From: Carmel McCaffrey
Subject: Re: Ir-D Irish in Edinburgh, and Jokes 5

I disagree that this image of Irish stupidity is not present in the USA. I
recently had occasion to call Guinness here in the US about their "Irish
joke" ads as regards the introduction of bottled Guinness.
Guinness really did not care and the ads are still running - mostly on
cable and during football games.
Simply put, the ads depict two 'stupid' Irish men with really thick Irish
accents who work for Guinness at James Gate and have just "discovered" that
Guinness can be drunk straight from a bottle - and then to compound their
"thickness" one of them also discovers sliced bread. To me, a native Irish
person, it is very offensive and if it is not causing ripples it is because
the Irish-Americans who view it are not sensitized to the insulting
depiction of people with Irish accents as being stupid.

Carmel

From: Avril Tobin
To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Irish in Edinburgh, jokes

Thanks Paddy, for your very informative email. The 'jokes' issue is a
strange one.

When my daughter was starting primary school two years ago, my partner and I
searched for a 'multi-cultural' school that we felt would respect her
cultural background, as well as those of her school mates. We thought we
had made the right choice until day one, when on entering the school we were
confronted with a large poster labeled "Irish office timetable" and what
followed was the usual tirade implying that the Irish were stupid, lazy,
drunken people.
Obviously we were upset and asked that it be taken down and this was done,
but it struck me at the time that it was doubtful that this would have
happened (particularly in a public institution) to any other ethnic
group...i.e. there seems to be something about 'Irish' in Britain that it is
perceived a 'legitimate' target for this specific form of racism in a way
that no other group is. I would add that the primary school in question is
a highly respected state school in Edinburgh.

Avril

From: "Thomas J. Archdeacon"
Subject: Re: Ir-D Irish in Edinburgh, and Jokes 4

The Irish Joke is an interesting phenomenon. It is no longer particularly
common in the U.S., if one does not count in the pattern some silly
leprechaun nonsense around St. Patrick's Day and the distasteful advertising
toying around the edges of stereotypes about the Irish and drink. Irish
jokes existed in times past, but seem to have faded even before p.c. times,
perhaps due to the risks previously associated with annoying those Irish in
America who lived up to stereotypical reputations for responding physically
to insults. In any case, most American ethnic humor tends to be formulaic,
with the same jokes able to work simply by slipping any of a variety of
ethnic groups into the starring role. When it came to telling ethnic jokes,
the Irish gave as good as they got.

Depending on circumstances, ethnic humor could help form bonds among friends
from different ethnic groups. When I was a young man in NYC, Irish and
Italian friends used to have virtual contests telling each other the most
over-the-edge jokes about each other. The free exchange actually marked the
evolution of generations in each group who, in effect, were telling each
other, "We're not like our parents' generation; we know we don't seriously
mean these remarks." On the other hand, it probably also served as a
reminder, "We're friends, but it wasn't always so, and might not remain so,
if you ever screw with us."

The Irish joke in Britain seems to be a more persistent form. I even
remember seeing on PBS (that most sanctimonious of networks) a "Rumpole of
the Bailey" episode in which the genial Horace refers to a hammer as an
"Irish screwdriver." It has undoubted roots in the longtime status of the
Irish on the big island as menial workers, persons recently arrived from the
hinterlands, political irritants, and religious deviants. What I wonder is
whether, for most of today's Britons, the Irish joke is anything more than a
folk form without substantive comment. Are the Irish now seen as so much a
part of the core population -- in contrast with Afro-Caribbeans, South
Asians, etc. -- that no one believes they can be hurt?

Please be calm. The questions above are just that -- questions, raised for
the sake of stimulating the argument. I am not trying to justify hurtful
humor, and I do get annoyed when the society's self-appointed moral
watchdogs make distinctions -- especially ones negatively affecting me --
between those peoples deserving social respect and those deserving "business
as usual." Moreover, I spent several months in London a few years ago and
was struck by the low profile the Irish population maintained. I was quite
surprised when people at the Action Group for Irish Youth commented
wistfully about spending time in the U.S., where -- in their opinion -- the
Irish flaunted their ethnicity.

Tom

From:
Paddy Walls
WallsAMP[at]aol.com

I think the issue of jokes is a complicated one - there is the case that it
seems to be done by British people, even sometimes as a means to make a
friendly connection as though it had never crossed their minds that they
might be erroneous or insulting, as though they are using their known
'facts' about the Irish, and illustrating their cultural competence. Or else
people try to start a new friendship by stating categorically that they
don't think the Irish are stupid...(was someone asking you?)...

But joking about stupidity is only one aspect of many stereotypes and not
just a feature of White British understandings. A few years ago I heard some
young Black school girls chatting on a train in London about a boy who had
got mad because he had been called stupid, and they were discussing and
explaining to one girl who didn't quite understand, that it was because he
was Irish and therefore stupid, as everyone knows.

Below are a couple of quotes from my data from interviews with Glasgow
Catholics of Irish descent, where Irishness emerges as firstly, a possible
explanation for being stupid; secondly when Irish stupidity is challenged
and replaced by the more laudatory? Irish? skill of ripping off the tax
man..

...well Scottish, Scottish or British. I wouldn't say I was Irish, cos of
some of the stupid things I do or say, but that's not Irish, I think that
comes from my mum

(3rd generation Irish working class woman - identifying herself as
ethnically Scottish or British, although she does consider Irish, only as
she feels she is somewhat stupid, but then attributes this to her mother
instead, who was of course Irish second generation...)

...He's a joiner as well so they claimed 2 joiners wages so or very astute
know I mean they say the Irish are thick but no an awful lot of intelligent
people, not intelligent, shrewd people, for a better word, knew all the
angles

(3rd generation Irish working class man - referring to Irish-born friend
working a scam in building trade...)

I think that being considered stupid is a distinct advantage when doing
social research, particularly on sensitive subjects such as sectarianism,
bigotry, Irishness, etc, as you are definitely seen as as a kind of blank
slate onto which people may expound at length, and in complex detail, about
the politics of hatred. Being a woman is additionally helpful...

Paddy Walls

In reply to the earlier message suggesting that people in Britain no longer
believe that the Irish can be hurt by 'jokes', I think that may be part of
the issue. These 'jokes' are part of the popular discourse of Irishness in
Britain, and are now often seen as acceptable in a way that discriminatory
remarks against other ethnic minorities aren't.
However, what is important here? Is it the point of view of the 'joker', or
that of the person at whom the 'joke' is directed? Research into the Irish
community in Britain continually points to the experience of this form of
racism as being particularly problematic not only for emigrants themselves,
but also for their children, visiting relatives, their working
relationships, friendships etc. Children in particular can be very upset and
bewildered by it. I don't think its enough to say that 'they' don't mean it
when so many find it hurtful, irritating and/or insulting.

Avril

From: Brian Lambkin
To: "'irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk'"
Subject: RE: Ir-D Master and Commander

This fine observation reminds me of how the 'doxology' (for thine is the
kingdom ... )presented a challenge for teachers at the start of Lagan
College in Belfast in 1981. A fair bit of work had to go into disentangling
the notion that there was a Catholic 'Our Father' and a Protestant 'Lord's
Prayer'.

Best wishes for the season and another stimulating year ahead on the Ir-D
list

Brian Lambkin

- -----Original Message-----

From: "Thomas J. Archdeacon"
Subject: Master and Commander

P.O'S mentions the attention to detail in "Master and Commander." I think I
caught a remarkably good example. Did anyone else notice that, in the
prayer service near the end of the film, Maturin seemed to stop his
recitation of the Lord's Prayer after the phrase, "but deliver us from
evil"? That would have been where a Catholic would have stopped. It's only
since Vatican II that Catholics have begun, at least during the Mass, to add
"For thine is the power ..." phrase that concludes the traditional
Protestant version. Inasmuch as the film calls just a bit of attention to
Maturin's Irish background and none -- as far as I can remember -- to his
Catholicism, that's a neat bit of accuracy.

Season's Greetings to all.

Tom Archdeacon

From: "Brian McGinn"
To: "irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk"
Subject: RE: Ir-D The Son of a Clare man

Paddy,

A follow-up, and minor correction, to the Irish Independent story posted by
Carmel (below).

Col. Hickey's mother is from Aclare, Co. Sligo--not Co. Mayo as stated in
the Independent:

http://www.irishecho.com/newspaper/story.cfm?id=13938

Not a big deal, some would say, except for those who happen to have a mother
from Sligo and a spouse from Mayo....

Brian McGinn
Alexandria, Virginia
bmcginn2[at]earthlink.net




> [Original Message]
> From:
> To:
> Date: 12/16/2003 6:34:32 AM
> Subject: Ir-D The Son of a Clare man
>
> From: Carmel McCaffrey
> Subject: "The Son of a Clare man" Irish Independent
>
> I cut and pasted this story from the Irish Independent about the
> capture
of
> Saddam... It might be of interest to the Ir-D list.
>
> Carmel
>
>
> 'It took the son of a Clare man to get him'
>
> "IT TOOK the son of a Clare man to capture Saddam Hussein."
>
> These were the words last night of Mary Queally from Dromelihy in West
> Clare, aunt of the United States colonel who headed up Operation Red
> Dawn, which led to the capture of the former Iraqi dictator.
>
> Colonel James B Hickey is commander of the US Army's 4th Infantry
Division's
> 1st Brigade in Iraq. His father, James Snr, now 73, is from Cooraclare
> in West Clare, and moved to Chicago when he was 18. Colonel Hickey's
> mother, Anne Marie, is from Co Mayo.
>

It seems that (at least in colonial times and up to the mid-19th century)
the trend in South America has been the opposite to other places, with some
Irish trying to adopt Spanish and Portuguese names (not Irish-Amerindian
names recorded so far!).

Brian McGinn reminded me of the Argentine caudillos from Córdoba, Reynaf
brothers, whose original family name according to Eduardo Coghlan (1987) was
Kennefeacky. They were famous for the murdering in 1834 of another caudillo,
Facundo Quiroga. Brian McGinn also mentioned Francis O'Farrell in Colombia,
who changed his name to Francisco Puyana, Fr Wadding, S.J. from Waterford,
who appeared as Miguel Godinez, and Franciscan friar John Lamport from
Wexford ("brother of the notorious William who is alleged to be the model
for 'Zorro'") recorded as Fray Juan Lombardo. In Brazil there are some
families with names like Morfi, Muraya, Gainore, which I was told were
Murphy, Murray and Gaynor, as well as Raposa (derived from Fox). In
Argentina, I have identified Cabaña for Cavanagh, Carel for Carroll, Gigan
for Geoghegan, Gil for Healy, Macán for MacCann, Maguirre for Maguire, etc.

Initially the reason for concealing Irish names would have been related to
Spanish colonial restrictions and language (phonetic) reasons. However in
the 20th century Irish surnames were conspicuously added to Spanish and
Italian names in compounds like "Di Carlo Walsh" or "Argüello Muldowney" or
"Olmedo McKenna". It seems that an Irish family name adds some social
prestige and in some cases (as for the economist "Lopez Murphy") may also
attract some votes.

Edmundo Murray
Irish Argentine Historical Society
Maison Rouge
1261 Burtigny Switzerland
+41 22 739 5049
www.irishargentine.org
PLEASE REPLY TO:
edmundo.murray[at]irishargentine.org

From: "Richard Jensen"
To:
Subject: Re: Ir-D Irish in Edinburgh, and Jokes 8

Regarding Irish jokes in America.
For the last 100 years I can't recall a single example of Irish-as-stupid
joke. Bridget-the-maid was portrayed that way in the late 19th century.
(you can find traces left in the children's books about Amelia Bedilia, the
inept maid.)

Indeed in the last 50 years all Irish jokes are rare (though the
priest-rabbi-minister genre usually has an Irish priest.)

In terms of comedy created by the Irish in America: there's a vast amount,
and includes themes of alcoholism, cops, priests, nuns, politicians -- but
not stupid people (though Laurel and Hardy may be the exception). Jackie
Gleason & Art Carney were a great team but the theme was over-cleverness not
stupidity. The Keystone Kops image of the policeman is long gone. Irish
comedians (Fred Allen for example) long ago dropped the brogue.

As for cartoons, the formerly-Irish characters have lost their ethnicity or
(like Maggie and Jiggs) been dropped.

From:
To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Ir-D Irish in Edinburgh, and Jokes 9

On a tour of Ontario and New England in 1996, our Canadian driver told
dozens of jokes about stupid 'noofies', very similar in tone to the 'Irish'
jokes here in Britain. He was referring to people living in Newfoundland,
and having seen the film 'Shipping News' and other film-clips of the place
since, I assume this is because they have retained a strong Irish accent.

Veronica Summers


>
> From: "Richard Jensen"
> To:
> Subject: Re: Ir-D Irish in Edinburgh, and Jokes 8
>
> Regarding Irish jokes in America.
> For the last 100 years I can't recall a single example of
> Irish-as-stupid joke. Bridget-the-maid was portrayed that way in the late
19th century.
> (you can find traces left in the children's books about Amelia
> Bedilia, the inept maid.)
>
> Indeed in the last 50 years all Irish jokes are rare (though the
> priest-rabbi-minister genre usually has an Irish priest.)
>
> In terms of comedy created by the Irish in America: there's a vast
> amount, and includes themes of alcoholism, cops, priests, nuns,
> politicians -- but not stupid people (though Laurel and Hardy may be
> the exception). Jackie Gleason & Art Carney were a great team but the
> theme was over-cleverness not stupidity. The Keystone Kops image of
> the policeman is long gone. Irish comedians (Fred Allen for example) long
ago dropped the brogue.
>
> As for cartoons, the formerly-Irish characters have lost their
> ethnicity or (like Maggie and Jiggs) been dropped.
>

From osullivan[at]irishdiaspora.net

The following item, has been brought to our attention...

P.O'S.

From the TIN (Tibet Information Network, London) weekly digest:

17 December 2003

During Ireland's All-Party Parliamentary Committee on
Foreign Affairs Hearing on Tibet, Mrs. Kesang Takla,
Representative of the Dalai Lama based at the Office
of Tibet, London, made a speech in which she
acknowledged the efforts successive Irish governments
had made in supporting the Tibetan people since the
Chinese occupation in the 1950s. She quoted the then
Foreign Minister of Ireland, Mr. Frank Aiken, who
drew parallels between the historic plight of the
Irish and the Tibetans in appealing to the United
Nations General Assembly during its debate on Tibet
in 1959, saying, "The sympathy of the Irish people
going to the victims of imperialism is nothing new.
It goes out to the people of Tibet in their present
suffering as it did in the past." During her speech,
Mrs Takla also urged Ireland to push the case for the
appointment of a European Union Special
Representative for Tibetan Affairs, saying that it
would "constitute a major step in facilitating a
meaningful dialogue between Dharamsala and Beijing.
It will go a long way in resolving the issue of Tibet
peacefully". Following her address, Mrs Takla held
discussions with the Irish Minister of State for
Development Cooperation and Human Rights, Mr. Tom
Kitt TD, who announced funding of Euro 200,000
(US$248,417, UK#140,633) towards the development
needs of the Tibetan community based in India.

From osullivan[at]irishdiaspora.net

The following item, has been brought to our attention...

P.O'S.

Harvard Praises the Bard of Ballinasloe
By Michael P. Quinlin
http://www.irishecho.com/newspaper/story.cfm?id=13935

From: "Thomas J. Archdeacon"
To:
Subject: RE: Ir-D Irish in Edinburgh, and Jokes 10

Newfoundland has a strong Irish presence. The "Newfie" (or however it is
spelled) joke is a staple of Canadian humor. Its origin is both anti-Irish
and anti-Catholic, although some Newfie jokes have no apparent Irish or
Catholic content. Like the Guinness ad cited by Carmel, however, the
genesis of the Newfie joke is not the United States, although I am not sure
on which side of the border the Canadian driver was when he told the jokers.
A quick Google search on "Newfie jokes" came up with a site abstract that
stated, "Canadians tell newfie jokes like limeys tell Irish jokes." It's
probably a "British thing."

That same Newfie joke search led me to the following bit of Newfie
defensiveness. Interestingly, it seems much more concerned about the
general status of the province rather about its ethnic or religious makeup.
(Unless the number of pubs and the quality of humor suggests Irish traits,
but then the references to sex would probably point in another direction).
Maybe Newfie joke is morphing into New Jersey jokes.

Tom

If you're a Newfoundlander, you should be proud!
Here are a few tidbits of information that you may have never known before:
we were...
the first province to respond to Titanic's distress signal the first to
vaccinate for smallpox the first to host a transatlantic flight the first to
have wireless communication in the world the first place to discover proof
of the theory of continental drift we have...
the oldest street in North America
the oldest city in North America
the oldest rock in the world
the oldest continuous sporting event (Regatta Day rules!) the largest
university in Atlantic Canada the most pubs per square foot in Canada
(George Street) caught the world's largest invertebrate (giant squid) we
are...
the funniest people in Canada (ask anybody) the sexiest people in Canada
(Macleans magazine survey) the only province that has four identifiable
flags the only province able to land the space shuttle (Stephenville) the
most giving people in Canada (Stats Canada) the most sexually active people
in all of Canada (what else are we gonna
do?)
a Newfoundlander...
built the world's first artificial ice arena invented the gas mask was once
govenor of northern Rhodesia was with Abraham Lincoln at Gettysberg we are
the only province to have its own...
encyclopedia
dictionary
pony
dogs
cultural publication

By reading this, you now know more about Newfoundland than...well, almost
everyone!!

- -----Original Message-----

From:
To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Ir-D Irish in Edinburgh, and Jokes 9

On a tour of Ontario and New England in 1996, our Canadian driver told
dozens of jokes about stupid 'noofies', very similar in tone to the 'Irish'
jokes here in Britain. He was referring to people living in Newfoundland,
and having seen the film 'Shipping News' and other film-clips of the place
since, I assume this is because they have retained a strong Irish accent.

Veronica Summers

From:
To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Irish in Britain tv programme

Dear all
Members with an interest in the subject of the Irish in Britain may
wish to be made aware of the following:

RTE Television's 'Prime Time' current affairs team have recently been
investigating the plight of the marginalised older Irish in Britain.

The outcome of this investigation is a programe to be broadcast on RTE One
on December 22nd next, at 9.30 pm, entitled, 'Ireland's Forgotten
Generation'.

The RTE guide flags it as follows:
'(Prime Time') visits the underworld of the elderly Irish in England.
Abandoned in hostels and down the side-streets of suburbia, the men who
built Britain live out lives of appalling poverty, mental illness,
alcoholism and isolation'.

Prime Time have consulted such interested parties as The Episcopal Comission
for Emigrants, The London Irish Centre, and Bridge Housing Association
(which administers Arlington House Hostel in Camden Town) amongst many
others.

They have gone into Arlington House, which normally doesn't allow media
access, and visited some of the most run-down and degraded private
accommodation in which many of these men eke out their lives. Sadly much of
this sub-standard accommodation is itself owned by Irish citizens!

I spent a morning recently doing a 'walkabout' in North London with one of
their camera crews commenting on aspects of the problem but unfortunately a
fault in the sound recording equipment used on that occasion has made the
material unusable. I understand however that some of my observations have
been incorporated into the narrative.

I was impressed with the sincerity and concern of the programme makers and
encouraged by their evident determination to ask hard questions concerning
these people's welfare and the failure of succesive Irish governments to
assist them.

Prime Time will for example be asking why the 2002 Report of the Task Force
on Policy regarding Emigrants was so precipitately shelved by the Minister
for Foreign Affairs Brian Cowan.

These are the sad human beings behind the statistics and the stereotypes. We
owe them...I hope all those who can do so will watch this programme - and
act on it.

Best wishes of the Season to all.

Ultan Cowley

From osullivan[at]irishdiaspora.net

The following item has been brought to our attention...

Somewhat belatedly...

Note that the email, below, asks that the questionaire be returned 'if
possible by 23 December 2003'. I do not believe that anyone is going to sit
down and analyse these questionaires on Christmas Day. So, if you want a
little holiday task or game... Fill it in and send it in to
. NOT to me or Ir-D.

The Economic and Social Research Council is the major funder of social
science research in the United Kingdom - longterm members of the Ir-D list
will know that there is a long history of attempts to get the 'Irish' on its
research agenda, attempts which in recent years have actually met with some
success.

The ESRC Research Programmes usually involve the expenditure of some
millions of pounds and the creation of twenty or so specific research
projects - so that they can have a major impact on the shape and direction
of research.

P.O'S.


>>> Ethnicity
With sincere apologies for the short notice, and for any inevitable
duplication that, in an exercise of this kind, will result from cross
postings to different e-mail lists.

Ethnicity: division or cohesion? New challenges in a changing world.

Developing an ESRC Research Programme

The Economic and Social Research Council is considering funding a new
research programme devoted to ethnicity and ethnic relations. On behalf of
the Council, Professor Richard Jenkins of the University of Sheffield is
consulting with members of the social science community, and the public and
voluntary sectors, about this proposed programme.

It would be of great value to the Council if you could fill in the short
questionaire below. The themes and topics it outlines are intended to
stimulate critical thought, not as a definitive research agenda. Please feel
free to pass on this questionaire to any colleagues who you think might also
be interested.

Please return all returned questions, if possible by 23 December 2003, to:
ethnicity[at]sheffield.ac.uk

Thank you very much,

Richard Jenkins

____________________


ETHNICITY: QUESTIONAIRE

1. CONTEXTS OF ETHNICITY

From a United Kingdom perspective, there are a number of strategic
historical contexts within which ethnicity has become salient:

(a) Reflecting constitutional change and diversity, the meanings of what it
is to be English, Scottish, Welsh and Irish are increasingly divergent and
up for negotiation.

(b) The United Kingdom is part of an increasingly integrated globalised
system of economic, political, technological and cultural relationships and
transactions influences all aspects of everyday life.

(c) The United Kingdom is a post-colonial multi-ethnic state, within which
the third or fourth generation of minority ethnic communities and the white
British population are still trying to reach a modus vivendi.

(d) Membership of the European Union is expanding and there are substantial
resident populations from the other EU states who possess many citizenship
rights.

(e) The United Kingdom is an important destination in international flows of
refugee migration, receiving significant numbers of asylum seekers.

(f) The post-9/11 'Coalition of the Willing' may have polarised and
reinforced a Christian-Muslim, West-East confrontation that has a long
historical pedigree.


QUESTION 1.1

Please rank the above in order of their contemporary societal significance
from 5 (most significant) to 0 (least significant). Where relevant please
rank items as of equal significance

(a) .....................................[ ]

(b) .....................................[ ]

(c) .....................................[ ]

(d) .....................................[ ]

(e) .....................................[ ]

(f) .....................................[ ]


QUESTION 1.2

If there are there any contemporary historical contexts within which
ethnicity has become salient that, in your view, are not adequately covered
by the above, please use the space below to outline the omission(s) and its
(their) significance:








2. ANALYTICAL THEMES
Ethnicity can be analysed by focusing on the following themes (which are
overlapping and not exhaustive):

(a) How does ethnicity play out in the everyday experience of individuals?
This is a matter of self-identification and of categorisation by others; of
the consequences of ethnicity; of inclusion as well as exclusion; of
constraint and choice; and of individual participation in collective
activity.

(b) A global perspective contrasts with the insularity of many British
studies. For example, Muslims are a 'minority' only when seen through a
local lens, and international events, from September 11 to the war in Iraq,
have direct implications for Britain's Muslim citizens and their relations
with their neighbours. These relations, in their turn, feed back into wider
arenas. Less dramatically, an international perspective is important for
other reasons: 'community' reproduction is, for example, frequently bound up
with the migration of marriage partners from 'countries of origin'.

(c) After the urban disturbances of 2001, some analyses suggested that
self-segregation by minority ethnic communities undermines national social
cohesion. How effectively do conventional policy agendas handle voluntary
exclusion? Is the social inclusion agenda implicitly assimilationist? Where
is the balance struck between 'ethnic' decision-making, and rational
(economic or status) calculations that may be shared across ethnic
boundaries?

(d) The delivery and take-up of goods and services, in the public and
private sectors, is an aspect of participation and inclusion/exclusion. This
involves the possibility of distinct ethnic markets or sub-markets; the
nature of ethnically sensitive and appropriate service provision,
consultation and marketing; enduring ethnic patterns of economic and other
disadvantage; and the ways in which consumption may be used as a boundary
marker.

(e) What are the implications of ethnic diversity for governance? This
involves the legal dimensions of citizenship, understood as a portfolio of
duties as well as rights; the normative relationship between citizenship and
assimilation; the implications of ethnic diversity for governance; the
relationship between collective rights and individual rights; and the
implications of concepts of human rights.

(f) What is the role of media comment and other high profile or
authoritative public discourses - such as politics - in shaping and building
understandings of ethnicity? For example, how influential are these in
identifying ethnicity with minority communities, or creating a set of
Others? How do these discourses influence how people in minority communities
see themselves?

(g) To what extent may ethnicity be deployed as a political resource? Under
what circumstances may it become a liability? How do we analyse the
strategic use of ethnicity as a resource in making claims (for example to
leadership credentials)? How do we find ways to hear the unheard in such
situations (as, for example, in the characteristic invisibility of women in
much research on ethnicity)?

(h) Established and diverse world-views and systems of knowledge confront
each other across 'community boundaries'. What implications does this have
for fields such as ethics, education, science, medicine and politics? How
does this sit alongside principles such as democracy, freedom of expression,
and freedom of conscience?



QUESTION 2.1

Please rank the above in order of their significance to you, from 7 (most
significant) to 0 (least significant). Where relevant please rank items as
of equal significance

(a) .....................................[ ]

(b) .....................................[ ]

(c) .....................................[ ]

(d) .....................................[ ]

(e) .....................................[ ]

(f) .....................................[ ]

(g) .....................................[ ]

(h) .....................................[ ]




QUESTION 2.2

If there are there any analytical themes that, in your view, are not
adequately represented above, please use the space below to outline the
omission(s) and its (their) significance:











3. CATEGORIES AND CONCEPTS

How are established categories and concepts coping with changed
circumstances? A number of specific issues can be suggested:


(a) Why are some differences defined as ethnic and others not?

(b) How can we use ethnicity as a conceptual tool for understanding the
dynamics of majority communities and identities?

(c) How are we to conceptualise sub-national (or sub-state) communities such
as the Scots, the Welsh, the Irish, or the Northern English?

(d) What factors influence or govern claims to, and attributions of,
ethnicity?

(e) What is the difference and relationship between ethnicity and
'race'/racism?

(f) How should we understand communities of faith that transcend other
'ethnic' boundaries?

(g) Why are ethnic processes characteristically presumed to have a primary
causal effect whenever groups categorised as 'ethnic' are present?

(h) What is the difference between ethnicity and religion/faith?

(i) How should we problematise and analyse 'whiteness'?

(j) What can we learn from comparative analyses of ethnic and sub-national
communities elsewhere in the world?

(k) What is the relationship between ethnicity and other dimensions of
stratification, or markers of difference, such as class and, critically,
gender?

(l) What is the significance of our institutionally established
categorisation, measurement and assessment practices?

(m) What is the relationship between ethnicity and nationalism?

(n) What is the role of the state in constructing ethnicity?



QUESTION 3.1

Please list the five issues outlined above that you consider to be the most
significant and pressing for a social science research programme concerned
with ethnicity:





QUESTION 3.2

Are there any conceptual issues outlined above that you consider to be
trivial or irrelevant?







QUESTION 3.3

Are there any conceptual issues that, in your view, are not adequately
covered or represented above?








QUESTION 4.1

Are there any other comments you would like to make about ESRC's proposal to
fund a Research Programme devoted to ethnicity?













NAME:

INSTITUTIONAL AFFILIATION:

DISCIPLINE:

From Email Patrick O'Sullivan

The Christmas message from President Mary McAleese.

P.O'S.

Beannachtaí na Nollag ón Uachtarán Máire Mhic Ghiolla Íosa
Bheirim beannachtaí na Nollag agus mo dhea-ghuí don bhliain úr do mhuintir
na hÉireann agus do chairde na hÉireann cibé áit a bhfuil siad ar fud an
domhain. Tugtar seans dúinn gach bliain, am seo na Nollag, cairdeas a
athnuachan, athmhuintearas a chleachtadh, buíochas a ghabháil as cineáltas
ár gcairde agus machnamh a dhéanamh ar an chumas atá ag daoine teacht faoi
anáil a chéile.

Ba dhoiligh sampla níos fearr den chumas sin a aimsiú ná na Cluichí
Oilimpeacha Speisialta Domhanda a raibh sé de phribhléid againn iad a bheith
in Éirinn i mbliana. D?fhoghlaim muid crógacht agus misneach ó na
lúthchleasaithe speisialta sin agus is fada a bheas cuimhne sa tír seo ar a
laochras agus a bhflaithiúlacht. Cé gur múchadh an Lasair Oilimpeach ag
deireadh na gCluichí is siombal buan dúinne é den mhisneach agus den
chrógacht a chonaic muid thart orainn an samhradh seo a chuaigh thart.

Bua breise dom féin é, mar Tuaisceartach, gur togra uile-Éireannach a bhí
sna Cluichí Speisialta, agus gur chothaigh na cluichí féin agus na daoine a
raibh baint acu leo cairdeas agus comhoibriú ar fud an oileáin seo. Tá súil
agam gur dea-thuar don todhchaí é sin. Tá tionchar Chomhaontú Aoine an
Chéasta le brath ar fud na hÉireann ón am ar ritheadh é sa bhliain 1998.
Céad slán leis an bhroid, leis an tsíor-choimhlint agus leis an seicteachas
a bhí mar oidhreacht againn ó na Trioblóidí. Tá na toghcháin thart anois,
agus tá mé dóchasach nach loicfidh na fir agus na mná atá tofa orthu siúd a
thogh iad, ach go n-oibreoidh siad ar a seacht ndícheall chun sochaí
shíochánta a chothú i dTuaisceart Éireann, sochaí mar is toil le daoine agus
mar a roghnaigh daoine.

Bliain mhór atá romhainn amach. Titfidh ualach agus pribhléid Uachtaránacht
Aontas na hEorpa ar Éirinn Lá Caille 2004. Mar chuid den chúram sin is muid
a bheas freagrach as Lá na bhForbhfáilte, Lá Bealtaine, tráth a nglacfaidh
deich stát úra ballraíocht san Aontas. Stáit iad seo a thaistil bóthar fasta
casta chun an Aontais seo, mar a rinne muid féin. Is eiseamláir muid do na
tíortha seo sa dóigh gur éirigh chomh maith linn le blianta beaga anuas.
Bímis ag súil go mór le bheith ag obair lámh ar láimh le muintir na
mballstát úra seo chun Aontas Eorpach mar is cuí agus mar is cóir a chruthú,
é faoi ráth is faoi raidhse, faoi shíocháin is faoi shéan.

Go raibh suaimhneas agus síocháin inár dtithe, inár sráideanna agus inár
mbailte, inár n-ionaid oibre agus inár n-ionaid só. Níl dabht ar bith ach go
bhfuil deacrachtaí romhainn amach, ach cibé dúshláin iad féin, go raibh
stábla Bheithil mar inspreagadh againn le iad a shárú; agus muid ag dréim
le:

?... that dream, born in a herdsman?s shed,
And for the secret Scripture of the poor.?


Máire Mhic Ghiolla Íosa
Uachtarán na hÉireann




Christmas Greetings from President Mary McAleese
My warmest Christmas and New Year greetings to Irish people, and to
Ireland's friends, everywhere. This special season presents us each year
with a chance to renew friendships, to reconcile differences, to celebrate
kindness and to reflect on the extraordinary capacity we have to touch, and
be touched by, the lives of all we meet.

There was never a better example of our ability to enrich each other than
the 2003 Special Olympic World Games which Ireland was privileged to host.
Those inspiring athletes brought out the very best in us, creating memories
of heroic endeavour and limitless generosity which will live in our hearts
and minds for a long time to come. Though the Special Olympic flame was
extinguished at the end of the Games, all that it symbolises endures and not
just in the field of sport.

Coming as I do from Northern Ireland, I was particularly delighted that the
Special Olympics was an all-island project and that through the Olympian
spirit of friendship we shared such a successful partnership. I hope it is a
sign of happier times to come. Since 1998, the Good Friday Agreement has
slowly but surely transformed the atmosphere in Northern Ireland. The old
miseries of political conflict and sectarianism are losing their grip as
people count their dreadful cost and set their sights on a better future
shared equally by all. The elections to the Northern Ireland Assembly have
now taken place and I have great hope that the newly elected men and women,
entrusted with delivering that future, will work together constructively and
responsibly, mindful of the undeniable progress that has been made in recent
years and the huge desire for peace.

2004 will be an important year for Ireland. We assume the Presidency of the
European Union on 1 January and so it will be our privilege to host the
historic Day of Welcomes when ten new member states join the Union on May
1st. The Union's new members have known times of great difficulty and
hardship but now they are ambitious for their futures. They take great heart
and inspiration from Ireland's remarkable success and we look forward to
working with them to drive forward the vision of a peaceful, prosperous
European homeland created and sustained by its many peoples working together
in respectful and equal partnership.

May our homes, our streets and our communities be places of comfort and of
welcome, of tolerance and goodwill. Our world faces many ups and downs and
there are plenty of things to test our spirit and our values. Whatever
challenges the New Year holds for us may we continue to be uplifted by the
spirit of Christmas and may we continue to work, in hope, for

". . . that dream, born in a herdsman's shed,
And for the secret Scripture of the poor."


Mary McAleese
President of Ireland

From: "MacEinri, Piaras"
To: "'irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk'"
Subject: RE: Ir-D Irish in Britain tv programme

Further to Ultan's interesting posting some days ago about the Irish in
Britain television programme, anyone with access to a reasonably fast
internet link and RealAudio software (which is free) can view this powerful
programme at the following link:

http://www.rte.ie/news/2003/1222/primetime/primetime56_1a.smil

However, there seems to be limited channel capacity and a degree of patience
may be necessary to establish a link.
It is best viewed at a time when internet traffic is relatively light (i.e.
before America wakes up) as people may otherwise experience a good deal of
signal breakup.

The report of the Government Task Force on Emigration, which so far has not
been acted upon, is still available from the Department of Foreign Affairs
at

http:/www.gov.ie/iveagh/policy/emigrant_taskforce.htm

Piaras

From: "Guillermo MacLoughlin"
To:
Cc: "Patrick O'Sullivan"
Subject: Merry Xmas

On behalf of the Irish-Argentine community we send you our best wishes for
the Seasons.

Guillermo MacLoughlin
Buenos Aires, Argentina

gmacloughlin[at]ciudad.com.ar

From Email Patrick O'Sullivan

Thanks to Guillermo and to all who have sent in greetings. Let us wish for
a peaceful Christmas, and a happy New Year.

I should report that we have had a computer problem here over the past week.
The problem was in our back-up computer, but - since there is no point in
having a back-up computer that doesn't work properly - we had to use the
everyday computer to locate the fault in the back-up. If you follow me...
I'll be looking through the logs, to see if we missed anything important.

There are also a number of regular Ir-D items and announcements that I need
to catch up on. So, I'll be pottering on over the holiday season. After
all, to go to work I simply need to climb the stairs to the attic...

From the attic... Enjoy the holiday. And here in the dark Northern
Hemisphere we begin to look for brighter mornings.

Paddy


- --
Patrick O'Sullivan
Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit

Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Personal Fax 0044 (0) 709 236 9050

Irish-Diaspora list
Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/
Irish Diaspora Net Archive http://www.irishdiaspora.net

Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Department of Social Sciences and Humanities
University of Bradford
Bradford BD7 1DP
Yorkshire
England

From: "Thomas J. Archdeacon"
To:
Subject: RE: Ir-D Article, Gavin, A sense of Irishness

The Bea Gavin articles looks potentially interesting, but the abstract is a
lesson in how not to communicate with an audience beyond one's discipline.

Tom

Thomas J. Archdeacon Phone: 608-263-1778
Professor of History Fax: 608-263-5302
U. of Wisconsin -- Madison
4135 Humanities
455 North Park St.
Madison, WI 53706


- -----Original Message-----
From Email Patrick O'Sullivan

This item has fallen into our nets, and seems worth sharing.

I have not yet been able to see the full text of this article.

P.O'S.


Psychodynamic Counselling
Publisher: Brunner-Routledge, part of the Taylor & Francis Group
Issue: Volume 7, Number 1 / February 1, 2001
Pages: 83 - 102
URL: Linking Options

A sense of Irishness

Bea Gavin

Abstract:

This paper explores how issues of Irish identity and difference expressed
themselves in a range of group analytic settings. This Irish dimension has
been largely absent in therapy literature. Work on the impact of cultural
difference and racism, while very relevant, has not addressed itself to the
specific dynamics of the Irish experience in Britain and how this manifests
itself in therapy settings. Irishness was understood in a number of
different ways in the groups described. For the Irish members, their
cultural identity was used both to generate a genuine exploration of
difference and the interweaving of personal and cultural events, and, in
other circumstances, it was used to create division and to deny early
painful family experiences. For the non-Irish members, the Irish experience
was simultaneously acknowledged and denied. Acts of apparent inclusion led
instead to an experience of exclusion. These experiences reflect the reality
of social, political and historical power relations between cultures and how
these manifest themselves in groups. A countertransference reaction on the
part of the group therapist when identified as Irish, and the impact of this
on the group, is also considered.

Keywords:

DIFFERENCE, EXCLUSION, CULTURE, IMMIGRATION