From: jmcgurk[at]tinet.ie
Subject: Re: Ir-D Crisis + Crisis

Dear Paddy,

The F & M crisis also affects movement south to north in
Ireland as well.I had to cancel launching a book 'Glimpses of Carrickmore' -
a familial history of the village of Carrickmore and of the Termonmagurk
parish.It should have some interest among the McGurk diaspora-its a book of
locally produced essays on every aspect of life there- not merely the
historical.The Mayo sheep are in good order but like Patrick Maume I would
not survive here if I brought back the disease from Tyrone to Mayo.
Best wishes
John McGurk


>
>
- ----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 06:00
Subject: Ir-D Crisis + Crisis


>
> From Email Patrick O'Sullivan
>
> Patrick Maume's St. Patrick's Day greeting reminds me that we should
> acknowledge some crises, which impinge, directly or indirectly, on our
work.
>
> The foot and mouth crisis in England, Scotland and Wales is much discussed
> in the media and on the Web - we need not go into the story, and the
> technicalities, here. And some of the discoveries now made public are a
bit
> of a shock to all of us who eat food.
>
> The disease made it across to France and to the island of Ireland in live
> sheep - the circumstances in which it makes economic sense to bulk import
> livestock INTO Ireland are hard to imagine. Apparently, allegedly, it was
> part of some scam. The disease seems to be under control in Northern
> Ireland, and as yet no cases have been reported in the Republic of
Ireland.
>
> But, of course, all our farming friends and relations in Ireland are
living
> in fear. Farming forms a far greater proportion of economic life in
Ireland
> than it does in Britain. The disease controls have knock-on effects on
> tourism, in all its forms. As Patrick Maume reported.
>
> I was going to take my younger boy, Jake, to Ireland in April - for a
riding
> holiday. (To everyone's surprise he has turned into an enthusiastic
> horseman - it has all been wonderful for his confidence, and has taught
him
> how to learn. And I thought it would be really good for just the two of
us
> to go to Ireland together.) We have now had to cancel our holiday -
> horse-riding being just one of the holiday activities affected by
controls.
> And, of course, we would not want even the slightest suspicion that we
might
> bring the disease with us to Ireland - on our boots, on our car wheels.
>
> Meanwhile, people who follow political events in Northern Ireland will be
> familiar with that odd mixture of impasse and progress there. Those who
> include violence as part of their political repertoire remain active - and
> only the most recent manifestation of that was a faction's bomb outside
the
> BBC television building in London. Normally I would not comment on these
> things - but I am in the middle of a research project on the needs of
Irish
> people in Britain...
>
> P.O'S.
>
>

From: Kevin Kenny
Subject: Re: Ir-D Query re book 'Irish Migrants in Modern Britain'

>From Kevin Kenny, kennyka[at]bc.edu

Re Don MacRaild's book:

I would like to use the book in a future (post)graduate
readings course on the Irish worldwide. That would mean 12
to 15 sales annually. I could also potentially use it in
undergraduate courses of about three times that number but
for for the present that would be impractical due to
curricular demands and structure.

At the least, I would be willing to join others in signing
a letter to St. Martin's/Palgrave (?).

KK

----------------------
Kevin Kenny
Associate Professor of History
Department of History, Boston College
140 Commonwealth Avenue, Chestnut Hill, MA 02467
Phone(617)552-1196; Fax(617)552-3714; kennyka[at]bc.edu
www2.bc.edu/~kennyka/

The following item has been brought to our attention...

'WE'RE ALL IRISH NOW' by Brendan O'Neill
'St Who's Day?'

The article is from 'SPIKED', a new London based on-line Review. And
contains links to two further
articles that will (our source believes) be of interest.

It can be accessed at:

http://www.spiked-online.com/Articles/000000005523.htm

P.O'S.

From: Don MacRaild
Subject: Irish Migrants in Modern Britain, 1750-1922


Dear all
I wonder if there is an American market for the
book I produced two years ago?
Donald MacRaild
Irish Migrants in Modern Britain, 1750-1922

The reason I ask is because my publisher has asked me.
In 1999, when the book first appeared, I was
surprised to learn that Macmillan (as Palgrave
then was) had only pushed 200 extortionately
- -price hard-back copies on to the American
market through St Martin's Press. They
were sold quickly and then St Martin's
refused to entertain the idea of taking
paperback copies. This caused one or two
of you to send me emails to the effect:
how can our students buy this book?

Anyway, I am really writing here to see if
there is any point trying to get paperbacks
into distribution over there. What I would
need to know is approximately how many
of you think your students might use it
and how many of them might buy it.

A crude survey, I know, but if it would be
of use on Irish Studies programs out there,
I'd like to try to facilitate that

Do rest assured on one point: there
is no money in the American market
for an author whose publisher does the
negotiating. Many of you out there will
know this from bitter experience!

Perhaps respondents might email
me direct so as to avoid clogging up
the list (unless the social scientist
in Paddy O'Sullivan would prefer a
live census)

Cheers

Don MacRaild
don.macraild[at]unn.ac.uk

From: Don MacRaild
Subject: Irish myths--work


I couldn't help being drawn into this one. Paddy's right that
there isn't much evidence of the Irish being used by
plantation owners, etc., to clear dangerous ground,
although there is some, and it may well have happened.

Building railways is a different matter, however. When a
railway was run through a place it put hitherto unimaginable
pressures on local labour markets. Chinese 'coolies',
indigenous farm labourers, Irish navvies, and just about
every other class, category and ethnic group could've
found work if they had wanted it. Railway work was
generally quite well paid. According to English legend
it took a year to turn a mere agricultural labourer
into the sort of navvy who could consume eight pints
of beer and four pounds of beef per day. Thomas
Brassey, who built railways in Britain, Russia, France
and (I believe) Canada eschewed what he called
'coolie' labour. He is supposed to have paid his
workers well and, in Britain at least, the Irish
were a significant chunk of those whom he employed.
The Irish were very good at building railways, and it
wasn't all to do with strong backs. Parts of the work
- --blasting, cutting, excavating--were dangerous
and skilled. Most of all, though, it was about
opportunity and pay rates.

How exactly we balance the image
of Irish labour from this one, I'm not sure. On the
one hand, the money was good; on the other,
the work was dangerous.

Even in the 1890s, though,
it was the old navvying cultures that were
producing the sort of men--many Irish, some sons
of migrants--who could dig docks and transform
waterfronts in a flash. And I remember a
radio reminiscence some years ago
from a old tunnel 'miner' who
reckoned that English contractors held
various records in the 1960s for tunnel boring
because (a) the money was great (b) the men
were paid piece-rates and (c) most of the
men were Irish.

Cheers


Don MacRaild


> -----Original Message-----
> From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk [SMTP:irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 6:00 AM
> To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
> Subject: Ir-D Kudos to Cassidy 3
>
>
> From: Gary A. Richardson
> garmam[at]mindspring.com]
> Subject: Re: Ir-D Kudos to Cassidy 2
>
>
> Recognizing the possibility that this too is merely repetition of the myth
> in
> another context, there was a reference in the documentary _The Irish in
> America_ that the Irish in New Orleans post-1845 were often hired work on
> levees and other public projects by wealthy plantation owners who were
> unwilling
> to risk their slaves. While not so grand a scheme as your railroad
> hypothesis,
> day-labor substitutions do seem quite plausible.
>
> best,
>
> gary a. richardson
>
> irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk wrote:
>
> > >From Email Patrick O'Sullivan
> >
> > Without wishing to add to the lenghtening list of 'myths' about the
> Irish
> > Diaspora...
> >
> > What evidence do we actually have that southern US slave-owners
> preferred
> to
> > use Irish labourers for dangerous jobs? The only source for this that I
> can
> > think of is Frederick Law Olmstead, whose book was (I think) first
> published
> > in 1856, and where the suggestion is retailed as hearsay anecdote - 'I
> have
> > heard it said', or words to that effect.
> >
> > Do we have - ooh, for example - a case study of a bid to build a
> railway,
> > with one contractor putting in a slave-owner's bid, and another
> contractor
> > putting in an Irish navvy bid, and the second bid being the cheaper?
> >
> > P.O'S.

This review appeared in Familia: Ulster Genealogical Review, No. 16, 2000,
87-92, and is displayed here, on the Irish-Diaspora list, through the
courtesy of its author, Dr. Brian Lambkin.

Copyright remains with the author, whose permission should be sought for any
further use of this review.

P.O'S.


The Encyclopedia of the Irish in America, edited by Michael Glazier,
University of Notre Dame Press, Notre Dame, Indiana, 1999, pp 988
www.undpress.nd.edu


The times seem to be propitious for the publishing of encylopaedias and
similar works of reference in Irish studies. We have recently had the Oxford
Companion to Irish History. In preparation by Gill and Macmillan is the
Encyclopedia of Ireland and by Glucksman Ireland House The Irish in America
Desk Reference Book. Whatever their qualities, the achievement of The
Encyclopedia of the Irish in America places all who are interested in the
Irish abroad and at home heavily in the debt of the editor, Michael Glazier,
and his team of 243 contributors. This handsomely produced volume of almost
a thousand pages is set to become an indispensable gateway and guide to
Irish migration studies.

Perhaps the first thing to say about it from a Northern Ireland perspective
is that Irish America means both Protestants and Catholics. The first
paragraph of the first entry, 'Achievement of the Irish in America', sets
the tone:

There were in fact two major Irish immigrations to America, the first for
the most part completed before the Civil War and disproportionately to the
South and the second completed for the most part before the First World War.
The descendants of the first immigration are at the present time mostly
Protestant and tend to live in the rural and southern regions of the
country. The second are mostly Catholic and tend to live in the northern and
urban regions of the country.

This inclusive approach makes doubly welcome the appearance of this book.
Not only is it the first encyclopaedia of its kind, it also confirms for a
general readership the sea-change that has been underway for some time in
the way that we think about Irish America. Although not all have yet
understood the message, professional historical writing has been steadily
moving public perception away from seeing Irish America as an exclusively
Catholic, post-Famine phenomenon. This way of seeing is grounded in the
1850s when 'Scotch-Irish' became a more common term as the Know-Nothing
party and other prejudices caused Protestants of Irish origin to set
themselves apart from an Irish-America which was redefining itself as
Catholic. The inclusive presentation that we have here is much more in
keeping with the re-thinking of Irishness that has been going on in the
homeland, not least in connection with the peace process in Northern
Ireland. If one needs convincing of the major significance of this, see
Donald Akenson's article on 'Irish Migration to North America, 1800-1920' in
The Irish Diaspora, edited by Andy Bielenberg for the Irish Centre for
Migration Studies at University College, Cork (Pearson Education Limited,
2000).

Responsibility for the opening article that sets out the Encyclopedia's
commitment to inclusiveness falls to Andrew Greeley, the well-known Catholic
sociologist. His comment about many Americans still being astonished to find
that there are more Irish Protestants in the country than Irish Catholics
(more than 5% of Americans are Irish Protestant, and a little less than 5%
of all Americans are Irish Catholic) could still be applied to many in
Ireland. It is therefore refreshing to have the issue of Irish Protestant
immigration and identity addressed up front. Greeley indicates its
complexity by identifying four distinct Protestant immigration streams. The
first is that of the so-called 'Scotch-Irish', most of who came to America
before the beginning of the nineteenth century (and who claim more
presidents than any other American group) and settled especially in the
South. The second is that of Southern Protestants (many of whom have Gaelic
rather than English surnames) who are the descendants of Irish townsfolk who
converted to Protestantism in penal times and migrated to America before
1850. The third stream is descended from rural Irish Catholics who had only
a thin connection to the Church and lost that connection shortly after their
immigration to the United States before the Famine. The fourth, much smaller
stream is that of the Huguenot Irish (especially into Delaware before the
Revolutionary War) who became the first Methodists in the United States.
Irish Protestants in America, concludes Greeley, 'seem to be a disparate
group composed of peoples with different histories and different motives for
leaving Ireland.' Because of the difficulty of estimating what proportion of
them are the descendants of the Scotch-Irish, of the 'Celtic' townsfolk and
or rural day labourers, he says, 'one lumps them together in analysis merely
because one has no choice.'

A delight in using the Encyclopedia is that a reader less than content with
the finality of such an assessment is cross-referred to further articles.
What more is known of the fortunes of the Ulster-Scots or Scotch Irish, for
example, can be pursued in the excellent major essays (with excellent
bibliographies) on 'Emigration: 17th and 18th Centuries' by Trevor Parkhill,
on 'Scotch-Irish and American Politics' by Leroy Eid, on 'Scots Irish or
Scotch-Irish' by David Noel Doyle, or 'The Eagle Wing and Presbyterian
Emigrants' by James Doan. Altogether there are almost fifty essays. Some
deal with specialist topics such as 'Music of the Early Exiles', 'Canals and
the Irish Involvement' and 'Irish-American Scientists'. The inclusion of a
fascinating essay on 'Travelers, Irish: A Unique Community' by Rita Kinch is
an example of just how energetic the editor has been in his effort to ensure
a comprehensive picture. Other essays are grouped under broad headings. Two
of these are 'Ireland' and 'Emigration'. The aim here is to provide access
to a background knowledge of Ireland's history which in turn is an entrée to
a better understanding of the Irish in America. So, for example, the reader
is provided with a 15,000 word entry 'Ireland: 1798-1998' together with
cluster of other historical articles such as 'Ireland: Plantations
1548-1700' by Raymond Gillespie, 'Ireland: Nineteenth-Century Primary
Education' by John Coolahan, and 'Ireland: Partition' by J. J. Lee. In
addition to Trevor Parkhill's article under the broad heading of
'Emigration' there are others by David Fitzpatrick, J. J. Lee, Mary
Corcoran, and Mary Elizabeth Brown. Since the editor has left his
contributor's 'free to express their opinions without any constraint', the
result is a stimulating contrast of styles and a potentially instructive
contrast where an area of interest of two different contributors happens to
overlap.

The innovative feature in which the Encyclopedia takes most pride, and
justifiably so, is the provision of individual entries on each of the fifty
states and major cities. As the editor observes in his Introduction:

Writers usually treat the Irish in America on a regional basis; but too
often they give scant notice to states like West Virginia, Mississippi, New
Mexico, Oregon, the Dakotas or New Hampshire. Surprisingly, individual
articles on the Irish in most of the states had not been written before now,
and the entries illustrate the great diversity of the Irish-American
experience.

In order to facilitate access to that diversity, entries are arranged
alphabetically, rather than thematically, and supported with
cross-references and bibliographies as a springboard for further reading or
research. Apart from the essays on themes, places and things, the bulk of
the Encyclopedia is made up of individual biographical entries - almost 600
of them. Taken as a whole, the entries constitute an anatomy of
Irish-America. What then does their selection tell us about the shape and
character of Irish-America?

First of all, with regard to shape, the entries make clear that
Irish-America means the United States, not North America as a whole.
Although a major essay by Brian Clarke on 'Canadian Irish / American Irish'
is included, only four of the 243 contributors are from Canada. The
opportunity has not been taken to extend the concept of Irish-America to
include Canada by giving it a similarly detailed treatment, state by state
and major city by city. Given the amount of space available in a single
volume and the need to keep the project within manageable bounds, this might
seem an unreasonable expectation. In this connection, however, it does at
the least seem strange that no separate entry has been given to discussion
of the term 'diaspora', which many contributors use freely. As Donald
Akenson has argued persuasively, the Irish Diaspora is an entire phenomenon
and no part of it can be properly understood without reference to the
others. Perhaps the increasingly inclusive view of Irish America needs
another opportunity to become still more inclusive.

If the shape of Irish America is contained by the United States, then what
of the individual men and women selected to delineate its sinews and bones?
Biographical entries are given for 591 individuals. Their distribution over
time is uneven. Counted roughly according the main century in which they
lived, only 48 (8%) lived in the eighteenth century or earlier. A larger
proportion (28%) lived in the nineteenth century, while the majority (64%)
lived in the twentieth century, or are still alive in the twenty-first. As
might be expected, the gender balance is also uneven. Only one woman (Ann
Glover, widow and martyr, died 1688) is given for the eighteenth century or
earlier (2%). The proportion rises to 10% for the nineteenth century and to
22% for the twentieth and twenty-first centuries.

Sorting the individuals roughly under the headings of 'political'
(statesmen, state legislator, mayor, political leader, labor organizer etc);
'economic' (businessman, entrepreneur, banker, engineer, bootlegger etc);
'social' (physician, educator, journalist, philanthropist, boxer, baseball
celebrity etc); 'religious' (clergyman, priest, bishop, archbishop, cardinal
etc); and 'artistic' (author, writer, poet, playwright, cartoonist,
sculptor, tenor etc) gives an impression of how well balanced the
Encyclopedia is in its coverage. Taking them all together, 27% of the
biographical entries might be classed as 'political', 10% as 'economic', 22%
as 'social', 17% as 'religious' and 24% as 'artistic'. Given how successful
the Irish have been economically in America, the relatively high degree of
attention given to artists and entertainers might annoy some, but this
feature enhances the enjoyment of the general reader for whom the names of
film stars have a higher recognition factor than captains of industry. It
also helps to redress a bias towards the political and economic which is
traditional in works of this kind. The eye of the browser may be caught by
Brosnan, Pierce, actor; Chandler, Raymond Thornton, author; Crosby, Bing,
singer, actor; Connolly, Maureen Catherine, tennis player; Dempsey, Jack,
boxer; Dorsey, Thomas, Francis ("Tommy"), musician; Fitzgerald, Barry,
actor; Flatley, Michael, dancer; Garland, Judy, actress; Hogan, Ben, golfer;
Keaton, Buster, actor, comedian; Kelly, Grace, actress; McCourt, Frank,
author; McDermott, Alice, novelist; Montague, Patrick, poet; O'Banion
(Charles) Dion, gangster; O'Hara, Maureen, actress; Peck, Gregory, actor;
Wayne, John, actor, and many others.

Viewed across three centuries, the proportion of men in the 'political' and
'religious' classes declines. Combined they account for 75% of biographical
entries for the eighteenth century. They are still a majority (53%) for the
nineteenth century but for the twentieth century they are a minority (43%).
The 'social' class increases from 9% for the eighteenth century to 22% for
the nineteenth century and remains constant (20%) for the twentieth century.
The fortune of the 'economic' class fluctuates, starting at 11% for the
eighteenth century, increasing to 18% for the nineteenth century, and then
declining to 8% for the twentieth century. The most dramatic increase is in
the 'artistic' class. From a base of 6% (3 men) in the eighteenth century
the proportion stays constant in the nineteenth century at 8% (12 men), and
then jumps to 30% (86 men) for the twentieth century.

The pattern for women is markedly different. In the eighteenth century they
do not feature at all. In the nineteenth century the 'social', 'religious'
and 'artistic' classes combined account for all the women (with none in the
'political' and 'economic' classes). But 8 of the 84 women listed for the
twentieth century may be classed as 'political' and 1 (Cleary, Catherine,
corporate director) as 'economic'. The real breakthrough for the women of
Irish America in the twentieth century comes in the 'social' and 'artistic'
fields where they constitute 32% of the biographical entries. (Women are
slightly less well represented on the team of contributors to the
Encyclopedia at 28%!)

The biographical entries are complemented for the most part by portrait
illustrations. Other illustrations include general scenes and documents.
There are some tables and graphs. Regrettably, maps are few and far between
and mostly on the small size. The reader with difficulty in visualising,
say, the Philadelphia - Pittsburgh axis, might have been better served by a
more generous provision in this respect. Altogether there are 298
illustrations, which makes for a generous average of one illustration every
three pages and enhances the pleasure of browsing. The magnitude of this
aspect of the project alone is brought home by the realisation that the
images are taken from 129 different archives or collections. Interestingly,
the Boston Library Print Department and the University of Notre Dame
Archives have been relied on for almost a third of the total. This reflects
the stable from which the Encyclopedia comes. Although it is true that the
contributors are ' a distinguished group of writers from America, Ireland,
Canada and England', the large majority of them (90%) come from the United
States. As noted above only four are from Canada, sixteen are from the
Republic of Ireland, two are from Northern Ireland (Frank D'Arcy as well as
Trevor Parkhill) and two are from England.

Certain institutions of Irish American studies are given entries of their
own, including the American Conference for Irish Studies, the American Irish
Historical Society, the Center for Irish Studies at the University of St
Thomas in St Paul, Minnesota and the Irish American Cultural Institute.
Also, certain leading scholars of Irish American studies are given entries
of their own such as Denis Clark, Jay P. Dolan, Dorothy Dohen, James
Donnelly Jr, John Tracy Ellis, Doris Goodwin, Emmet Larkin, Kathleen
Sullivan and James P. Walsh. There is a helpful article on 'Irish Studies in
the U.S.' by Maureen Murphy, who has a separate biographical entry devoted
to her. Indeed, several other contributors are accorded this honour,
including Andrew Greeley (University of Chicago), Patrick Blessing
(Bloomington, Indiana), David Emmons (University of Montana, Missoula),
Charles Fanning (Southern Illinois University, Carbondale), Gerald Fogarty
(University of Virginia, Charlottesville), Lawrence McCaffrey (Evanston,
Illinois), Kerby Miller (University of Missouri, Columbia), Janet Nolan
(Evanston, Illinois) and Thomas Redshaw (Center for Irish Studies, St Paul,
Minnesota). While eyebrows may be raised about who has and has not been
included in this respect, having these entries as well as everything else
gives the reader both useful information and an insight into the dynamics of
Irish studies in the United States which gave rise to this volume.

A final distinctive feature worth noting is a pioneering collection of
essays clustered under the heading of 'Ethnic Relations'. These include:
'The African-Americans and the Irish', 'The Germans and the Irish', 'The
Jews and the Irish', and 'The Poles and the Irish'. Just as Akenson has
argued that the different parts of the Irish Diaspora cannot be fully
understood in isolation from each other, so the Irish cannot be fully
understood in isolation from other ethnic groups, particularly those with
whom they had most contact. These essays will greatly facilitate the growth
of comparative studies, placing users of this magnificent book - general
readers and students of Irish migration studies alike - further in debt to
Michael Glazier and his team. It will be many years before they have
anything more inclusive at their disposal.


Brian K. Lambkin
Centre for Migration Studies at the Ulster-American Folk Park, Omagh


B K Lambkin (Dr)
Director
Centre for Migration Studies
Ulster American Folk Park
Omagh, Co. Tyrone
Northern Ireland
BT78 5QY
Tel: 028 8225 6315
Fax: 028 8224 2241
Websites: www.qub.ac.uk/cms/ and
www.folkpark.com

From: oliver[at]doyle-marshall.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: Ir-D Query re book 'Irish Migrants in Modern Britain'


Dear Don,

What a familar tale.....

Late last year Palgrave (aka Macmillan/St Martin's Press) published a book
that I edited - "English-Speaking Communities in Latin America".
Although there wasn't a penny to be gained by me personally, I was pleased
(on behalf of the contributors) to be told that the book would be produced
in both paperback as well as Palgrave's usual absurdly-priced hardback
version. I was later surprised to be informed by someone in the US that
only the hardback is available in North America. As a marketing decision,
this seemed to me absolutely absurd as the market for material in English
concerning Latin America is essentially the United States, a country where
even the smallest of college has some form of Latin American Studies
programme. I've approached Palgrave (London) on this several times but
their way of dealing with me is to basically ignore me - "we're taking this
up with New York".

All that I can suggest is that you tell anyone who may be remotely
interested in purchasing a paperback edition of your book that this can be
easily done through www.amazon.co.uk. Note: amazon.com won't list the
p/b - and my experience is that it rarely occurs to Americans to check out
amazon's uk site.

Good luck,

Oliver Marshall



>From: Don MacRaild
>Subject: Irish Migrants in Modern Britain, 1750-1922
>
>
>Dear all
>I wonder if there is an American market for the
>book I produced two years ago?
>Donald MacRaild
>Irish Migrants in Modern Britain, 1750-1922
>
>The reason I ask is because my publisher has asked me.
>In 1999, when the book first appeared, I was
>surprised to learn that Macmillan (as Palgrave
>then was) had only pushed 200 extortionately
>-price hard-back copies on to the American
>market through St Martin's Press. They
>were sold quickly and then St Martin's
>refused to entertain the idea of taking
>paperback copies. This caused one or two
>of you to send me emails to the effect:
>how can our students buy this book?
>
>Anyway, I am really writing here to see if
>there is any point trying to get paperbacks
>into distribution over there. What I would
>need to know is approximately how many
>of you think your students might use it
>and how many of them might buy it.
>
>A crude survey, I know, but if it would be
>of use on Irish Studies programs out there,
>I'd like to try to facilitate that
>
>Do rest assured on one point: there
>is no money in the American market
>for an author whose publisher does the
>negotiating. Many of you out there will
>know this from bitter experience!
>
>Perhaps respondents might email
>me direct so as to avoid clogging up
>the list (unless the social scientist
>in Paddy O'Sullivan would prefer a
>live census)
>
>Cheers
>
>Don MacRaild
>don.macraild[at]unn.ac.uk

From: "Bruce Stewart"
Subject: Re: Ir-D Eirdata

Friends,

In response to frustration felt with the Registration process on the
EIRData front page I have decided to eliminate this stage and
hence rejig the site so that new arrivals proceed straight from the
Front Page to the archives on clicking an 'I Agree' button following
our disclaimers. I hope this is to everyone's liking.

Until this change is installed a little later on this month, the
procedure is thus. Start at http://www.pgil-eirdata.org. To reach the
archives you must now Register a username and password. You
do this by clicking Register on the Front Page and following the
registration process through.

First you are asked to agree to our conditions ('I agree'). Then you
are asked to provide yourself with a username and password
('Register'. Then you are asked to jot down several details such as
email, profession, age category, gender ('Submit'). After that, you
return to the Front Page. Now where click Logon and use your
username and password that you have selected.

The easiest user/password is obviously the first eight letters of your
name. I am 'bruceste'. I use this for username and password so
there is less chance of forgetting. (Okay, I'm really shirleyt but
don't tell anybody.) If you click 'remember' on your password menu,
Windows will remember these details for you. Only when you are
at another machine will you have to enter them again.

In the period Oct-March while the registration process was in place
more than 2,600 users entered the site and left email and other
details. This represents an extraordinary amount of interest in the
study area and the a resource such as this one.

EIRdata chiefly comprises information accumulated over ten years
and is designed to support daily updating from current biographical,
bibliographical and critical records. I am highly conscious of the
imperfect state of many of the 5,000 plus author-records contained
on the site at present and will much appreciate your feedback and
of course your encouragement.

Best wishes, Bruce.


Subject: Ir-
D Eirdata 2
Date sent: Tue 13 Mar 2001 12:00:00 +0000
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Send reply to: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk



From: "C. McCaffrey"
Subject: Re: Ir-D Eirdata

Click on 'register' and then proceed to register yourself. When you fill
in a username and password, of your choice, you are into the system. You
will need to
remember them as you do have to register each time you go in. Well worth a
visit! Good luck.

Carmel

irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk wrote:

> From: "Thomas J. Archdeacon"
> Subject: Restricted Eirdata site
>
> Dear List Members:
>
> I clicked on Bruce Stewart's Eirdata site (Irish-Studies on the Web
> message) but then confronted a request for username and password. Any
> advice?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Tom
>

bsg.stewart[at]ulst.ac.uk
Languages & Lit/English
University of Ulster
tel 44 (0)28 703 24355
fax 44 (0)28 703 24963

From: DanCas1[at]aol.com
Subject: Re: Ir-D Glazier, Encyclopedia, Review-


In a message dated 3/20/01 7:02:43 AM Pacific Standard Time,
irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk writes:


> This way of seeing is grounded in the
> 1850s when 'Scotch-Irish' became a more common term as the Know-Nothing
> party and other prejudices caused Protestants of Irish origin to set
> themselves apart from an Irish-America which was redefining itself as
> Catholic.
>


A Chairde:

> he so-called Scots-Irish were in the vanguard of the Know Nothing and
> Nativist movements in America from the late 18th century through the
> With all respect to the estimable Brian Lambkin, it might be more
> certain elements within the Protestant Irish
> community "set themselves on" the Irish Catholic community in America. The
> KKK, as well, was and is steeped in an ersatz Scots-Irish metaphysic.
>
> It is only fair to state that Irish-American Catholic epistemology was not
> inconducive to its own brand of xenophobia, as epitomized by Dennis
> Kearney's anti-Chinese SF Workingman's Party in the 1870s and Fr.
> Coughlin's proto-fascist Social Justice movement of the 1930s. Then of
>

Daniel Cassidy






- --part1_60.c93b9f7.27e8fad9_boundary
Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In a message dated 3/20/01
7:02:43 AM Pacific Standard Time,
irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk writes:


This way of seeing
is grounded in the
1850s when 'Scotch-Irish' became a more common term as the Know-Nothing
party and other prejudices caused Protestants of Irish origin to set
themselves apart from an Irish-America which was redefining itself as
Catholic.



A Chairde:

The so-called
Scots-Irish were in the vanguard of the Know Nothing and
Nativist  movements in America from the late 18th century through
the
1920s. With all respect to the estimable Brian Lambkin, it
might be more
accurate to state that
certain elements within the Protestant Irish
community "set themselves on" the Irish Catholic community
in America. The
KKK, as well, was and is steeped in an ersatz Scots-Irish metaphysic.

It is only fair to state that Irish-American Catholic epistemology was
not
inconducive to its own brand of xenophobia, as epitomized by Dennis
Kearney's anti-Chinese SF Workingman's Party in the 1870s and Fr.
Coughlin's proto-fascist Social Justice movement of the 1930s. Then of
course, there is Opus Dei.

Daniel Cassidy



  


- --part1_60.c93b9f7.27e8fad9_boundary--

From: DanCas1[at]aol.com
Subject: Re: Ir-D Irish 'myths'- work

In a message dated 3/20/01 6:29:37 AM Pacific Standard Time,
irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk writes:


> old tunnel 'miner' who
> reckoned that English contractors held
> various records in the 1960s for tunnel boring
> because (a) the money was great (b) the men
> were paid piece-rates and (c) most of the
> men were Irish.
>
>

A Chairde:

May I add to the above: (d) nonunion?
***
What evidence exists that slaves were ever used in canal digging, railroad
construction or large-scale non-plantation dredging projects in the southern
or southwestern US in the 19th century, when the pool of available Irish
labor increased exponentially in every decade from 1815-1860? I am no
economist (as my wife will attest), but common sense would seem to dictate
that contract labor would always be utilized in such high-risk,
high-mortality projects. Why would any slave owner, even the most mercenary,
risk his property?

Daniel Cassidy

From: Kerby Miller
Subject: Re: Ir-D Query re book 'Irish Migrants in Modern Britain' 2


I would like to second Kevin Kenny's interest in using your book for
similar classes here at the U. of Missouri. Good luck.

Kerby






>From: Kevin Kenny
>Subject: Re: Ir-D Query re book 'Irish Migrants in Modern Britain'
>
>>From Kevin Kenny, kennyka[at]bc.edu
>
>Re Don MacRaild's book:
>
>I would like to use the book in a future (post)graduate
>readings course on the Irish worldwide. That would mean 12
>to 15 sales annually. I could also potentially use it in
>undergraduate courses of about three times that number but
>for for the present that would be impractical due to
>curricular demands and structure.
>
>At the least, I would be willing to join others in signing
>a letter to St. Martin's/Palgrave (?).
>
>KK
>
>----------------------
>Kevin Kenny
>Associate Professor of History
>Department of History, Boston College
>140 Commonwealth Avenue, Chestnut Hill, MA 02467
>Phone(617)552-1196; Fax(617)552-3714; kennyka[at]bc.edu
>www2.bc.edu/~kennyka/

From: FNeal33544[at]aol.com
Subject: MacMillan and Paperbacks

Dear Patrick

With regard to the issue raised by Don Macraild re a paperback edition of
his
book I would like to add my experience.

My last book 'black'47:Britain and the Famine Irish' is also published by
Palgraves(MacMillan) and St Martins
Press. At £50 a copy (HB) it is grossly overpriced. I have been in
correspondence with the publishers re a paperback edition. At the moment I
have 23 students on a course entitied 'The Irish in Britain' but I cannot
recommend it as compulsory reading because they cannot afford to buy it.
Neither can the Library afford to buy a sufficient number of copies.

I was told by the history editor (Lavinia O'Flaherty) that they had decide
there was
no market though they will continue to market the HB edition which, St
Martins
Press tell me, is selling well. That makes sense from their point of view -
of
profit maximisation - but it does not change the fact that it is being
priced
out of a much larger market. (Their costs of production were minimal as
they
were given Camera ready copy.) I am going to ask Palgraves to assign the
paper
back rights to me and I will market it! I am not concerned with making
money(though I would not object to that). I am annoyed that the book is
being
kept away from a much larger number of people interested in Irish history,
in
particular a little known feature of the Famine tragedy. I will keep you
posted.

Frank Neal
Salford

From: oliver[at]doyle-marshall.demon.co.uk
Subject: Ir-D Query Murphy riots

Can anyone point me towards recent(ish) studies that discuss the Murphy
riots, especially those in the English Midlands in the 1860s?

Many thanks.

Oliver Marshall

From: Kerby Miller
Subject: Re: Ir-D Glazier, Review, Comment

Without necessarily disagreeing with any previous commentators on
this fascinating topic, I would like to suggest that the history of
Irish Protestant immigrants and their descendants in late 18th-,
19th-, and early 20th-century America--and their transformation from
those whom the Federalists stigmatized as "Wild Irish" (thereby
evoking [intentionally?] "memories" of 1641) to the respectable
"Scotch-Irish" (with traits and habits quintessentially bourgeois as
well as "Protestant")--are among the most neglected subjects in
American, Irish-American, and American immigration/ethnic history.
And they may be subjects of utmost importance for IRISH history
during the same periods as well, in so far as the transformations in
America may have been linked (ideologically, as well as by migration)
to the transformation of an Ulster Protestant population deeply
divided by denomination, politics, ideology, and class in the 1790s
and early 1800s into the "Unionist community" of the late 19th and
early 20th centuries. Odd, too, how the mythologies of the
"Scotch-Irish" and of Ulster as a "Presbyterian province" cause the
perhaps crucial roles of Irish Episcopalians/Anglicans, in effecting
or at least participating in these transformations, to virtually
disappear.

Responses--and references to recent research of which I may be
unaware--will be welcome.

In the meantime, all I can say is that I'm working on these issues
with respect to the late 18th and early 19th centuries, and I am
beginning to suspect that in America it's in the 1790s that
formalized "Scotch-Irishness" --with its modern, positive
connotations--first appears, as a reactionary corollary of
Federalist proscriptions of "Wild Irish Republicans," rather than
much later as a "natural" response to the Femine immigration.

Thanks,

Kerby Miller.




>From: DanCas1[at]aol.com
>Subject: Re: Ir-D Glazier, Encyclopedia, Review-
>
>
>In a message dated 3/20/01 7:02:43 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk writes:
>
>
>> This way of seeing is grounded in the
>> 1850s when 'Scotch-Irish' became a more common term as the Know-Nothing
>> party and other prejudices caused Protestants of Irish origin to set
>> themselves apart from an Irish-America which was redefining itself as
>> Catholic.
>>
>
>
> A Chairde:
>
>> he so-called Scots-Irish were in the vanguard of the Know Nothing and
>> Nativist movements in America from the late 18th century through the
>> With all respect to the estimable Brian Lambkin, it might be more
>> certain elements within the Protestant Irish
>> community "set themselves on" the Irish Catholic community in America.
The
>> KKK, as well, was and is steeped in an ersatz Scots-Irish metaphysic.
>>
>> It is only fair to state that Irish-American Catholic epistemology was
not
>> inconducive to its own brand of xenophobia, as epitomized by Dennis
>> Kearney's anti-Chinese SF Workingman's Party in the 1870s and Fr.
>> Coughlin's proto-fascist Social Justice movement of the 1930s. Then of
>>
>
>Daniel Cassidy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>--part1_60.c93b9f7.27e8fad9_boundary
>Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
>Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
>
>In a message dated 3/20/01
>7:02:43 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk writes:
>
>
>MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">This way of seeing
>is grounded in the
>1850s when 'Scotch-Irish' became a more common term as the Know-Nothing
>party and other prejudices caused Protestants of Irish origin to set
>themselves apart from an Irish-America which was redefining itself as
>Catholic.
>LANG="0">
>
>
> A Chairde:
>LANG="0">
>TMARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">he so-called
>Scots-Irish were in the vanguard of the Know Nothing and
>Nativist  movements in America from the late 18th century through
>the
>1920s. With all respect to the estimable Brian Lambkin, it
>might be more
>accurate to state that2px solid; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px">
>certain elements within the Protestant Irish
>community "set themselves on" the Irish Catholic
community
>in America. The
>KKK, as well, was and is steeped in an ersatz Scots-Irish metaphysic.
>
>It is only fair to state that Irish-American Catholic epistemology was
>not
>inconducive to its own brand of xenophobia, as epitomized by Dennis
>Kearney's anti-Chinese SF Workingman's Party in the 1870s and Fr.
>Coughlin's proto-fascist Social Justice movement of the 1930s. Then of
>course, there is Opus Dei.
>
>Daniel CassidyFACE="Arial" LANG="0">
>
>
>LANG="0">
>   FACE="Arial" LANG="0">
>
>
>--part1_60.c93b9f7.27e8fad9_boundary--

From: Kerby Miller
Subject: Re: Ir-D MacMillan and Paperbacks

Often I have been astonished and bewildered by which books in Irish
history are chosen for immediate or near-immediate paperback
publication and mass circulation and those which never appear in
paperback and quickly disappear in their over-priced hardback
editions. I would be curious to learn whether anyone has discerned
any objective or subjective factors that might account for such
apparent anomalies. Frank Neal's book--as well as Don's--would
appear to me to be a "natural" selection for mass paperback
marketing. Certainly, if either book was published in the U.S. AND
about Irish/Famine immigrants in the U.S., it would be a likely
history-book-of-the-month selection (assuring big sales and a
paperback edition) and a probable subject for another documentary
film. Is market size the ONLY difference involved here?

Kerby.





>From: FNeal33544[at]aol.com
>Subject: MacMillan and Paperbacks
>
>Dear Patrick
>
>With regard to the issue raised by Don Macraild re a paperback edition of
>his
>book I would like to add my experience.
>
>My last book 'black'47:Britain and the Famine Irish' is also published by
>Palgraves(MacMillan) and St Martins
>Press. At £50 a copy (HB) it is grossly overpriced. I have been in
>correspondence with the publishers re a paperback edition. At the moment I
>have 23 students on a course entitied 'The Irish in Britain' but I cannot
>recommend it as compulsory reading because they cannot afford to buy it.
>Neither can the Library afford to buy a sufficient number of copies.
>
>I was told by the history editor (Lavinia O'Flaherty) that they had decide
>there was
>no market though they will continue to market the HB edition which, St
>Martins
>Press tell me, is selling well. That makes sense from their point of
view -
>of
>profit maximisation - but it does not change the fact that it is being
>priced
>out of a much larger market. (Their costs of production were minimal as
>they
>were given Camera ready copy.) I am going to ask Palgraves to assign the
>paper
>back rights to me and I will market it! I am not concerned with making
>money(though I would not object to that). I am annoyed that the book is
>being
>kept away from a much larger number of people interested in Irish history,
>in
>particular a little known feature of the Famine tragedy. I will keep you
>posted.
>
>Frank Neal
>Salford

Forwarded on behalf of...
Catherine Mizell-Nelson
Subject: Tulane Cambridge Conference

TULANE CAMBRIDGE CONFERENCE 2001:
FREEDOM STRUGGLES IN THE ATLANTIC WORLD

Thursday, April 5 - Saturday, April 7, 2001
Tulane University, New Orleans, Louisiana

The 2001 Tulane Cambridge Conference will bring together scholars from the
United States, Great Britain, Canada, and the Caribbean to discuss "Freedom
Struggles in the Atlantic World." The conference looks comparatively at the
southern U.S. civil rights movement and social justice and anti-colonial
movements throughout the Atlantic world. Sessions will address the themes
of reconstructing, assessing, and remembering the struggles, including such
topics as the role of violence in the struggles, performance as a means of
protest, Black Power and black nationalism, school desegregation,
affirmative action, and the Freedom Riders.

Hilary Beckles, Aline Helg, Winston James, and other scholars will examine
freedom movements in Caribbean nations.

The conference is free, and all are invited to attend. All events will be
held at Tulane University in New Orleans, Louisiana. The conference is the
third in an ongoing partnership between Tulane and the University of
Cambridge that began in 1996.

For the conference schedule, please visit our website at
http://deepsouth.tulane.edu/tucam.htm. For further information, email
canders3[at]tulane.edu.

Catherine Mizell-Nelson
Program Coordinator
Deep South Regional Humanities Center
at Tulane University
504-862-8027

Forwarded on behalf of...
isabellerichet[at]wanadoo.fr (Isabelle Richet)



I am looking for an article on the American Catholic Church for a special
issue of the Revue Fran=E7aise d'Etudes am=E9ricaines on "Religion and
Society in
contemporary America".The article could deal either with the Catholic church
and politics or on the church and multiculturalism, but other suggestions
are
welcome. Please contact me, directly, at...

Isabelle Richet

Professor of American Studies

Universit=E9 Paris X-Nanterre

52, rue de Charonne

75011 PARIS

tel : (33) 1 48 05 86 98

fax : (33) 1 48 05 91 56

email : isabellerichet[at]wanadoo.fr

From: "Matt O'Brien"
Subject: Re: Ir-D Glazier, Review, Comment 2

For an informative account of self-identified Scotch-Irish historical
societies in the U.S., I recommend taking a look at John J. Appel's Ph.D.
dissertation for the University of Pennsylvania, "Immigrant Historical
Societies in the United States, 1880-1950," pp.23-123. It's a little older
(submitted in 1960), but then again apart from Donald Akenson's work the
topic still seems largely unexplored.
Matt O'Brien
Ph.D. Candidate
University of Wisconsin-Madison

- -----Original Message-----
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Date: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 5:05 PM
Subject: Ir-D Glazier, Review, Comment 2


>
>From: Kerby Miller
>Subject: Re: Ir-D Glazier, Review, Comment
>
>Without necessarily disagreeing with any previous commentators on
>this fascinating topic, I would like to suggest that the history of
>Irish Protestant immigrants and their descendants in late 18th-,
>19th-, and early 20th-century America--and their transformation from
>those whom the Federalists stigmatized as "Wild Irish" (thereby
>evoking [intentionally?] "memories" of 1641) to the respectable
>"Scotch-Irish" (with traits and habits quintessentially bourgeois as
>well as "Protestant")--are among the most neglected subjects in
>American, Irish-American, and American immigration/ethnic history.
>And they may be subjects of utmost importance for IRISH history
>during the same periods as well, in so far as the transformations in
>America may have been linked (ideologically, as well as by migration)
>to the transformation of an Ulster Protestant population deeply
>divided by denomination, politics, ideology, and class in the 1790s
>and early 1800s into the "Unionist community" of the late 19th and
>early 20th centuries. Odd, too, how the mythologies of the
>"Scotch-Irish" and of Ulster as a "Presbyterian province" cause the
>perhaps crucial roles of Irish Episcopalians/Anglicans, in effecting
>or at least participating in these transformations, to virtually
>disappear.
>
>Responses--and references to recent research of which I may be
>unaware--will be welcome.
>
>In the meantime, all I can say is that I'm working on these issues
>with respect to the late 18th and early 19th centuries, and I am
>beginning to suspect that in America it's in the 1790s that
>formalized "Scotch-Irishness" --with its modern, positive
>connotations--first appears, as a reactionary corollary of
>Federalist proscriptions of "Wild Irish Republicans," rather than
>much later as a "natural" response to the Femine immigration.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Kerby Miller.
>
>
>
>

From: Don MacRaild
Subject: RE: Ir-D MacMillan and Paperbacks 2

In response to Kerby's point. The Macmillan issue is
a curious one. Basically, back in the 30s old man
Macmillan (whoever he is) flogged the US arm of
his business off. The result is that Macmillan can't
trade in the US and have to run through partners.
St Martin's, a perfectly good press, tends to think
only in terms of small numbers of expensive
hardbacks. In this case they make a marketing
decision (say about Irish books) which understates
the potential sales. Equally, you'll be staggered to
learn that these $60 hardbacks are pushed out
to St Martin's, by the likes of Macmillan, for just
a few dollars. Nice line of business. I always
remember as kid looking at big house's books
which had prices in various sorts of dollars
as well as pounds that also carried the rider
'not for sale in [for e.g.[ Canada'. Anyway,
I really do think these people make a
marketing decision without apprehending the
fact that 40 million US citizens call themselves
Irish in some part. (or is it even more, now).

There are enough of us on the list to make a
difference. As for Frank Neal's book, I know
Frank is very unhappy that the only work of
its type is experiencing such a small-scale
circulation at such an extortionate price.

All this is why Macmillan changed its name
to Palgrave. 'll keep on at them if the evidence
continues to roll in. Perhaps others could
target their publishers?

Best


Don MacRaild

> -----Original Message-----
> From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk [SMTP:irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 6:00 AM
> To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
> Subject: Ir-D MacMillan and Paperbacks 2
>
>
> From: Kerby Miller
> Subject: Re: Ir-D MacMillan and Paperbacks
>
> Often I have been astonished and bewildered by which books in Irish
> history are chosen for immediate or near-immediate paperback
> publication and mass circulation and those which never appear in
> paperback and quickly disappear in their over-priced hardback
> editions. I would be curious to learn whether anyone has discerned
> any objective or subjective factors that might account for such
> apparent anomalies. Frank Neal's book--as well as Don's--would
> appear to me to be a "natural" selection for mass paperback
> marketing. Certainly, if either book was published in the U.S. AND
> about Irish/Famine immigrants in the U.S., it would be a likely
> history-book-of-the-month selection (assuring big sales and a
> paperback edition) and a probable subject for another documentary
> film. Is market size the ONLY difference involved here?
>
> Kerby.
>

From: Patrick Maume
Subject: Re: Ir-D Query Murphy riots

From: Patrick Maume

Don MacRaild's book on the Irish in Cumbria (afraid I don't have the
exact title to hand) has material on Murphy's visits to Cumbria, the riots
in which he was fatally injured, and subsequent Orange memorialisation
of him as a martyr.
Best wishes,
Patrick


[Moderator's Note:
My review of MacRaild can be found on our web site...
Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/
The review accuses MacRaild of melancholy solipsism - but is otherwise
favourable...
P.O'S.]


On Tue 20 Mar 2001 23:00:00 +0000 irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk wrote:

> From:irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk> Date: Tue 20 Mar 2001 23:00:00
+0000
> Subject: Ir-D Query Murphy riots
> To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
>
>
> From: oliver[at]doyle-marshall.demon.co.uk
> Subject: Ir-D Query Murphy riots
>
> Can anyone point me towards recent(ish) studies that discuss the
Murphy
> riots, especially those in the English Midlands in the 1860s?
>
> Many thanks.
>
> Oliver Marshall
>