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From: Michael Donnelly
mikedx[at]yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Bodies of murdered Irish rail workers 3

For information...


Philadelphia Inquirer, The (PA)

March 9, 2004
Section: LOCAL NEWS CHESTER COUNTY & THE REGION
Edition: CHESTER
Page: B01


Pair cast doubt on site of mass rail-worker grave
A marker honors 57 Irishmen who died in Malvern in the 1830s. But is it
accurate?
Benjamin Y. Lowe INQUIRER STAFF WRITER

Somewhere near SEPTA's R-5 Line in Malvern is the mass grave of 57 Irish
workers who died while toiling on the railroad in the 1830s.

For years, people have believed they were buried just feet from the track -
one marker was placed at the spot in 1909, another in 1998.
But recent research by two Immaculata University professors, William E.
Watson and John Ahtes, now challenges that presumed location - and other
aspects of the workers' sad story.

"It's mostly myth and forklore until now," Watson said. "We're in the
process of putting a real history behind it."

That may be so, but two local residents familiar with the site wonder why
the professors are asking questions. They say the bodies buried in southern
East Whiteland Township should be left alone.

"Why is it so necessary to look for the bones after all these years?" asked
Werner Liebig, one of the two opponents.

Watson and Ahtes have researched the site, known as Duffy's Cut, since
October 2002. They are preparing to find out whether bones are really buried
there, and, if so, they hope to excavate and analyze them to figure out what
happened.

Watson, a medieval history professor, said the men likely were buried in a
mass grave at the bottom of a hill they were hired to build for the
Philadelphia and Columbia Railroad in 1832.

"We hope to find out the number of men [at the site], and our goal is to
have them interred properly," Watson said.

But any proposed excavation, he said, would depend on results from a test
similar to a magnetic resonance image (MRI) to be conducted later this
month.

Analyzing the bones also could provide more information about the cause of
the men's deaths.

Still, Liebig and another resident, Daniel Maguire, said the site should be
left alone.

Six years ago, the two men repaired the granite monument that the railroad
built for the workers in 1909. They also installed a plaque that hangs above
the stone memorial stating black diphtheria as a cause of death. They
conduct a small ceremony at the site every St. Patrick's Day.

"I can't believe they are going to spend the time doing this," Liebig said.
"What are they going to gain? I think it should be left alone."

Both men believe the bodies are near the monument and say they are skeptical
that their account could be wrong.

Ahtes, though, said his and Watson's research tells a different story:

The Irishmen were hired in Philadelphia more than 170 years ago to help
build part of the railroad, Watson said.

Their task was to bridge two hills in the southwestern part of the township
with a large mound of dirt. They worked for Phillip Duffy, a Willistown
railroad contractor, who probably was waiting for workers on the dock when
the men's ship from Ireland arrived in Philadelphia.

The approximately 57 Irishmen who started work that June were dead by the
end of August. Duffy started out with a work gang of about 120.

The work there was delayed at least six months and completed by April 1834.

"The [original] contract suggests that they would have gotten another crew
up from down the line or some fresh workers," Ahtes said.

Duffy's Cut is about 150 feet high and two football fields long. It still
carries SEPTA, Amtrak and freight trains along what was once the Main Line
of Public Works, a state project of railroads, canals and roads that crossed
Pennsylvania.

Walter Licht, a University of Pennsylvania professor and railroad historian,
said it was common for employees who died on the job to be buried near the
tracks. But he said the number of workers believed to be buried at the site
surprised him. He said far more railroad workers died from accidents than
from disease.

Watson's work started in September 2002 when he found a file among papers
that he and his twin brother, Frank, had inherited from their grandfather,
Joseph F. Tripician. Tripician was the private secretary to Martin W.
Clement, who was president of the Pennsylvania Railroad for 16 years
starting in 1933.

Watson said the file explaining the site's history was kept in the company's
vault until Tripician removed it shortly after the railroad's bankruptcy in
1970.

Information in the file led Watson to a 300-square-foot depression in a
wooded area near the tracks - about 500 feet from the marked location. He
thinks it could be the mass grave.

In their research, Watson and Ahtes have searched local newspapers, read
through diaries, checked immigration records, and paged through the
Philadelphia and Columbia Railroad archive.

"This is still a work in progress, and we will continue our research until
we have exhausted all posssible sources," Ahtes said.

Contact staff writer Benjamin Y. Lowe at 610-701-7615 or
blowe[at]phillynews.com.



Illustration:PHOTO

LAURENCE KESTERSON / Inquirer Suburban Staff

William E. Watson (left) and twin brother Frank examine some track hardware
near the marker. They inherited relevant files from their grandfather, who
had been secretary to a Pennsylvania Railroad president. At top, visitors
look over the memorial along the SEPTA R-5 commuter line. William Watson and
fellow Immaculata University professor John Ahtes plan to do work that may
locate the remains and shed light on the deaths.

LAURENCE KESTERSON / Inquirer Suburban Staff

A depression in the soil that some now believe may mark the actual burial
site in Malvern gets scrutiny from (from left) Bob McAllister, a parks and
recreation ranger for Chester County; John Ahtes; Frank Watson; his brother
William E. Watson; and Earl Schandelmeier. William Watson and Ahtes have
studied Duffy's Cut since 2002.

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From: "Siobhan Maguire"
Cc:
Subject: Fw: [IR-D] Bodies of murdered Irish rail workers 2


Forwarded to the IR-D list for information...

To: M. Moughan,
I would be grateful if you could forward this message to Professor's Watson
and Ahtes.
Many thanks
Siobhan Maguire

Dear Professor's Watson and Ahtes,
I have just seen this article in the Irish Times and thought members of the
Irish Diaspora email list would be interested in your investigations. The
Irish Diaspora list is a contact group for academics interested in Irish
studies etc. and the list is used to exchange information and advice. Yo= u
can view information about the list on:
http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/misc/idl.shtml

This issue, as you can see from the response from Kerby Miller, would be of
interest to this group and you may wish to keep the group informed of the
outcome.

Good luck
Siobhan Maguire

----- Original Message -----
There followed the original IR-D email messdages...

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From: Richard Jensen
rjensen[at]uic.edu
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Bodies of murdered Irish rail workers 4

who claims these poor men were murdered? anyone?

the rival hypothesis that recent arrivals often died from disease is well
attested (see "coffin ships" literature as well as literature on cholera and
other epidemics.)

If murder--it would be probably the biggest mass murder in American history
(not counting big city riots and frontier warfare). And the Irish survivors
didn't talk about it or seek revenge? what part of Ireland did they come
from?

Richard Jensen rjensen[at]uic.edu

(Moderator's Note:
Richard Jensen's main point has been worrying me, too. The starting point
for this thread was a newspaper article, forwarded by Siobhan Maguire -
thank you, Siobhan... That article's headline I simply pasted into our IR-D
Subject line. On reflection that was maybe a bad idea. I've removed the
word 'murdered', until we have real evidence.

In Britain we have plenty of evidence of attacks on Irish workers in this
period, attacks which often ended in death. Frank Neal was telling me about
an incident hear Hull, on the north side of the Humber, where the Irish men
were driven out to their deaths in a muddy creek. I can't remember how the
story ended - were charges brought against the attackers, what charges, and
were the charges successful?
P.O'S.)

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: TOC, THE JOURNAL OF THE HISTORICAL SOCIETY, Vol. 4, No. 2 ,
(Spring 2004)
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Email Patrick O'Sullivan

I thought this might interest...

Elizabeth Fox-Genovese 's 'Editor's Introduction: Of the Writing of History'
is freely available on the web - and might be a footnote to Joe Lee's talk
at the ACIS/BAIS/Efacis Conference in Liverpool this week...

Elizabeth Fox-Genovese begins with a quotation from the Irish-born
scientist, John Desmond Bernal - and you don't see many of those, these
days.

Bernal, born in Nenagh, Co Tipperary, was a scientist, Marxist, and an
extraordinarily influential figure in 1930s England - he appears in C. P.
Snow twice, once in a work of fiction, and later in a work of fact. A
Bernal sphere is a type of space habitat, first proposed in 1929... There
are many stories of Bernal's move from Irish Catholicism to Marxist atheism.
I think the family name is of Jewish origin...

There is much on the web - see for example
Helenia Sheehan's pages...
http://www.comms.dcu.ie/sheehanh/bernal.htm

and
The Great Sage, by Max Perutz
http://www.chemsoc.org/chembytes/ezine/2001/perutz_apr01.htm

Returning to Elizabeth Fox-Genovese... Her Introduction is shaped by the
articles she must introduce - but cumulatively it is a complaint, by a
professional historian, about some recent trends in the academic discipline,
history...

P.O'S.


-----Original Message-----
From: The Historical Society
Subject: TOC for THE JOURNAL OF THE HISTORICAL SOCIETY, Vol. 4, No. 2
(Spring 2004)
Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2004 11:01:24 -0400

You can now access on-line the full text version of Elizabeth Fox-Genovese's
Introduction, "Of the Writing of History," as well as excerpts from the rest
of the issue's essays at http://www.bu.edu/historic/journal_spring2004.html

THE JOURNAL OF THE HISTORICAL SOCIETY
Vol. 4, No. 2 (Spring 2004)

Elizabeth Fox-Genovese, "Editor's Introduction: Of the Writing of History"

Jim Sleeper, "Orwell's 'Smelly Little Orthodoxies'--and Ours"

Joseph Lucas, "The West in Perspective: An Interview with David Landes"

Karen E. Fields, "On Emile Durkheim's __The Elementary Forms of Religious
Life__: The Scholarly Translator's Work"

David Konstan, "Progeny of the Warrior: Dean Miller's Epic Heroes"

Fay A.. Yarbrough, "Speaking of Books: __Love and Hate in Jamestown__"

Allan Kulikoff, "Electric Ben: Franklin and Popular History"

Bruce Kuklick, "Biography and American Intellectual History"

Anthony D'Agostino, "The Revisionist Tradition in European Diplomatic
History"

Joseph Lucas
The Historical Society
656 Beacon St., Mezzanine
Boston, MA 02215
Phone:617-358-0260
Fax:617-358-0250
www.bu.edu/historic
historic[at]bu.edu

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Subject: Irish language in European Union
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From: Dymphna.Lonergan[at]flinders.edu.au=20

Here's some good news for those interested in the Irish language. I've
copied it from the www.gaelport.com site:


Status of Irish in the European Union

Cuireann Comhdh=E1il N=E1isi=FAnta na Gaeilge m=EDle f=E1ilte roimh =
chinneadh an
Rialtais St=E1das Ioml=E1n Oibre a lorg don Ghaeilge san Aontas Eorpach. =
C=E9im
mh=F3r stairi=FAil =ED seo agus ceann a chabhr=F3s go m=F3r le h=E1it na =
Gaeilge a
bhuan=FA sa t=EDr. T=E1 moladh ar leith tuillte ag an Aire =D3 Cu=EDv T. =
D. agus ag
oifigigh a Roinn as an r=E9amhobair a rinne siad in ullmh=FA an =
mheamraim don
chruinni=FA Rialtais.

Comhdh=E1il N=E1isi=FAnta na Gaeilge welcomes the decision of the =
Government today
to seek Official Status for the Irish language in the European Union. =
This
is an historic day for the Irish language and will no doubt add to its
status at home. Comhdh=E1il N=E1isi=FAnta na Gaeilge wishes to =
acknowledge the
work of Minister =D3 Cu=EDv T.D. and his officials in preparing the =
memorandum
on this subject for the Government meeting.

14.07.2004

sl=E1n
Dymphna

Dr Dymphna Lonergan
Professional English Administrator
8201 2079 room 261 Humanities
The Irish Language in Australia, Australian English, Hiberno English, =
Irish
Australian writing=20

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From: MacEinri, Piaras
p.maceinri[at]ucc.ie
Subject: British identity controls in Dublin airport

List readers travelling to Ireland may be interested in the following report
in today's Sunday Independent. If true, it seems to me to be inappropriate,
extraordinary and possible illegal. Some of us still labour under the quaint
illusion that we live in an independent country.

Piaras

UK officials interrogating Irish at our main airport

Sunday July 18th 2004


LIAM COLLINS

and DON LAVERY

IRISH people are being randomly stopped at Dublin Airport and are being
subjected to questioning by immigration officers from the UK, it has been
learned.

Yesterday the Minister for Justice faced demands to make a statement on the
development, which the Labour Party claimed was "highly irregular". Fine
Gael said it was "inappropriate".

The Sunday Independent has confirmed that UK immigration officers have been
questioning Irish citizens arriving at Dublin Airport as part of what the
Department of Justice here calls a "joint operation" to protect the "common
travel area" from illegal immigrants.

The joint British-Irish operations at the airport have been sanctioned by
the Minister for Justice, Mr McDowell, and are part of a "series of joint
operations" at Irish ports and airports.

An Irish businessmen objected to being questioned by British officials at
Dublin Airport 10 days ago, after he was referred to them by gardai.

The businessman was referred to the UK's immigration officials when he
failed to produce visual identification while going through passport control
after arriving on a Ryanair flight from London.

The British official admitted to the businessman that he was from the
British immigration service, and said he was on a "training course" at the
airport.

But the Department of Justice has told the the Sunday Independent that the
series of joint British-Irish operations have been established "to preserve
the common travel area as it currently exists for the benefit of Irish and
British citizens."

A common travel area is in existence between Ireland and the UK (including
the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man).

There is no formal agreement between Ireland and UK regarding the common
travel area, and it is not provided for in legislation. The first legal
recognition of the common travel area between Ireland and the UK is
contained in the Treaty of Amsterdam.

Sources in the Department of Justice deny that the joint operation has been
established because of a lack of confidence by the UK authorities on Irish
border controls.

Department sources say the joint approach is "to combat trafficking and to
monitor the extent to which the various travel routes are being abused".

The common travel area did not have immigration controls prior to 1997, but
since then spot-checks have been introduced.

The Irish businessman, who holds both Irish and US passports, was stopped at
passport control by a garda member. As his passports were in a briefcase -
which he did not want to open - he produced a US driving licence when asked
for identification. This did not have his picture.

He told the Garda that he did not require visual identification to travel
between Ireland and Britain. At that stage he was handed over to two UK
immigration officers.

The man was subsequently let through passport control after he disputed
their authority to question him on Irish soil and asked under what section
of Irish law they were operating.

The Department of Justice has defended its role in bringing UK immigration
officers to Ireland, saying it is part of its mission to "protect" the
common travel area which allows Irish and British citizens to travel freely
between the two jurisdictions.

"The common travel area is being abused on a widespread basis by persons who
are neither Irish or British citizens, to travel from one jurisdiction to
the other without proper documentation," said the Department of Justice in
reply to questions.

Widespread abuse of false documentation "has become a major feature of the
immigration scene," the department added.

However, Labour's Justice spokesman Joe Costello described the practice as
"highly irregular" and said he would have concerns about having foreign
officials operating in Irish ports and airports.

"It is something that should be discussed, and not done secretly behind the
scenes. The Minister should make a pronouncement about it and bring it
before the Oireachtas where it can be debated," he said.

He added: "It is our jurisdiction. It should not be the norm that any other
nationals from another jurisdiction should be operating as if they were
Irish officials."

The Fine Gael Justice spokesman, TD Jim O'Keeffe, said that he did not think
that it was appropriate for officials from outside the country to be dealing
directly with Irish citizens.

"My reaction to the story is that I would understand how that businessman
felt and I would feel that there should not be interrogation by British
officialdom on Irish soil."

The Department of Justice did not specify under what section of Irish
immigration laws British immigration inspectors could operate in Ireland, or
whether visual ID was now necessary to travel between Ireland and Britain.

C Irish Independent
http://www.unison.ie/irish_independent/ & http://www.unison.ie/

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From: Thomas J. Archdeacon
tjarchde[at]wisc.edu
Subject: RE: [IR-D] British identity controls in Dublin airport

The report from the Irish Independent relayed to the list by Piaras raises
interesting questions. The unease of Irish citizens who find themselves
seemingly under the authority of British officials is easy to understand.
As a person living in a nation that engages in considerable activity
concerning border coordination with its principal neighbors and that has
authorized its NATO allies to conduct aerial patrols over its territory at
critical moments in the past few years, however, I think we need to sort out
the technical and legal issues in play here.

In US law, the act of physically landing at an American port or airport does
not automatically constitute having entered the United States. Courts have
engaged in very fine reasoning about what does and does not constitute
"entry" into US jurisdiction. Do persons in transit to Ireland find
themselves in a similar legal limbo before they cross a certain physical or
legal threshold at Dublin or Shannon? I just don't know, but, if they are
in some legally vague situation, the Irish government may have considerable
latitude in what it does.

Overall, it sounds as if both the UK and Ireland would be better off if they
spelled out in law concept such as "common travel area" and instituted
requirements for the showing of appropriate passports, if they deem such
steps necessary. Informal arrangements will inevitably involve questions of
the kind raised in the original news report.

Tom

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From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Book/Exhibition Announced, Irish in Victorian London
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Email Patrick O'Sullivan

We have received the following Press Release from the National Portrait
Gallery, London WC2H 0HE...

Note that the Exhibition is not in place until March next year, 2005.

P.O'S.


=91Conquering England=92
The Irish in Victorian London

R.F. Foster and Fintan Cullen=09
Foreword by Fiona Shaw
=09
=91England had conquered Ireland, so there was nothing for it but to =
come over
and conquer England.=92
G.B. Shaw, The Matter with Ireland

Under the Union between Britain and Ireland in 1801, the two countries =
were
engaged in a relationship that was quarrelsome, contentious and in many =
ways
interdependent. Yet it also provided a wider arena for certain ambitions =
in
literature, politics and the arts. Irish talent was exported to London =
in
the nineteenth century; by the turn of the twentieth it was being =
imported
back to an Ireland undergoing political radicalisation and cultural
renaissance. This book, which accompanies a National Portrait Gallery
exhibition, explores the Irish presence in London during the Victorian
period, focusing on prominent individuals including Oscar Wilde, W.B. =
Yeats
and G.B. Shaw; theatrical impresarios such as Bram Stoker; history =
painters
such as Daniel Maclise; charismatic politicians such as Charles Stewart
Parnell and colourful journalists such as T.P. O=92Connor. Through them =
the
book reveals the changing perspectives on Ireland that developed during =
the
second half of the nineteenth century.

Accompanies an exhibition at the National Portrait Gallery from 9 March =
to
19 June 2005.

R.F. Foster is Carroll Professor of Irish History at the University of
Oxford and is a Fellow of Hertford College. He has written widely on =
Irish
history, society and politics in the modern period, as well as on =
Victorian
high politics and culture. His second volume of the authorised biography =
of
W.B. Yeats was published in 2003 to great acclaim.=20

Fintan Cullen teaches at the University of Nottingham and is the author =
of
Visual Politics: The Representation of Ireland 1750=961930, Sources in =
Irish
Art: A Reader and The Irish Face: Redefining the Irish Portrait =
published by
the National Portrait Gallery.
=20
=20
Specification
240 x 180mm, 64 pages
50 illustrations
ISBN 1 85514 348 8
Price =A311.99 TBC, (paperback)
Published March 2005 =20
=20
National Portrait Gallery
Publications
St Martin=92s Place
London WC2H 0HE

T 020 7312 2482
F 020 7306 0092
E pvadhia[at]npg.org.uk =20

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From: MacEinri, Piaras
p.maceinri[at]ucc.ie
Subject: RE: [IR-D] British identity controls in Dublin airport 2

A couple of comments on Tom's valuable response.

We have the same ambiguity here as in the US about the distinction between
physically being in the country and having 'entered' it. In Ireland the term
used is 'landed'. We used to grab would-be asylum seekers (or 'jumpers')
from Aeroflot flights passing through Shannon and push them back on the
plane, often by force, to an uncertain destiny. Some bureacrat would say
they hadn't used the precise form of words required to justify the claim for
asylum. Anyway, they were held not to have 'landed', although the legality
of this has always been dubious. The underlying reality, as always in
Ireland, was that commercial interests - in this case Aeroflot's presence in
Shannon - always win out over such pettifogging issues as human rights.
Nowadays we are happy to accept US dollars to allow the the US military to
transit through Shannon on their way to kill more Iraqis.

The Common Travel Area is so vague and secretive that the two principal
administrations don't even use the same terms - we say Agreement, and the UK
says Area. It has never been legislated for and have never, as far as I
know, been the subject of proper public scrutiny, public debate etc. The
origins of the arrangement lie in a most interesting dilemma. When Ireland
declared a Republic in 1949 and left the Commonwealth at the same time a
challenge was presented to the UK and Irish immigration authorities. As the
two countries no longer had any formal relationship (this changed in the
1960s and 1970s, especially with entry to the EEC), should not citizens of
each country be treated as foreigners, or aliens, by the other? Some Home
Office officials and conservative politicians favoured this but there were
more pragmatic voices which wanted cheap Irish labour to build the motorways
of Britain. And after all, the Irish were white..

The CTA was the outcome of this debate - a pragmatic arrangement that
allowed for continued free movement, without passports, between the two
jurisdictions. It also had an unintended side-effect, not perhaps very
important at the time, that Ireland in effect adopted UK immigration policy
and duly kept out those the UK did not want, in order to prevent a 'back
door' to Britain being created. As UK policy became gradually more racist,
we duly followed suit. It went much further than that however. As a former
diplomat I know that the Home Office 'black list' of undesirable was
circulated regulated to all Irish diplomatic and consular missions and
anyone on it was automatically refused entry into Ireland. The logic of this
was clear - if a 'terrorist', Maggie Thatcher's term for Nelson Mandela, was
on their blacklist, we wouldn't have him/her either.

People didn't generally realise that the CTA contained a fundamental flaw -
it was only designed to facilitate UK and Irish citizens - all others needed
passports. The trouble was, how did we know who was entitled not have have
carry documents, except by asking for their documents? The solution followed
in Ireland was simple - pick on those who looked different. Ethnic profiling
was widely used in the late 1990s - I recall an angry interview with a Black
Irish West Belfast man, who had been forcibly removed from the Dublin bus at
Dundalk.

Is there a way forward that might get us out of this nonsense? In a word yes
- we should join the Schengen arrangements which now provide for free
movement between the other 23 EU member states, provided certain necessary
human rights protections are introduces. The only reason we are not in
Schengen is because the British are not and the only reason they are not is
because UK immigration authorities don't trust their Italian and Portuguese
colleagues and prefer to keep the right to require documentation at the
point of entry to the UK. The other option of requiring Irish people to show
passports on entry into Britain, and vice versa, would probably be
politically unacceptable.

Recent moves by the British Home Office to move towards a compulsory
national identity card will probably render much of this debate redundant.
If an ID card becomes necessary in the UK it will in practice become
necessary to have one if one it travelling there. Right wing justice
ministers such as the present incumbent will seize on this to introduce them
here. The CTA will gradually become irrelevant.

Piaras

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From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Query, Recommend biography of de Valera
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From: Linda Dowling Almeida
lindaalmeida[at]hotmail.com
Subject: looking for a good bio on deValera


Can anyone on the list recommend a good, accessible biography of Eamonn de
Valera for a non-academic, but well read student of Irish history? Thanks
for any suggestions.

Linda Dowling Almeida
New York University

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From: P.Maume[at]Queens-Belfast.AC.UK
Subject: [IR-D] Query, Recommend biography of de Valera

From: Patrick Maume

I'm not really sure. Pauric Travers is brief but I'm not sure how
comprehensive it is. Coogan is long and obsessively
unbalanced. One of he ever-mutating Ryle Dwyer titles might be best as an
introduction. Dudley Edwards is short but given to psychological
speculation. O'Neill and Longford is long and reverential but provides De
Valera's retrospective case for himself as he wanted it seen. Terry de
Valera, the youngest son, has just published a memoir which gives excellent
insights into the private man but from a hero-worshipper's standpoint.

The older biographies (MJ MacMAnus, the two O Faolain biographies, Bromage
etc) assume contemporary knowledge and didn't know what would happen next.
UCD PRess have a recently reprinted specimen of this sort by Robert Brennan
in their Classics of Irish History series; it originally appeared in De
Valera's paper THE IRISH PRESS during his first presidential campaign, so he
is naturally presented as the Bayard of Irish politics.

Best wishes,
Patrick

> From: Linda Dowling Almeida
> lindaalmeida[at]hotmail.com
> Subject: looking for a good bio on deValera
>
>
> Can anyone on the list recommend a good, accessible biography of
> Eamonn de Valera for a non-academic, but well read student of Irish
> history? Thanks for any suggestions.
>
> Linda Dowling Almeida
> New York University

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From: Patrick O'Sullivan
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From: P.Maume[at]Queens-Belfast.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] British identity controls in Dublin airport

From: Patrick Maume

There is an obvious parallel to this arrangement which seems to have
escaped everyone's notice. There are US immigration officials stationed at
Dublin airport so that people travelling to the US can be cleared (or not
cleared as the case may be) at Dublin rather than having to wait for
clearance at the other end.
Best wishes,
Patrick

> From: MacEinri, Piaras
> p.maceinri[at]ucc.ie
> Subject: British identity controls in Dublin airport
>
> List readers travelling to Ireland may be interested in the following
> report in today's Sunday Independent. If true, it seems to me to be
> inappropriate, extraordinary and possible illegal. Some of us still
> labour under the quaint illusion that we live in an independent country.
>
> Piaras
>
> UK officials interrogating Irish at our main airport
>
> Sunday July 18th 2004
>
>
> LIAM COLLINS
>
> and DON LAVERY
>
> IRISH people are being randomly stopped at Dublin Airport and are
> being subjected to questioning by immigration officers from the UK, it
> has been learned.

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Subject: Too few priests in Ireland 3
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From: P.Maume[at]Queens-Belfast.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Too few priests in Ireland

From: Patrick Maume

One interesting point - I've sometimes heard it suggested that this is
simply a return to 'normal' conditions, and it is pointed out that before
the Famine the priest to population ratio was much lower. The trouble with
this argument is that, as Donal Kerr pointed out in his books on Catholicism
in the 1840s and Emmet Larkin stated in a recent paper to the
Nineteenth-Century Ireland Society conference, the reason the pre-Famine
Church had so few priests was not that it was short of applicants, but that
it could not afford to train and support all those who applied.

This argument, by the way, seems to be used by liberal Catholic
contributors who are somewhat ambivalent about whether a priest shortage is
a problem. I've even heard it argued that the drying up of vocations is a
good thing as it encourages greater lay participation...

BTW I was in St. Anthony's Church, Scotland Road, Liverpool, to visit the
Famine memorial cente in the crypt. A wedding was being conducted, and I
notced the officiating priest was Indian or Filipino. Another diaspora.

Best wishes,
Patrick


> >From Email Patrick O'Sullivan
>
> This item appeared on H-Catholic...
>
> This person's prose style has some odd features - 'Limerick, a
> hardscrabble city...'?
>
> P.O'S.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> July 11, 2004
>
> New York Times
> Once an Exporter of Priests, Ireland Now Has Too Few By LIZETTE
> ALVAREZ
>
> [Excerpt]
>

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Subject: Kuch, Irelands in the Pacific 2
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From: Chad Habel
chad.habel[at]flinders.edu.au
Subject: Re: Kuch (ed.), Irelands in the Pacific


Dear Patrick,

Yes, this looks like a very interesting volume, especially for us
Antipodeans - thanks for the reference. I chased it up through the
author and got some more info:

The book is published and can be obtained from Colin Smythe, Gerrards
Cross, UK His email address, etc all the contact details are on his
website.

http://www.colin-smythe.com/

I'll certainly get a hold of one of these, and others might also be
interested...

Cheers,
Chad Habel
Flinders University of South Australia

Chad Habel
PhD Candidate
Part-time Lecturer/Tutor (English)
Enrichment Program Co-ordinator
Project Officer

Flinders University of South Australia
GPO Box 2100
Adelaide 5001
Ph (08) 8201 5308
Fax (08) 8201 3171


"Knowing is not enough,
We must apply.

Willing is not enough,
We must do."

- Bruce Lee (1940-1973)

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From Email Patrick O'Sullivan

From...

THE IRISH EMIGRANT
Editor: Liam Ferrie - July 19, 2004 - Issue No.911

Forwarded with permission...

P.O'S.

New unit to address emigrant needs

The Department of Foreign Affairs will set up a new unit to work =
exclusively
on emigration issues, said Minister for Foreign Affairs Brian Cowen in
London today. The unit will coordinate the provision of assistance to
emigrants and work with other Government departments to advance the
implementation of the recent Task Force Report on Emigration. In =
announcing
the Unit, Minister Cowen said "I am very confident that this dedicated =
unit
will introduce a new dynamic into our collective effort to advance this
important area of national policy."The unit will be headed by the =
current
Ambassador to Estornia, Se=E1n Farrell, who grew up in Manchester. Mr =
Cowan
also announced grants totalling =803.26 million for organisations =
working with
Irish emigrants living in poverty in the UK. Up to 65 projects involving =
57
organisations will benefit from the cash injection. Mr Cowen, who met =
with
organisation chiefs in the Irish Embassy in London on Thursday, said =
that
the experience of emigrants in Britain has "not always been a happy =
one".
The Minister went on to say that, while a great number of Irish people =
who
had travelled to Britain in the 1950s had made good lives for =
themselves, a
minority now find themselves in a disadvantaged position through no =
fault of
their own.

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Subject: Recommend Biography of de Valera 3
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From Email Patrick O'Sullivan

The name Eamon de Valera has caused me more trouble as an editor than any
other. The first name he always spelled with one N, and the accent on the E
- Irish copy editors still try to spell it with 2 Ns. For the de in de
Valera he used lower case, the Spanish, Cuban usage - English copy editors
will automatically change that to De. In my own notes to copy editors I
remind them of this - but I have received text back from copy editors with
every de changed to De, I have changed these, and yet in the PROOFS there is
De again...

The nickname, Dev or deV, is also problematic since - by the nature of
things - Dev often finds himself at the beginning of a sentence.

Anyway...

The Wordiq site has an unusually long - for the web - unsigned entry on de
Valera...

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Eamon_de_Valera
Eamon de Valera

This is part of a sequence on
Politics of the Republic of Ireland
http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Politics_of_the_Republic_of_Ireland

These might help with readings of the biographies - which Patrick Maume has
helpfully listed and which, as he points out, all have their own agendas,
problems and shortcomings.

P.O'S.


--
Patrick O'Sullivan
Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit

Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Personal Fax 0044 (0) 709 236 9050

Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/
Irish Diaspora Net
http://www.irishdiaspora.net

Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Department of Social Sciences and Humanities
University of Bradford
Bradford BD7 1DP
Yorkshire
England

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From: MacEinri, Piaras
p.maceinri[at]ucc.ie
Subject: RE: [IR-D] British identity controls in Dublin airport 4

I don't agree with Patrick that the US immigration clearance arrangement in
Shannon and Dublin constitutes a parallel at all. The only parallel to the
American case would be one where an _Irish_ immigration officer stationed in
_Britain_ or elsewhere cleared a person travelling to Ireland before that
person boarded a flight or ferry. In fact, this actually happens in
Cherbourg as part of measures designed to combat undocumented immigration.

The Sunday Independent report, if accurate, is quite a different matter as
it apparently involves identity controls by British immigration officers
operating on Irish soil in order to determine whether an Irish or other
individual has the right to enter Ireland. I doubt very much if there are
any Irish immigration officers checking people as they enter Britain.
Moreover, I don't think that a service which for years has operated a
disriminatory regime, the so-called Prevention of Terrorism Act, and which
has harrassed countless innocent Irish citizens travelling to Britain,
should be allowed to operate with impunity in Ireland.

Finally, as Tom has pointed out, the regime is fundamentally unclear as it
is not based on clear legislation. There is, for instance, no written
requirement to produce an identity document with a photograph. I have
frequently been asked, both by the British and Irish side but more
frequently by the latter, for a passport. Even when carrying one, say after
a continental visit, I do not produce it; we either have a common travel
area without passport controls or we don't.

Piaras

> -----Original Message-----
>
> From: P.Maume[at]Queens-Belfast.AC.UK
> Subject: Re: [IR-D] British identity controls in Dublin airport
>
> From: Patrick Maume
>
> There is an obvious parallel to this arrangement which seems to have
> escaped everyone's notice. There are US immigration officials
> stationed at Dublin airport so that people travelling to the US can be
> cleared (or not cleared as the case may be) at Dublin rather than
> having to wait for clearance at the other end.
> Best wishes,
> Patrick

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Subject: Query, Taoiseach/ Priomh Aire
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From: Brian Lambkin
Brian.lambkin[at]uafp.co.uk]
Subject: RE: [IR-D] Recommend Biography of de Valera 3

Dear Paddy
Speaking of Dev/deV, can anyone please help with how and why the term
Taoiseach was preferred to Priomh Aire in the 1937 Constitution, and what
role,if any, did Micheal O Griobhtha have, who was responsible for the Irish
language version?

Brian Farrell, Chairman or Chief? - the role of Taoiseach in Irish
Government (Dublin, Gill and Macmillan, 1971)does not go very deeply into
the matter.

many thanks
Brian

Brian Lambkin (Dr)
Director
Centre for Migration Studies
Ulster-American Folk Park,
Castletown, Omagh, Co. Tyrone
Northern Ireland, BT78 5QY
Tel: 00 44 28 82256315
Fax: 00 44 28 82242241
Websites: www.qub.ac.uk/cms/ and www.folkpark.com

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From: prescot32[at]tiscali.co.uk

The priest at St Anthony's, Scotland Road, Liverpool, is Sri Lankan.

Frank Neal



-----Original Message-----
>From: P.Maume[at]Queens-Belfast.AC.UK
>Subject: Re: [IR-D] Too few priests in Ireland

... BTW I was in St. Anthony's Church, Scotland Road, Liverpool, to
visit the Famine memorial cente in the crypt. A wedding was being
conducted, and
I noticed the officiating priest was Indian or Filipino. Another diaspora.

>Best wishes,
> Patrick

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From: Peter Hart
phart[at]mun.ca
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Recommend Biography of de Valera 2


I agree with Patrick - I'd say your best bet is Ryle Dwyer's recent `The Man
and the Myths'. Coogan is fascinating as the case for the prosecution but
is also disgusting in parts, not to mention misleading.

Peter Hart

>From: P.Maume[at]Queens-Belfast.AC.UK
>Subject: [IR-D] Query, Recommend biography of de Valera
>
>From: Patrick Maume
>
> I'm not really sure. Pauric Travers is brief but I'm not sure how
>comprehensive it is. Coogan is long and obsessively
>unbalanced. One of he ever-mutating Ryle Dwyer titles might be best as an
>introduction. Dudley Edwards is short but given to psychological
>speculation. O'Neill and Longford is long and reverential but provides
>De Valera's retrospective case for himself as he wanted it seen. Terry
>de Valera, the youngest son, has just published a memoir which gives
>excellent insights into the private man but from a hero-worshipper's
standpoint.
>
>The older biographies (MJ MacMAnus, the two O Faolain biographies,
>Bromage etc) assume contemporary knowledge and didn't know what would
happen next.
>UCD PRess have a recently reprinted specimen of this sort by Robert
>Brennan in their Classics of Irish History series; it originally
>appeared in De Valera's paper THE IRISH PRESS during his first
>presidential campaign, so he is naturally presented as the Bayard of Irish
politics.
>
> Best wishes,
> Patrick
>