funds to pay for his theatre company's
offices. But he is, in any case, entitled to a little arrogance.

Most autobiographies are written by deluded old men to confuse historians - so that this
autobiography, by a young man, recalling his not so distant childhood and youth, is
different. It is also an Irish Diaspora Studies volume, for Branagh explores his family's
move - following his father's work - from Belfast, in Northern Ireland, to Reading, an
industrial and commercial town to the west of London.

So, it is the little Irish boy settling in England - strategies, accents... Branagh's
brother changed HIS accent at once... 'like having a new member of the family...' 'The
early 1970s were not a good time to be Irish in Reading...'

Matters of accent are, of course, crucial in the acting profession, especially in England.
And Branagh has to be cold-bloodedly in control of the sounds that emanate from his own
mouth...

In a recent newspaper article Branagh described an encounter with the hero, George Best -
who criticised Branagh's accent. And I do notice that - since this volume was written -
when Branagh visits Northern Ireland enough of the Belfast accent becomes visible, becomes
audible, to make a point...

P.O'S.

- --
Patrick O'Sullivan
Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit

Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Email Patrick O'Sullivan

Irish-Diaspora list
Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/

Personal Fax National 0870 284 1580
Fax International +44 870 284 1580

Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Department of Interdisciplinary Human Studies
University of Bradford
Bradford BD7 1DP
Yorkshire
England

Dan Cassidy has kindly forwarded this message - below - which appeared on the H-ALBION
list...

Dan Cassidy's own reply follows, as message Ir-D 'Englishness'/'Whiteness' 2



- -----Original Message-----
From: DanCas1[at]aol.com

Patrick:

Thought this query interesting. my inchoate reply follows.

Daniel Cassidy
New College of California
San Francisco

Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 12:12:25 -0700
Reply-To: H-Net List for British and Irish History
Sender: H-Net List for British and Irish History
From: "Terry L. Taylor"
Organization: Shoreline Community College, Seattle, WA
Subject: E.P. Thompson's formations of Englishness
To: H-ALBION[at]H-NET.MSU.EDU
Message-ID:
X-Mailer: Unknown

Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 18:28:50 GMT
From: "Paris Papamichos"

I am currently exploring the complex relations between nation, class and
historical narration through a textual (and contextual) analysis of E. P.
Thompson's "Making of the English Working Class". My overall aim is to
consider whether one can persuasively speak of the thompsonian
conceptualisation of class and class formation as not only gendered (as
feminist historical scholarship has successively shown), but also as
nation-specific in the double sense of it sustaining a particular sense of
national belonging and of being in difficulty when attempting to incorporate
the experience of an ethnic other. In particular, I am approaching three
complementary aspects of this issue:
a) the ways E.P. Thompson's narrative furnishes not only an account of the
formation of the working class in England, but also latently constitutes an
attempt to retell the story of the english nation from a people's point of
view. In addition, I consider the place his view of the english nation
occupies within the broader intellectual and political climate of his
period, especially that of the (communist) left (late 1950s-early 1960s).
b) the historical relation between popular radicalism and patriotism, and
the possible historical interactions between the language of class and the
language of nation in the period under study (ca.1780-1830).
c) the ways the textual treatment of the irish immigrants in his work can
serve as a vantage point for assessing whether an exclusive, englisised
perception of the working-class subject is actually projected.
Any references and comments would help.

Yours sincerely,
Paris Papamichos-Chronakis

From: DanCas1[at]aol.com

A Chara:

Re: Thompson's formations of Englishness and the "Americanist's" formations
of Whiteness.


One long-standing critique by some scholars of E.P. of Thompson's "History of
the English Working Class" is his treatment of the Irish "other." Most
recently, Anthony Gronowicz, "Race and Class Politics In NYC Before the Civil
War," (Northeastern Univ. Press, Boston, 1998.) P. 263-264:

"Methodologically, Thompson tacks the Irish onto his ebullient romantic
depiction of the English working class. One could perhaps object, given the
title of his work, that this was not Thompson's concern. Including the Irish
would have markedly diminished his case because he would have been forced to
reveal how English labor acquiesced in the imperial racism of the empire.
Thompson does admit that 'one ingredient in the new working class community
has necessarily evaded this analysis: the Irish immigration.' He does note
that 'the disasters which afflicted Ireland came less from the potato-blight
than from the aftereffects of a counterrevolution following upon the
merciless repression of the United Irishmen's rebellion (1798) far more
savage than anything enacted in England; and from the political, economic,
and social consequences of the Act of Union (1800).' (p. 429, Thompson) Yet
he does not consider the English worker's reaction or their active
participation in this effort."

Gronowicz praises what he characterizes as Craig Calhoun's skillful challenge
of "Thompson's assumptions regarding the alleged radicalism of the English
working class in his "Question of Class Struggle."

Gronowicz also critiques Sean Wilentz's "Chants Democratic" as "minimiz{ing}
the issue of race and the unskilled worker, in much the same manner that
Thompson skirted the Irish question." p. 263

On the not unrelated so-called "whiteness debate," Mr. Gronowicz also faults
the approach of Theodore Allen in "The Invention of the White race,vol.1,
Racial Oppression and Social Control" (London, Verso, 1994) asserting that in
examining the racism of the native American "white" working-class and the
Irish, Allen "ignores the strategic as well as economic links that existed
between the NYC Democratic Party political leaders and merchants, on one
hand, and Southern politicians and plantation owners on the other. The active
presence of such ties greatly aggravated racial tensions and helped transform
many Irish immigrants into racists." He asserts that while there is "ample
discussion of Archbishop Hughes, nothing is written about Mike Walsh, Ely
Moore, or Fernando Wood's Mozart Hall." Or the Rothschild's man in NYC,
August Belmont.

Gronowicz (p. 248) asserts that Allen does "not integrate politics into his
analysis, he does not appreciate how white [read English] labor...was made to
feel that Blacks [read Irish] were the chief threat to their jobs, even
though, as Allen correctly points out [&Thompson regarding the irish vs.
English workers] that in most job categories, foreign-born whites vastly
outnumbered blacks [as English vastly outnumbered Irish] (Allen, p. 193).
[Allen] therefore perceives Irish-American hostility to black competition as
having 'no basis in fact.' Yet the ideology of white supremacist democratic
republicanism did color the facts and energized racists to new frenzies of
hatred." As did the ideology of English racist democratic republicanism whip
up fanatical anti-Irish violence and xenophobia.

Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.

Slan,

Daniel Cassidy
San Francisco

Daniel Cassidy


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Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 12:12:25 -0700
Reply-To: H-Net List for British and Irish History
Sender: H-Net List for British and Irish History
From: "Terry L. Taylor"
Organization: Shoreline Community College, Seattle, WA
Subject: E.P. Thompson's formations of Englishness
To: H-ALBION[at]H-NET.MSU.EDU
Message-ID:
X-Mailer: Unknown

Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 18:28:50 GMT
From: "Paris Papamichos"

I am currently exploring the complex relations between nation, class and
historical narration through a textual (and contextual) analysis of E. P.
Thompson's "Making of the English Working Class". My overall aim is to
consider whether one can persuasively speak of the thompsonian
conceptualisation of class and class formation as not only gendered (as
feminist historical scholarship has successively shown), but also as
nation-specific in the double sense of it sustaining a particular sense of
national belonging and of being in difficulty when attempting to incorporate
the experience of an ethnic other. In particular, I am approaching three
complementary aspects of this issue:
a) the ways E.P. Thompson's narrative furnishes not only an account of the
formation of the working class in England, but also latently constitutes an
attempt to retell the story of the english nation from a people's point of
view. In addition, I consider the place his view of the english nation
occupies within the broader intellectual and political climate of his
period, especially that of the (communist) left (late 1950s-early 1960s).
b) the historical relation between popular radicalism and patriotism, and
the possible historical interactions between the language of class and the
language of nation in the period under study (ca.1780-1830).
c) the ways the textual treatment of the irish immigrants in his work can
serve as a vantage point for assessing whether an exclusive, englisised
perception of the working-class subject is actually projected.
Any references and comments would help.

Yours sincerely,
Paris Papamichos-Chronakis

- --part2_34.a43a006.26edda80_boundary--

- --part1_34.a43a006.26ede0e8_boundary--

From Patrick O'Sullivan

Forwarded on behalf of the Keegan Theatre, Washington DC

The Keegan Theatre is "an internationally acclaimed professional theatre company in the
Washington DC area" and is seeking plays of any length or subject matter for readings and
possible production in their Shanachie Project playwrights' festival in March/April 2001.
It is especially interested in plays with an Irish edge - though this is not required -
and it particularly wants work demonstrating lyricism of language and a raw edge: comedy,
drama, realistic or absurd. Submissions to The Keegan Theatre, PO Box 17407, Arlington, VA
22216, USA, or via email to Associate Artistic Director Eric Lucas at
ericlucas[at]starpower.net (to whom questions should also be emailed).


- --
Patrick O'Sullivan
Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit

Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Email Patrick O'Sullivan

Irish-Diaspora list
Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/

Personal Fax National 0870 284 1580
Fax International +44 870 284 1580

Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Department of Interdisciplinary Human Studies
University of Bradford
Bradford BD7 1DP
Yorkshire
England

I feel obliged to forward this commercial message, below - since I think it might be of
interest and use...

P.O'S.


- -----Original Message-----
From: Pat Clarke
To: "'irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk'"
Subject: A Chara, please use our site to make free calls to any phone in Ireland/the world

Hi,

Please check out our site www.4ecalls.com & if you find it worthwhile,
please inform your members/links.

We are making it possible to call any phone in the world for free in
recognition of Ireland's participation in the Millennium Olympics.

Go raibh maith agut,

Pat Clarke

From: "alex peach"
Subject: Re: Ir-D 'Irish Empire'

I enjoyed the programme too, very interesting and pleasing on the eye with
good content. It was also nice to see some familiar faces and put a likeness
to some of the contributors to the Ir-D list. One thing though, I have not seen
a critical review of it anywhere in the British media before transmission.
On the day it was broadcast here the "quality" liberal rag The Guardian
reviewed a documentary about the recent Concorde tragedy, another about
alcohol in Russia and the allegedly unmissible "100 Great TV Moments From
Hell". I have seen no trailers on BBC 2 for the series (this is something
that the second public channel is noted for usually, lots of heavy preview
rotation in the weeks leading up to a new production). I do not read
everything though so perhaps someone has seen a review? Could it be that
there is a subliminal anti-Irish discourse working in the British media? I
will scan today's papers for any reviews.


Best wishes to all,

Alex Peach

Dept. of Historical and International Studies
DeMontfort University
Leicester
Uk

- -----Original Message-----
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Date: 11 September 2000 11:12
Subject: Ir-D 'Irish Empire'


>
>From Patrick O'Sullivan
>
>The following message reached me, yesterday - quite unsolicited - forwarded
from one of
>his friends by a playwrighting contact...
>
>P.O'S.
>
>QUOTE BEGINS
>"Did you see the Irish Empire programme yesterday?
>Brilliant. I thought the BBC had given up on ever
>producing an intelligent documentary and went in
>for tabloid shock-horror sentimentality or the fronting
>of some wannabe screen star. This was a story of
>unrivalled complexity told, as all stories should be,
>in many voices, from many angles."
>QUOTE ENDS
>
>--
>Patrick O'Sullivan
>Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit
>
>Email Patrick O'Sullivan
>Email Patrick O'Sullivan
>
>Irish-Diaspora list
>Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/
>
>Personal Fax National 0870 284 1580
>Fax International +44 870 284 1580
>
>Irish Diaspora Research Unit
>Department of Interdisciplinary Human Studies
>University of Bradford
>Bradford BD7 1DP
>Yorkshire
>England
>
>

From: "alex peach"
Subject: Re: Ir-D Branagh, Beginning

The whole issue of accent is interesting to me as it is almost a given
within post-war British ethnic studies that the Irish have no phenotypical
markers such as skin colour to readily identify them as outsiders. This of
course is true in a physical sense, (although we could perhaps point to
anti-redhead discourses that would include other nationalities) but as soon
as an Irish migrant opened their mouth to engage with the host community
their outsider status would be immediately signalled. My own mother lost her
accent as soon as she could when she moved to the British Midlands in the
1950s (she still swears with a broad brogue when she is angry mind you!)
This subterfuge/strategy was utilised due to anti-Irish prejudice. Names
have also been changed as they too can function as cultural/ethnic markers.
But one thing the Irish can do is "pass" for native using this form of
ethnic suicide, leading to complex issues of hybrid identities. In this
sense the post-modernists are onto something. "Which hat are you wearing
today?" is a legitimate question to ask Irish migrants to English speaking
countries.

Best wishes,

Alex Peach.

- -----Original Message-----
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Date: 11 September 2000 11:12
Subject: Ir-D Branagh, Beginning


>
>From Patrick O'Sullivan
>
>Those interested in the autobiographies of the Irish in Britain will find
at least a
>footnote's worth of interest - and probably more - in an entertaining
volume, Kenneth
>Branagh, Beginning, Chatto & Windus, London, 1989. Which I found in a
secondhand book
>shop... A good read, made me laugh...
>
>Branagh, a very fine and ambitious actor, who uses commercial ventures to
subsidise his
>other work, wrote the autobiography to secure funds to pay for his theatre
company's
>offices. But he is, in any case, entitled to a little arrogance.
>
>Most autobiographies are written by deluded old men to confuse historians -
so that this
>autobiography, by a young man, recalling his not so distant childhood and
youth, is
>different. It is also an Irish Diaspora Studies volume, for Branagh
explores his family's
>move - following his father's work - from Belfast, in Northern Ireland, to
Reading, an
>industrial and commercial town to the west of London.
>
>So, it is the little Irish boy settling in England - strategies, accents...
Branagh's
>brother changed HIS accent at once... 'like having a new member of the
family...' 'The
>early 1970s were not a good time to be Irish in Reading...'
>
>Matters of accent are, of course, crucial in the acting profession,
especially in England.
>And Branagh has to be cold-bloodedly in control of the sounds that emanate
from his own
>mouth...
>
>In a recent newspaper article Branagh described an encounter with the hero,
George Best -
>who criticised Branagh's accent. And I do notice that - since this volume
was written -
>when Branagh visits Northern Ireland enough of the Belfast accent becomes
visible, becomes
>audible, to make a point...
>
>P.O'S.
>
>--
>Patrick O'Sullivan
>Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit
>
>Email Patrick O'Sullivan
>Email Patrick O'Sullivan
>
>Irish-Diaspora list
>Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/
>
>Personal Fax National 0870 284 1580
>Fax International +44 870 284 1580
>
>Irish Diaspora Research Unit
>Department of Interdisciplinary Human Studies
>University of Bradford
>Bradford BD7 1DP
>Yorkshire
>England
>
>

Forwarded for information...


From: Theresa Pfister

Hull-House as a Resource for Teaching U.S. and World History," a
conference to be held at the University of Illinois at Chicago (UIC)
September 22-23, 2000, focuses on immigration and women=92s international
networks built around peace and suffrage. This conference will assist K-12
and college instructors in teaching about these themes on international,
national, and local levels. Mornings will consist of a detailed
examination of topics; afternoons will emphasize the teaching of those
topics.=20

The conference is free and open to the public. All conference sessions take
place in 509-510 Chicago Circle Center, 750 South Halsted Street, UIC.
Hosted by the Hull-House Initiative, the conference is cosponsored by the
Department of History, the Gender and Women=92s Studies Program, and the
Center for Research on Women and Gender, UIC; and the World History
Association.

Accompanying the conference is an exhibit "Pots of Promise: Mexicans,
Reformers, and the Hull-House Kilns, 1920-1940," in the Ward Gallery, 2nd
floor, Chicago Circle Center, 750 South Halsted Street, UIC.

For details about the conference and the exhibit, consult the linkages off
the website for the Jane Addams Hull-House Museum ( Or phone the museum,
312-413-5353 and request a brochure).

Friday sessions on immigration and the Hull-House neighborhood feature:

Rudolph J. Vecoli (History, and the Immigration History Research Center,
University of Minnesota), "Hull-House and the World: Its Role in the Old and
the New Immigration History"

Suronda Gonzalez (History, SUNY Binghamton), "In Liberty's Shadow: The
Immigrants Protective League of Chicago and Admissions Cases, 1908-1924"

David Badillo (Office of Access and Equity, UIC), "Mexican Immigrants and
the 1920s Hull-House Community: Transnational Dimensions of Social and
Spatial Settlement"

Leon Fink (History, UIC), "Immigration in an Era of Globalization: What's
New and What's Not So New?"

Wendy Plotkin and Ellen Skerrett (Near West Side Website Project, UIC)
demonstrating the website as a teaching resource

Saturday sessions on women's international networks around peace and
suffrage feature:

Mineke Bosch (Centre for Gender and Diversity, Maastricht University, The
Netherlands), "Aletta Jacobs and Jane Addams at The Hague, 1915: A Happy
Mixture of Different Internationalisms"

Berenice A. Carroll (Women's Studies and Political Science, Purdue
University), "Jane Addams, the Critique of Militarized Society, and the
Theory of Positive Peace"

Mrinalini Sinha (History and Women's Studies, Pennsylvania State
University), "Re-Imagining Internationalism: The Women's Movement in India
in the Interwar Period"

Francesca Miller (History, University of California, Davis), "History,
Female Citizenship and Social Justice in the Americas"

Jessica Young (Oak Park River Forest High School, Oak Park, IL), Sandra
Ryder (Oak Forest High School, Oak Forest, IL), and Gwen Hoerr McNamee
(History, UIC) will present ideas for teaching about women's international
peace and suffrage activities

Many Irish-Diaspora list members will find this Web journal of interest.

Points of comparison...

P.O'S.


>From: From: Hitting Critical Mass

HITTING CRITICAL MASS: A JOURNAL OF ASIAN AMERICAN CULTURAL CRITICISM is
now on the World Wide Web. Access all issues of the journal hosted by the
Asian American Studies Program at the University of California, Berkeley.
The HCM Web site includes articles by Sau-Ling Cynthia Wong, Elaine H.
Kim, Viet Thanh Nguyen, and Grace Kyungwon Hong, and the special issue on
Filipino Studies edited by Oscar V. Campomanes.

Set your Web browser to and join
us!

Sincerely,
the HCM Webmaster


HITTING CRITICAL MASS: A JOURNAL OF ASIAN AMERICAN CULTURAL CRITICISM
E-Mail: critmass[at]socrates.berkeley.edu
URL: http://socrates.berkeley.edu/~critmass/

From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Dymphna=20Lonergan?=
Subject: Re: Ir-D Accent


Alex Peach mentioned his mother's 'brogue' which of
course is another word for 'accent'. Originally
applied to both Scots and Irish it became, I think,
exclusively applied to an Irish accent. Does any other
ethnic group have a single word that defines its
speech patterns? As for the origin of 'brogue' (to
digress) I'm now inclined to favour the'speech
impediment' definition and I think it may have been
the Irish deriding those who spoke English - not for
how they spoke it, but that they spoke such an
inferior language! eg Béarla 'English' but béarlagair
'slang'

Dymphna Lonergan
The Flinders University of South Australia
Dymphna_1[at]Yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

From: "Anthony McNicholas"
Subject: RE: Ir-D Accent

A dire warning from 1864 from a London-Irish nationalist paper to those who
change to make themselves accepted,

"They change their names, or mispronounce them; they copy English habits
into their households; their conversation abounds with Cockney
namby-pambyisms..." By this method "you obtain the credit of being polite
and undemonstrative. You are at once singled out from the 'ruck' as an Irish
gentleman whose political notions are far from being vulgar and whose
admiration for British institutions entitles him to universal respect."
Universal News 15/10/1864 p9

For these 'composite Irishmen', the paper warned, awaited a fate worse than
that which befell the bat, which was decreed neither bird nor beast.

And from the 1960s-a schoolfriend,(no, he was just in the same class, we
loathed each other actually)whose family was Polish, changed their name on
arrival in England, from the original Skepski. Being educated people, they
didn't fancy something plain like Smith or Brown, but chose a name which I
suppose they thought would have a ring to it to English ears, something
Anglo-Saxon. Unfortunately they chose Eggert for a handle and he was plagued
with terrible jokes about being boiled, fried, poached etc., and his
children, if he has any, probably still are. Unless, of course, he has
reverted to the Polish.

Anthony McNicholas

- -----Original Message-----
From: owner-irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
[mailto:owner-irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk]On Behalf Of
irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Sent: 12 September 2000 07:48
To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Ir-D Accent



From: "alex peach"
Subject: Re: Ir-D Branagh, Beginning

The whole issue of accent is interesting to me as it is almost a given
within post-war British ethnic studies that the Irish have no phenotypical
markers such as skin colour to readily identify them as outsiders. This of
course is true in a physical sense, (although we could perhaps point to
anti-redhead discourses that would include other nationalities) but as soon
as an Irish migrant opened their mouth to engage with the host community
their outsider status would be immediately signalled. My own mother lost her
accent as soon as she could when she moved to the British Midlands in the
1950s (she still swears with a broad brogue when she is angry mind you!)
This subterfuge/strategy was utilised due to anti-Irish prejudice. Names
have also been changed as they too can function as cultural/ethnic markers.
But one thing the Irish can do is "pass" for native using this form of
ethnic suicide, leading to complex issues of hybrid identities. In this
sense the post-modernists are onto something. "Which hat are you wearing
today?" is a legitimate question to ask Irish migrants to English speaking
countries.

Best wishes,

Alex Peach.

- -----Original Message-----
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Date: 11 September 2000 11:12
Subject: Ir-D Branagh, Beginning


>
>From Patrick O'Sullivan
>
>Those interested in the autobiographies of the Irish in Britain will find
at least a
>footnote's worth of interest - and probably more - in an entertaining
volume, Kenneth
>Branagh, Beginning, Chatto & Windus, London, 1989. Which I found in a
secondhand book
>shop... A good read, made me laugh...
>
>Branagh, a very fine and ambitious actor, who uses commercial ventures to
subsidise his
>other work, wrote the autobiography to secure funds to pay for his theatre
company's
>offices. But he is, in any case, entitled to a little arrogance.
>
>Most autobiographies are written by deluded old men to confuse historians -
so that this
>autobiography, by a young man, recalling his not so distant childhood and
youth, is
>different. It is also an Irish Diaspora Studies volume, for Branagh
explores his family's
>move - following his father's work - from Belfast, in Northern Ireland, to
Reading, an
>industrial and commercial town to the west of London.
>
>So, it is the little Irish boy settling in England - strategies, accents...
Branagh's
>brother changed HIS accent at once... 'like having a new member of the
family...' 'The
>early 1970s were not a good time to be Irish in Reading...'
>
>Matters of accent are, of course, crucial in the acting profession,
especially in England.
>And Branagh has to be cold-bloodedly in control of the sounds that emanate
from his own
>mouth...
>
>In a recent newspaper article Branagh described an encounter with the hero,
George Best -
>who criticised Branagh's accent. And I do notice that - since this volume
was written -
>when Branagh visits Northern Ireland enough of the Belfast accent becomes
visible, becomes
>audible, to make a point...
>
>P.O'S.
>

From: "Bruce Stewart"
Subject: Re: Ir-D Accent 2

That sounds improbable and convoluted, if amusingly turned. More
likely, since a 'brog' is a shoe in Irish and Irish shoes in the 17th c.
were noted by colonists for their uncouth appearance, the part
served for the whole (litotes). An added factor is the comparatively
rhotive character of the Irish accent as it strikes the English ear.
What is true of Irish is broadly true of Scottish speakers. The
modern brogue is a country shoe sported by English gentlemen in
emulation of their gillies - from whom, incidentally, they received
the useful word 'smashing', orig. as 'is maith sin'. Brogue still
seems a reasonable description of the general features of an
Hiberno-English accent though, like all such terms, it cannot be
freely used in view of stereotypical associations. The challenge for
the phonologist is to say in what way ALL Irish speakers differ from
ALL English speakers. The sum of that equation is the Brogue.
Bruce.


Subject: Ir-D Accent 2
Date sent: Tue 12 Sep 2000 14:00:00 +0000
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Send reply to: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk


From: =?iso-8859-1?q?Dymphna=20Lonergan?=
Subject: Re: Ir-D Accent


Alex Peach mentioned his mother's 'brogue' which of
course is another word for 'accent'. Originally
applied to both Scots and Irish it became, I think,
exclusively applied to an Irish accent. Does any other
ethnic group have a single word that defines its
speech patterns? As for the origin of 'brogue' (to
digress) I'm now inclined to favour the'speech
impediment' definition and I think it may have been
the Irish deriding those who spoke English - not for
how they spoke it, but that they spoke such an
inferior language! eg Béarla 'English' but béarlagair
'slang'

Dymphna Lonergan
The Flinders University of South Australia
Dymphna_1[at]Yahoo.com

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
http://mail.yahoo.com/

bsg.stewart[at]ulst.ac.uk
Languages & Lit/English
University of Ulster
tel (44) 01265 32 4355
fax (44) 01265 32 4963

From: Cymru66[at]aol.com
Subject: Re: Ir-D Accent 2

For what it's worth, when an African-American friend from California was
speaking of her experiences on a recent visit to Britain she expressed
surprise at hearing West Indian Brits speaking in the 'brogue' i.e. a North
London accent.
Do not ask me what the underlying assumptions are about what the speech
patterns should be of 'people of colour'. As far as the Irish are concerned,
my experience has been that the variety of accents is dense and rich and
highly confusing. But the same may be said of the 'English' accents between
and within the many regions of the U.K.
I'm sure that this comment has been of little help. I have great respect
for linguisticians but do not regret having chosen another discipline.
John Hickey

From: Cymru66[at]aol.com
Subject: Concerns

Dear Paddy,
Like Frank Neal I teach in a graduate school of Business here.
It's been an interesting experience after 11 years in the
Soc. and Anthrop. dept at the University of Ulster, Coleraine. One of the
things I've learned are the practices and malpractices of marketers. So, I
was a little concerned to see the advert for 'free' telephone calls the other
day. Such offers are a classic means of getting access to mailing or emailing
lists, particularly when such lists are of relatively affluent people who may
be in a position to 'spread the word'. This offer may be perfectly genuine,
but I do not doubt it will contain a number of conditions and commitments
from which the marketer will get sufficient profit to cover his costs and
much more and any respondents will find themselves locked into some long-term
commitment to buy certain services. I think caution is indicated here.
I am once again getting uneasy at the use of the term 'racism' when applied
to the Irish. When I was writing my book on Northern Ireland I investigated
the use of a racist model, this time involving Protestants as dominant and
Catholics as subordinate. I quickly abandoned the model, as have a number of
other scholars in the same field, because it does not 'fit' if by 'racist'
we are taking the structure of relationships between African-Americans and
'White' people here in the U.S. That there is/was prejudice and hostility
towards Irish people living in Britain there is no doubt - who has not
experienced it, even after 3-4 generations. But there is a strong religious
element involved here which makes the phenomenon rather more complex than the
relatively straightforward hostility between white and black in the U.S.
which is, probably correctly, called 'racism'. So, I am looking for some
different and more precise set of concepts to help analyse the process of
current relationships between the 'host' population of Britain and the
Immigrant Irish. Just using 'racism' could lead us into blind alleys and
cause us to miss very important phenomena which may be either encouraging or
denying integration of the Irish and their descendants.
I leave it to you to judge whether any of the above should be circulated.

Best,
John Hickey.

From Patrick O'Sullivan


My thanks to John Hickey for sharing his concerns...

On the phones thing... I was doubtful about forwarding this message to the Ir-D list.
But again and again I hear, from throughout the Irish Diaspora, complaints about the costs
of phoning Ireland. And similar complaints are heard from every diaspora and scattered
community. But John is right, and people should be cautious.

All these things are a matter of fine judgement. We get tons of stuff, many different
kinds of commercial message - and we have to filter it. For example, I assume we would
like to know about new books and research resources. I have just had a sequence of
messages from a group who - after enquiry - turned out to be Connolly Association
activists. If they had told me that in the first place I would have known where we stood.
And SOME of their messages are of interest to us, and I will circulate them.

The 'racism' debate rumbles along always, throughout the Irish Diaspora, and throughout
Irish Diaspora Studies. I have my own views - but it is not my place to impose my views
on the Ir-D list.

P.O'S.

- --
Patrick O'Sullivan
Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit

Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Email Patrick O'Sullivan

Irish-Diaspora list
Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/

Personal Fax National 0870 284 1580
Fax International +44 870 284 1580

Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Department of Interdisciplinary Human Studies
University of Bradford
Bradford BD7 1DP
Yorkshire
England