From: Ultan Cowley
Subject: Irish myths-work

The following quotations may add something to this discussion about Irish
navvies...

1. 'The Irish labourer, as the soil produces him, is totally and utterly
untaught. A man who has in him the makings of an excellent workman, but who
has never handled a pick or shovel, never wheeled a barrow, and never made
a nearer approach to work than to turn over a potato-field with a clumsy
hoe, is in no position to make a dock or a railway. He has to be taught,
and to be set to work...alongside of a steady workman. for this purpose a
nucleus of English workmen is indispensable'.
Conder, FR, Personal Recollections of English Engineers, 1868 (Telford Ed.,
1983), p.169

These are the considered views of an English railway engineer who had
worked in Ireland in the mid-19th C.

Conder later qualifies this, however, with the following:
2. 'The English navvy...is a man with whom there is some satisfaction in
working...to whom you can attribute any failure to elevate him into a
position of permanent comfort and respectability, not to any inherent
infirmity of nature, but to want of early training, and to the potent
influence of strong drink'.

Interestingly enough, these opinions are almost identical to those
expressed to me by senior English fugures in the modern British
construction industry, vis a vis Irish operatives of the 20th C. 'Mcalpines
fusiliers' generation...

Conder goes on...:
3. 'It is otherwise with the Irish labourer...in England or America he
becomes a hard-working and reliable operative. His natural ability, far
above that of the average Englishman, when directed in the right channel,
enables him to take a high rank in the republic of labour'. Inid, pp. 168-9

Thirty years later, in 1891, a journalist writing about the building of the
Manchester Ship Canal (1887-1893), wrote:
4. 'There has been a large influx of agricultural labourers, also plenty of
Irishmen, and those who have had not had previous experience have less
chance of securing a job than those hardy fellows who have moved about the
country on public works for a lifetime...We have, in fact, met numbers of
men of splendid physique, Samsons in their way, who may literally be said
to have been born navvies'.
Eccles & Patricroft Journal, June 8, 1888

Without wishing to be pedantic, I would caution against lumping together
'navvies', 'excavators', 'labourers' & 'operatives' on the basis that,
because they made have worked on railway building, they were all equally
skilled and experienced. There were important distinctions which, it has to
be said, often placed the Irish at the unskilled end of the skills spectrum
on 19th C. railway building projects.

Neither should it be assumed that they were as important an element in
English as in American railway building...(See Brooke, D., The Railway
Navvy: That Despicable Race of Men', London, 1983, p.167; but,: 'Only the
ubiquitous Irish can be described as a truly international force in railway
construction', p.167).

Finally, the Irish 'miners' on the Scottish hydro electric schemes of the
1940's & '50's were a Donegal elite who had secured a niche in hard-rock
tunelling as a result of their presence on two pre-war schemes & the almost
total lack of experienced men for the post-war projects (Polish DPs who
were Silesian former coal miners were equally in demand in this time &
place).

What gave the Irish in civil engineering the edge in the 19th & early 20th
centuries was their predominantly rural background & especially their
experience of drain-digging on the wet lands of Connaught. cf. The English
Dialect Dictionary, Vol.IV, OUP, 1961 (Ed. Joseph Wright):
'NAVIGATOR - 1. An 'Excavator', a 'navvy'; a rough labourer.
2. A drain-maker's spade with a stout, narrow, gouge-like
blade; a 'graft'.
This regional skill was similar to that possessed by the 'Bankers' of
Lincolnshire, acquired over generations draining The Fens, who were the
true navvying elite in England in the 19th century.
5.'You brought your own shovel, graft, and foot-iron', Nobby Clarke,
ex-Long Distance Kiddy, aged 79, in conversation, Wimbledon Irish Centre,
London, 1994.

Sorry for the diatribe - the Irish navvy has been my obsession for the past
six years and the result, in the form of a book called 'THE MEN WHO BUILT
BRITAIN': A HISTORY OF THE IRISH NAVVY, will (finally) be published by
Wolfhound Press in October 2001.
Is there life after...?

Best wishes
Ultan Cowley

From: Don MacRaild
Subject: RE: Ir-D Query Murphy riots

The most recent work on the Murphy Riots is in Alex Peach's PhD
thesis. It contains a very detailed, updated study of the
Midlands Murphy phenomenon, linking the man himself to the
local Orange Order and, more generally, to Birmingham's
unique(ish) brand of popular Protestant anti-Catholicism. It
takes a good deal further than the still important works
of Roger Swift and W.L. Arnstein, not least because
Peach has found new material. However, Alex really needs
to get this stuff into the public sphere before he allows
the rest of to pick over the bones. Dreadfully jealous-
sounded, I know, but he's got a career to think about.
On this side of the pond we are all obsessed with
the measurement of research outputs, etc. which is
having a deleterious effect on scholarly sharing!

That said, it's up to him if he wants to share his as yet
unpublished work ....


Don MacRaild


> -----Original Message-----
> From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk [SMTP:irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 11:00 PM
> To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
> Subject: Ir-D Query Murphy riots
>
>
> From: oliver[at]doyle-marshall.demon.co.uk
> Subject: Ir-D Query Murphy riots
>
> Can anyone point me towards recent(ish) studies that discuss the Murphy
> riots, especially those in the English Midlands in the 1860s?
>
> Many thanks.
>
> Oliver Marshall

From: Don MacRaild
Subject: RE: Ir-D Discussion - Navvies


Thanks to Ultan for putting me straight on a number of details of
the navvying life. I look forward to reading the book.

Don MacRaild

From: Don MacRaild
Subject: RE: Ir-D Query Murphy riots 2

I've tried to lose my solipsisms; but melancholy continues to do down
my other humours!!!!

Don MacRaild

> -----Original Message-----
> From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk [SMTP:irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 12:00 PM
> To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
> Subject: Ir-D Query Murphy riots 2
>
>
> From: Patrick Maume
> Subject: Re: Ir-D Query Murphy riots
>
> From: Patrick Maume
>
> Don MacRaild's book on the Irish in Cumbria (afraid I don't have the
> exact title to hand) has material on Murphy's visits to Cumbria, the riots
> in which he was fatally injured, and subsequent Orange memorialisation
> of him as a martyr.
> Best wishes,
> Patrick
>
>
> [Moderator's Note:
> My review of MacRaild can be found on our web site...
> Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/
> The review accuses MacRaild of melancholy solipsism - but is otherwise
> favourable...
> P.O'S.]
>
>

Forwarded for information...

[Moderator's Note: Ir-D Members will recall discussion of the work of
Panikos Panayi at our conference in Bochum, and of course his work impinges
on study of minorities in Britain. P.O'S.]

Brinkmann on Panayi, _Ethnic Minorities in Nineteenth
and Twentieth


H-NET BOOK REVIEW
Published by H-Ethnic[at]h-net.msu.edu (March, 2001)

Panikos Panayi. _Ethnic Minorities in Nineteenth and Twentieth
Century Germany: Jews, Gypsies, Poles, Turks and Others_. Themes
in Modern German History. Harlow, England: Longman, 2000. xvi +
288pp. Tables, maps, notes, bibliographical essay, and index. UK
pounds 14.99 (paper), ISBN 0-582-26760-9; UK pounds 55.00
(cloth), ISBN 0-582-26771-4.

Reviewed for H-Ethnic by Tobias Brinkmann
, Center for Advanced Studies,
University of Leipzig, Germany

Clearing up the Jargon

The publication of Panikos Panayi's book appears well timed.
Even the most superficial observer of Germany cannot overlook
the steep rise in racist and lately even antisemitic attacks. At
the same time a debate about an immigration law is slowly
beginning to take shape. The declining birth-rate and thus the
need to prevent the German state-pension system from collapse
requires immigration. Even conservative sceptics have called
for (limited and controlled) immigration. In 2000 the federal
government adopted a Green Card program to bring several
thousand young IT-professionals from Eastern Europe and
Southeast Asia to Germany.

A survey of minorities and immigrants in Germany which provides
a historical background should therefore be welcome. But even
before opening the book, readers familiar with German history
and ethnic studies may wonder about the implications of the
title. Is the term "ethnic minorities" in the German context
between 1800 and 2000 really a useful concept for groups as
diverse as "Jews, Gypsies, Poles, Turks and Others"?

Panayi has indeed drawn together some hitherto scattered facts
on a wide range of groups in one volume, ranging from Turks in
contemporary Germany to the Sorbs in East Germany, and to
various other groups throughout modern German history. The
volume is designed as a textbook written for undergraduate
students and beginners in the field. It is organized in seven
chapters: In the first chapter entitled "Majorities and
Minorities in German History," Panayi tries to define some
terms, as he puts it "to clear up the jargon" (p. 2), also
providing a superficial sketch of premodern German history. The
six following chapters on the status of ethnic minorities follow
modern German history in the traditional chronological order,
beginning with the period before 1871, followed by Imperial
Germany, the Weimar Republic, The Third Reich, and the two
German states between 1949 and 1989. The last chapter deals
with Germany after 1989. Panayi's argument is not surprising.
He detects a continuity in German history of the state refusing
to accept "ethnic minorities" and, for that matter, immigration
as such.

The challenge in writing such a book is to understand and weave
together two rather complex processes, modern German history and
the history of minorities in Germany. Panikos Panayi should be
praised for his effort, and he claims at least three times that
he is indeed the first scholar to have done so (pp. x, 1, 272).
But unfortunately the book has a number of serious flaws,
especially on the conceptual level, which undermine the project
from the outset.

1. The refusal of the author to discuss the validity and
applicability of complex terms such as "ethnic minority,"
ethnicity, assimilation etc. He brushes aside what he calls
"jargon" (p. 2) in a few pages (p. 2-9) in his introductory
chapter. Page 2-8 are devoted to the terms nationalism and
racism. But here Panayi never really defines nationalism. The
reader learns that it "may" have existed in medieval Europe,
that the Reformation "made a difference" (p. 2), that
nationalism is related to a sovereign populace and that it
really started with the French Revolution. From there it moved
east: "Nationalism infected German-speaking Europe almost
instantly and, like a disease, the whole continent had caught it
by the end of the nineteenth century." (p. 3) After 1815 the
"educated middle classes" used nationalism to "eliminate their
rulers" (p. 3). But an undergraduate reader may still wonder
what nationalism as such was, let alone why its definition was
and is controversial. And Panayi repeats this unsatisfactory
approach for the term racism: The philosopher Immanuel Kant used
the term "race," "there emerged the concept of Social Darwinism"
(but from where?), and the Pan-Germans used the concept etc.

The concept of "Begriffsgeschichte" (history of concepts) is
completely absent from the whole book, i.e. the Enlightment
concept of "race" is not identical with that of the Pan-German
League more than one hundred years later. The term ethnicity
receives less than two pages of attention but not really a
definition, in a book that is primarily devoted to ethnic
groups. Panayi stresses "that no difference exists between an
ethnic group and a nation" in the German case, and that members
of an ethnic group share appearance, language and religion (p.
8). After page nine, the author never returns to the subject of
terms and their validity. Other crucial terms that are used but
not explained include "minority," "diaspora," "identity," and
"antisemitism";

2. The author takes a simplistic approach to complex topics such
as National Socialism, highlighted by short and superficial
sentences and paragraphs which were not carefully edited
(examples below);

3. The author relies on a very diffuse mix of secondary
literature which includes standard references, rather obscure
works, outdated studies, and popular histories. Rather than
carefully researching the history of a group or a period, the
author in many cases appears to use the first book he could find
and put it into the footnotes.

In the German case Panayi differentiates between three kinds of
"ethnic minorities": Jews and Gypsies as long settled but
dispersed minorities; Poles, Danes and other groups as localized
minorities; and immigrants. In many works on Imperial Germany,
Poles and Danes are referred to as "national" minorities, but
this term is not discussed. And there are groups which clearly
do not fit into Panayi's tripartite system: Jewish and Gypsy
immigrants and Polish immigrants in particular. Panayi also
does not explain what he exactly means by "dispersed" as opposed
to "localised." Robin Cohen's recent and easily accessible works
on this particular subject are not mentioned.[1]

A central problem, however, is the complete absence of a
discussion of the validity of the concept "ethnic minority" for
each of the groups treated in the book. Especially in the
German context this is quite unfortunate. On a theoretical
level the concepts ethnicity, ethnic group and assimilation are
derived primarily from the American context. But Germany, in
particular, does not easily compare with the United States. To
this day Germany is officially not an immigration country,
Germany has no immigration law, and German citizenship is still
largely based on the "ius sanguinis" (law of the blood) rather
than "ius solis" (law of the territory) as in the US, and, to a
limited degree, in Great Britain and France. In Germany the
interrelated processes of ethnicization and assimilation (as in
the United States and other declared immigration societies) did
not take place, or only to a very limited degree.

The citizenship issue has already been studied in detail by
Rogers Brubaker, a book that Panayi mentions in a footnote on
the Citizenship Law of 1913 (p. 74, fn. 18). Brubaker's
comparative approach would have provided Panayi with a carefully
thought out approach and well defined terms. It remains unclear
why Panayi does not even discuss (or question) Brubaker's
findings in his introductory chapter.[2] It is certainly open to
discussion whether or not the term "ethnic" is a useful concept
for certain minorities in Germany, especially after 1960, and
even more so after 1990. And it would have been interesting to
learn if, when, why, and how Jews, Gypsies, and the other groups
mentioned became ethnic and/or when they were treated as ethnic
by the state or by other Germans. The difference between
self-ascribed identities, identities ascribed by "ethnic
leaders" or by the "ethnic group," and identities which are
ascribed from outside, for instance by the state, is not an
issue for Panayi.

This leads to serious problems, especially against the
background of racist ideologies and laws. The definition of
"Jewish" in the notorious Nuremberg laws of 1935 applied also to
persons who regarded themselves not as Jewish but who were
defined and persecuted as "Jews" by the German state. The same
applies to other victimized groups, in particular to Gypsies.
But these crucial differences do not concern the author.

Jews are a case in point: For Panayi Jews were an "ethnic
minority" in medieval Germany, and from the premodern period
throughout 1933. For each of these periods, but in particular
for the premodern period, and even more so for the nineteenth
century, it is rather problematic to use the term "ethnic
minority" without any discussion of what "ethnic" and
"ethnicization," and "minority" mean in the context of modern
Jewish history. Although Panayi mentions David Sorkin's
influential book on German-Jewish history, he does not discuss
Sorkin's concept of a Jewish subculture.[3] Few, if any
specialists of German-Jewish history would agree with Panayi's
uncritical approach in this case.

The terms ethnicity and ethnic are notably absent from the
standard works on German-Jewish history, some of which Panayi
refers to in his footnotes. There is a broad agreement among
historians of modern Jewish history that around 1900 a process
of Jewish "dissimilation" began in Imperial Germany. For this
period the term "ethnic" could certainly be discussed. But
again, the use of that term is far from being an accepted
mainstream viewpoint and would require a careful explanation and
discussion. The authors of the four volume "German-Jewish
History in the Modern Period," edited by Michael A. Meyer, which
is regarded as the standard reference on German-Jewish history
in the modern period, do not describe German-Jewish history in
the period 1780-1933 in ethnic terms, nor does Shulamit Volkov
in her standard-textbook on this subject .[4] But Panayi does
not mention these important studies; instead he relies in many
instances on Ruth Gay's "The Jews of Germany," a richly
illustrated popular history of German Jewry, and on a number of
outdated works from the 1960s.The term subculture, which allows
for shifting boundaries and a certain degree of permeability,
might have been a more useful concept than "ethnic minority" to
tackle the problem of describing the experience of rather
diverse "minorities" and other marginalized groups within the
modern German context, not all of whom were strictly "ethnic."

The book contains countless not carefully thought out sections,
paragraphs and terms. Panayi uses, for instance, the term
"Ostjuden" for Jewish immigrants from Eastern Europe in Imperial
Germany (p. 89) without explaining that this term was highly
charged and reflects rather stereotypical images and
imaginations of "Jews" than actual Jewish immigrants.
Interestingly, Steven Aschheim's important book on this subject
shows up in a footnote, but its thesis is not discussed.[5] A
typical paragraph may illustrate the problems of Panayi's
approach. In a section on the rise of scientific racism in
Imperial Germany Panayi writes just after discussing the ideas
of German nationalists: "By the outbreak of the First World War
the scientific racism which would lead to Nazi eugenics had
established itself in Germany. The First International Hygiene
Exhibition in Dresden in 1911 opened the German Hygiene Museum.
The Racial Hygiene Society, founded in Berlin in 1905,
represented an organization which unified 'Pan-German Aryan
ideologues' and social hygienists." (p. 88) The Dresden Hygiene
Museum was actually opened in 1930. Admittedly the First
Hygiene Exhibition in 1911 helped to popularize scientific
"racism" (it attracted 5 million visitors), but to reduce its
concept and organization to proto-Nazi eugenics in one sentence
is an extremely one-sided view. Some readers might assume from
this sentence that the Hygiene Museum was a museum of scientific
racism run by extremist proto-Nazis (it was not). Apart from
this literally thrown in piece of information this section
points to two other problems. Throughout the book Panayi heaps
facts upon facts, often without putting in a paragraph with some
comment or explanation. And throughout chapters 1-4, i.e. the
chapters covering the periods before 1933, Panayi makes numerous
remarks referring to the Nazi period. At times, he is aware of
problems of hindsight, but often the uninformed reader is led to
believe that Germany was firmly on the track to Nazi rule many
decades before 1933.

The often unclear sentences create profound problems in the
chapter on the Nazi era. Here Panayi states: "Once the Second
World War broke out, the Nazis quickly defeated Poland ..." (p.
166). Or he claims: "Holland deported 110,000 of its Jews to
the Nazi extermination camps in Poland, ..." (p. 174).
Uninformed readers might assume that Germany did not start the
Second World War and that Dutch Jews and Jewish refugees living
in the Netherlands were deported by the Dutch state rather than
the Germans occupying the Netherlands. Another passage
describes the so called _Kristallnacht_ or night of broken
glass: "The Nazis publicized the assassination of an official at
the German embassy in Paris, Ernst von Rath, by a Polish Jew, on
7 November [1938] and, in fact, turned him into something of a
martyr. This led to the nationwide explosion of antisemitic violence
on the night of 9-10 November, which resulted in the destruction of
7.500 shops and more than 250 synagogues, as well as 236 deaths"
(p. 170). Panayi never tells the reader that the pogrom was
carefully organized and orchestrated by Goebbels, Heydrich and
other leading party officials and executed by SA and SS-members.
While some bystanders did join the SA and SS and almost no
"ordinary German" defended Jews, it was not a spontaneous
popular revolt as the Goebbels propaganda machine claimed and as
Panayi suggests here.

Countless sentences and paragraphs begin with "the Nazis ...,"
but with the sole exception of the notorious Robert Ritter,
a scientist who specialized on the Gypsies, and Hitler himself,
leading figures of Nazi Germany such as Himmler, Heydrich,
Eichmann, Rosenberg, Goebbels and others whose role was
crucial in terms of persecuting minoritiesare completely absent;
so are (with very few exceptions) functional elites, the SS, the
"Einsatzgruppen" (mobile-killing units), the German army,
professionals, and ordinary Germans. Instead Panayi opts for
the umbrella-term "the Nazis." In this light, it comes as a surprise
that Panayi readily agrees with Daniel J. Goldhagen's controversial
argument that ordinary Germans, not all of whom were Nazis, harbored
"eliminationist" antisemitic views (p. 165, fn. 129). Suffice to say that
important works such as Saul Friedlander's "Nazi Germany and the
Jews" are not cited.[6] Even the paragraphs on the extermination
of the Jews contain factual errors, for instance when Panayi
claims that Treblinka, Belzec, Sobibor, and Chelmno were
concentration camps which "would eventually develop" into
extermination camps, when in fact these were extermination camps
from the start (p. 179).

The main reason for the thorough lack of methodological clarity
is Panayi's refusal to draw the reader into what he regards as
fruitless theoretical debates. But Panayi's evasive way of
"clearing up the jargon" belies his effort of writing history
for an academic audience. A textbook requires clear definitions
of crucial terms and concepts and a clear and understandable
style, but not simplistic, at times even crude language and
superficial "research" by the author.

Notes

[1]. Robin Cohen, _Global Diasporas_, London 1997.

[2]. Rogers Brubaker, _Citizenship and Nationhood in France and
Germany_, Cambridge, Mass 1992.

[3]. David Sorkin, _Transformation of German Jewry, 1780-1940_,
New York 1987.

[4]. Shulamit Volkov, _Die Juden in Deutschland 1780-1914_,
Munich 1997. Michael A. Meyer (ed.), _German-Jewish History in
the Modern Period_, 4 Volumes, New York 1997.

[5]. Steven Aschheim, _Brothers and Strangers: The East
European Jew in German and German-Jewish Consciousness_, Madison
1982.

[6]. Saul Friedlander, _Nazi Germany and the Jews_, New York
1997.

Copyright (c) 2001 by H-Net, all rights reserved. This work
may be copied for non-profit educational use if proper credit
is given to the author and the list. For other permission,
please contact H-Net[at]h-net.msu.edu.

From: Alexander Peach
Subject: RE: Ir-D Query Murphy riots 3

Thanks for that Don.

Yes I have been a little shy in publishing my work, this about to change. I
am of the opinion that scholars should first and foremost think and perhaps
publishing less can lead to better quality, but not an advanced career in
the UK unfortunately.

In reply to Oliver Marshall's original query - of course I would be more
than happy to help and I have
already contacted him off list.

I have a cunning plan (first suggested by Don MacRaild) to do a comparative
project of anti-Irish/Catholic preachers in Britain and the Americas.
Although as far as I know Murphy did not travel there (although news of the
Birmingham riot reached those shores) another itinerant anti-Catholic
preacher who visited Birmingham - Italian nationalist and apostate priest
Father Alessandro Gavazzi - was instrumentally (I'm led to believe)
involved in an anti-Catholic riot in Montreal. There are others I am sure
and this -along with the organisational links and historical context
surrounding them - is what I would like to investigate. The Nativist
ructions and Know-Nothing disturbances bear striking resemblances to
anti-Irish agitations over here but in a different time frame. I am
thinking of approaching a funding body here about this project and wondered
if any of the big brains out there could point me in the direction of
archives in Canada and the USA or indeed anyone foolish enough to furnish
me with funding or just a desk to operate from while over there.

Best wishes and cheekily yours,

Dr. Alex Peach.




- -----Original Message-----
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk [SMTP:irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk]
Sent: 21 March 2001 12:00
To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Ir-D Query Murphy riots 3



From: Don MacRaild
Subject: RE: Ir-D Query Murphy riots

The most recent work on the Murphy Riots is in Alex Peach's PhD
thesis. It contains a very detailed, updated study of the
Midlands Murphy phenomenon, linking the man himself to the
local Orange Order and, more generally, to Birmingham's
unique(ish) brand of popular Protestant anti-Catholicism. It
takes a good deal further than the still important works
of Roger Swift and W.L. Arnstein, not least because
Peach has found new material. However, Alex really needs
to get this stuff into the public sphere before he allows
the rest of to pick over the bones. Dreadfully jealous-
sounded, I know, but he's got a career to think about.
On this side of the pond we are all obsessed with
the measurement of research outputs, etc. which is
having a deleterious effect on scholarly sharing!

That said, it's up to him if he wants to share his as yet
unpublished work ....


Don MacRaild


> -----Original Message-----
> From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk [SMTP:irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 11:00 PM
> To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
> Subject: Ir-D Query Murphy riots
>
>
> From: oliver[at]doyle-marshall.demon.co.uk
> Subject: Ir-D Query Murphy riots
>
> Can anyone point me towards recent(ish) studies that discuss the Murphy
> riots, especially those in the English Midlands in the 1860s?
>
> Many thanks.
>
> Oliver Marshall

From: Liz Newton
Subject: Re: Ir-D Query Murphy riots 5

alex, the Canadian plains research unit at university of regina may know of
contact people who are writing about the irish in the prairies. you can
contact them at www.uregina.ca

Liz

irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk wrote:

> From: Alexander Peach
> Subject: RE: Ir-D Query Murphy riots 3
>
> Thanks for that Don.
>
> Yes I have been a little shy in publishing my work, this about to change.
I
> am of the opinion that scholars should first and foremost think and
perhaps
> publishing less can lead to better quality, but not an advanced career in
> the UK unfortunately.
>
> In reply to Oliver Marshall's original query - of course I would be more
> than happy to help and I have
> already contacted him off list.
>
> I have a cunning plan (first suggested by Don MacRaild) to do a
comparative
> project of anti-Irish/Catholic preachers in Britain and the Americas.
> Although as far as I know Murphy did not travel there (although news of
the
> Birmingham riot reached those shores) another itinerant anti-Catholic
> preacher who visited Birmingham - Italian nationalist and apostate priest
> Father Alessandro Gavazzi - was instrumentally (I'm led to believe)
> involved in an anti-Catholic riot in Montreal. There are others I am sure
> and this -along with the organisational links and historical context
> surrounding them - is what I would like to investigate. The Nativist
> ructions and Know-Nothing disturbances bear striking resemblances to
> anti-Irish agitations over here but in a different time frame. I am
> thinking of approaching a funding body here about this project and
wondered
> if any of the big brains out there could point me in the direction of
> archives in Canada and the USA or indeed anyone foolish enough to furnish
> me with funding or just a desk to operate from while over there.
>
> Best wishes and cheekily yours,
>
> Dr. Alex Peach.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk [SMTP:irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk]
> Sent: 21 March 2001 12:00
> To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
> Subject: Ir-D Query Murphy riots 3
>
> From: Don MacRaild
> Subject: RE: Ir-D Query Murphy riots
>
> The most recent work on the Murphy Riots is in Alex Peach's PhD
> thesis. It contains a very detailed, updated study of the
> Midlands Murphy phenomenon, linking the man himself to the
> local Orange Order and, more generally, to Birmingham's
> unique(ish) brand of popular Protestant anti-Catholicism. It
> takes a good deal further than the still important works
> of Roger Swift and W.L. Arnstein, not least because
> Peach has found new material. However, Alex really needs
> to get this stuff into the public sphere before he allows
> the rest of to pick over the bones. Dreadfully jealous-
> sounded, I know, but he's got a career to think about.
> On this side of the pond we are all obsessed with
> the measurement of research outputs, etc. which is
> having a deleterious effect on scholarly sharing!
>
> That said, it's up to him if he wants to share his as yet
> unpublished work ....
>
> Don MacRaild
>

The Boston Irish Colloquium Series
A forum for women with a scholarly interest in Irish Studies

presents

Eileen M. Trauth,
College of Business Administration,
Northeastern University

We celebrate her new book:

The Culture of an Information Economy, Influences and Impacts in the
Republic of Ireland


This book peers inside the day-to-day work lives of the people who have been
bringing about Ireland's transition from a small agricultural country to the
healthy information economy, known colloquially around the world as the
Celtic Tiger. It is one of few book-length interpretive studies in the
information systems field. It links the disciplines of information systems,
international management, economic development, history, and public policy
to tell the story behind the statistics about Ireland's economic
development. The findings from this ten-year study illustrate the range of
socio-cultural factors, which influence the emergence of an information
sector. Ireland's story contains a message for other nations that this
change to a new way of working and living is intimately connected to the
cultural context within which it occurs. This book reveals the ethnographic
approach that was used by taking the reader through the interpretive process
as it occurred.



Tuesday, March 27, 2001
4.30 pm
Irish Studies, Connolly House
Boston College

Coordinator: Ruth-Ann M. Harris

Email: harrisrd[at]bc.edu

Ruth-Ann M. Harris, Adjunct Prof of History and Irish Studies, Boston
College
Note new e-mail address: harrisrd[at]bc.edu
Home Phone: (617)522-4361; FAX:(617)983-0328; Office Phone:(617)552-1571
Summer and Weekend Number: (Phone) (603) 938-2660

[The following item appeared on the Irish Studies list, and is of interest,
use and beauty. P.O'S.]


Subscribers to the Irish Studies List will be pleased to know of the recent
publication of Yeats and the Nineties, Yeats Annual No. 14: A Special
Number, edited by Warwick Gould.

Yeats Annual is the leading international research-level journal devoted to
the greatest twentieth-century poet in the English language. This latest
volume in the outstanding Yeats Annual series includes shorter notes and
reviews by such noted Yeats scholars as A. Norman Jeffares, John Harwood,
James Pethica, Wayne K. Chapman, Phillip L. Marcus, Deirdre Toomey and
Richard Allen Cave.

There are major essays on Yeats and the 1890s by Denis Donoghue, "Ireland:
Race, Nation, State: the Charles Stewart Parnell Lecture, 1998," R. A.
Gilbert on the "Origins and Development of the Golden Dawn," Pamela Bickley
on "Rossetti and Yeats in the Nineties," a lecture by Lionel Johnson: "The
Ideal of Thomas Davis" (1896), edited by Warwick Gould, "W. B. Yeats,
William Sharp, and Fiona Macleod: A Celtic Drama, 1897" by William F.
Halloran, and "Who Fears to Speak of Ninety-eight?" by Deirdre Toomey.

This book is indispensable for students of W. B. Yeats?s life and works. I
would like to point out to list-members that for a limited period a 20 per
cent discount is available to subscribers to this list when ordering
directly from the publisher. In the UK it may be purchased directly from
Palgrave, by visiting

http://www.palgrave.com/catalogue/catalogue.asp?Title_Id=033371640X

Readers in the United States may order copies directly from Palgrave at

http://www.palgrave.com/catalogue/catalogue.asp?Title_Id=033371640X

For further information about this and previous numbers of Yeats Annual,
including very useful links that allow the reader to view the contents of
Yeats Annual Numbers 3 to 13, please visit

http://www.sas.ac.uk/ies/yeatsannual.htm

Declan Kiely

From: Cymru66[at]aol.com
Subject: Re: Ir-D MacMillan and Paperbacks

Dear Paddy,
Just a couple of things. I'm delighted to hear that Kerby Miller is taking
on the task of investigating the history of the non-Catholic immigrants from
Ireland. In particular some enlightenment on the use of the term
'Scotch-Irish' would be very welcome to this sociologist who rarely heard
the
term during the more than a decade spent in Northern Ireland. It is a label
which has consequences within and outside of the group concerned. This was
brought home to me during a recent discussion with a historian colleague who
told me how much his non-Catholic Irish ancestors despised and resented the
label and wished to be regarded only as Irish, in terms of 'ethnic'
background.
My sympathy goes out to Frank Neal and Don. I recall an earlier discussion
we had on the list relating to the unavailability of important scholarly
work
and the pricing and distribution strategies of the major publishers. The
latter are purely market - driven. What the 'Education' sections of these
people want are books for which they can guarantee a mass sale to a captive
audience i.e. textbooks designed for undergraduates which have to be
purchased because they are 'required' by the professor. Sometimes they'll
accept books which are designed for graduate students but, ideally, the book
should appeal to both - or rather to the 'instructor' who is teaching the
Course. So, the crucial commercial concern is ' is this book undregraduate
course-related'. And, if it is, are there enough of these courses nationwide
to justify the risk. Some publishers still retain the pretence of being
really interested in scholarly work and so will publish, in hardback only
and
at prohibitive prices, the kind of work that Frank, Don and other members of
the list produce. But they calculate that the market for these books is
restricted almost entirely to University libraries so the issue will be very
limited and exclude paperbacks - libraries won't buy paperbacks, for obvious
reasons.
I came across this knowledge through personal experience which led me into
close discussions with publishers' editors and represesentatives who pester
me and my colleagues all the year round. Frank should be able to get his
copyright easily enough; the standard contract states explicitly that if the
publisher has not re-issued the book within a certain period of time the
author may give written notice to the publisher that he/she is claiming all
rights in the book, including that of re-publication with another firm. If
Frank does this - and I recommend that he does - then that leaves him free
to
do what he likes. However, if he should decide to market the book himself he
should take account of the costs. In publishing, the actual cost of printing
is only a small proportion of the total costs. Most of the rest go on
promotion and distribution - advertising and finding wholesale and retail
outlets to get the book to the consumer. The major publishers have sewn-up
most of the profitable retail outlets - the large bookstores - and the
latter
would demand discount pricing which would be way beyond the means of an
individual or even a small company. The best bet would be to try to find a
small publishing house willing to take on the risks of publishing
specialised
books but such houses are few and far between and tend not to survive for
long.
Sorry to sound so depressing. I did make a plea here that we all get
together in a mutually supportive operation to see if we can get the work
out
to the people we think would benefit from reading it. I still have this
hope.
You made a passing reference to a research project you're involved in
focusing on the needs of the Irish in Britain. Are you going to tell us more
about it or are you going to leave us in suspense?
Best,
John

Forwarded on behalf of Elfie Rembold

The new issue of National Identities, volume 3, Number
1 (dated March 2001) has arrived.

It's ToC is as follows:

European Integration and the Discourse of National
Identity in Estonia 5 - 21
Merje Feldman

National Identity between Tradition and Reflexive
Modernisation: The Contradictions of Central Asia 23 -
35
Andrew Phillips; Paul James

National Identity Formation in the Baltic Provinces of
the Russian Empire: The Skerst Family in the Nineteenth
and Twentieth Centuries 37 - 49
John Perkins; Felix Patrikeeff

Political Institutions, Elites, and Territorial
Identity Formation in Belgium 51 - 68
Andr=E9 Lecours

Understanding Local Responses to Globalisation: The
Production of Geographical Scale and Political Identity
69 - 87
Christopher D. Merrett

Book Reviews 89 - 101

----------------------------------------
Elfie Rembold
Co-editor of National Identities
Universitaet Hannover
Historisches Seminar
Im Moore 21
D-30167 Hannover
Phone : ++49+511 762 19839
=46ax : ++49+511 762 4479
Office : rembold[at]mbox.hist-sem.uni-hannover.de
Home : elfrem[at]transmedia.de

From: oliver[at]doyle-marshall.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: Ir-D Irish 'myths'- work

Paddy:

Thinking about your query in the context of other American slavery-based
labour systems, I turned to Jonathan Curry
, substituting "Cuba" for "US" (Jonathan,
by the way, is a student at the University of North London [Caribbean
Studies] researching a PhD dissertation with a working title "The
experience, identity and influence of British and Irish migrant machinists
in Cuba (1837-1868)"). Jonathan's research is taking something of a turn
as he's also looking at the position of Irish "navvies" in Cuba, the
country in the Americas where, apart from Brazil, slavery endured the
longest, with emancipation only occuring in 1886 (in Brazil it was 1888).
I , for one, found Jonathan's reply (forwarded with his permission) very
interesting.

Oliver Marshall
CBS/Oxford


Since labour was in great shortage in Cuba in the mid-nineteenth century,
all available sources appear to have been utilised. On the railways, this
involved bringing in Canary Islanders and Irish. Both of these groups had
the added advantage of being white - race being of such central concern to
the white Cuban elite at the time. While rival bids were put in for the
building of the railways, I have no evidence that they divided as to source
of labour - and it is probable that they would have all sought to draw on
simliar sources: a mixture of hired slaves, immigrant Irish and Canary
Islanders, indentured Chinese. However, it is conceivable that such a
distinction as you describe may have occured - and it may be worth looking
into.

The Irish navvies did not appear to gain much advantage through their skin
colour. I have a fair amount of material relating to the abominable
conditions in which they were working on the rail lines - they were
treated, in many instances, at least as badly as the slaves... and, since
they were wage labourers, quite possibly worse. Enticed there with the
promise of financial benefits, they were cheated in Cuba, and when they
couldn't work, they were left to starve on the streets with no means of
returning from whence they came (in most instances, the United States).

As far as preferring the Irish for dangerous jobs: the slaves used on the
railways were generally hired, so concerns about preserving the value of
their property may not have been uppermost in the minds of the railway
contractors. However, responsibility for the building of the railways was
as often as not placed in the hands of foreign civil engineers, the most
influential of which were North American. The machinery being brought in
came, largely, from the United States (once British technology had been
ousted from the Cuban railways, from early on). They may have had a
preference for Irish navvies, for language reasons, and for previous
familiarity with them as workers. Nevertheless, the Irish, unused to
tropical climates and lacking immunity to tropical diseases, appear to have
fallen ill and died in quite staggering numbers, with time making their use
impractical - cheap though they might have been.... or at least this is
what has generally been claimed till now. In fact, at the end of the
1850s, over twenty years after the first Irish labourers arrived to build
the railroad, there were still gangs of them working, still in appalling
conditions, suffering extremes of cruelty at the hands of their employers,
who were still denying them the means to return home. .... So giving it
some thought, the thesis you suggest seems credible, and certainly worth
exploring in the Cuban case. I was intending to look at records relating
to the Cuban railroads, and their workers - so if I find anything more
definite, I'll let you know.

Sorry if this has been rather rambling, I was thinking things through as I
wrote.

Jonathon Curry


---------------------------------


>From Email Patrick O'Sullivan

Without wishing to add to the lenghtening list of 'myths' about the Irish
Diaspora...

What evidence do we actually have that southern US slave-owners preferred
to use Irish labourers for dangerous jobs? The only source for this that I
can think of is Frederick Law Olmstead, whose book was (I think) first
published in 1856, and where the suggestion is retailed as hearsay anecdote
- - 'I have heard it said', or words to that effect.

Do we have - ooh, for example - a case study of a bid to build a railway,
with one contractor putting in a slave-owner's bid, and another contractor
putting in an Irish navvy bid, and the second bid being the cheaper?

P.O'S.

From: Robert Grace
Subject: Re: Ir-D Query Murphy riots 6

From: Robert Grace
re: anti-Catholic preachers

Alexander Peach may wish also to look into the riot that occurred in Quebec
City
in 1853 when Gavazzi came to preach at a Protestant church in the city. The
Irish Catholics in town were waiting for him outside the church and the
ruckus
which followed caused several injuries to the people who had come to listen
to
him. At the inquest which followed, the city police were blamed for not
intervening to protect the audience from the mob. This non-intervention on
the
part of the police was due to the fact that the chief of police and at least
two-thirds of the contables were Irish Catholics. A familiar story with the
tables turned in Catholic Quebec.

Robert Grace

irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk wrote:

> From: Liz Newton
> Subject: Re: Ir-D Query Murphy riots 5
>
> alex, the Canadian plains research unit at university of regina may know
of
> contact people who are writing about the irish in the prairies. you can
> contact them at www.uregina.ca
>
> Liz
>
> irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk wrote:
>
> > From: Alexander Peach
> > Subject: RE: Ir-D Query Murphy riots 3
> >
> > Thanks for that Don.
> >
> > Yes I have been a little shy in publishing my work, this about to
change.
> I
> > am of the opinion that scholars should first and foremost think and
> perhaps
> > publishing less can lead to better quality, but not an advanced career
in
> > the UK unfortunately.
> >
> > In reply to Oliver Marshall's original query - of course I would be more
> > than happy to help and I have
> > already contacted him off list.
> >
> > I have a cunning plan (first suggested by Don MacRaild) to do a
> comparative
> > project of anti-Irish/Catholic preachers in Britain and the Americas.
> > Although as far as I know Murphy did not travel there (although news of
> the
> > Birmingham riot reached those shores) another itinerant anti-Catholic
> > preacher who visited Birmingham - Italian nationalist and apostate
priest
> > Father Alessandro Gavazzi - was instrumentally (I'm led to believe)
> > involved in an anti-Catholic riot in Montreal. There are others I am
sure
> > and this -along with the organisational links and historical context
> > surrounding them - is what I would like to investigate. The Nativist
> > ructions and Know-Nothing disturbances bear striking resemblances to
> > anti-Irish agitations over here but in a different time frame. I am
> > thinking of approaching a funding body here about this project and
> wondered
> > if any of the big brains out there could point me in the direction of
> > archives in Canada and the USA or indeed anyone foolish enough to
furnish
> > me with funding or just a desk to operate from while over there.
> >
> > Best wishes and cheekily yours,
> >
> > Dr. Alex Peach.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
[SMTP:irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk]
> > Sent: 21 March 2001 12:00
> > To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
> > Subject: Ir-D Query Murphy riots 3
> >
> > From: Don MacRaild
> > Subject: RE: Ir-D Query Murphy riots
> >
> > The most recent work on the Murphy Riots is in Alex Peach's PhD
> > thesis. It contains a very detailed, updated study of the
> > Midlands Murphy phenomenon, linking the man himself to the
> > local Orange Order and, more generally, to Birmingham's
> > unique(ish) brand of popular Protestant anti-Catholicism. It
> > takes a good deal further than the still important works
> > of Roger Swift and W.L. Arnstein, not least because
> > Peach has found new material. However, Alex really needs
> > to get this stuff into the public sphere before he allows
> > the rest of to pick over the bones. Dreadfully jealous-
> > sounded, I know, but he's got a career to think about.
> > On this side of the pond we are all obsessed with
> > the measurement of research outputs, etc. which is
> > having a deleterious effect on scholarly sharing!
> >
> > That said, it's up to him if he wants to share his as yet
> > unpublished work ....
> >
> > Don MacRaild
> >

Forwarded for information...

The following appeared in
PROFESSIONAL IRELAND
_______________________________________________________________________
Issue No.291 March 21, 2001 Circulation: 21,461
=======================================================================

http://www.emigrant.ie/


UNIVERSITY OF ULSTER

FACULTY OF ART, DESIGN & HUMANITIES

ACADEMY FOR IRISH CULTURAL HERITAGES

The Academy represents a unique departure in scholarship and research
in Irish historical, heritage, linguistic and literary studies. It is
being established by the University of Ulster as a result of its
successful application for funding to the Support Programme for
University Research in Northern Ireland (SPUR). The Academy will
expand the existing high research profile in three Units of Assessment:
History, Celtic Studies and English. It will become the investigative
engine charged with integrating the University's research strategy into
the enormous changes occurring in Irish cultures both within the island
and abroad. Underpinning the core vision of the Academy are the
reconceptualisations of identity that dominate contemporary social and
cultural theory, but which have yet to resonate significantly through
many dimensions of Irish society at home and abroad.

In the first instance the University now seeks to appoint the following
staff to the Academy:

- - Chair in Irish & English Literary History and
- - Chair in Irish Language & Literature.
- - Chair in Irish & English Literary History (Ref: C01/063) - The post
is based at the Magee Campus in Londonderry.
- - Chair in Irish Language & Literature (Ref: C01/064) - The post is
based at the Magee Campus in Londonderry.
- - Lectureship in Heritage Management (Ref: C01/066) - The post will be
tenable at the Coleraine Campus in the first instance.
- - Lectureship in Irish Folklore (Ref: C01/067) - The post will be
tenable at the Coleraine Campus in the first instance.
- - Lectureship in Irish Women's Writing (Ref: C01/068) - The post will
be tenable at the Coleraine Campus in the first instance.
- - Lectureship in History & Place as Heritage (Ref: C01/069) - The post
will be tenable at the Magee Campus, Londonderry.
- - Senior Research Fellow (Ref: C01/070) - The post is tenable at the
Magee Campus, Londonderry.

Informal enquiries regarding any of the above posts may be made to:
Professor Brian Graham by telephone +44-28-70324413 or
mailto:bj.graham[at]ulst.ac.uk

Salary:
Lectureships: Stg18,731-Stg30,967 per annum
Senior Research Fellow: Stg29,332 per annum

Closing Date: Chairs - April 6, 2001
Lectureships and Senior Research Fellow - March 30, 2001

Interview Date: C01/063 - April 27; C01/064 - May 10(Provisional);
C01/066 - May 14; C01/067 - May 16; C01/068 - May 28;
C01/069 - May 15; C01/070 - May 8

Further details and application forms may be obtained from:

THE RECRUITMENT OFFICE, UNIVERSITY OF ULSTER AT COLERAINE,
CROMORE ROAD, COLERAINE, CO. LONDONDERRY, BT52 1SA

Tel: +44-28-70324946 or internal extension 4957.

An equal opportunities employer, the University encourages application
from both men and women, those with disabilities and those from all
sections of the community. All applications will be considered on
merit. The University operates a no smoking policy.

From: Marion Casey
Subject: Re: Ir-D Books & Publishers

I've been forwarding the postings regarding publishers to a friend of
mine with many years experience as a bookseller here in the USA. Today
I received this e-mail and pass it on to the list:

"Marion, If you think this is any help and you want to submit it to the
conversation, please do. St. Martin's (U.S.) has two divisions Trade and
Scholarly, that do not interact with each other. All the Scholarly are
originated in England by Macmillan and all are always extremely
expensive and give only short discount to booksellers. The only recourse
writers have is to find out the terms before they sign the contract and
if possible negotiate to get the paperback rights for themselves. If
they cannot, then it is best to go to another publisher (if they can
find one). It would probably be better, for any book on the Great Famine
or Irish immigration history to try to publish it first at a U.S.
university press."

Best wishes,
Marion

From: Alexander Peach
Subject: RE: Ir-D anti-Catholic preachers

Many thanks to Robert and Liz for this information. The Quebec incident is
very interesting as in Birmingham in 1867 when Murphy instigated a mass
riot the Irish were attacking the audience to Murphy's lecture but the
tables turned when a English mob turned on the Irish. The police joined in
on the English side according to a number of different accounts. Some
similarities, arguably the police were sectarian to some extent in both
cases. I would be interested in who invited Gavazzi and what the political
context of the city was at this time.

Best wishes,

Alex Peach

- -----Original Message-----
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk [SMTP:irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk]
Sent: 22 March 2001 18:30
To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Ir-D anti-Catholic preachers


From: Robert Grace
Subject: Re: Ir-D Query Murphy riots 6

From: Robert Grace
re: anti-Catholic preachers

Alexander Peach may wish also to look into the riot that occurred in Quebec
City
in 1853 when Gavazzi came to preach at a Protestant church in the city. The
Irish Catholics in town were waiting for him outside the church and the
ruckus
which followed caused several injuries to the people who had come to listen
to
him. At the inquest which followed, the city police were blamed for not
intervening to protect the audience from the mob. This non-intervention on
the
part of the police was due to the fact that the chief of police and at
least
two-thirds of the contables were Irish Catholics. A familiar story with the
tables turned in Catholic Quebec.

Robert Grace

irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk wrote:

> From: Liz Newton
> Subject: Re: Ir-D Query Murphy riots 5
>
> alex, the Canadian plains research unit at university of regina may know
of
> contact people who are writing about the irish in the prairies. you can
> contact them at www.uregina.ca
>
> Liz
>
> irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk wrote:
>
> > From: Alexander Peach
> > Subject: RE: Ir-D Query Murphy riots 3
> >
> > Thanks for that Don.

From: Hilary Robinson
Subject: Re: Ir-D Books & Publishers 2

fyi: a colleague has had two books published with Manchester UP in p/b then
published in the US with St Martins, also in p/b - in a different academic
field, feminist art theory, but that shouldn't be an issue. the issue seems
to be the relation between macmillan & st martins. but then another
colleague had a difficult time with macmillan also....
Hilary

>From: Marion Casey
>Subject: Re: Ir-D Books & Publishers
>
>I've been forwarding the postings regarding publishers to a friend of
>mine with many years experience as a bookseller here in the USA. Today
>I received this e-mail and pass it on to the list:
>
>"Marion, If you think this is any help and you want to submit it to the
>conversation, please do. St. Martin's (U.S.) has two divisions Trade and
>Scholarly, that do not interact with each other. All the Scholarly are
>originated in England by Macmillan and all are always extremely
>expensive and give only short discount to booksellers. The only recourse
>writers have is to find out the terms before they sign the contract and
>if possible negotiate to get the paperback rights for themselves. If
>they cannot, then it is best to go to another publisher (if they can
>find one). It would probably be better, for any book on the Great Famine
>or Irish immigration history to try to publish it first at a U.S.
>university press."
>
>Best wishes,
>Marion


_______________________________

Dr. Hilary Robinson
School of Art and Design
University of Ulster at Belfast
York Street
Belfast BT15 1ED
Northern Ireland
UK


direct phone/fax: (+44) (0) 28 9026.7291)

From Email Patrick O'Sullivan

Right.

Yes.

Well.

There's a thing...

Wouldn't you know...

We have had SOME entries to our traditional Ir-D St. Patrick's Day
Competition - HOMAGE TO MACKMORRICE...

We have already had enough to demonstrate that there is a potential moral
dilemma here - some of these things are so eerily plausible that you dread
the possibility that they will escape from captivity and join all the other
'urban legends' about the Irish Diaspora.

The best one, so far, analyses the Serbian poem Takovska zora, and
establishes that the Serbian liberator Milo? Obrenovic was in reality one
Miles O?Brien...

But we have also had enough entries to see that some competitors have not
QUITE grasped the concept, and the rules...

People did warn me - I was warned about this.

So, this year we are going to abandon our traditional Ir-D St. Patrick's Day
Competition, and institute our Ir-D Traditional Easter Competition - HOMAGE
TO MACKMORRICE...

It is the same competition, and entries already submitted are still
eligible. But we are now going to move the closing date to Monday April 30,
2001.

NOW - going through the rules again, [with explanatory notes in square
brackets]...

The theme of our Competition this year, 2001, is

HOMAGE TO MACKMORRICE...
'Who talkes of my Nation?'

1.
Competitors are invited to to take a text,
ANY text,
a short poem or a short piece of prose,
in ANY language,

[The chosen piece of text MUST be a pre-existing text. Competitors are not
allowed to simply invent a text, and then analyse it. It would be nice if
the text can be found in standard anthologies, but that is not strictly
required.]

2.
and show...
- - either through internal evidence,
or in-depth research,
or both -
that this text disguises...

EITHER a vicious attack on the Irish
OR secret praise of the Irish.
But not both.

[Without labouring the gag... The key point here is that the text should
have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the Irish, and should not
mention the Irish. The 'disguised' attack on the Irish or praise of the
Irish must be visible only to the most paranoid or partisan commentator, and
it is the competitor's wrongheaded task to 'discover', source and justify
this blame or praise. Competitors are NOT asked to simply submit obscure
quotations in which the Irish are, genuinely, in fact, blamed or praised.]

3.
Marks will be given for...

1. misdirected erudition,
2. linguistic ingenuity,
3. ghastly plausibility,
4. and sheer bloodymindedness.

[The ghastly plausibility bit is already giving me nightmares...]

4.
Entries should be sent as an email to this special St. Patrick's Day
Competition address


The sending of that email to that competition address will be taken
as confirmation that the email is a Competition entry,
and as permission to share choice entries with the wider Irish-Diaspora
list.

All members of the Irish-Diaspora list - INCLUDING past prize winners - can
submit entries.

To clarify a further query - communal and joint entries are accepable.

Entries from people who are not members of the Irish-Diaspora list are
acceptable.

Decisions of the Competition Committee are final.

The closing date for Competition entries is now Monday, April 30, 2001.

So.

Now.

Some examples...
Is William Blake's 'Tiger, Tiger, burning bright' a critique of the
over-heating Irish economy?
Is Pablo Neruda's 'Leviathan' - 'drowsy and gentle beast' - a criticism of
the political weakness of the Irish Diaspora?
Is Georg Trakl's 'Decline' an account of the sad sojourn of Irish navvies in
Germany? - 'Over the white pond the wild birds have travelled on...'

Is that clear?

What a fiasco...

P.O'S.

- --
Patrick O'Sullivan
Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit

Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Email Patrick O'Sullivan

Irish-Diaspora list
Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/

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Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Department of Interdisciplinary Human Studies
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Yorkshire
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From Email Patrick O'Sullivan

This debate is rolling around the Internet at the moment, and the Ir-D list
might as well be aware of it...

A sample, below, from the H-Ethnic list...

P.O'S.


Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 06:35:24 -0500
From: "Richard Jensen"
Subject: corruption

x-post: H-High-S
From: Robert J. Nuxoll
Subject: Re: Re: Slavery Reparations

Dear colleagues,

Many of the Irish who immigrated during the 19th century
were as denigrated and as ill prepared for American economic
success as the emancipated slaves. Their rates of murder,
mayhem and alcohol abuse matched or exceeded that of the
newly emancipated African-Americans. The Catholic Church
provided schooling and their own politicians and police
provided what would today be called "affirmative action".
As late as the 1920's they faced signs, "Irish need not
apply", but they never saw the prejudice that our Black
population faced: lynchings, voter discrimination, military
segregation, and the right to present themselves as equals
after acquiring the manners and education.
I would be more willing to accept the rantings of the "We
don't owe them anything" crowd if they ever displayed a
willingness to give Blacks the same opportunity the Irish
had in education, the police, the army, national politics
and in courts of law. Colin Powell is the exception, not
the rule. When will we give the inner-city minorities equal
education, health care or even control of their own police?
If you doubt that it can work, look at the rise of the
Irish. If one looks at the Irish success story and believes
that the African-Americans are incapable of matching that
success, then one should question one's own prejudice.

Robert J. ("Bob") Nuxoll
Oceanside HS
Oceanside, Long Island, NY

--------------------------
from Richard Jensen rjensen[at]uic.edu

Three comments on Bob Nuxoll's post on the Irish:
1. "No Irish Need Apply" signs never actually existed. They
were a metaphor, like "American streets are paved with
gold." The so-called signs come from an Irish song of the
1870s that was popular in saloons for many decades. After a
few rounds of singing & drinking you could read the sign;
after a few more rounds you could see a leprechaun. However,
no sober archivist, museum curator or historian has ever
located such a sign, or even a photograph of one.

2. "Affirmative action" for Irish was applied by Irish judges
and politicians, who let Irish criminals off because of
ethnic solidarity, or hired Irish workers because of their
ethnicity. It was roundly denounced as a major scandal and
inspired a great deal of effort to destroy the machines.
Tammany Hall in Manhattan was especially notorious, and the
reputation hurt Al Smith badly when he ran for president in
1928. (Smith himself was clean and honest, but his
associates were pretty bad and many went to prison or were
indicted or even forced to flee the country like Smith's
close associate New York Mayor Jimmy Walker in 1933.) The
first Mayor Daley of Chicago was the last of the great Irish
bosses. He worked to clean up the Irish act, but many of his
non-Irish colleagues went to prison, such as Governor Otto
Kerner and powerful Congressman Dan Rostenkowski.
There are many revealing stories about Boston -- The
"Last Hurrah" is a famous novel & my students like the
movie a lot. See the eye-opening stories about Irish
favoritism & corruption in chapters 2-3 of the
excellent new biography of Speaker Tip O'Neill by John
Farrell.
I think anyone who says that Blacks have a right to
duplicate the historic corruption and crimes of the Irish,
(and should "control" the police in their communities)
because it's their turn now, will have a very hard time
convincing the court of public opinion, let alone criminal
courts.

3. In comparative perspective, corruption is a big deal these
days. We see major scandals at the presidential level in
France & Peru right now, and in Germany last year. A few
years ago the Japanese and Italian political systems
collapsed under the weight of corruption. Reformers have
replaced extraordinarily corrupt regimes in Mexico and
Nigeria (and maybe we can count Russia).

Historian John Pocock traced the corruption theme through
classical history and Machiavelli, emphasizing it was a
powerful but minority voice in Britain in the 18th century.
The leaders of the American Revolution listened closely to
that minority (or "Country" party), and shaped the
republican ethos of the USA in terms of corruption as a
terrible evil. We still see it that way, with the Senate
debating it right now (in terms of $$ donations to parties),
and the nation appalled at the petty-cash corruption of
President and Senator Clinton this past January. (Hauling
away the White House china was bad enough, but selling
access to pardons was unpardonable.)

From Email Patrick O'Sullivan

Forwarded for information, on behalf of...

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