1501 | 30 October 2000 07:39 |
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 07:39:00 +0000
Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk
Sender:
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Ir-D Ignatiev
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <1312884591.E4E0d04A1031.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk>
[IR-DLOG0010.txt] | |
Ir-D Ignatiev | |
Irish-Diaspora list member John Hickey has a query about
Noel Ignatiev, How the Irish Became White. New York & London: Routledge, Chapman & Hall, September 1995. ISBN: 0-415-91384-5 "An African-American colleague of my wife's has mentioned the book. He has a very interesting interpretation of its argument i.e. how Irish immigrants to the U.S. learned how to become part of the 'oppressor' group here." John Hickey wonders how the debate has developed since the book's publication. We discussed Ignatiev's book on the Ir-D list early last year... Some Web references that I found then included... 1. Noel Ignatiev's own comments can be found at http://www.hcs.harvard.edu/~dnd/issues/302/thenew.html The New Abolitionism By Noel Ignatiev 'Race is a biological fiction...' 2. There is a review of The book at http://www.afn.org/~dks/race/wald-ignatiev.html This review appeared in The Boston Globe, November 7, 1995 "The Irish, the Blacks and the Struggle with Racism," by Elijah Wald, Globe Correspondent 1995 The Boston Globe [I posted this review as a separate item to the Irish-Diaspora list.] 3. There is a personal response to the book at http://www.commonb.com/issue3/words/irish/index.html a review written by Regina Raiford I have listed here only the Web addresses/sites that still work... Generally my impression is that Ignatiev has been absorbed into the discussion of 'whiteness' in the United States - usually coupled with David Roediger, The Wages of Whiteness, 1991. See for example Henry A Giroux, 'Rewriting the discourse of racial identity: Towards a pedagogy and politics of whiteness', Harvard Educational Review, Summer 1997 ISSN: 0017-8055; Vol. 67 No. 2; p. 285 Any more up to date thoughts or references? P.O'S. | |
TOP | |
1502 | 30 October 2000 07:49 |
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 07:49:00 +0000
Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk
Sender:
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Ir-D The Mulligan Guard
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <1312884591.D8ad1025.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk>
[IR-DLOG0010.txt] | |
Ir-D The Mulligan Guard | |
DanCas1@aol.com | |
From: DanCas1[at]aol.com
Subject: Re: 'Garryowen' & The Mulligan Guard Garryowen & Harrigan's The Mulligan Guard The play and the theme song, "The Mulligan Guard," with book and lyrics by prolific comedic playwright Edward "Ned" Harrigan (1845-1911), and music by his father-in-law David Braham (1838-1905), was written in 1873 and was one of the megahits of the musical comedy stage of the late nineteenth century. Harrigan was part of a NYC-based vaudeville team with Tony Hart (1855-1891). Their revues and Harrigan's plays are arguably the Ur-texts of the modern American Musical. His daughter Nedda Harrigan married the seminal Broadway producer Josh Logan in the 1920s. The Mulligan Guard's smashing success spawned a whole series of Mulligan plays by Ned Harrigan, and I believe the song is even mentioned in Kipling's Kim; it was reputedly a popular marching song for British troops in India and elsewhere. It was also a particular favorite of the New York Irish, including luminaries like "Famine" immigrant gang leader, shoulder hitter, and Tammany Ard Ri, Richard Croker, and NY's Irish Catholic Governor and the 1928 Democratic Presidential nominee, Al Smith, who remained an avid Harriganophile to the end of his life. With the emergence of Harrigan, the American Irish learn to laugh at themselves (as well as the "other") with a palpable sense of self confidence. The Mulligan Guards' march "From Sligo Ward below," and then from Baxter Street to Avenue A, takes them through the oldest Irish wards of lower Manhattan, the 2nd, 4th, Bloody Ould 6th, 14th, and beyond to Avenue A and Tompkins Square Park, site of the bread and unemployment riots of the 1850s, and the early communist and labor meetings of the 1870s. Now, what is the relevance to Garryowen? See lyrics below. The tune and tempo of "The Mulligan Guard" is catchy, comedically martial, and quite stirring. It is obvious that Garryowen, which is the first of the only two songs referred to in the lyric, is an anthem of some resonance to the Irish Americans of those turbulent, but not totally unhumorous, times. The Mulligan Guard by Edward Harrigan and David Braham (1873) We crave your condescension. We'll tell you what we know Of marching in the Mulligan Guard >From Sligo Ward below. Our Captain's name was Hussey, A Tipperary man, He carried his sword like a Russian duke whene'er he took command (chorus) We shoulder'd guns and march'd and march'd away, from Baxter Street we march'd to Avenue A, with drum and fife how sweetly they did play, We march'd march'd march'd in the Mulligan Guard. When the band played GARRYOWEN, Or the Connamara Pet; with a rub a dub dub, we'd march in the mud, To the military step. With the green above the red, boys, To show where we come from, Our guns we'd lift with the right shoulder shift, As we'd march to the bate of the drum. (Chorus) When we got home at night, boys, The divil a bite we'd ate, we'd all set up and drink a sup Of whiskey strong and nate. Then we'd all march home together, as slippery as lard, The solid min would all fall in, And march with the Mulligan Guard! (Forward March!) Chorus and out...) Of course, there is also some "kidding on the square" embodied in the song. In 1873, when it was penned, John Devoy, O'Donovan Rossa and other nationalist minded Irish and Irish Americans, many of them living, working, marching, and plotting in the very neighborhoods mentioned in the lyric, were already planning some slightly more serious unmusical martial endeavors (involving guns, dynamite, and even a submarine) under the banner of Clann na Gael in Rossa's 6th Ward Hotel and wherever one might find the solitary Devoy. Daniel Cassidy New College of California San Francisco | |
TOP | |
1503 | 30 October 2000 07:59 |
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 07:59:00 +0000
Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk
Sender:
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Ir-D 'Jack-Catholic'
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <1312884591.ABb01024.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk>
[IR-DLOG0010.txt] | |
Ir-D 'Jack-Catholic' | |
New York... Irish-Diaspora list member Marion Casey | |
From New York... Irish-Diaspora list member Marion Casey
asks... "Dan, What is a "jack-Catholic"? I never heard that term before." After enquiry, I find that 'Jack-Catholic' is a Danny Cassidy coinage, from the American slang term Jack-Mormon (a Mormon who adheres only minimally or not at all to the orthodoxies of the faith). Maybe the coinage does fill a long-felt need... P.O'S. | |
TOP | |
1504 | 30 October 2000 09:39 |
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 09:39:00 +0000
Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk
Sender:
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Ir-D Ignatiev 2
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <1312884591.ADef071032.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk>
[IR-DLOG0010.txt] | |
Ir-D Ignatiev 2 | |
The following Web sites might be of interest...
http://zmag.org/Zmag/articles/jan97postel.htm http://lilt.ilstu.edu/gmklass/pos334/archive/ignatiev.htm - -- Patrick O'Sullivan Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit Email Patrick O'Sullivan Email Patrick O'Sullivan Irish-Diaspora list Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/ Personal Fax National 0870 284 1580 Fax International +44 870 284 1580 Irish Diaspora Research Unit Department of Interdisciplinary Human Studies University of Bradford Bradford BD7 1DP Yorkshire England | |
TOP | |
1505 | 30 October 2000 11:39 |
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:39:00 +0000
Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk
Sender:
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Ir-D Schonste der Schonen in Erin
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <1312884591.3CC041033.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk>
[IR-DLOG0010.txt] | |
Ir-D Schonste der Schonen in Erin | |
Email Patrick O'Sullivan | |
From Email Patrick O'Sullivan
My thanks to all those who offered sympathy and advice, as I recovered from flu. I have, of course, followed all the advice, to the letter - and you must imagine me, sitting here, in a miasma of herbs, garlic, whiskey and chicken soup... Recovering from flu involves exploration of the farther shores of melancholia. So, at the weekend, to the record shop for more Brahms and Stacy Kent... A CD collection of Brahms Choral Works filled a gap in my collection - Op 104 is described as 'one of Brahms's most exquisitely despondent works...' Who could resist? And of course there is the Irish Diaspora content. For example, in Brahms, Drei Gesange, Op. 42, there are the lines... Wann erstehst du wieder in deiner Schone? Schonste der Schonen in Erin! So - little Ir-D competition - who was the fairest of the fair in Erin? And who wrote the original text? The latest Stacy Kent is a bit disappointing. Not enough smoke, and no Irish Diaspora content whatsover... P.O'S. - -- Patrick O'Sullivan Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit Email Patrick O'Sullivan Email Patrick O'Sullivan Irish-Diaspora list Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/ Personal Fax National 0870 284 1580 Fax International +44 870 284 1580 Irish Diaspora Research Unit Department of Interdisciplinary Human Studies University of Bradford Bradford BD7 1DP Yorkshire England | |
TOP | |
1506 | 30 October 2000 11:40 |
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:40:00 +0000
Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk
Sender:
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Ir-D Colleen Bawn
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <1312884591.7AcfFE51035.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk>
[IR-DLOG0010.txt] | |
Ir-D Colleen Bawn | |
Patrick Maume | |
From: Patrick Maume
Subject: Re: Ir-D 'Garryowen' 3 From: Patrick Maume Yes - I forgot the Boucicault play does not have the same title as the opera (The Lily of Killarney). I think it was Boucicault who moved the setting from the Shannon to Killarney. > > From: Marion Casey > Subject: Re: Ir-D 'Garryowen' 2 > > > Isn't Griffin's The Collegians the basis for The Colleen Bawn? > > Marion Casey > Department of History > New York University > > | |
TOP | |
1507 | 30 October 2000 11:40 |
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2000 11:40:00 +0000
Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk
Sender:
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Ir-D 'Garryowen' 6
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <1312884591.B8cB0FEb1034.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk>
[IR-DLOG0010.txt] | |
Ir-D 'Garryowen' 6 | |
Don MacRaild | |
From: Don MacRaild
Subject: RE: Ir-D 'Garryowen' 5 We may have to ponder a while on whether 'garryowen' is only used when the Irish team is playing. The most famous commentator in rugby union in England/Scotland/Wales is probably still Bill McLaren, whose distinctive voice I can imagine saying 'it's a Garryowen ...' in every game. He does, of course, commentate on Ireland some of the time -- as well as on every other team in the six nations (plus the tri-nations, when they are touring north). However, I would say the most famous utterance of 'it's an up and under' came from the long dead Eddie Wearing. Now, Eddie Wearing wouldn't have got out of bed to watch Ireland because his game was rugby league, and most hard-bitten northern (English) sons, like Wearing, have no time for rugby union because that code -- despite its relatively lowly social profile in Wales, Scotland, Ireland, parts of Yorkshire and in England's West Country - -- is viewed as a toff's game. The fact that the League code is propped up by the sons of the Lancashire and Yorkshire Irish (Farrell, Cassidy, McDermott, etc., ad nauseum), is another thing altogether, I guess, but Eddie Wearing was probably blissfully unaware of it! A PhD thesis on the Irish contribution to early professional rugby (i.e. League) would be very worthwhile. Don MacRaild Northumbria > -----Original Message----- > From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk [SMTP:irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk] > Sent: Sunday, October 29, 2000 9:29 PM > To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk > Subject: Ir-D 'Garryowen' 5 > > > From: Cymru66[at]aol.com > Subject: Re: Ir-D 'Garryowen' 2 > > Dear Paddy, > If my memory serves me correctly the term 'Garryowen' is also used to > describe, in Rugby Football, a high, testing kick into the opponent's > territory with the objective, rarely achieved, of unsettling their defence > > and/or providing your side with a scoring opportunity. > Interestingly, the term is only used by commentators when Ireland are > playing. For everyone else the phrase is 'up and under'. > Best, > John | |
TOP | |
1508 | 1 November 2000 15:00 |
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 15:00:00 +0000
Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk
Sender:
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Ir-D 'Garryowen' 7
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <1312884591.1BFcbC831039.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk>
[IR-DLOG0011.txt] | |
Ir-D 'Garryowen' 7 | |
hartel@smuc.ac.uk | |
From: hartel[at]smuc.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Ir-D 'Garryowen' 6 From: Liam Harte Subject: Garryowen Don MacRaild is quite right about the usage of 'garryowen' not being confined to Irish rugby games or commentators. Anyone watching last Saturday's Bath v. Munster European Cup game on BBC2 television will have heard the impeccably English Nigel Starmer-Smith use the term on a number of occasions. In fact at one point he even referred to the term's Limerick associations as he was listing the number of Limerickmen on the Munster team. Liam Harte London - -- Dr Liam Harte Senior Lecturer in Irish Studies St Mary's College Strawberry Hill Twickenham England TW1 4SX Tel: 020-8240 4091 Fax: 020-8240 4255 E-mail: hartel[at]smuc.ac.uk | |
TOP | |
1509 | 1 November 2000 15:01 |
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 15:01:00 +0000
Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk
Sender:
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Ir-D Wakes
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <1312884591.f7fb51041.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk>
[IR-DLOG0011.txt] | |
Ir-D Wakes | |
ppo@aber.ac.uk | |
From: ppo[at]aber.ac.uk
Subject: 'Wakes' and wakes Dear Paddy, Thanks for the mention of the discussion of wakes in my book. I had thought of contributing to this strand myself but I was diverted by a large influx of undergraduate essays. There is a gender dimension to the whole process of preparing the corpse for burial which I only discovered after I wrote my book but which I should really have been aware of, ie the fact that it was women who were responsible for cleaning, dressing the body etc. With the rise of funeral parlours this has disappeared. Like much else connected with 'unofficial' rituals like this, the historical evidence is fragmentary and much depends on casual survivals. One aspect of wakes which would bear further examination is the survival or otherwise of wake amusements (see Sean o Suilleabhain, Irish Wake Amusements, 1969). Best wishes Paul O'Leary Dr Paul O'Leary Adran Hanes a Hanes Cymru / Dept of History and Welsh History Prifysgol Cymru Aberystwyth / University of Wales Aberystwyth Aberystwyth Ceredigion SY23 3DY Tel: 01970 622842 Fax: 01970 622676 | |
TOP | |
1510 | 1 November 2000 15:02 |
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 15:02:00 +0000
Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk
Sender:
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Ir-D Irish Texts Society/UCC Seminar
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <1312884591.2ED06Ba1036.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk>
[IR-DLOG0011.txt] | |
Ir-D Irish Texts Society/UCC Seminar | |
Doran, Mary | |
From: "Doran, Mary"
Subject: Irish Texts Society/UCC Seminar Dear All: Please see information below on the forthcoming Irish Texts Society/University College Cork Seminar. Best wishes Mary [Mary Doran, Curator, Modern Irish Collections, The British Library] ________________________________________________________________________= Second ITS/UCC Seminar - Seimine=E1r 2000 The second ITS/UCC Seminar will take place at UCC on Saturday, 11 = November 2000. Each year's seminar is devoted to a single text or collection in = the Society's main series of publications. This year the seminar will be devoted to the work of D=E1ibh=ED O Bruadair (ITS volumes 11, 13 and = 18). D=E1ibh=ED O Bruadair (c 1625 - 1698) is a colossus-like figure amongst = the Gaelic poets of the second half of the 17th century. The corpus of = his literary output is substantial and enjoyed, in its day, the benefit of careful transmission. O Bruadair's poems are not only valuable primary source documents for = the political, military and social life of the period, but can also be read = as essentially 17th century meditations or, indeed, as literary constructs = in heavily textured and often challenging language. Seminar Programme * Dr Liam P O Murch=FA (Cork): 'Is mairg n=E1r chrean re maitheas saoghalta'. * Professor Breand=E1n O Conch=FAir (Cork): Manuscript = transmission of the work of O Bruadair. * Dr Margo Griffin-Wilson (USA): An Chros=E1ntacht in the poetry = of D=E1ibh=ED O Bruadair. * Dr Bernadette Cunningham (Dublin): O Bruadair's sense of = history. * Mr Liam Irwin (Limerick): 'Purgatory revisited': the historical context of O Bruadair. To register for the Seminar please send your name and address with a = =A310 registration fee (includes lunch) payable to 'Na Ranna Gaeilge/ITS = Seminar' to the following address Na Ranna Gaeilge /ITSSeminar, Col=E1iste na hOlIscoile, Corcaigh by 3 November 2000. (Enquiries: Tel 00 353 (0)21 = 90 2607 Fax 00 353 (0)21 903102.) | |
TOP | |
1511 | 1 November 2000 15:03 |
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 15:03:00 +0000
Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk
Sender:
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Ir-D Garryowen Continued
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <1312884591.D0cdF31037.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk>
[IR-DLOG0011.txt] | |
Ir-D Garryowen Continued | |
Reply-To: "Brian McGinn"
Subject: Re: Ir-D 'Garryowen' Thanks to all who have responded to date. Since posting the original query, I've also pickup up some additional background from off-line informants. The tune, as Peter Holloran remarked, is still the official march of the US Army's 7th Cavalry Regiment. Members of this fighting unit will break into whistled renditions of 'Garry Owen', as they call it, at the drop of a hat. According to popular military lore, General George Custer first heard the tune being whistled by his Carlow-born 7th Cavalry subordinate Myles Walter Keogh, who in turn learned it from his father John, a veteran of the British Army's 5th Royal Irish Lancers. In his three-part series on Myles Keogh, http://www.thewildgeese.com/pages/plains.html historian Brian C. Pohanka states that John Keogh never served in the Lancers, or any other British regiment, and that Custer would have been familiar with the tune from his officer-training days at West Point, New York. Pohanka suggests that Custer latched on to Garryowen because he realized that its rhythm was ideally suited to the prancing gait of his cavalry mounts. Lieutenant Colonel Kenneth H. Powers, regimental historian of the 69th New York, points out that Garryowen has been "inseparably joined with the name of the 69th" for some 150 years. According to Ken, Garryowen's first adoption as a U.S. regimental march was by the 'Fighting 69th'--"not by formal decree (even to this day) but by continued use and undying popularity until it became recognized as the official regimental march." Ken, who is something of a purist on the military use of Garryowen, thinks the tune is properly rendered only as an instrumental. "They", he says, referring to the horse-soldiers of the 7th Cavalry, "keep adding words to it." Since the 69th New York has been serving as official military escort for the New York St. Patrick's Day Parade since the early 1850s, this may account, in part, for the tune's familiarity in those late C19th Irish wards of lower Manhattan mentioned in Dan Casserly's informative contribution. In addition to the two US Army regiments, Ken Powers points out that Garryowen was also adopted as the regimental march of Irish Regiment of Canada, the London Irish Rifles and the Royal Irish Regiment. The London Rifles were I think a World War I regiment, but the Royal Irish were one of the oldest Irish formations in the British Army, dating back to the C17th. In a note in The Irish Sword (Winter 1957, p. 127) a correspondent who signed himself simply O'Doneven remarked that "Garrowen was the regimental march of the 18th Royal Irish Regiment in the British Army, the regiment whose collar badges sported the honour of being 'first in Namur', referring to the attack on that place in 1694. The 18th, actually the 3rd regiment of foot, were eventually, being Irish, relegated to the position of 18th on the Army List. They held that place till their disbandment in 1922." Unfortunately, O'Doneven does not explain when or why the Royal Irish adopted the tune. Did Garryowen, Limerick fall within one of their traditional areas of recruitment? And did Garryowen start out as an instrumental or a song, or, as Patrick Maume's posting suggested, a tune inspired by a song? Brian McGinn Alexandria, Virginia | |
TOP | |
1512 | 1 November 2000 15:05 |
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 15:05:00 +0000
Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk
Sender:
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Ir-D USA Immigration History Book Advice
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <1312884591.aBb1afe41042.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk>
[IR-DLOG0011.txt] | |
Ir-D USA Immigration History Book Advice | |
Thomas J. Archdeacon | |
From: "Thomas J. Archdeacon"
Subject: Book Advice Dear List Members: I want to request your advice about a book to assign on Irish emigration/immigration around the time of the Famine. The course is a survey of US Immigration History. I currently use Bob Scally's book, which I like because it discusses origins as well as outcomes. The undergraduate scholars who trust their minds to me, however, find the book too hard to read. That, of course, says more about them than about the book, but I am willing to consider alternatives. I can't use Kerby Miller -- too long for my purposes; at another extreme, Paddy's Lament also fails to fit the bill. Please don't suggest a set of articles; I sometimes use those, but the students currently prefer whole books. As you can tell, I'm feeling a bit of frustration. Thanks, however, for whatever suggestions you can offer. Tom | |
TOP | |
1513 | 1 November 2000 15:06 |
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 15:06:00 +0000
Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk
Sender:
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Ir-D And More on Garryowen
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <1312884591.32BdE1038.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk>
[IR-DLOG0011.txt] | |
Ir-D And More on Garryowen | |
Cymru66@aol.com | |
From: Cymru66[at]aol.com
Subject: Re: Ir-D 'Garryowen' 6 Dear Don, You're absolutely right. How could I have forgotten Bill McClaren, one of the best commentators ever who graced the rugby scene? And Eddie Waring, one of my distant neighbours during the decade I spent in Yorkshire. One small point of contention. As a person born and brought up in Wales I have to challenge the assumption that Rugby Union was a 'class' game' and superior in that sense to Rugby League. The most outstanding Welsh players came from the Pits and the Steelworks with a sprinkling of schoolteachers - look at the triumphant Welsh sides of the '60's and 70's. Their low economic status made them prime prospects for Rugby League - not any more, now that both codes are professional. Even in England times started to change in terms of class affiliation some decades ago and their teams have long since ceased to be dominated by products of the expensive orphanages called 'public schools'. Back to McClaren. One of my best memories of him relates to the time when the great Gibson while playing for Ireland against Wales raised his arm in a referee's gesture to indicate that an attempted Welsh drop at goal was successful. McClaren's comment was that he hoped that every schoolboy watching learned that precious lesson in real sportmanship. I could go on, like describing the Rev. Jackie Kyle's try for Ireland at Cardiff Arms Park but I've taken-up enough time and space. Thanks, John Hickey | |
TOP | |
1514 | 1 November 2000 15:07 |
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 15:07:00 +0000
Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk
Sender:
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Ir-D And Yet More on Garryowen
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <1312884591.0Ad8f1040.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk>
[IR-DLOG0011.txt] | |
Ir-D And Yet More on Garryowen | |
Elizabeth Malcolm | |
From: Elizabeth Malcolm
Subject: Garryowen Dear Paddy, Just to further complicate the question of the meaning of the word Garryowen, my copy of Share's dictionary of Irish slang tells me that the Irish army - specifically in Lebanon in the late 1990s - used the word to mean 'a state of alert'. As a long-time rugby fan I was aware of the word meaning a high kick forward, although I don't think it's used in Australian rugby. I only recollect hearing it in Ireland and England and I understood it derived from a Limerick rugby club called Garryowen. When and why I don't know. Is (was) there such a club? As for the music, I certainly recognise its connection with the 7th cavalry. Fans of Errol Flynn films will know it features prominently in his film about Custer. I haven't seen the film in a long time, but I think it's called 'They died with their boots on'! Am I right? (Very strange title. Presumably it's more heroic not to have your boots stolen before death in a battle, even if it happens after. However, Flynn I gather was famous at one time for keeping his sox on! Maybe the title was some sort of joke about that.) Again, if I recollect rightly, in the film it is an English army officer who teaches Custer the tune. But I can't remember the details. Anyway, to be honest, I still remain baffled. Where did the music come from? What does the name mean? Does it have a particular Limerick connection? Why did Custer adopt it? And how did the rugby association arise? Elizabeth Malcolm Melbourne Professor Elizabeth Malcolm tel 03-8344 3924 Department of History fax 03-8344 7894 University of Melbourne Parkville Victoria, 3010 Australia email e.malcolm[at]history.unimelb.edu.au | |
TOP | |
1515 | 1 November 2000 22:07 |
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 22:07:00 +0000
Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk
Sender:
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Ir-D And, Yes, Garryowen
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <1312884591.c70e7B81046.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk>
[IR-DLOG0011.txt] | |
Ir-D And, Yes, Garryowen | |
peter c holloran | |
From: peter c holloran
Subject: Re: Ir-D And Yet More on Garryowen General Custer did adopt Garry Owen as the theme song for his 7th Cavalry, but I don't think there is any clear reason why. He simply liked it? In the film, They Died with Their Boots on, he did learn the song from an Englishman in the US Army but that may be an movie fact rather than historical. Peter Holloran New England Historical Association | |
TOP | |
1516 | 1 November 2000 22:08 |
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 22:08:00 +0000
Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk
Sender:
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Ir-D Garryowen Encouragement
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <1312884591.11FDFE1043.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk>
[IR-DLOG0011.txt] | |
Ir-D Garryowen Encouragement | |
Subject: Re: Ir-D 'Garryowen'
From: Eileen A Sullivan B Let me know if you find the connection between the tune and whatever. E Dr. Eileen A. Sullivan, Director The Irish Educational Association, Inc. Tel # (352) 332 3690 6412 NW 128th Street E-Mail : eolas1[at]juno.com Gainesville, FL 32653 | |
TOP | |
1517 | 1 November 2000 22:10 |
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 22:10:00 +0000
Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk
Sender:
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Ir-D Irish in New Zealand
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <1312884591.34061047.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk>
[IR-DLOG0011.txt] | |
Ir-D Irish in New Zealand | |
Lyndon Fraser | |
From: Lyndon Fraser
Subject: New Publication on the Irish in New Zealand Dear Paddy, List members might be interested in a recently published volume of essays on the Irish in New Zealand. The literature on the diaspora in this part of the world is rather thin and we do not even appear in the Irish Empire series (perhaps the producers thought we were part of Australia!!). Don Akenson hoists a few of his trademark 'garryowens' in the opening essay . . . Not sure what you can include from the press release - perhaps the contents, title & ISBN are most important. Best wishes, Lyndon Fraser MEDIA RELEASE New Perspectives on the Irish in New Zealand A Distant Shore Irish Migration and New Zealand Settlement Edited by Lyndon Fraser ISBN 1 877133 97 3, 192 pages, $39.95, published October 2000 A new book about New Zealand's Irish heritage offers the view that colonial New Zealand was more multicultural than we have been led to believe. Eight writers - most of Irish descent - have contributed to the book, titled A Distant Shore: Irish Migration and New Zealand Settlement. The book is edited by Lyndon Fraser, a sociology lecturer at the University of Canterbury. According to Dr Fraser, "A Distant Shore moves us towards a multicultural, more inclusive history of New Zealand." It focuses on Irish migration in the nineteenth and early twentieth century, making new research accessible to the general reader. In the first chapter, Don Akenson argues that biculturalism is an inadequate framework with which to view the past. This theme surfaces throughout the book as the contributors illustrate cultural differences among Irish migrants and within colonial society. Akenson also places New Zealand Irish in the context of the worldwide Irish diaspora. An internationally celebrated scholar in the field of Irish Studies, Patrick O'Farrell, explores the complex nature of 'Irishness', how it developed and how it has been defined in New Zealand. Alasdair Galbraith rediscovers the 'invisible' but influential Irish Protestant tradition in colonial New Zealand, revealing the prejudices against Catholics, and how Protestant migration was encouraged. By analysing information from passenger lists and death registers, Terry Hearn constructs a composite profile of Irish migrants: their origins in Ireland, their occupations, where they settled, their age, sex and marital status, contrasting these with statistics on the English, Scots and Welsh. Strong connections with the Irish on the Australian goldfields are revealed in the book, particularly in Terry Hearn's chapter on the Irish in the Otago goldfields, and in a chapter on Irish migration to the West Coast by Lyndon Fraser. These two chapters also highlight regional variations in migration patterns. Angela McCarthy looks at migrant women's letters, which offer a personal glimpse into how these women from a variety of backgrounds adjusted to their new environments. She shows the critical importance of kinship links for Irish women, with family in Ireland as well as family in New Zealand and across the Tasman, using personal letters as one of her sources. No book on the Irish would be complete without a mention of politics. Seán Brosnahan explores Irish issues in New Zealand politics from 1916-1922, looking at the changing views on Irish nationalism sparked by the 1916 Easter Rising in Dublin. He also discusses conscription issues, and gives fresh insight into Irish support for the emerging Labour Party. In the final chapter, Rory Sweetman portrays the organisation and development of the Hibernian Australasian Catholic Benefit society in New Zealand, and offers an account of Hibernian responses to political events in Ireland. A Distant Shore provides an excellent overview of Irish migration to New Zealand. It will be of interest to people with Irish ancestry, genealogists, and to anyone with an interest in New Zealand history. All royalties from the book will be donated to the New Zealand Child Cancer Foundation Inc. Contents: 1 No Petty People: Pakeha History and the Historiography of the Irish Diaspora, Don Akenson, 2 Varieties of New Zealand Irishness: A Meditation, Patrick O'Farrell, 3 The Invisible Irish? Re-Discovering the Irish Protestant Tradition in Colonial New Zealand, Alasdair Galbraith, 4 Irish Migration to New Zealand to 1915, Terry Hearn, 5 The Irish on the Otago Goldfields 1861-1871, Terry Hearn, 6 Irish Migration to the West Coast, Lyndon Fraser, 7 'In Prospect of a Happier Future: Private Letters and Irish Women's Migration, Angela McCarthy, 8 'Shaming the Shoneens': The Green Ray and the Maoriland Irish Society in Dunedin 1916-1922, Sean Brosnahan, 9 'The Importance of Being Irish': Hibernianism in New Zealand, 1869-1969, Rory Sweetman. The Contributors Don Akenson, Professor of History, Queen's University, Kingston, Ontario, Beamish Professor of Irish Studies, University of Liverpool; Sean Brosnahan, Curator of Social History, Otago Settlers Museum; Lyndon Fraser, Lecturer, Sociology Dept, University of Canterbury; Alasdair Galbraith, Auckland-based historian; Terry Hearn, Historian, Historical Branch, Ministry of Culture & Heritage; Angela McCarthy, PhD student, Trinity College, Dublin; Patrick O'Farrell, Emeritus Scientia Professor of History, University of New South Wales; internationally celebrated Irish Studies scholar; Rory Sweetman, freelance historian A Distant Shore Irish Migration and New Zealand Settlement Edited by Lyndon Fraser ISBN 1 877133 97 3, 192 pages, $39.95, published October 2000 - -- Lyndon Fraser Lecturer Department of Sociology University of Canterbury Private Bag 4800 Christchurch New Zealand tel: 64-3-3667001 extn. 7102 http://www.soci.canterbury.ac.nz/staff-lf.htm | |
TOP | |
1518 | 1 November 2000 22:17 |
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 22:17:00 +0000
Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk
Sender:
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Ir-D Garryowen For Ever
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <1312884591.2ffD83a71045.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk>
[IR-DLOG0011.txt] | |
Ir-D Garryowen For Ever | |
Brian McGinn | |
From: "Brian McGinn"
Subject: Re: Garryowen Since I started this, I suppose there's nothing to do now but head for the local video store and hum along with the Custer portrayals by Errol Flynn in 'They Died With Their Boots On' (1941), Richard Mulligan in 'Little Big Man' (1970). Maybe even Ronald Reagan in 'Santa Fe Trail' (1940). During the U.S. Civil War, in which Custer also served, boots were scarce and prized possessions. In 'A Harvest of Death', Timothy O'Sullivan's classic photograph of the Union dead at Gettysburg, the corpses are all bootless. Although, like the Little Bighorn, I'd assume these soldiers also died with their boots on, perhaps there was some sense in which bootlessness connoted surrender while booted implied fighting to the last bullet/breath? Logically, this doesn't make much sense--if the end result in each case was bare feet. Garryowen is in Limerick. The name derives from the Irish words meaning 'Eoghan's garden'. I don't know which Owen/Eugene it's named after. There's another Garryowen, a tiny settlement astride Interstate 90 in Montana. This one is clearly associated with the June 1876 events at the nearby Custer Battlefield National Monument. Revisiting Ken Power's immense store of knowledge on regimental traditions, I find the following reference to the march 'Garryowen': "Although played by the Irish War Pipes for centuries, it only came into prominence in the outside world after it was heard in an English pantomime called 'Harlequin Amulet' which was produced in 1800." Brian Pohanka, in his already mentioned series on Myles Keogh of the 7th Cavalry, quoted the following from Charles Lever's 'Charles O'Malley, the Irish Dragoon' (Dublin, 1841): Now I like Garryowen When I hear it at home But it's not half so sweet When you're going to be kilt. Brian McGinn Alexandria, Virginia | |
TOP | |
1519 | 1 November 2000 22:18 |
Date: Wed, 1 Nov 2000 22:18:00 +0000
Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk
Sender:
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Ir-D Garryowen, Iowa and Dakota
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <1312884591.ccfBBacD1044.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk>
[IR-DLOG0011.txt] | |
Ir-D Garryowen, Iowa and Dakota | |
Kerby Miller | |
From: Kerby Miller
Subject: Re: Ir-D 'Garryowen' 7 A number of years ago, I was doing research on a pre-Civil War Irish settlement in Iowa called Garryowen. Later the name was transferred to the SE tip of South Dakota as some of the early Irish settlers migrated further westward, there joined by newcomers from Kerry, Limerick, etc. At the time I was interested in the name's origins. The various sources I examined (memoirs by old residents, etc.) suggested that Garryowen had been a popular fair or meeting ground just outside the old city walls, if I remember correctly. However, from somewhere I also had the impression that there was some kind of connection with the Siege of Limerick. I'll be indebted, also, if anyone can shed any light on this topic. Perhaps these bits of information (however [un]reliable) may spark someone else's memory? Sincerely, Kerby Miller. | |
TOP | |
1520 | 2 November 2000 07:05 |
Date: Thu, 2 Nov 2000 07:05:00 +0000
Reply-To: irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk
Sender:
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Ir-D Book Advice 2
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-ID: <1312884591.6eE1f1251048.5704[at]bradford.ac.uk>
[IR-DLOG0011.txt] | |
Ir-D Book Advice 2 | |
jamesam@mail.con2.com (gary and patricia jameson-sammartano) | |
From: jamesam[at]mail.con2.com (gary and patricia jameson-sammartano)
Subject: Re: Ir-D USA Immigration History Book Advice Tom, How about Woodham-Smith's The Great Hunger? Or perhaps Kerby Miller's Out of Ireland(for undergrads, it is a wide survey,and you have the opportunity of showing the video with the book)? Or anything by Christine Keneally? I'll look at my bookshelf for others. Slán, Patricia >From: "Thomas J. Archdeacon" >Subject: Book Advice > >Dear List Members: > >I want to request your advice about a book to assign on Irish >emigration/immigration around the time of the Famine. The course is a >survey >of US Immigration History. I currently use Bob Scally's book, which I like >because it discusses origins as well as outcomes. The undergraduate >scholars >who trust their minds to me, however, find the book too hard to read. That, >of >course, says more about them than about the book, but I am willing to >consider >alternatives. I can't use Kerby Miller -- too long for my purposes; at >another >extreme, Paddy's Lament also fails to fit the bill. Please don't suggest a >set >of articles; I sometimes use those, but the students currently prefer whole >books. > >As you can tell, I'm feeling a bit of frustration. Thanks, however, for >whatever suggestions you can offer. > >Tom Patricia Jameson- and Gary Sammartano | |
TOP |