Untitled   idslist.friendsov.com   13465 records.
   Search for
1501  
30 October 2000 07:39  
  
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 07:39:00 +0000 Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk Sender: From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk Subject: Ir-D Ignatiev MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <1312884591.E4E0d04A1031.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk> [IR-DLOG0010.txt]
  
Ir-D Ignatiev
  
Irish-Diaspora list member John Hickey has a query about

Noel Ignatiev, How the Irish Became White.
New York & London: Routledge, Chapman & Hall, September 1995.
ISBN: 0-415-91384-5

"An African-American colleague of my wife's has mentioned the book. He has a very
interesting interpretation of its argument i.e. how Irish immigrants to the
U.S. learned how to become part of the 'oppressor' group here."

John Hickey wonders how the debate has developed since the book's publication.

We discussed Ignatiev's book on the Ir-D list early last year...

Some Web references that I found then included...

1.
Noel Ignatiev's own comments can be found at
http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~dnd/issues/302/thenew.html
The New Abolitionism
By Noel Ignatiev
'Race is a biological fiction...'

2.
There is a review of The book at
http://www.afn.org/~dks/race/wald-ignatiev.html
This review appeared in The Boston Globe, November 7, 1995
"The Irish, the Blacks and the Struggle with Racism,"
by Elijah Wald, Globe Correspondent
1995 The Boston Globe
[I posted this review as a separate item to the Irish-Diaspora list.]

3.
There is a personal response to the book at
http://www.commonb.com/issue3/words/irish/index.html
a review written by Regina Raiford

I have listed here only the Web addresses/sites that still work...

Generally my impression is that Ignatiev has been absorbed into the
discussion of 'whiteness' in the United States - usually coupled with
David Roediger, The Wages of Whiteness, 1991. See for example Henry A
Giroux, 'Rewriting the discourse of racial identity: Towards a pedagogy
and politics of whiteness', Harvard Educational Review, Summer 1997
ISSN: 0017-8055; Vol. 67 No. 2; p. 285

Any more up to date thoughts or references?

P.O'S.
 TOP
1502  
30 October 2000 07:49  
  
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 07:49:00 +0000 Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk Sender: From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk Subject: Ir-D The Mulligan Guard MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <1312884591.D8ad1025.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk> [IR-DLOG0010.txt]
  
Ir-D The Mulligan Guard
  
DanCas1@aol.com
  
From: DanCas1[at]aol.com
Subject: Re: 'Garryowen' & The Mulligan Guard


Garryowen
& Harrigan's The Mulligan Guard

The play and the theme song, "The Mulligan Guard," with book and lyrics by
prolific comedic playwright Edward "Ned" Harrigan (1845-1911), and music by
his father-in-law David Braham (1838-1905), was written in 1873 and was one
of the megahits of the musical comedy stage of the late nineteenth century.
Harrigan was part of a NYC-based vaudeville team with Tony Hart (1855-1891).
Their revues and Harrigan's plays are arguably the Ur-texts of the modern
American Musical. His daughter Nedda Harrigan married the seminal Broadway
producer Josh Logan in the 1920s.

The Mulligan Guard's smashing success spawned a whole series of Mulligan
plays by Ned Harrigan, and I believe the song is even mentioned in Kipling's
Kim; it was reputedly a popular marching song for British troops in India and
elsewhere.

It was also a particular favorite of the New York Irish, including luminaries
like "Famine" immigrant gang leader, shoulder hitter, and Tammany Ard Ri,
Richard Croker, and NY's Irish Catholic Governor and the 1928 Democratic
Presidential nominee, Al Smith, who remained an avid Harriganophile to the
end of his life. With the emergence of Harrigan, the American Irish learn to
laugh at themselves (as well as the "other") with a palpable sense of self
confidence.

The Mulligan Guards' march "From Sligo Ward below," and then from Baxter
Street to Avenue A, takes them through the oldest Irish wards of lower
Manhattan, the 2nd, 4th, Bloody Ould 6th, 14th, and beyond to Avenue A and
Tompkins Square Park, site of the bread and unemployment riots of the 1850s,
and the early communist and labor meetings of the 1870s. Now, what is the
relevance to Garryowen? See lyrics below.

The tune and tempo of "The Mulligan Guard" is catchy, comedically martial,
and quite stirring. It is obvious that Garryowen, which is the first of the
only two songs referred to in the lyric, is an anthem of some resonance to
the Irish Americans of those turbulent, but not totally unhumorous, times.

The Mulligan Guard
by Edward Harrigan and David Braham
(1873)

We crave your condescension.
We'll tell you what we know
Of marching in the Mulligan Guard
>From Sligo Ward below.
Our Captain's name was Hussey,
A Tipperary man,
He carried his sword like a Russian duke
whene'er he took command
(chorus)
We shoulder'd guns and march'd and march'd away,
from Baxter Street we march'd to Avenue A,
with drum and fife how sweetly they did play,
We march'd march'd march'd in the Mulligan Guard.

When the band played GARRYOWEN,
Or the Connamara Pet;
with a rub a dub dub, we'd march in the mud,
To the military step.
With the green above the red, boys,
To show where we come from,
Our guns we'd lift with the right shoulder shift,
As we'd march to the bate of the drum.

(Chorus)

When we got home at night, boys,
The divil a bite we'd ate,
we'd all set up and drink a sup
Of whiskey strong and nate.
Then we'd all march home together,
as slippery as lard,
The solid min would all fall in,
And march with the Mulligan Guard!

(Forward March!)

Chorus and out...)

Of course, there is also some "kidding on the square" embodied in the song.
In 1873, when it was penned, John Devoy, O'Donovan Rossa and other
nationalist minded Irish and Irish Americans, many of them living, working,
marching, and plotting in the very neighborhoods mentioned in the lyric, were
already planning some slightly more serious unmusical martial endeavors
(involving guns, dynamite, and even a submarine) under the banner of Clann na
Gael in Rossa's 6th Ward Hotel and wherever one might find the solitary
Devoy.



Daniel Cassidy
New College of California
San Francisco
 TOP
1503  
30 October 2000 07:59  
  
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 07:59:00 +0000 Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk Sender: From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk Subject: Ir-D 'Jack-Catholic' MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <1312884591.ABb01024.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk> [IR-DLOG0010.txt]
  
Ir-D 'Jack-Catholic'
  
New York... Irish-Diaspora list member Marion Casey
  
From New York... Irish-Diaspora list member Marion Casey
asks...

"Dan,

What is a "jack-Catholic"? I never heard that term before."

After enquiry, I find that 'Jack-Catholic' is a Danny Cassidy coinage, from the American
slang term Jack-Mormon (a Mormon who
adheres only minimally or not at all to the orthodoxies of the faith).

Maybe the coinage does fill a long-felt need...

P.O'S.
 TOP
1504  
30 October 2000 09:39  
  
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:39:00 +0000 Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk Sender: From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk Subject: Ir-D Ignatiev 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <1312884591.ADef071032.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk> [IR-DLOG0010.txt]
  
Ir-D Ignatiev 2
  
The following Web sites might be of interest...

http://zmag.org/Zmag/articles/jan97postel.htm

http://lilt.ilstu.edu/gmklass/pos334/archive/ignatiev.htm


- --
Patrick O'Sullivan
Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit

Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Email Patrick O'Sullivan

Irish-Diaspora list
Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/

Personal Fax National 0870 284 1580
Fax International +44 870 284 1580

Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Department of Interdisciplinary Human Studies
University of Bradford
Bradford BD7 1DP
Yorkshire
England
 TOP
1505  
30 October 2000 11:39  
  
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:39:00 +0000 Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk Sender: From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk Subject: Ir-D Schonste der Schonen in Erin MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <1312884591.3CC041033.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk> [IR-DLOG0010.txt]
  
Ir-D Schonste der Schonen in Erin
  
Email Patrick O'Sullivan
  
From Email Patrick O'Sullivan

My thanks to all those who offered sympathy and advice, as I recovered from flu. I have,
of course, followed all the advice, to the letter - and you must imagine me, sitting here,
in a miasma of herbs, garlic, whiskey and chicken soup...

Recovering from flu involves exploration of the farther shores of melancholia. So, at the
weekend, to the record shop for more Brahms and Stacy Kent...

A CD collection of Brahms Choral Works filled a gap in my collection - Op 104 is described
as 'one of Brahms's most exquisitely despondent works...' Who could resist?

And of course there is the Irish Diaspora content. For example, in Brahms, Drei Gesange,
Op. 42, there are the lines...

Wann erstehst du wieder in deiner Schone?
Schonste der Schonen in Erin!

So - little Ir-D competition - who was the fairest of the fair in Erin? And who wrote the
original text?

The latest Stacy Kent is a bit disappointing. Not enough smoke, and no Irish Diaspora
content whatsover...

P.O'S.

- --
Patrick O'Sullivan
Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit

Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Email Patrick O'Sullivan

Irish-Diaspora list
Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/

Personal Fax National 0870 284 1580
Fax International +44 870 284 1580

Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Department of Interdisciplinary Human Studies
University of Bradford
Bradford BD7 1DP
Yorkshire
England
 TOP
1506  
30 October 2000 11:40  
  
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:40:00 +0000 Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk Sender: From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk Subject: Ir-D Colleen Bawn MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <1312884591.7AcfFE51035.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk> [IR-DLOG0010.txt]
  
Ir-D Colleen Bawn
  
Patrick Maume
  
From: Patrick Maume
Subject: Re: Ir-D 'Garryowen' 3

From: Patrick Maume
Yes - I forgot the Boucicault play does not have the same title as
the opera (The Lily of Killarney). I think it was Boucicault who
moved the setting from the Shannon to Killarney.



>
> From: Marion Casey
> Subject: Re: Ir-D 'Garryowen' 2
>
>
> Isn't Griffin's The Collegians the basis for The Colleen Bawn?
>
> Marion Casey
> Department of History
> New York University
>
>
 TOP
1507  
30 October 2000 11:40  
  
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:40:00 +0000 Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk Sender: From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk Subject: Ir-D 'Garryowen' 6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <1312884591.B8cB0FEb1034.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk> [IR-DLOG0010.txt]
  
Ir-D 'Garryowen' 6
  
Don MacRaild
  
From: Don MacRaild
Subject: RE: Ir-D 'Garryowen' 5

We may have to ponder a while on whether 'garryowen' is only used when the
Irish team is playing. The most famous commentator in rugby union in
England/Scotland/Wales is probably still Bill McLaren, whose distinctive
voice I can imagine saying 'it's a Garryowen ...' in every game. He does, of
course, commentate on Ireland some of the time -- as well as on every other
team in the six nations (plus the tri-nations, when they are touring north).

However, I would say the most famous utterance of 'it's an up and under'
came from the long dead Eddie Wearing. Now, Eddie Wearing wouldn't have got
out of bed to watch Ireland because his game was rugby league, and most
hard-bitten northern (English) sons, like Wearing, have no time for rugby
union because that code -- despite its relatively lowly social profile in
Wales, Scotland, Ireland, parts of Yorkshire and in England's West Country
- -- is viewed as a toff's game. The fact that the League code is propped up
by the sons of the Lancashire and Yorkshire Irish (Farrell, Cassidy,
McDermott, etc., ad nauseum), is another thing altogether, I guess, but
Eddie Wearing was probably blissfully unaware of it!

A PhD thesis on the Irish contribution to early professional rugby (i.e.
League) would be very worthwhile.

Don MacRaild
Northumbria



> -----Original Message-----
> From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk [SMTP:irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk]
> Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2000 9:29 PM
> To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
> Subject: Ir-D 'Garryowen' 5
>
>
> From: Cymru66[at]aol.com
> Subject: Re: Ir-D 'Garryowen' 2
>
> Dear Paddy,
> If my memory serves me correctly the term 'Garryowen' is also used to
> describe, in Rugby Football, a high, testing kick into the opponent's
> territory with the objective, rarely achieved, of unsettling their defence
>
> and/or providing your side with a scoring opportunity.
> Interestingly, the term is only used by commentators when Ireland are
> playing. For everyone else the phrase is 'up and under'.
> Best,
> John
 TOP
1508  
1 November 2000 15:00  
  
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 15:00:00 +0000 Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk Sender: From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk Subject: Ir-D 'Garryowen' 7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <1312884591.1BFcbC831039.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk> [IR-DLOG0011.txt]
  
Ir-D 'Garryowen' 7
  
hartel@smuc.ac.uk
  
From: hartel[at]smuc.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Ir-D 'Garryowen' 6

From: Liam Harte
Subject: Garryowen

Don MacRaild is quite right about the usage of 'garryowen' not
being confined to Irish rugby games or commentators. Anyone
watching last Saturday's Bath v. Munster European Cup game on
BBC2 television will have heard the impeccably English Nigel
Starmer-Smith use the term on a number of occasions. In fact at
one point he even referred to the term's Limerick associations as
he was listing the number of Limerickmen on the Munster team.

Liam Harte
London


- --
Dr Liam Harte
Senior Lecturer in Irish Studies
St Mary's College
Strawberry Hill
Twickenham
England TW1 4SX

Tel: 020-8240 4091
Fax: 020-8240 4255

E-mail: hartel[at]smuc.ac.uk
 TOP
1509  
1 November 2000 15:01  
  
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 15:01:00 +0000 Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk Sender: From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk Subject: Ir-D Wakes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <1312884591.f7fb51041.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk> [IR-DLOG0011.txt]
  
Ir-D Wakes
  
ppo@aber.ac.uk
  
From: ppo[at]aber.ac.uk
Subject: 'Wakes' and wakes

Dear Paddy,

Thanks for the mention of the discussion of wakes in my book. I had thought
of contributing to this strand myself but I was diverted by a large influx
of undergraduate essays.
There is a gender dimension to the whole process of preparing the corpse
for burial which I only discovered after I wrote my book but which I should
really have been aware of, ie the fact that it was women who were
responsible for cleaning, dressing the body etc. With the rise of funeral
parlours this has disappeared. Like much else connected with 'unofficial'
rituals like this, the historical evidence is fragmentary and much depends
on casual survivals. One aspect of wakes which would bear further
examination is the survival or otherwise of wake amusements (see Sean o
Suilleabhain, Irish Wake Amusements, 1969).
Best wishes

Paul O'Leary




Dr Paul O'Leary
Adran Hanes a Hanes Cymru / Dept of History and Welsh History
Prifysgol Cymru Aberystwyth / University of Wales Aberystwyth
Aberystwyth
Ceredigion SY23 3DY

Tel: 01970 622842
Fax: 01970 622676
 TOP
1510  
1 November 2000 15:02  
  
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 15:02:00 +0000 Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk Sender: From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk Subject: Ir-D Irish Texts Society/UCC Seminar MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <1312884591.2ED06Ba1036.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk> [IR-DLOG0011.txt]
  
Ir-D Irish Texts Society/UCC Seminar
  
Doran, Mary
  
From: "Doran, Mary"
Subject: Irish Texts Society/UCC Seminar

Dear All:
Please see information below on the forthcoming Irish Texts
Society/University College Cork Seminar.
Best wishes
Mary
[Mary Doran, Curator, Modern Irish Collections, The British Library]
________________________________________________________________________=

Second ITS/UCC Seminar - Seimine=E1r 2000
The second ITS/UCC Seminar will take place at UCC on Saturday, 11 =
November
2000. Each year's seminar is devoted to a single text or collection in =
the
Society's main series of publications. This year the seminar will be
devoted to the work of D=E1ibh=ED O Bruadair (ITS volumes 11, 13 and =
18).
D=E1ibh=ED O Bruadair (c 1625 - 1698) is a colossus-like figure amongst =
the
Gaelic poets of the second half of the 17th century. The corpus of =
his
literary output is substantial and enjoyed, in its day, the benefit of
careful transmission.
O Bruadair's poems are not only valuable primary source documents for =
the
political, military and social life of the period, but can also be read =
as
essentially 17th century meditations or, indeed, as literary constructs =
in
heavily textured and often challenging language.
Seminar Programme
* Dr Liam P O Murch=FA (Cork): 'Is mairg n=E1r chrean re maitheas
saoghalta'.
* Professor Breand=E1n O Conch=FAir (Cork): Manuscript =
transmission of the
work of O Bruadair.
* Dr Margo Griffin-Wilson (USA): An Chros=E1ntacht in the poetry =
of
D=E1ibh=ED O Bruadair.
* Dr Bernadette Cunningham (Dublin): O Bruadair's sense of =
history.
* Mr Liam Irwin (Limerick): 'Purgatory revisited': the historical
context of O Bruadair.

To register for the Seminar please send your name and address with a =
=A310
registration fee (includes lunch) payable to 'Na Ranna Gaeilge/ITS =
Seminar'
to the following address Na Ranna Gaeilge /ITSSeminar, Col=E1iste na
hOlIscoile, Corcaigh by 3 November 2000. (Enquiries: Tel 00 353 (0)21 =
90
2607 Fax 00 353 (0)21 903102.)
 TOP
1511  
1 November 2000 15:03  
  
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 15:03:00 +0000 Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk Sender: From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk Subject: Ir-D Garryowen Continued MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <1312884591.D0cdF31037.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk> [IR-DLOG0011.txt]
  
Ir-D Garryowen Continued
  
Reply-To: "Brian McGinn"
Subject: Re: Ir-D 'Garryowen'

Thanks to all who have responded to date. Since posting the original query,
I've also pickup up some additional background from off-line informants.

The tune, as Peter Holloran remarked, is still the official march of the US
Army's 7th Cavalry Regiment. Members of this fighting unit will break into
whistled renditions of 'Garry Owen', as they call it, at the drop of a hat.

According to popular military lore, General George Custer first heard the
tune being whistled by his Carlow-born 7th Cavalry subordinate Myles Walter
Keogh, who in turn learned it from his father John, a veteran of the British
Army's 5th Royal Irish Lancers. In his three-part series on Myles Keogh,
http://www.thewildgeese.com/pages/plains.html
historian Brian C. Pohanka states that John Keogh never served in the
Lancers, or any other British regiment, and that Custer would have been
familiar with the tune from his officer-training days at West Point, New
York. Pohanka suggests that Custer latched on to Garryowen because he
realized that its rhythm was ideally suited to the prancing gait of his
cavalry mounts.

Lieutenant Colonel Kenneth H. Powers, regimental historian of the 69th New
York, points out that Garryowen has been "inseparably joined with the name
of the 69th" for some 150 years. According to Ken, Garryowen's first
adoption as a U.S. regimental march was by the 'Fighting 69th'--"not by
formal decree (even to this day) but by continued use and undying popularity
until it became recognized as the official regimental march." Ken, who is
something of a purist on the military use of Garryowen, thinks the tune is
properly rendered only as an instrumental. "They", he says, referring to the
horse-soldiers of the 7th Cavalry, "keep adding words to it."

Since the 69th New York has been serving as official military escort for the
New York St. Patrick's Day Parade since the early 1850s, this may account,
in part, for the tune's familiarity in those late C19th Irish wards of lower
Manhattan mentioned in Dan Casserly's informative contribution.

In addition to the two US Army regiments, Ken Powers points out that
Garryowen was also adopted as the regimental march of Irish Regiment of
Canada, the London Irish Rifles and the Royal Irish Regiment. The London
Rifles were I think a World War I regiment, but the Royal Irish were one of
the oldest Irish formations in the British Army, dating back to the C17th.

In a note in The Irish Sword (Winter 1957, p. 127) a correspondent who
signed himself simply O'Doneven remarked that "Garrowen was the regimental
march of the 18th Royal Irish Regiment in the British Army, the regiment
whose collar badges sported the honour of being 'first in Namur', referring
to the attack on that place in 1694. The 18th, actually the 3rd regiment of
foot, were eventually, being Irish, relegated to the position of 18th on the
Army List. They held that place till their disbandment in 1922."

Unfortunately, O'Doneven does not explain when or why the Royal Irish
adopted the tune. Did Garryowen, Limerick fall within one of their
traditional areas of recruitment? And did Garryowen start out as an
instrumental or a song, or, as Patrick Maume's posting suggested, a tune
inspired by a song?

Brian McGinn
Alexandria, Virginia
 TOP
1512  
1 November 2000 15:05  
  
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 15:05:00 +0000 Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk Sender: From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk Subject: Ir-D USA Immigration History Book Advice MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <1312884591.aBb1afe41042.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk> [IR-DLOG0011.txt]
  
Ir-D USA Immigration History Book Advice
  
Thomas J. Archdeacon
  
From: "Thomas J. Archdeacon"
Subject: Book Advice

Dear List Members:

I want to request your advice about a book to assign on Irish
emigration/immigration around the time of the Famine. The course is a
survey
of US Immigration History. I currently use Bob Scally's book, which I like
because it discusses origins as well as outcomes. The undergraduate
scholars
who trust their minds to me, however, find the book too hard to read. That,
of
course, says more about them than about the book, but I am willing to
consider
alternatives. I can't use Kerby Miller -- too long for my purposes; at
another
extreme, Paddy's Lament also fails to fit the bill. Please don't suggest a
set
of articles; I sometimes use those, but the students currently prefer whole
books.

As you can tell, I'm feeling a bit of frustration. Thanks, however, for
whatever suggestions you can offer.

Tom
 TOP
1513  
1 November 2000 15:06  
  
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 15:06:00 +0000 Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk Sender: From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk Subject: Ir-D And More on Garryowen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <1312884591.32BdE1038.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk> [IR-DLOG0011.txt]
  
Ir-D And More on Garryowen
  
Cymru66@aol.com
  
From: Cymru66[at]aol.com
Subject: Re: Ir-D 'Garryowen' 6

Dear Don,
You're absolutely right. How could I have forgotten Bill McClaren, one of
the best commentators ever who graced the rugby scene? And Eddie Waring, one
of my distant neighbours during the decade I spent in Yorkshire.
One small point of contention. As a person born and brought up in Wales I
have to challenge the assumption that Rugby Union was a 'class' game' and
superior in that sense to Rugby League. The most outstanding Welsh players
came from the Pits and the Steelworks with a sprinkling of schoolteachers -
look at the triumphant Welsh sides of the '60's and 70's. Their low economic
status made them prime prospects for Rugby League - not any more, now that
both codes are professional. Even in England times started to change in
terms
of class affiliation some decades ago and their teams have long since ceased
to be dominated by products of the expensive orphanages called 'public
schools'.
Back to McClaren. One of my best memories of him relates to the time when
the great Gibson while playing for Ireland against Wales raised his arm in a
referee's gesture to indicate that an attempted Welsh drop at goal was
successful. McClaren's comment was that he hoped that every schoolboy
watching learned that precious lesson in real sportmanship.
I could go on, like describing the Rev. Jackie Kyle's try for Ireland at
Cardiff Arms Park but I've taken-up enough time and space.
Thanks,
John Hickey
 TOP
1514  
1 November 2000 15:07  
  
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 15:07:00 +0000 Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk Sender: From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk Subject: Ir-D And Yet More on Garryowen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <1312884591.0Ad8f1040.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk> [IR-DLOG0011.txt]
  
Ir-D And Yet More on Garryowen
  
Elizabeth Malcolm
  
From: Elizabeth Malcolm
Subject: Garryowen

Dear Paddy,

Just to further complicate the question of the meaning of the word
Garryowen, my copy of Share's dictionary of Irish slang tells me that
the Irish army - specifically in Lebanon in the late 1990s - used the
word to mean 'a state of alert'.

As a long-time rugby fan I was aware of the word meaning a high kick
forward, although I don't think it's used in Australian rugby. I only
recollect hearing it in Ireland and England and I understood it
derived from a Limerick rugby club called Garryowen. When and why I
don't know. Is (was) there such a club?

As for the music, I certainly recognise its connection with the 7th
cavalry. Fans of Errol Flynn films will know it features prominently
in his film about Custer. I haven't seen the film in a long time, but
I think it's called 'They died with their boots on'! Am I right?
(Very strange title. Presumably it's more heroic not to have your
boots stolen before death in a battle, even if it happens after.
However, Flynn I gather was famous at one time for keeping his sox
on! Maybe the title was some sort of joke about that.) Again, if I
recollect rightly, in the film it is an English army officer who
teaches Custer the tune. But I can't remember the details.

Anyway, to be honest, I still remain baffled. Where did the music
come from? What does the name mean? Does it have a particular
Limerick connection? Why did Custer adopt it? And how did the rugby
association arise?

Elizabeth Malcolm
Melbourne

Professor Elizabeth Malcolm tel 03-8344 3924
Department of History fax 03-8344 7894
University of Melbourne
Parkville
Victoria, 3010
Australia

email e.malcolm[at]history.unimelb.edu.au
 TOP
1515  
1 November 2000 22:07  
  
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 22:07:00 +0000 Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk Sender: From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk Subject: Ir-D And, Yes, Garryowen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <1312884591.c70e7B81046.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk> [IR-DLOG0011.txt]
  
Ir-D And, Yes, Garryowen
  
peter c holloran
  
From: peter c holloran
Subject: Re: Ir-D And Yet More on Garryowen

General Custer did adopt Garry Owen as the theme song for his 7th Cavalry,
but I don't think there is any clear reason why. He simply liked it?

In the film, They Died with Their Boots on, he did learn the song from an
Englishman in the US Army but that may be an movie fact rather than
historical.

Peter Holloran
New England Historical Association
 TOP
1516  
1 November 2000 22:08  
  
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 22:08:00 +0000 Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk Sender: From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk Subject: Ir-D Garryowen Encouragement MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <1312884591.11FDFE1043.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk> [IR-DLOG0011.txt]
  
Ir-D Garryowen Encouragement
  
Subject: Re: Ir-D 'Garryowen'
From: Eileen A Sullivan

B

Let me know if you find the connection between the tune and whatever.

E

Dr. Eileen A. Sullivan, Director
The Irish Educational Association, Inc. Tel # (352) 332
3690
6412 NW 128th Street E-Mail :
eolas1[at]juno.com
Gainesville, FL 32653
 TOP
1517  
1 November 2000 22:10  
  
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 22:10:00 +0000 Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk Sender: From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk Subject: Ir-D Irish in New Zealand MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <1312884591.34061047.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk> [IR-DLOG0011.txt]
  
Ir-D Irish in New Zealand
  
Lyndon Fraser
  
From: Lyndon Fraser
Subject: New Publication on the Irish in New Zealand

Dear Paddy,

List members might be interested in a recently published volume of
essays on the Irish in New Zealand. The literature on the diaspora in
this part of the world is rather thin and we do not even appear in the
Irish Empire series (perhaps the producers thought we were part of
Australia!!). Don Akenson hoists a few of his trademark 'garryowens' in
the opening essay . . .

Not sure what you can include from the press release - perhaps the
contents, title & ISBN are most important.


Best wishes,
Lyndon Fraser


MEDIA RELEASE
New Perspectives on the Irish in New Zealand

A Distant Shore
Irish Migration and New Zealand Settlement
Edited by Lyndon Fraser
ISBN 1 877133 97 3, 192 pages, $39.95, published October 2000

A new book about New Zealand's Irish heritage offers the view that
colonial New Zealand was more multicultural than we have been led to
believe. Eight writers - most of Irish descent - have contributed to
the book, titled A Distant Shore: Irish Migration and New Zealand
Settlement.

The book is edited by Lyndon Fraser, a sociology lecturer at the
University of Canterbury. According to Dr Fraser, "A Distant Shore moves
us towards a multicultural, more inclusive history of New Zealand." It
focuses on Irish migration in the nineteenth and early twentieth
century, making new research accessible to the general reader. In the
first chapter, Don Akenson argues that biculturalism is an inadequate
framework with which to view the past. This theme surfaces throughout
the book as the contributors illustrate cultural differences among Irish
migrants and within colonial society. Akenson also places New Zealand
Irish in the context of the worldwide Irish diaspora.

An internationally celebrated scholar in the field of Irish Studies,
Patrick O'Farrell, explores the complex nature of 'Irishness', how it
developed and how it has been defined in New Zealand. Alasdair Galbraith
rediscovers the 'invisible' but influential Irish Protestant tradition
in colonial New Zealand, revealing the prejudices against Catholics, and
how Protestant migration was encouraged.

By analysing information from passenger lists and death registers, Terry
Hearn constructs a composite profile of Irish migrants: their origins in
Ireland, their occupations, where they settled, their age, sex and
marital status, contrasting these with statistics on the English, Scots
and Welsh. Strong connections with the Irish on the Australian
goldfields are revealed in the book, particularly in Terry Hearn's
chapter on the
Irish in the Otago goldfields, and in a chapter on Irish migration to
the West
Coast by Lyndon Fraser. These two chapters also highlight regional
variations
in migration patterns.

Angela McCarthy looks at migrant women's letters, which offer a personal
glimpse into how these women from a variety of backgrounds adjusted to
their new environments. She shows the critical importance of kinship
links for Irish women, with family in Ireland as well as family in New
Zealand and across the Tasman, using personal letters as one of her
sources.

No book on the Irish would be complete without a mention of politics.
Seán Brosnahan explores Irish issues in New Zealand politics from
1916-1922, looking at the changing views on Irish nationalism sparked by
the 1916 Easter Rising in Dublin. He also discusses conscription issues,
and
gives fresh insight into Irish support for the emerging Labour Party.

In the final chapter, Rory Sweetman portrays the organisation and
development of the Hibernian Australasian Catholic Benefit society in
New Zealand, and offers an account of Hibernian responses to political
events in Ireland.

A Distant Shore provides an excellent overview of Irish migration to New
Zealand. It will be of interest to people with Irish ancestry,
genealogists, and to anyone with an interest in New Zealand history. All
royalties from the book will be donated to the New Zealand Child Cancer
Foundation Inc.

Contents: 1 No Petty People: Pakeha History and the Historiography of
the Irish Diaspora, Don Akenson, 2 Varieties of New Zealand Irishness: A
Meditation, Patrick O'Farrell, 3 The Invisible Irish? Re-Discovering the
Irish Protestant Tradition in Colonial New Zealand, Alasdair Galbraith,
4 Irish Migration to New Zealand to 1915, Terry Hearn, 5 The Irish on
the Otago Goldfields 1861-1871, Terry Hearn, 6 Irish Migration to the
West
Coast, Lyndon Fraser, 7 'In Prospect of a Happier Future: Private
Letters and Irish Women's Migration, Angela McCarthy, 8 'Shaming the
Shoneens': The Green Ray and the Maoriland Irish Society in Dunedin
1916-1922, Sean Brosnahan, 9 'The Importance of Being Irish':
Hibernianism in New
Zealand, 1869-1969, Rory Sweetman.

The Contributors
Don Akenson, Professor of History, Queen's University, Kingston,
Ontario, Beamish Professor of Irish Studies, University of Liverpool;
Sean Brosnahan, Curator of Social History, Otago Settlers Museum; Lyndon
Fraser, Lecturer, Sociology Dept, University of Canterbury; Alasdair
Galbraith, Auckland-based historian; Terry Hearn, Historian, Historical
Branch, Ministry of Culture & Heritage; Angela McCarthy, PhD student,
Trinity College, Dublin; Patrick O'Farrell, Emeritus Scientia Professor
of History, University of New South Wales; internationally celebrated
Irish Studies scholar; Rory Sweetman, freelance historian

A Distant Shore
Irish Migration and New Zealand Settlement
Edited by Lyndon Fraser
ISBN 1 877133 97 3, 192 pages, $39.95, published October 2000
- --
Lyndon Fraser
Lecturer
Department of Sociology
University of Canterbury
Private Bag 4800
Christchurch
New Zealand

tel: 64-3-3667001 extn. 7102
http://www.soci.canterbury.ac.nz/staff-lf.htm
 TOP
1518  
1 November 2000 22:17  
  
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 22:17:00 +0000 Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk Sender: From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk Subject: Ir-D Garryowen For Ever MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <1312884591.2ffD83a71045.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk> [IR-DLOG0011.txt]
  
Ir-D Garryowen For Ever
  
Brian McGinn
  
From: "Brian McGinn"
Subject: Re: Garryowen

Since I started this, I suppose there's nothing to do now but head for the
local video store and hum along with the Custer portrayals by Errol Flynn in
'They Died With Their Boots On' (1941), Richard Mulligan in 'Little Big Man'
(1970). Maybe even Ronald Reagan in 'Santa Fe Trail' (1940).

During the U.S. Civil War, in which Custer also served, boots were scarce
and prized possessions. In 'A Harvest of Death', Timothy O'Sullivan's
classic photograph of the Union dead at Gettysburg, the corpses are all
bootless. Although, like the Little Bighorn, I'd assume these soldiers also
died with their boots on, perhaps there was some sense in which bootlessness
connoted surrender while booted implied fighting to the last bullet/breath?
Logically, this doesn't make much sense--if the end result in each case was
bare feet.

Garryowen is in Limerick. The name derives from the Irish words meaning
'Eoghan's garden'. I don't know which Owen/Eugene it's named after.

There's another Garryowen, a tiny settlement astride Interstate 90 in
Montana. This one is clearly associated with the June 1876 events at the
nearby Custer Battlefield National Monument.

Revisiting Ken Power's immense store of knowledge on regimental traditions,
I find the following reference to the march 'Garryowen':
"Although played by the Irish War Pipes for centuries, it only came into
prominence in the outside world after it was heard in an English pantomime
called 'Harlequin Amulet' which was produced in 1800."

Brian Pohanka, in his already mentioned series on Myles Keogh of the 7th
Cavalry, quoted the following from Charles Lever's 'Charles O'Malley, the
Irish Dragoon' (Dublin, 1841):

Now I like Garryowen
When I hear it at home
But it's not half so sweet
When you're going to be kilt.


Brian McGinn
Alexandria, Virginia
 TOP
1519  
1 November 2000 22:18  
  
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 22:18:00 +0000 Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk Sender: From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk Subject: Ir-D Garryowen, Iowa and Dakota MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <1312884591.ccfBBacD1044.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk> [IR-DLOG0011.txt]
  
Ir-D Garryowen, Iowa and Dakota
  
Kerby Miller
  
From: Kerby Miller
Subject: Re: Ir-D 'Garryowen' 7

A number of years ago, I was doing research on a pre-Civil War Irish
settlement in Iowa called Garryowen. Later the name was transferred
to the SE tip of South Dakota as some of the early Irish settlers
migrated further westward, there joined by newcomers from Kerry,
Limerick, etc.

At the time I was interested in the name's origins. The various
sources I examined (memoirs by old residents, etc.) suggested that
Garryowen had been a popular fair or meeting ground just outside the
old city walls, if I remember correctly. However, from somewhere I
also had the impression that there was some kind of connection with
the Siege of Limerick.

I'll be indebted, also, if anyone can shed any light on this topic.
Perhaps these bits of information (however [un]reliable) may spark
someone else's memory?

Sincerely,

Kerby Miller.
 TOP
1520  
2 November 2000 07:05  
  
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 07:05:00 +0000 Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk Sender: From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk Subject: Ir-D Book Advice 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <1312884591.6eE1f1251048.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk> [IR-DLOG0011.txt]
  
Ir-D Book Advice 2
  
jamesam@mail.con2.com (gary and patricia jameson-sammartano)
  
From: jamesam[at]mail.con2.com (gary and patricia jameson-sammartano)
Subject: Re: Ir-D USA Immigration History Book Advice

Tom,

How about Woodham-Smith's The Great Hunger? Or perhaps Kerby Miller's Out
of Ireland(for undergrads, it is a wide survey,and you have the opportunity
of showing the video with the book)? Or anything by Christine Keneally?

I'll look at my bookshelf for others.

Slán,

Patricia

>From: "Thomas J. Archdeacon"
>Subject: Book Advice
>
>Dear List Members:
>
>I want to request your advice about a book to assign on Irish
>emigration/immigration around the time of the Famine. The course is a
>survey
>of US Immigration History. I currently use Bob Scally's book, which I like
>because it discusses origins as well as outcomes. The undergraduate
>scholars
>who trust their minds to me, however, find the book too hard to read.
That,
>of
>course, says more about them than about the book, but I am willing to
>consider
>alternatives. I can't use Kerby Miller -- too long for my purposes; at
>another
>extreme, Paddy's Lament also fails to fit the bill. Please don't suggest a
>set
>of articles; I sometimes use those, but the students currently prefer whole
>books.
>
>As you can tell, I'm feeling a bit of frustration. Thanks, however, for
>whatever suggestions you can offer.
>
>Tom

Patricia Jameson- and Gary Sammartano
 TOP

PAGE    76   77   78   79   80      674