From: "MacEinri, Piaras"
To: "'irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk'"
Subject: The Celtic Cross and the Crescent
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 14:00:53 -0000

List members may be interested in the article below from the current issue
of Catholic journal The Tablet (thanks to Brian Lambkin for finding it).
There was a similar article some months back in the New Statesman which also
featured on the list (november 2003).

I find it difficult to see the difference between what O'Sullivan is
advocating and outright assimilation and I don't see that ethnicity is
either likely to, or should, disappear ("Muslims will lose their cultural
baggage. Indian and Pakistani ways will disappear"). The Catholic Church may
well have done its best to anglicize the Irish in Britain - in fact it tried
to do this, with notable exceptions, in Ireland as well in the 19th century.
It seems to me that the present debate about ethnicity, diversity,
co-existence and core values is a far more complex one. There obviously is a
need for a more structured ongoing dialogue between British Muslims and the
rest of British society but I don't think it follows that the way forward is
through the insertion of Islam into the 'Establishment'.

Piaras Mac Einri


The Celtic cross and the crescent
Jack O'Sullivan


Ireland's Catholics were assimilated into Britain with ease, thanks to
respect for their beliefs, strong leadership and school provision. There is
a lesson to be learned here if Muslims are to be similarly welcomed

ST PATRICK'S Day, when I was growing up in the Seventies, was a moment when
Irishness and Catholicism were fused. It was such an important day that
giving up sweets for Lent was temporarily suspended. My grandmother from
Dublin sent shamrocks which we wore pinned to our school uniforms as we
attended the special St Patrick's Day Mass. It was an act of stubbornness, a
determination to show that, though we were "second generation", our
Irishness remained vigorous, even if, as everyone told me, a shamrock could
not grow in English soil.

We would hear from our parish priest as he drew together our experiences of
Irishness and Catholicism. Known simply as the "Canon", his title seemed to
speak as much of his explosive qualities as his clerical rank. A towering,
resolute, highly educated man from Cork, he was a Hebrew scholar who could
animate the life of Jesus and the frailties of his apostles. We all loved
him.

He was also a fierce nationalist. Every Sunday, we prayed for justice in the
"Six Northern Counties of Ireland". He could never bring himself to refer to
what to him was an imperial nonsense - Northern Ireland. I am left with the
indelible impression that the 12 apostles were a lot like the men who took
part in 1916's Easter Rising - weak, but well-intentioned. The Canon used to
refer disdainfully to this "godless country" in which he had found himself.
To me, he was the latter-day equivalent of the "Big Fellow", his fellow Cork
man, Michael Collins, but in a dog collar.

I recall this story, because the position in which Islam finds itself in
Britain today bears many similarities to the Irish in Britain as they
arrived in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. Like Muslims, Irish
Catholics, in particular, were very loyal to their religion. Indeed, you
could say that Irishness went into hiding in the Catholic Church when it
landed at Liverpool or Holyhead. Like Muslims, we brought many of our clergy
with us, some of them, like the Canon, deeply attached to the politics of
the homeland, often uncomfortable in a country of different, more liberal
values. In our church, with its green statue of St Patrick, the snakes lying
dead underfoot, it felt like a safe place to be Irish.

Yet Catholicism was also the route by which we were assimilated, and became
British. For that success, many home secretaries must have felt extremely
grateful. Today, there are an estimated 8 million people of Irish descent in
England, Scotland and Wales. Many of them lived through the last 30 years of
the "Troubles". Yet this second-generation Irish immigrant community
produced virtually no IRA recruits.

How did this happen? How was a community so successfully detached from
potentially violent political ferment? The children of the Irish who took
the boat to England were absorbed as British Catholics, thanks largely to
being educated in state-sponsored Catholic schools. In an authoritative
study of the Irish in Britain, Religion, Class and Identity, Mary Hickman
describes how this second generation learned to define themselves as
Catholic rather than as Irish. Their public rituals - confession, catechism
on Saturday, Mass on Sundays, a miniature wedding dress at seven for the
girls' First Communion - distinguished them denominationally but not
ethnically. Meanwhile, the leadership of the state-supported Catholic Church
carefully stuck to its side of the unspoken bargain, condemning political
violence.

State finance for Catholic education began in the 1870s when British
politicians were at ease with religion and, as empire builders, keen to
suppress national and ethnic identities. Sadly, the same treatment has not
however been offered to the wave of immigrants, many of them Muslims, that
followed the Irish in the second half of the last century.

By then, governments busy dismantling an empire were happy to acknowledge
the ethnicity of immigrants, absorbing them as black or Asian Britons.
However, in more secular times, they had little time for religion. Islamic
beliefs were largely ignored. This antipathy towards religious identity was
particularly true of Labour, the party most likely to think imaginatively
about ways to welcome and assimilate new arrivals. So, as state-funded
centres for ethnic groups sprang up throughout the land, mosques struggled
in ramshackle converted terraces in Bradford while Muslim schools were
frowned upon and denied state funding. Most important, low pay available to
imams from these impoverished communities and a lack of theological training
in Britain meant UK Islamic communities depended on inadequately educated
imams largely imported from the Indian sub-continent. These men had little
knowledge of English or Britain and so reinforced the isolation of their
communities in the culturally specific, often rural, versions of Islam that
they brought with them.

So whereas, with the Irish, the state promoted and supported financially
their religion as a means of settling the immigrants into Britain, the
modern state has neglected Islam. It has left a community impoverished of
well-qualified leadership and prey to hijack by Middle East conflicts and
self-appointed rabble-rousing leaders. This long-running policy failure at
Westminster to recognise the enduring importance of Islam to many Britons
represents an extraordinary lapse.

The position is not helped by the lack of hierarchy within Islam. And the
people at the top know it. Take Zaki Badawi, for example. In another age, he
would probably have held the title "Grand Mufti of Islam in Britain". Then
everyone would know that, on matters of faith, his word ranks alongside that
of the Archbishop of Canterbury, the Chief Rabbi and the Archbishop of
Westminster. But with the collapse of the Ottoman empire, that post died in
the nineteenth century. So despite his religious expertise, unrivalled in
Britain, Dr Badawi, who is chair of the UK Council of Imams and Mosques and
founder of the Muslim College, must compete with a mêlée of Muslim
politicians and local imams plus any hotheads an eager media happen to
chance upon. Imagine Cardinal Murphy-O'Connor battling for attention with
Gerry Adams, the odd turbulent parish priest and the comedian Dave Allen on
matters of Catholic doctrine and you get the picture.

Where does Dr Badawi look to for inspiration? To Catholicism. "Within a
couple of generations," he says, "Muslims will lose their cultural baggage.
Indian and Pakistani ways will disappear. They will adopt Western cultural
values and the whole community will be brought together as British Muslims."


It sounds very familiar. His hero is Cardinal Hume, who seemed to complete
the process of Irish assimilation into British society, perhaps best
symbolised by his successor, Cardinal Murphy-O'Connor, preaching to the
Queen. Of Cardinal Hume, Dr Badawi declares: "It was so clever, the way he
inserted Catholicism into the Establishment without compromise."

He has a plan for Islam in Britain. He does not want a title such as Grand
Mufti. He wants to establish a council of British Muslim scholars, whose
authority will exceed rival voices and prevent Islam being hijacked. He also
wants to raise salaries for imams, so that cheaper imams imported from the
sub-continent will cease to predominate.

"I want the Government to help me in training better imams," he says,
mindful that ministers loathe giving money for religion. But my argument is
that it is cheaper than having to combat the effect of bad imams. If you
have good Islamic leadership, it would save the Government an enormous
amount of money."

Dr Badawi is right and Catholics should support him. His ideas are
counter-intuitive at a time when the French are banning Islamic scarves in
schools. Yet, given the Irish Catholic precedent, it is an obvious step to
take, alongside better support for Islamic schools.

Islam is highly culturally adaptable, which explains why it has become
established in such different societies. But to establish itself in an
adapted British form, it needs proper support so that it can develop an
indigenous intelligentsia. Failure will mean that young British Muslims will
take their lead on what it means to be a modern Muslim from the powerful TV
images they see in the Middle East, where political struggle and faith have
become so interwoven and confused.

It is time, this St Patrick's Day, to remember how very different the Irish
experience in Britain might have been, had Catholicism not been successfully
absorbed and some of the potency of Irish nationalism defused. It is not too
late to recognise the vision that men like Dr Badawi offer of following in
the footsteps of Catholic leaders like Cardinal Hume.

Jack O'Sullivan writes regularly for the Muslim monthly, Q-News.






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From: patrick maume
Sender: P.Maume[at]Queens-Belfast.AC.UK
To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Ir-D Reference clarification

From: Patrick Maume
It's 82.


On Mon, 15 Mar 2004 18:04:24 GMT irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk
wrote:

>
> From: Kerby Miller
> Subject: Re: Ir-D Article, First World War Recruitment
>
> Thanks--but could you clarify that volume number. It looks like an
> eighty, plus an eleven, then a two? Or is it vol. 82, series 2 (then
> No. 214)?
>
>
> >
> >Sender: P.Maume[at]Queens-Belfast.AC.UK
> >To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
> >Subject: Article, First World War Recruitment
> >
> >From: Patrick Maume
> > This reference may be of interest to the list:
> >Elaine MacFarland "'How the Irish Paid Their Debt': Irish Catholics in
> >Scotland and Voluntary Enlistment August 1914-July 1915" SCOTTISH HISTORICAL
> >REVIEW Volume LXXX11,2 No.214 (October 2003) pp261-284.
> >
> >----------------------
> >patrick maume
>


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From: "William Mulligan Jr."
To:
Subject: RE: St Patrick's Day parade
Date: Tue, 16 Mar 2004 18:48:41 -0600


The NYC St. Patrick's Day parade has become something quite
different from the parade I remember as a young Irish-American growing
up in New York and over the years. The increasing social conservatism of
the "leadership" the New York Irish-American community is a cause of
deep concern for me and for many others, but I am not sure it is
reflective of the views of those in the New York area who identify
themselves as Irish Americans. The church hierarchy has certainly
supported the exclusion of gays and others who do not conform to their
accepted views, but most people, I think are more inclusive.

Bill Mulligan







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From Email Patrick O'Sullivan

Forwarded on behalf of...

Nicholas J. Evans
Email: n.evans[at]abdn.ac.uk
AHRB Centre for Irish and Scottish Studies


- -----Original Message-----
Subject: cfp: Jewish Settlement and Development in Scotland

Call for papers

Symposium on Jewish Settlement and Development in Scotland, 1879-2004 at the
Garnethill Synagogue, Glasgow, UK

The AHRB Centre for Irish and Scottish Studies in collaboration with the
Scottish Jewish Archives Centre are hosting an academic symposium at the
Scottish Jewish Archives Centre to celebrate the 125th anniversary of the
opening of Garnethill - Scotland's oldest synagogue. The event will be held
on Sunday 17 October 2004. Proposals of 200 words from those researching the
themes of the emergence and/or development of Scotland's Jewish community
during the period 1879-2004 should be sent together with brief biographical
details by Monday 2 May 2004 to the email address below.

N.B. Prospective speakers should note that no travel costs can be reimbursed
and speakers would therefore need to approach their university or other
institution to cover all travel expenses.

Nicholas J. Evans
Research Fellow
AHRB Centre for Irish and Scottish Studies University of Aberdeen
Email: n.evans[at]abdn.ac.uk
http://www.abdn.ac.uk/ahrbciss/diaspora.shtml

From Email Patrick O'Sullivan

St. Patrick's Day greetings to all members of the Irish-Diaspora list, their
families, friends and colleagues.

And my thanks to all those who have sent greetings.

I much enjoyed my sojourn in San Francisco, and hope that I was useful to
the Irish-American Festival, San Francisco, March 2004...
http://www.iaf.org/splash.html

I was very impressed by the work of Danny Cassidy, Margaret McPeake and
their students - at New College, San Francisco, a brave community college...
http://www.newcollege.edu/irishstudies/events_irishstudies.html

http://www.newcollege.edu/

It was good to see old friends - I shared a platform with Janet Nolan - and
good to make new friends. But I do have to report that the journey there
and back was quite, quite horrible. Talk about prejudices confirmed... It
has taken me a while to recover...

Our thanks to Russell Murray for looking after things in my absence.

Paddy

- --
Patrick O'Sullivan
Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit

Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Personal Fax 0044 (0) 709 236 9050

Irish-Diaspora list
Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/
Irish Diaspora Net Archive http://www.irishdiaspora.net

Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Department of Social Sciences and Humanities
University of Bradford
Bradford BD7 1DP
Yorkshire
England

From Russell Murray (r.c.murray[at]Bradford.ac.uk)

For Information...

RM


- -----Original Message-----
Subject: Manning on Brady, _Sir Henry Sidney's Memoir of Service in Ireland_

H-NET BOOK REVIEW
Published by H-Albion[at]h-net.msu.edu (March 2004)

Ciaran Brady, ed. _A Viceroy's Vindication? Sir Henry Sidney's Memoir of
Service in Ireland, 1556-1578_. Irish Narratives Series. Cork: Cork
University Press, 2002. vi + 136 pp. Map, notes, index. $15.00 (paper), ISBN
1-85918-180-5.

Reviewed for H-Albion by Roger B. Manning ,
Department of History, Cleveland State University

The Trials and Tribulations of a Lord Deputy of Ireland

As president of the Council in the Marches and Principality of Wales from
1559 and three times lord deputy of Ireland before his death in 1586, Sir
Henry Sidney was at the forefront of the expansion of English dominion in
the British Isles. He also played a somewhat less successful role as a
diplomat in attempting to pacify the conflict between the houses of Guise
and Condé during the religious wars in France and in the effort to discredit
the claims of Mary, Queen of Scots to the English throne.

Sidney's narrative essay of his service as lord deputy of Ireland was not
the first attempt by a royal servant to address a petition to Queen
Elizabeth asking to be rewarded for his services, but it was the longest (at
30,000 words) and the most elaborately contrived literary effort to justify
his policies and actions, and thus has a claim to be called the first
English political memoir. The editor might argue that this was also the
first modern military memoir written by an inhabitant of the British Isles.
A considerable part of the _Memoir_ is devoted to Sidney's military exploits
and campaigns in Ireland, and it seems to have been modeled upon, in its
subsequent revisions, Julius Caesar's _Gallic Wars_, the autobiographical
parts of Francesco Guicciardini's _History of Italy_ and perhaps also Blaise
de Monluc's _Commentaries_, which might have been available to Sidney in
manuscript form. Sidney's father, Sir William, had also been a soldier, and
like Sir Francis Walsingham and Sidney's brother-in-law, Robert Dudley, earl
of Leicester, Sidney and his son, Sir Philip, were associated with the war
party in Elizabethan England and often found themselves at odds with the
carpet knights of the courtier faction. Sir Henry had also commissioned an
English translation of Caradog of Llancarvan's _The Historie of Cambria_
(1584) to provide his son Philip with examples of how ancient Welsh princes
discovered the path to honor and valor through their "politic and martial
acts."[1]

Sidney had been quite successful in his long career as president of the
Council of Wales, but his tenure as lord deputy of Ireland (he held the two
offices concurrently) was distinctly less successful, although he discharged
his duties competently and conscientiously. His _Memoir_ is devoted
entirely to his Irish experiences where the problems of pacification and
assimilation proved more intractable than in Wales. In each of his three
"deputations" or terms as lord deputy Sidney had to subdue a major
rebellion. Yet, unlike so many other English officials and planters in
late-sixteenth-century Ireland, he did not attempt to explain the absence of
a civil society in Ireland in terms of cultural inferiority, and he did not
resort to comparing the Irish to the Scythians. He saw the problem of
imposing order and obedience in Ireland in purely political terms of
negotiating with individual lords and chieftains to persuade them to accept
English law and customs and to live in peace. In order to accomplish this
task he led a peripatetic existence constantly progressing through the Irish
countryside meeting with individual lords. Some he saw as thoroughly
obstreperous, but many he viewed as rational men with whom he could come to
an understanding. This required him to have a detailed knowledge of the
political problems specific to each of the many lordships, and few men,
English or Irish, could have had as detailed an on-the-ground knowledge of
Irish topography as Sidney--campaigning as he did even in the midst of
winter. Sidney also made a brave effort to learn the Irish language,
although he never mastered it. Sidney set out on his travels with
expectation that negotiation was normal and conflict was abnormal. This
meant, of course, dismantling the system of coyne and livery by which Irish
lords and chieftains extorted considerable sums of money from their tenants
in order to maintain their warriors and engage in cattle raids and other
forms on endemic private warfare with their rivals. Instead, Sidney
compelled them to pay rents to the crown. These crown rents were actually
collected and helped to maintain English garrisons to impose military rule
and to enforce agreements with individual lords and chieftains. This was
the first step towards imposing civility. This did not necessarily make the
Gaelic Irish subjects of the crown, entitled to the full protection of the
crown that the English and the Welsh enjoyed (that would come only under
King James VI and I), but Sidney took pride in restoring castles and
properties that had been forcibly seized to their rightful owners. These
persons were then expected to swear fealty, become crown tenants, and render
military service when called upon to do so. Under Elizabeth, the Gaelic or
Old Irish did not yet enjoy a full system of common-law courts that reached
into the provinces. Sidney did, however, begin the process of shiring the
Irish lordships, which pointed in that direction, as had been done in Wales,
although he could not remember in what county he had placed the Glinns (or
Glens). Justice, such as it was, was often dispensed by the provost
marshal; and rebels, such as Rory Oge O'More, who persisted in their defiant
behavior, could expect to be hunted down by hard-bitten soldiers such as Sir
Humphrey Gilbert or Sir Nicholas Malby and massacred along with their
followers. However, Sidney claimed to have pacified Clandeboy and the Ards
so completely that the garrisons there had nothing better to do than to hunt
deer.

It is interesting to note that Sidney thought that he had his hands full
trying to suppress the rebellions of Old English lords and Old Irish
chieftains, and did not believe that it was his job to enforce the
Protestant settlement upon the Irish church. He was willing to work with
Catholics who were loyal to the queen, such as Sir Lucas Dillon, for whom he
had the highest regard. As late as 1576 he was willing to receive the
"Papist" bishops of Cashel and Tuam who came to declare their loyalty to the
queen and to him as lord deputy (p. 86). It was not the reconciliation that
the bishops hoped for, because Sidney was not prepared to accept their
insistence that while the temporalities came from the queen, the
spiritualities could come only from the pope. But Sidney felt obliged to
treat them with respect.

Sir Henry Sidney's analysis of sixteenth-century Ireland, in purely
political terms rather than cultural inferiority, demonstrates, Dr. Brady
suggests, that he was influenced by Machiavellian thought. He almost
certainly read Guicciardini's _History of Italy_, and probably acquired his
knowledge of Machiavellian political analysis from his son Philip who had
spent time at the court of the king of France where Machiavelli's writings
circulated in manuscript.

Ciaran Brady's new edition of Sidney's _Memoir_ is a most valuable addition
to the Irish Narratives Series published the Cork University Press, and is
accompanied by a substantial introduction that does an excellent job of
providing the reader with the necessary historical context. The
introduction also provides a useful map to help the reader locate all of the
numerous lordships which preceded the division of Ireland into counties.
Unfortunately, the map is not well reproduced, and a number of the names of
the lordships and the dominant families are indecipherable. The _Memoir_
appears to be available only in a paperback edition which makes the book
affordable, but is an editorial decision that will not please many
librarians.

Note

[1]. Roger B. Manning, _Swordsmen: The Martial Ethos in the Three Kingdoms_
(Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2003), p. 74.


Copyright (c) 2004 by H-Net, all rights reserved. H-Net permits
the redistribution and reprinting of this work for nonprofit,
educational purposes, with full and accurate attribution to the
author, web location, date of publication, originating list, and
H-Net: Humanities & Social Sciences Online. For other uses
contact the Reviews editorial staff: hbooks[at]mail.h-net.msu.edu.

From Email Patrick O'Sullivan

Forwarded on behalf of...

Eudeba, Buenos Aires University Press
institucionales[at]eudeba.com.ar
Subject: Invitación presentación Devenir Irlandes


May your blessings outnumber the shamrocks that grow,
and may trouble avoid you wherever you go!

Happy Saint Patrick's Day

________________________________

Eudeba, Buenos Aires University Press, is pleased to present

Devenir irlandés
Narrativas íntimas de la emigración irlandesa a la Argentina 1844-1912.
de Edmundo Murray

Edmundo Murray
Presentación del libro Devenir irlandés: 5 de mayo ,18:30. 30°Feria
Internacional del Libro de Buenos Aires. Rincón de la Lectura. Predio de la
Sociedad Rural Argentina.Ciudad de Buenos Aires
Conferencia "Relaciones bilaterales tempranas entre Argentina e Irlanda" -
7 de mayo,18.00. Instituto de Relaciones Internacionales Universidad
Nacional de La Plata Calle 48 Nro 582, piso 1 .La Plata. Pcia.de Bs As.

"Not a hero, not a saint nor a martyr is to be found in this book. There is
no intention here to honour the memory of neglected celebrities, those who
contributed to the development of their countries and communities. This book
is not an hagiography nor a Legenda Aurea intended to evoke martyrs bearing
superior ideals. The characters in these accounts are actual persons, who
were born and died in a time when inner adventures were supported by mass
migrations from Europe to America. They are only humans, with anxiety,
selfishness, creativity and often, with inspiration and everlasting
patience. They believe in certain principles and hold to their values, and
they behave more or less according to them, though when it is needed they
change them to adapt to a new environment"

"Este libro no trata de héroes, santos o mártires. No intenta rescatar del
olvido a personas anónimas que han contribuido al desarrollo de sus países o
de las comunidades que las recibieron. No es una hagiografía o Legenda Aurea
que canta las aventuras de ignotos mártires de causas superiores. Los
protagonistas de estas historias son seres humanos, reales, que nacieron y
murieron en una época en que la aventura interior era favorecida por el
fenómeno social de las migraciones masivas de Europa hacia América. Son
personas de carne y hueso , con miedos, egoísmos, creatividad y, a veces,
ideas brillantes o paciencia infinita. Son individuos que creen en
determinados principios, que tienen ciertos valores, y se comportan más o
menos de acuerdo a ellos, pero modificándolos cuando es necesario adaptarse
a las nuevas circunstancias."

________________________________

Un completo aparato de notas y referencias permiten al lector contextualizar
y recorrer una serie de cartas personales, para encontrar en sus relatos las
diversas circunstancias cotidianas de la llegada, el arraigo y la
supervivencia de los inmigrantes irlandeses en nuestro país. Los
intercambios epistolares como modo de acercamiento a ese mundo, introducen
al lector en un espacio íntimo de percepción y sensibilidad de sus
protagonistas revelando los modos en que el tránsito geográfico fue,
también, un trayecto interno de construcción identitaria.

Edmundo Murray (Buenos Aires, 1955), escritor, historiador y lingüista, vive
en Ginebra desde 1998, donde trabaja como investigador y editor en
organizaciones internacionales. Ha estudiado en Argentina, los EE.UU. y
Suiza. Como estudiante de inglés, español y lingüística, su tesis "How the
Irish became 'Gauchos Ingleses'" ha sido reconocida recientemente en el
mundo académico. Desde 2001 es el editor del website "Irish Migration
Studies in South America". Ha publicado artículos sobre una variedad de
temas, entre los que destacan la historia y la literatura de habla inglesa
en América del Sur. Es miembro fundador de la Irish Argentine Historical
Society. También ha publicado "Poemas nómades" (1999) y "Taxonomía
fantástica de los Árboles de Buenos Aires" (2000), ambos con Sophora
éditions.

From Russell Murray (r.c.murray[at]Bradford.ac.uk)

Forwarded on behalf of Áras an Uachtaráin...

RM


ST. PATRICK'S DAY GREETINGS FROM PRESIDENT McALEESE

Beannachtaí na Féile Pádraig ar chlann mhór domhanda na nGael, sa bhaile
agus ar fud na cruinne, ar an lá náisiúnta ceiliúrtha seo.

A Happy St. Patrick's Day to Ireland's sons and daughters, and indeed to our
adopted brothers and sisters, throughout the world. This St. Patrick's Day
is a particularly special time for Ireland. Today our national day is
celebrated during Ireland's Presidency of the European Union, when the
European family of nations is about to adopt many new members. These are
times of great hope for the nations of Europe and this great project will
surely be a beacon to the other nations of the world. We welcome those new
members and look forward to a future of friendship and fellowship with them
and their peoples. St Patrick himself was, of course, a great European whose
vision was not bounded by narrow horizons.

Around the world, on this day, we come together to celebrate the music and
song, the wit and humour, the friendship and fellowship that is our heritage
and our pride. Many friends will join in the festivities here in Ireland and
abroad, and will carry with them the richness of fluent and open friendship
that signifies our Irishness. Our greatest gift as a people is our openness
to new experiences and genuine curiosity about other cultures, while we
continue to inspire other nations with our legacy of resilience,
versatility, and enthusiasm for whatever the future holds. That great
capacity to adapt underlies much of our economic and cultural successes over
the past decade. These shared gifts have sustained and encouraged us through
every challenge we have faced throughout history.

I am delighted to join with all members of the Irish family and our many
friends throughout the world in honouring St. Patrick on this special day.

Go mbainimís ar fad sult agus aoibhneas as an lá speisialta seo.

MARY McALEESE

PRESIDENT OF IRELAND

http://www.irlgov.ie/aras/speeches/St_Patricks_Day_Message_2004.html

http://www.irlgov.ie/aras/speeches/La_le_Padraig_2004.html

From Email Patrick O'Sullivan

I have noted before that the Irish and Ireland often seem to be oddly absent
from 'Atlantic History' approaches...

But... See the forthcoming NYU Atlantic history workshops

http://www.nyu.edu/pages/atlantic/

And note especially...

Tuesday, April 13, 12:30
Jenny Shaw, NYU
"The Irish in the Atlantic World"
King Juan Carlos Center, Room 527

P.O'S.


- --
Patrick O'Sullivan
Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit

Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Personal Fax 0044 (0) 709 236 9050

Irish-Diaspora list
Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/
Irish Diaspora Net Archive http://www.irishdiaspora.net

Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Department of Social Sciences and Humanities
University of Bradford
Bradford BD7 1DP
Yorkshire
England

From Email Patrick O'Sullivan

Browsing the University of California eScholarship Repository...

I came across an interesting item...

In my article in New Hibernia Review last year...
O'Sullivan, Patrick.
Developing Irish Diaspora Studies: A Personal View
New Hibernia Review Volume 7, Number 1, Spring 2003

...I note the difficulties of getting any comparative perspective on the
position of the Irish in Britain - and I mentioned, briefly, the Koreans in
Japan, citing Michael Weiner.

Well, here we have a study of the Koreans in Japan which mentions, very
briefly, the Irish in Britain.

Kazuko Suzuki (2003) The State and Racialization: the Case of Koreans in
Japan,

SUGGESTED CITATION:
Kazuko Suzuki, "The State and Racialization: the Case of Koreans in Japan"
(March 13, 2003). Center for Comparative Immigration Studies. Working
Papers. Paper wrkg69.
http://repositories.cdlib.org/ccis/papers/wrkg69

Kazuko Suzuki connects her Japanese and Korean work and sources, including
Michael Weiner, with the standard European/US references, Gellner, Said,
Hobsbawm... She speaks about white on white and Oriental on Oriental (her
terms) 'racialization'. Her article might be of interest to those who have
looked at the conceptualisation of the Irish in Britain.

I have emailed Kazuko Suzuki, just noting that we have arrived independently
at this perception.

The University of California eScholarship Repository is a useful resource,
good quality stuff, freely available. (There is some research which
suggests that scholarly material made freely available on the web gets cited
more often - surprise...)

Other items of interest there would include...

SUGGESTED CITATION:
Seamus Heaney and Robert Hass, "Sounding Lines: The Art of Translating
Poetry" (February 9, 1999). Doreen B. Townsend Center for the Humanities.
Occasional Papers. Paper 20.
http://repositories.cdlib.org/townsend/occpapers/20

SUGGESTED CITATION:
Gerald Early, Eric Solomon, and Loic Wacquant, "The Charisma of Sport and
Race" (March 1, 1996). Doreen B. Townsend Center for the Humanities.
Occasional Papers. Paper 8.
http://repositories.cdlib.org/townsend/occpapers/8

ABSTRACT:
This Occasional Paper explores the importance of both charisma and
performance in the analysis of sport(s). Professor Loic Waquant argues that
the "universe of sport is not the world of charisma but the world of
persona;" athletes are performers who wear masks. For Gerald Early, sport
offers grounds on which to examine race, masculinity, and even more broadly,
the "symbols and metaphors of our society;" it is about merit, justice,
desire and will. Eric Solomon argues that the lore and "deep mythology" of
baseball has played an important part in the lives of Jewish immigrants,
inspiring not only players but writers and artists as well, for many of the
above theorized reasons. What emerges in all these papers is that the study
of sport is important and must be taken seriously.

But go and browse.

Patrick O'Sullivan


- --
Patrick O'Sullivan
Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit

Email Patrick O'Sullivan Email Patrick
O'Sullivan Personal Fax 0044 (0) 709 236 9050

Irish-Diaspora list Irish Diaspora Studies
http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/
Irish Diaspora Net Archive http://www.irishdiaspora.net

Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Department of Social Sciences and Humanities University of Bradford Bradford
BD7 1DP Yorkshire England

From: patrick maume
Sender: P.Maume[at]Queens-Belfast.AC.UK
Subject: Re: Ir-D Irish & Islam

From: patrick Maume
And, like the NEW STATESMAN article, the author doesn't pick up
on the irony on his use of Hickman. Surely Hickman's point is
that Church-encouraged assimilation was a BAD thing and that it
would have been preferable for the Irish in Britain to have
remained conscious of themselves as distinctively Irish rather
than trying to assimilate to British identity. This is
certainly disputable, buit O'Sullivan doesn't seem to register
her view at all.
Best wishes,
PAtrick


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From: "T.Murray"
To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: RE: Ir-D Koreans and Irish

Paddy,

A scholar by the name of Kiyoshi Matsui consulted our Archive of the Irish
in Britain just over eight years ago as part of his comparative research on
migration from Korea to Japan and Ireland to Britain. He was based at the
Center for International Co-operation in Education at Meiji Gakum University
(address 1518 Kamikurata-cho, Totsuka-ku, Yokohama-shi 244, Japan) but did
not get back to me afterwards. My websearches have not turned anything up
on him but I have the telephone number he left me at the time if you want
it.

Tony Murray
Irish Studies Centre
London Metropolitan University

From Email Patrick O'Sullivan

Forwarded on behalf of
Marian Lyons
Marian.Lyons[at]spd.dcu.ie

Please distribute.

P.O'S.

Subject: Irish in Europe Conference Kilkenny, Ireland, 14 & 15 May 2004

On Friday 14 and Saturday 15 May 2004, the third international Irish in
Europe conference takes place at St Kieran's College, Kilkenny. The
programme features twenty-four lectures given by academics from Ireland,
France, Spain, Portugal, Sweden, Belgium, Scotland and England. Papers
explore the military, commerical and intellectual activity of Irish migrants
in Europe during the seventeenth and eighteenth centuries.

Full details of the programme, accommodation, transport, and the Irish in
Europe Project are available at www.irishineurope.com/

I would be grateful if you would circulate this notice of the conference.

Yours sincerely,

Marian Lyons
Lecturer in History,
St Patrick's College,
Drumcondra,
Dublin 9,
Republic of Ireland

From: "Anthony Mcnicholas"
Subject: Re: Ir-D Re: Irish & Islam

I would echo what Piaras and Patrick have said. I think it a
curious aspect of jack sullivan's piece that he seems to be arguing that
what made the Irish acceptable, civilised, safe, was to have their Irishness
extracted. Being Irish is just one way of being human, like being English.
I also think he is also over optimistic about how well regarded Catholicism
was in
Victorian Britain, it might have less contentious than being Irish but
that's not saying much.
Has he ever heard of the Papal Agression furore? Part of the
impetus for funding Catholic schools was to ensure that good Anglicans were
not
contaminated by rubbing shoulders with Irish Papists. When Wiseman died it
was
said that his greatest achievement was to bring Catholicism in Britain out
of
the shadows and make it acceptable in society-precisely the same as what was
said about Basil Hume over one hundred years later. If Wiseman had already
done it,
how could Hume? And if it was Hume's achievement what about the status of
Catholics in the interim?
I also would have problems with his assumption, for such I think he has,
that a
religious identification is inherently 'safer' than one based on nationality
or
something else. The Fenian clashes with English supporters of Garibaldi in
Hyde
Park are an example of how an identification with the Pope on the part of
the
working class Irish in Britain, separated them from their English working
class
counterparts to whom Garibaldi was a hero..

To relate this back to Islam, I don't think it is necessarily helpful for
Moslems, who of course come from all levels of all kinds of countries to see
a
slight or an injury to a person in one part of the world as being as an
offence
against them, simply because they are both Moslems. That just leads us all
to this clash
of civilisations nonsense.
anthony



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From: "Thomas J. Archdeacon"
Subject: RE: Ir-D Koreans and Irish 2

Did the University of North London become London Metropolitan University?
When?

Thanks.

Tom




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From: "cornelius mcnicholas"
X-MailScanner-SpamScore: s

it most certainly did. merged with guildhall. 2003 maybe 2002. both skint as
we all are,
anythony

- ----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 6:21 AM
Subject: Ir-D Irish & Koreans 3


>
> From: "Thomas J. Archdeacon"
> Subject: RE: Ir-D Koreans and Irish 2
>
> Did the University of North London become London Metropolitan University?
> When?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Tom


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From: "MacEinri, Piaras"
To: "'irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk '"
Subject: Butte Montana
Date: Sat, 20 Mar 2004 22:19:39 -0000

Irish language station TG4, which has broadcast some of the most innovative
programmes anywhere on the Irish Diaspora, tonight showed a one-hour
documentary on Butte, Montana (subtitled in English). Centred on the history
of three Ferriter brothers from the Irish-speaking Gaeltacht of Corca
Dhuibhne in west Kerry, the film is a portrait (by well-known documentary
maker Breandan Feirtéar) of Butte's glory days as a major mining town, a
third of whose population was Irish. The documentary covers the development
of the mines and the social and cultural history of the town, including the
politics of trade unionism and the accusations of sedition made against the
Butte Irish after the US entered WWI. Historian David Emmons is a major
contributor but several others are also featured. The connection with
Allihies in West Cork (one of the few mining regions in Ireland) emerges
clearly and a number of present-day descendants of the original Butte Irish,
such as Kevin Shannon, are interviewed.

The Irish contribution is placed within a broader context of immigrant
workers and a number of mine workers of various backgrounds (the mine only
finally closed in the 1970s) are interviewed.

The documentary is now without fault (women are almost invisible) but is
nonetheless compelling viewing, beautifully made and highly recommended, at
least by this viewer.

Piaras Mac Einri
Cork







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From Email Patrick O'Sullivan

Tony,

Very interesting - thank you for this...

This suggests that the Korean/Irish comparison might have, by now, become
something of a standard point in studies of the Koreans in Japan. Which
might explain why Kazuko Suzuki just mentions it in passing, as if it is
obvious.

There is a CENTER FOR INTERNATIONAL COOPERATION IN EDUCATION, at MEIJI
GAKUIN UNIVERSITY. We will see what can be discovered.

Paddy


- -----Original Message-----
From: "T.Murray"
To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: RE: Ir-D Koreans and Irish

Paddy,

A scholar by the name of Kiyoshi Matsui consulted our Archive of the Irish
in Britain just over eight years ago as part of his comparative research on
migration from Korea to Japan and Ireland to Britain. He was based at the
Center for International Co-operation in Education at Meiji Gakum University
(address 1518 Kamikurata-cho, Totsuka-ku, Yokohama-shi 244, Japan) but did
not get back to me afterwards. My websearches have not turned anything up
on him but I have the telephone number he left me at the time if you want
it.

Tony Murray
Irish Studies Centre
London Metropolitan University

From: "d.m.jackson"
Subject: The Irish and Garibaldi
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 2004 13:37:04 -0000

An interesting footnote to the point made about Garibaldi, is that a riot
took place in Newcastle upon Tyne in 1866 over the same issue. What makes
this especialy interesting is that Newcastle had cultivated a reputation as
a welcoming place for Irish migrants. And this was a point constantly made
by the town's Radical Liberal MP, Joseph Cowen, who was also a vociferous
advocate of Irish Home Rule.

There were other reasons behind Newcastle's relative toleration of the
Irish, not least the religious profile of the North East - strongly
non-conformist, with areas of strong recusancy - and the fact that there was
little competition for work between the Irish and the English.

However, the support given to the rights of all national minorities by
Newcastle's Liberal establishment (Kossuth and Garibaldi both visited the
Tyne - the latter becoming something of a hero in the North East) did
provoke some Irishmen into wading into the crowds at a Horse Race in the
summer of 1866 with shouts of "Garibaldi or the Pope!"

The whole episode baffled Newcastle's press and judiciary. Some saw it as
evidence of Celtic perversion, and evidence of a latent
anti-Irish/anti-Catholic prejudice began to emerge with many making the
crude mistake of lumping together Irish loyalty to the Pope with the
contemporary threat of Fenianism.

A fuller account of this incident can be found in: D. M. Jackson,
'"Garibaldi or the Pope!" Newcastle's Irish Riot of 1866', North East
History, vol 34, 2001 (pp. 49-83)

Dan Jackson
109 Squires Building
Northumbria University
Newcastle upon Tyne
NE1 8ST
0191 227 3306




- -----Original Message-----
From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
[mailto:irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk]
Sent: Saturday, March 20, 2004 12:59 AM
To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Subject: Ir-D Irish & Islam 3




From: "Anthony Mcnicholas"
Subject: Re: Ir-D Re: Irish & Islam

I would echo what Piaras and Patrick have said. I think it a
curious aspect of jack sullivan's piece that he seems to be arguing that
what made the Irish acceptable, civilised, safe, was to have their Irishness
extracted. Being Irish is just one way of being human, like being English.
I also think he is also over optimistic about how well regarded Catholicism
was in
Victorian Britain, it might have less contentious than being Irish but
that's not saying much.
Has he ever heard of the Papal Agression furore? Part of the
impetus for funding Catholic schools was to ensure that good Anglicans were
not
contaminated by rubbing shoulders with Irish Papists. When Wiseman died it
was
said that his greatest achievement was to bring Catholicism in Britain out
of
the shadows and make it acceptable in society-precisely the same as what was
said about Basil Hume over one hundred years later. If Wiseman had already
done it,
how could Hume? And if it was Hume's achievement what about the status of
Catholics in the interim?
I also would have problems with his assumption, for such I think he has,
that a
religious identification is inherently 'safer' than one based on nationality
or
something else. The Fenian clashes with English supporters of Garibaldi in
Hyde
Park are an example of how an identification with the Pope on the part of
the
working class Irish in Britain, separated them from their English working
class
counterparts to whom Garibaldi was a hero..

To relate this back to Islam, I don't think it is necessarily helpful for
Moslems, who of course come from all levels of all kinds of countries to see
a
slight or an injury to a person in one part of the world as being as an
offence
against them, simply because they are both Moslems. That just leads us all
to this clash
of civilisations nonsense.
anthony



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The NorMAN MailScanner Service is operated by Information,
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From Email Patrick O'Sullivan

Just to explain...

Russell Murray has kindly agreed to retain some Irish-Diaspora list chores
for the time being - giving me a bit more time to concentrate on pressing
work...

And to give me time to look at the future of the Irish-Diaspora list, which
must - I think - involve moving us away from Majordomo at the University of
Bradford to Listserv at Jiscmail. This will mean my learning to handle yet
more (expletive deleted) software. But I cannot really see another way
forward.

(To those of you who do not know what the words 'Majordomo' and 'Listserv'
mean in this context, I say, Bless your ignorance. Cherish your
ignorance...)

I will continue to forward to the Irish-Diaspora list items of interest that
fall into our nets or are otherwise brought to our attention.

Would people try to make Russell's job easier by sending to
irish-diaspora[at]bradford.ac.uk
Only items for the Irish-Diaspora list.

Items meant for me personally should be sent to me personally.

P.O'S.

- --
Patrick O'Sullivan
Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit

Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Personal Fax 0044 (0) 709 236 9050

Irish-Diaspora list
Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/
Irish Diaspora Net Archive http://www.irishdiaspora.net

Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Department of Social Sciences and Humanities
University of Bradford
Bradford BD7 1DP
Yorkshire
England