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From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Naming patterns in the Irish diaspora
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From: Joe Bradley
j.m.bradley[at]stir.ac.uk

Naming patterns in the Irish diaspora in the 19th century 2

Using saints names was commonplace amongst the Irish in Scotland. Where
someone - for whatever reason - wished to deviate from this - a priest
would sometimes/often request the parents to include a saints names as a
middle name.

I would think this is fairly logical in terms of the thinking behind
Catholic practice, heritage and aspirations (spiritually speaking of
course) etc, though being 'forced' to choose such a name is a different
question. Not using saints names has also been common in Scotland
amongst some in the diaspora when parents looked ahead to a time when
their child was adult and at potential discriminatory practices in the
employment market and not acquiring employment because one was Catholic
(denoted by name, place of residence, school attended, etc).

Somewhat like the North of Ireland there has also been a small
revolution amongst many Catholic communities of Irish descent in
Scotland and Irish forenames have taken off in the past 15 years or so -
though the old practices of people hiding or simply not wishing to
recognise their Irishness is also apparent. The onset of so many 'mixed'
marriages now in Scotland (in the past 20 years) has also introduced
some interesting politics amongst families when it comes to naming
children.

Although Patrick and Bridget (and Bernadette and Michael) are hardly
ever used now amongst the young Irish diaspora in Scotland there has
been a rise in the use of Ciaran (K), Erin, Sean, Caitlin, Orla, Conor,
Declan etc

Joe Bradley

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From: Brian Lambkin

Brian.Lambkin[at]magni.org.ukSubject: FW: FW: [IR-D] Irishtown

Dear Paddy
I have been forwarding the flurry of Irishtown stuff this morning to my
wife, Kay, at the Northern Ireland Placename Project and she has sent this.
Bw
Brian

(MODERATOR's NOTE:

Thanks to Brian Lambkin and Kay Mohr.
Kay's material came in the form of a table in MS Word - which is impossible
to send on in Plain Text email. Anyone who wants the table should contact
me directly. But see also the project's web site www.pointer-ni.gov.uk

P.O'S.)

-----Original Message-----
From: Northern Ireland Place-Name Project [mailto:townlands[at]qub.ac.uk]
Sent: 25 January 2006 11:10
To: Brian Lambkin
Subject: Re: FW: [IR-D] Irishtown

Brian

I have excerpted place-names with the word Irish in them from the NI
Gazetteer (appended, in a table - 62k) - could you send it on to the list?

It seems to indicate 'native' rather than 'settler' here - I could do a
parallel list for Scotch, the usual term of contrast (and maybe also
English).

Kay

Placename

Ballindreen Irish (townland)

Ballyrock Irish (townland)

Cravenny Irish (townland)

Gorticrum Irish (townland)

Irish Ardtole

Irish Cah

Irish Cam

Irish Corran

Irish Corran (townland)

Irish Craigs

Irish Garvagh

Irish Harp

Irish Hill (townland)

Irish Hill

Irish Hill

Irish Hill

Irish Hill

Irish Houses

Irish Quarter

Irish Tirgarvil

Irish Town

Irishhill Bridge

Irishomerbane (townland)

Irishtown

Irishtown

Irishtown (townland)

Lisnaragh Irish (townland)

Nurchossy Irish (townland)

Royal Irish Fusiliers Museum

Shantavny Irish (townland)

The above are gleaned from the Gazetteer to the place-names of Northern
Ireland on www.pointer-ni.gov.uk, though at present only the townlands (not
printable) are visible to the public.


Northern Ireland Place-Name Project
c/o Irish & Celtic Studies, School of Languages, Literatures & Arts
Queen's University Belfast, BT7 1NN.
tel. 02890 973689, fax 02890 975298.
Website www.ulsterplacenames.org
Researchers Dr Kay Muhr, Dr Patrick McKay
Working for OSNI/Mosaic/Pointer "Information on Location" 2005-6
www.pointer-ni.gov.uk (tab: Townlands)

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From: Stephen Brighton
Subject: Re: Irishtown
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Hello All,

There a countless Irish town names throughout America, although many do
not contain the word "Irish" in them. Aside from Butte there are place
names such as the Kerrypatch in St. Louis, and the Irish section of
Paterson, New Jersey known as Dublin, as well as a town named Hibernia
also in New Jersey. Both places follow the Morris Canal (Irish labor)
that connected Pennsylvania to the ports of Newark, New Jersey. In New
England there is a Belfast, Maine and perhaps more interesting are two
towns one either side of industrial town Manchester, New Hampshire;
Derry and Londonderry.

It is a very interesting study and I look forward to hearing more about
this.

Stephen




Stephen A. Brighton
Assistant Professor
0132 Woods Hall
Department of Anthropology
University of Maryland
College Park, MD 20742
phone: 301-405-3700
fax: 301-314-8305
email: sbrighton[at]anth.umd.edu

>>> Patrick O'Sullivan 01/26/06 2:07 AM
>>>
From: William Mulligan JrSubject: RE: [IR-D] Irishtown

Interesting query. What about "Corktown," as an informal designation
for a
section of a city or county, " of which there are many or Butte's
Dublin
Gulch -- Butte was thoroughly Irish. There are lots of Irish place
names
associated, informally, with neighborhoods. It seems a leap without
research to assume it was always derogatory. Then, there are the
formal
place names. What to make of them?

Is Mervyn Busteed on the list? It would be good to hear from him on
this.

Bill
William H. Mulligan, Jr., Ph.D.
Professor of History
Murray State University
Murray KY 42071-3341 USA




-----Original Message-----

Email Patrick O'Sullivan

I discuss this in the Introduction to

Patrick O'Sullivan, ed., The Irish in the New Communities Volume 2 of
The
Irish World Wide Leicester University Press, London & Washington

And flagged up the issue by publishing Mervyn Busteed's important
first
probe as Chapter 1.

The myth and reality of Irish migrants in mid-nineteenth century
Manchester:
a preliminary study M. A. Busteed, R. I. Hodgson and T. F. Kennedy

Mervyn and I al;ways give good references. (By the way, I have spare
copies
of The Irish in the New Communities, if anyone needs one...)

And Mervyn - historical geographer - gives maps.

Manchester's Little Ireland and Irish Town are 2 separate places -
Little
Ireland to the SW of the city centre, near Oxford Road, and Irish Town
to
the NE. This included ANGEL Meadow. Which was Mervyn's study area.

Irishtowns in Ireland - for example in Clonmel and Kilkenny, and of
course,
Dublin - speak of a different pattern, control and ejection. Compare
Dublin's Ostmantown/Oxmantown...

There are Irishtowns throughout the English-speaking world, but my
impression is that each one's history will have to be hunted down, one
by
one - remembering that Irish and Ireland are also family names - to see
the
patterns.

Paddy

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From: "D.C. Rose"
Subject: Naming patterns
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As I have from time to time reflected on changing naming patterns in =
France, my feeling, and I am sorry that this is even lower on the scale =
than anecdote, being that names like Achille or Hippolyte have been =
driven out by names like Kevin. This is to suggest that there are other =
factors than 'ethnic' identity at work. Patrick is at least as common =
here as Patrice, and St=E9phane seems to be replacing Etienne.

In Britain (where I went to school), I did not ever hear of a Bridget or =
Brigid (except the Scottish actress Brigid Forsyth), but two very =
distinguished Patricks (the judge Patrick Devlin and the journalist =
Patrick Donovan) were clearly unhampered by their names. King Edward =
VIII was also called Patrick. As for Michael, I doubt if this was =
identified as specifically Irish, although 'Mick' clearly was. Sean or =
Seamus does not seem to have moved beyond the Irish community, but if I =
recall my Raymond Chandler, did not 'shamus' became a U.S. generic term =
for a 'private eye'?

The anglicisation of Irish names in Ireland ('Jeremiah' for 'Diarmuid') =
was certainly priestly intervention against 'pagan' names. Identifying =
different naming patterns between Catholics and Protestants, and between =
Church of Ireland and Dissenters, might also show some interesting =
anomalies.

When I was doing some work on the electoral list in north Dublin a few =
years ago, every fifth voter seemed to be called Jason. This was not, I =
was told, survival of classical education a la Translations, but the =
result of the popularity of either a singer or a television character (I =
forget which) some years earlier.

The changing of names for purposes of blurring recognition was very =
common among Jewish people, and if there are studies of this, a =
comparison of the two would be useful. Rather out of my field.

David Rose
Paris XVe

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Subject: origin of culchie
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Dear Friends,

I am new to the list, so please forgive me if this is a question that has b=
een handled already.

Can anyone point me toward a reference that would give the origin of the te=
rm "culchie"? My edition of the OED does not list it, and an online search=
has not been helpful. Thanks very much.

Michael

Michael Patrick Gillespie
Louise Edna Goeden Professor of English
Marquette University

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From: Patrick O'Sullivan
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From: Johanne Devlin Trew
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Irishtown

Dear Dymphna,

I found Keith Lilley's work (see below) useful on this topic. He is a=20
geographer at Queen's Belfast.


Lilley, Keith D. 2000. 'Non urbe, non vico, non castris': territorial=20
control and the colonization and urbanization of Wales and Ireland under=20
Anglo-Norman lordship. Journal of Historical Geography 26 (4):517-531.

Lilley, Keith D. 2002. Imagined geographies of the 'Celtic fringe' and the=
=20
cultural construction of the 'other' in medieval Wales and Ireland. In=20
Celtic geographies: old culture, new times, edited by D. C. Harvey, R.=20
Jones, N. McInroy and C. Milligan, 21-36. London: Routledge.

Johanne Devlin Trew, PhD
Research Fellow
Centre for Migration Studies / School of History
Queen's University Belfast
j.trew[at]qub.ac.uk

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Book Announced,
Remembering Michael Hartnett: a language seldom spoken
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Email Patrick O'Sullivan

The following book has been brought to our attention...

Material from the publisher's web site...

P.O'S.

Remembering Michael Hartnett: a language seldom spoken

STEPHEN NEWMAN & JOHN MCDONAGH, editors

Michael Hartnett is often acknowledged as one of the most under-rated =
yet
influential Irish poets of the last fifty years. This book gathers =
together
an impressive collection of poets, academics and cultural commentators =
in an
attempt to redress this lack of critical attention.

Contents

Seamus Heaney Foreword
Declan Kiberd Michael Hartnett: between two traditions
Eugene O'Brien Michael Hartnett and the embracing of English
Gabriel Rosenstock Hartnett's Tao
Gabriel Fitzmaurice Michael Hartnett and the sense of place
Louis de Paor Michael Hartnett, Irish language poet
R=F3is=EDn N=ED Ghairbhi Michael Hartnett: the Irish language and the =
Irish psyche
Stephen Newman Hartnett and Gaeldom
Rosaleen Liston Hartnett and Lorca
Eoin Flannery Landscape, language and cultural memory in the poetry of
Michael Hartnett
John McDonagh Michael Hartnett and 21st-century Irish poetry
An essay by Brendan Kennelly

Stephen Newman lectures in the department of Irish at Mary Immaculate
College, Limerick. John McDonagh lectures in the department of English =
at
Mary Immaculate College, Limerick

http://www.four-courts-press.ie/cgi/bookshow.cgi?file=3Dhartnett.xml

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From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: CELTIC Football Club and Sam Maguire Cup
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From: Joe Bradley
j.m.bradley[at]stir.ac

Thought this might interest diaspora members. There were some other
comments in a couple of other newspapers - regarding the Sam Maguire/IRA
Trophy story - but I only have the hard copies.

Joe Bradley


Copyright 2006 Associated Newspapers Ltd.
All Rights Reserved
Mail on Sunday (London)

January 15, 2006 Sunday

SECTION: HI 04; Pg. 32

LENGTH: 298 words

HEADLINE: Parading of 'IRA trophy' puts pressure on Celtic

BYLINE: PAUL DRURY

BODY:


CELTIC Football Club was yesterday facing fresh controversy over alleged
links between its fans and the IRA.

The club was recently forced to condemn sectarianism after two players
were filmed at a supporters' event in Ireland, during which chants of
'Sinn Fein' and 'IRA' could be heard.

Now the club itself is at the centre of the storm after agreeing to
allow a football trophy named after an IRA intelligence chief to be
paraded around Celtic Park despite the club's insistence that it
'condemns' support for paramilitary organisations.

All-Ireland champions Tyrone have been allowed to take The Sam Maguire
Cup on a lap of honour of the ground before the SPL match with Dundee
United on January 28.

Club captain Neil Lennon played Gaelic football for the Armagh team in
his youth.

However, Sam Maguire was head of IRA operations in London around the
time of the Easter Rising in 1916.

It has been suggested he ordered the IRA murder of Conservative MP Sir
Henry Wilson in June 1922.

Sir Henry was killed by two gunmen outside his Belgravia home only hours
after unveiling a war memorial in London.

Maguire is a revered figure in Republican circles, having sworn in
Michael Collins to the Irish Republican Brotherhood in 1909.

The disclosure will come as a major embarrassment for Celtic chief
executive Peter Lawwell, who outlined the club's stand on fans' support
for the IRA only last Wednesday.

He made the statement after players John Hartson and Stephen Pearson
were filmed at an event in Ireland, during which the chants were made.

Mr Lawwell said Celtic took an 'extremely serious view' of claims that
players were present at events where terror groups were supported. A
probe later confirmed neither man had taken part in the chants.

No one from the club was available for comment yesterday.

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Dear Dymphna,

There are a few Irish-related place names in Argentina and Uruguay, =
though no Irishtown (see www.irlandeses.org/toponomy.htm). James Fox =
(1819-1890), a landowner of Zarate in the province of Buenos Aires, =
donated land to found Nueva Irlanda, but the widow changed the name to =
Villa Fox (today a working-class neighbourhood of Zarate). The pattern =
was Irish or Irish-Argentine landowner who donated land to build a =
railway station, which was invariably named with their own names: =
Gaynor, Murphy, Gahan, Duggan, Maguire, etc. Where there was a high =
concentration of Irish rural settlers, there exist toponyms like Arroyo =
(stream) de los Ingleses or Camino (road) de los Ingleses. Also the =
settlers of the Irish Colony near Naposta, Bahia Blanca, wanted to =
change the name to Colonia Inglesa before they abandoned the colony =
(1890). There is also a Nueva Irlanda island in Patagonia or near the =
Falklands, but it seems to be one of the South Atlantic phanthom =
islands.

Edmundo Murray

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From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Taught MA in contemporary migration and diaspora studies in Cork
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From: MacEinri, Piaras
p.maceinri[at]ucc.ie=20
Sent: 26 January 2006 12:10
To: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Taught MA in contemporary migration and diaspora studies in =
Cork

Dear Paddy

Members of the IR-D list may be interested to know that UCC will launch, =
in
2006, a new taught MA programme in contemporary migration and diaspora
studies.=20

There are just two, excellent, existing programmes in Ireland in this =
field
- TCD's MPhil in Ethnic and Racial Studies, run by Ronit Lentin, and =
QUB's
MSSc in Migration Studies, run in conjunction with the Centre for =
Migration
Studies at the Ulster American Folk Park in Omagh (Drs Brian Lambkin and
Paddy Fitzgerald).=20

Our programme will not seek to replicate what is already being well done
elsewhere. It will be inter-disciplinary in focus, with five =
participating
academic departments (Applied Psychology, Applied Social Studies, =
Geography,
Law and Sociology). The programme will be based on three core modules,
focusing on (a) theories and models of migration and diaspora, (b)
qualitative, quantitative, archival and policy research methods and =
skills
(b) case studies on current issues, drawing in particular on Dr =
Caitr=EDona N=ED
Laoire's Marie Curie Excellence Programme on child and young migrants as
well as key current migration issues in Ireland and Europe today.=20

We also plan to offer elective modules on (a) historical perspectives =
(we
are delighted to be working with our colleagues in Omagh on this; the =
module
will include geographical and sociological topics from the respective =
UCC
departments), (b) asylum and immigration law in Ireland and (c) a =
placement
option in conjunction with Cork-based NGOs and statutory bodies working =
in
the field. =20

The programme is designed to have a broad appeal to students from a =
range of
academic backgrounds as well as those with an interest in what is =
becoming a
rapidly-growing and increasingly professionalised area of work.

Further details will be posted in the coming weeks.=20

Regards

Piaras Mac Einri

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From: Peter Hart
Subject: Re: Irishtown
Comments: To: Patrick O'Sullivan
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I was just reading Tom Dunne's work on the Battle of New Ross, in which its
Irishtown was a prominent feature.

I have a feeling I've mentioned this before, but Toronto had a post-famine
'Corktown' - a story about it appeared in the Toronto Star c. 1998, as
there was still a house standing from the period. I don't think the name
has survived.

I don't think St. John's, here in Newfoundland, had an Irishtown, although
John Fitzgerald may correct me. Unusual? There is a Monkstown,
Georgestown, Rabbittown, but I don't think any ethnic designations.
Perhaps a result of Irish Catholic settlers being in the majority?

It is indeed a very interesting topic.

Peter Hart

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From: Kerby Miller
MillerK[at]missouri.edu

Subject: Re: [IR-D] Naming patterns in the Irish diaspora

Because of e-mail problems, I'm joining this late.

Regarding name changes among immigrants (if that's the subject),
there's a collection of letters in the Natl. Library of Ireland
written by an immigrant named Patrick Monks. He was a lawyer or
legal clerk or other form of court official. Lived in Birmingham,
Alabama, in the very late 19th and early 20th century, when,
according to a recent article in HISTORY IRELAND, Alabama generally,
and Birmingham, in particular, were rampantly nativist,
anti-Catholic, and anti-Irish.

I had trouble tracking Birmingham down in Alabama/Birmingham records,
until I realized that he was listed in those records as FREDERICK
Monks. Although he signed his letters to Joseph Holloway, in Dublin,
as "Patrick," I can only presume that he changed his name to survive
or prosper in America.

It was difficult to sympathize with him, however, because his letters
reek with sanctimony and prudery, and he impressed me as a very
unpleasant bourgeois-Catholic character, typical of those who rioted
against Synge's plays (which he condemned in his letters).

In a dissertation, by Vincent Powers (1976), on the Irish in
Worcester, I found believable allegations that many immigrants had
radically anglicized their names in America, largely on the advice,
even insistence, of priests who, allegedly, refused to baptize Irish
children with "unpronounceable" Gaelic names.

Kerby




>From: Marion Casey [mailto:marion.casey[at]nyu.edu]
>Subject: Re: [IR-D] Naming patterns in the Irish diaspora in the 19th
>century
>
>Hello again, after a long absense from the list,
>
>I know of two late examples -- both from oral histories -- where the
>Irish woman herself changed her name from Bridget to avoid its negative
>connotations in the United States. One, a domestic servant, chose
>Bertha in 1923; the other, a highly educated legal secretary, became
>Iolanthe in the early 1930s. Yes, indeed, her Gilbert & Sullivan
>sobriquet helped overcome what she perceived was her only barrier to
>employment on Wall Street during the Depression!
>
>Marion R. Casey
>New York University

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From: Herson, John
J.D.Herson[at]ljmu.ac.ukSubject: RE: [IR-D] Irishtown

'Little Ireland' at Oxford Road is named as such on the 1848 1:1056 Ordnance
Survey map of central Manchester, so the name must have been well
established by the 1840s for the O.S. surveyors to acknowledge it.

John Herson


> -----Original Message-----

> From: Donald MacRaild [mailto:Donald.MacRaild[at]vuw.ac.nz]
> Subject: RE: [IR-D] Irishtown
>
> Irishtown in Manchester is written about by J.M. Werly in a
> piece in Irish
> Historical Studies, 1972-3. I can't recall whether the name was
> self-ascribed, but I doubt it because Werly (like E.P.
> Thompson, with whom
> he is disagreeing) leans heavily on the blue book social
> reportage of the
> day, which is almost always horribly judgemental and based on
> the views of
> contemporary petty office-holders (such as parish beadles), priests,
> journalists, reformers, etc. Among the most questioned of
> these people was
> Sir James Kay (later Kay-Shuttleworth) who was one of the
> first to mention
> Irishtown Manchester, which he did in 1832 at the time of the cholera
> outbreak. Manchester was seen as the ultimate laboratory for
> the social
> effects of industrialism and so the Irish in the town were extensively
> written. Manchester also had a 'Little Ireland', mentioned, I
> think, by
> Friedrich Engels. Others will know if he and Kay are
> referring to the same
> place near Oxford Rd in the heart of the city.
>
> Mervyn Busteed has since added greatly to our understanding of these
> cultural geographies in several important articles/chapters.
> Steve Fielding,
> Class and Ethnicity: Irish Catholics in England, looks at the
> Manchester
> scene in the later period and certainly mentions Angle
> Meadow, which I think
> was the site of Irish-town.
>
> This is certainly an interesting line of enquiry, Dymphna.
>
>
> Don MacRaild
> Wellington, NZ
>

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Maureen E Mulvihill
Subject: Submission for Posting: "US Irishtowns (Corktown, Detroit)"
Comments: To: Patrick O'Sullivan
Comments: cc: William Mulligan
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Subject: US Irishtowns (Corktown, Detroit)

In reply to Bill Mulligan's recent note & query re US "Corktown"(s) -

In the early 1900s, a strong Irish community flourished in downtown Detroit,
known as "Corktown," the hearty centre of which was Trinity Church (90th
Anniversary, 2nd Oct 2005; see
http://midwestdiocese.org/news/holy_trinity_church_detroit_to_celebrate_90th_anniversary_october_2nd?PHPSESSID=66339d39938a623c87008ede3cedaba2).

Some of my kin, now residing in suburban Detroit & members of the Ancient
Order of Hibernians, enjoy attending rather big & well-organized Irish
events in 'the old neighborhood', esp around St Pat's Day. While the
demographics (and sheer size) of this neighborhood have predictably changed
over the years (owing mostly to 'urban renewal'), the Irish faithful
continue to hold on & maintain traditions. A durable lot! As my father once
wrote me about Corktown, "The early Detroit Irish were a talented crowd.
They came to this country with a lot at their back -- a talented & capable
people. Politics and music -- that's what they did best. And most of them
could write & speak well."

My cousins, the Conways, emanated from that area, after their forebears left
ye olde sod; some Conways were employed at the much-storied Tiger Stadium,
in downtown Detroit (corner of Michigan & Trumbull Avenues), as recounted in
the best-ever book on the subject, "Queen of Diamonds: The Tiger Stadium
Story" by my cousin Michael Betzold, and Ethan Casey (W. Bloomfield,
Michigan: A&M Publishing Co., 1992; 325 pp., w/ archival photos).

In the spirit of those faithful Detroit Irish,

MEM

Maureen E. Mulvihill, PhD
Princeton Research Forum
Princeton, NJ.
Residence: Park Slope, Brooklyn, NY
mulvihill[at]nyc.rr.com

____

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Matthew Barlow
Subject: Re: Irishtown
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Further to Peter Hart's comments on the Canadian context, Toronto did and=
=20
still has a "Cabbagetown", so-named, so far as I know (and I stand to be=20
corrected) due to the concentration of Irish Catholics in the "Belfast of=
=20
Canada" in this neighbourhood and their tendency to eat boiled cabbage, a=
t=20
least according to the ethnic stereotyping of the day (though I have eate=
n=20
more than my fair share of the dish in my time). Cabbagetown was a worki=
ng=20
class quarter.

Montr=E9al, however, had a more bourgeois enclave known as "Little Dublin=
" in=20
the vicinity of St. Patrick's Basilica on top of Beaver Hall Hill towards=
=20
the eastern end of the downtown of the city. The Basilica is still there=
,=20
the neighbourhood is long gone, replaced in the early 20th century with=20
warehouses and the like. Today, Little Dublin is undergoing somewhat of=
a=20
revival, condos and the like, and the massive Palais de Congr=E8s is also=
at=20
the foot of this neighbourhood. I've not done any research into the nam=
e=20
of Little Dublin, other than concluding the obvious from the community=20
around the church in the mid-19th century, my interests lie in the workin=
g=20
class quarter of Griffintown along the Lachine Canal, but I've always bee=
n=20
curious as to who coined the Little Dublin name: the Irish themselves, or=
=20
the dominant Anglo-Protestant class, or the French Canadiens?

Cheers,
Matthew Barlow

PhD Candidate,
Department of History
Concordia University
Montr=E9al (QC)
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Peter Hart"
To:
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 10:51 AM
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Irishtown


>I was just reading Tom Dunne's work on the Battle of New Ross, in which =
its
> Irishtown was a prominent feature.
>
> I have a feeling I've mentioned this before, but Toronto had a post-fam=
ine
> 'Corktown' - a story about it appeared in the Toronto Star c. 1998, as
> there was still a house standing from the period. I don't think the na=
me
> has survived.
>
> I don't think St. John's, here in Newfoundland, had an Irishtown, altho=
ugh
> John Fitzgerald may correct me. Unusual? There is a Monkstown,
> Georgestown, Rabbittown, but I don't think any ethnic designations.
> Perhaps a result of Irish Catholic settlers being in the majority?
>
> It is indeed a very interesting topic.
>
> Peter Hart
>
>
> --=20
> No virus found in this incoming message.
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> 24/01/2006
>
>=20

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "William Mulligan Jr."
Subject: Re: Irishtown
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From: Morgan, John Matthew [mailto:jmorgan[at]umr.edu]=20
Subject: RE: [IR-D] Irishtown

I've been struck by the fact that Kearney Ave in Springfield, Missouri, =
like
the town of Kearney, Nebraska, is pronounced the Irish way, "Carney", =
not,
as you would expect Kearney to be pronounced in the US--first syllable
rhyming with "ear."

Jack Morgan


I am not sure if it is the reason, but there were Irish miners in the =
lead
mines there very early in the history of the region.=20

Bill Mulligan=20

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From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Irishtown
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From: Matthew L. Jockers
mjockers[at]stanford.edu
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Irishtown

How about "Irish World," the name of a famous Butte Montana Brothel?

Following up on Bill's note about Butte, MT. . .

Not only Dublin Gultch but I'd call your attention to Butte's "Skibereen" (a
location on the outskirts of the city) and the names of a number of the
mines include "The Parnell," "Hibernian," "Robert Emmett," and "Michael
Davitt."

Most interesting of all, however, is the name given to one of Butte's more
renowned "houses of prostitution." At the turn of the century Butte boasted
having the largest red light district in the world. "It is conservatively
estimated that during the period from 1904 to 1917 there were close to a
thousand girls quartered in the district at one time."

There was a wide range of "houses" and the cheaper ones were located in what
became know as "Four Bit Alley." The better houses were bedecked with
silken drapes, art treasures, and ornate furnishing. Each of these better
houses typically went by the name of its Madame; e.g Harpell's place, Mabel
Loy's etc. Mae Malloy, however, christened her most famous of brothels
"Irish World."

It's presence in Butte and the Irish immigrant landscape was significant
enough to warrant a reference in Clyde Murphy's 1944 novel _The Glittering
Hill_ where recent Irish immigrant Denny O'Shea asks his friend upon
arriving in the city:
"Guess what I'm lookin' for Tom."
"What"
"The Famous Irish World."

Not that I'm any sort of expert on these country matters. . .;-)

Matt

> From: William Mulligan JrSubject: RE: [IR-D] Irishtown
>
> Interesting query. What about "Corktown," as an informal designation for
a
> section of a city or county, " of which there are many or Butte's Dublin
> Gulch -- Butte was thoroughly Irish. There are lots of Irish place names
> associated, informally, with neighborhoods. It seems a leap without
> research to assume it was always derogatory. Then, there are the formal
> place names. What to make of them?
>
> Is Mervyn Busteed on the list? It would be good to hear from him on this.
>
> Bill
> William H. Mulligan, Jr., Ph.D.
> Professor of History
> Murray State University
> Murray KY 42071-3341 USA
>

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Maureen E Mulvihill
Subject: Lady Gregory Plays Baltimore,
February '06 (submission for posting, please)
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Posting on Behalf of Sam McCready,

with Apologies for Cross-Posting.

__________



Performance Workshop Theatre Presents

The Baltimore Premiere of

Coole Lady

written and directed by Sam McCready

with Joan McCready as Lady Gregory of Coole Park=20

February 3-26, 2006

_________

=20

Coole Lady has played to enthusiastic audiences in Ireland and the =
United States, and the script has been published by Lagan Press

For a detailed response to the play's New York production, see the =
multimedia review (text, image, sound) posted at =
www.yeatssociety.org/coole.html

Location: Performance Workshop Theatre, 28 E. Ostend Street, Baltimore =
Maryland 21230

Dates: February 3-5, 10-12, 17-19 and 24-26

Performances: Friday and Saturdays [at] 8pm. Sunday Matinees [at] 3:00pm

Tickets: $18 general admission. $15 seniors. $12 students

www.missiontix.com or call 410.659.7830

P.S. As the Performance Workshop Theatre is a smallish venue, patrons =
are advised to book in advance. We hope to see you there!

In the spirit, =20

Sam McCready

_____________.

=20

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From: Patrick O'Sullivan
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Subject: Irishtown
From: "Emmons, David M."

To all--assuming I can figure out how to send this to the whole list =
serve. Butte's Dublin Gulch, I've heard and believe, was named because =
the horse drawn beer wagons in that steepest of towns, had to be double =
hitched or they couldn't make it up the hill to the Irish parts of town =
near the Anaconda Road. Hence, "doublin'. I say I believe it because =
very few of Butte's early Irish were from anywhere near Dublin. There =
was a bar owner and poet who was called Dublin Dan but he came much =
later. Corktown, however, and Hungry Hill, two Irish "neighborhoods," =
were clearly named after West Cork and its copper mines near Hungry Hill =
and Alliehies.
=20
Regarding baptisms. There's a semi-famous Butte story of Seamus =
O'Moriarty who, in one of his frequent anti-clerical moods, named his =
son Cuchullain. Seamus's very devout wife, Catherine, brought the lad =
to St. Mary's where Limerick-born Fr. Michael Hannan yelled out from the =
font "And who might this St. Cuchullain be?" Whereupon Seamus shouted =
out from the back of the church "baptise the kid you bastard and be done =
with it." A fight threatened. Catherine, ever the mediator, stepped in =
and said her son also had a middle name: "Michael, after your grace," =
thereby giving Hannan a kind of battlefield promotion. The coda to the =
story is that Cu Moriarty became a priest in the San Francisco area--and =
a famous one. At his death, it took seven requiem masses to handle the =
crowds which included Cesar Chavez. Father Cu granted sanctuary to =
every Hispanic immigrant who asked, helped every member of the United =
Farm Workers who came to him, and generally behaved as priests are =
supposed to--and often do.
=20
The best account of naming, however, comes from The Sopranos. Notice =
how the young Italian girls are given "assimilated" names--Tony's =
daughter is Meadow, (though she has a very Italian middle name); her =
friend is Hunter, but her brother is Anthony Joseph Jr.. The =
semi-assimilated, non-mob related Italians carry names like Bruce and =
Jennifer, but Tony's wife is Carmela and all of the boys at Boda Bing =
have slightly Anglicized versions of sainted Italian names. The =
producer of the Sopranos, David Chase, was born Davide De Cesare. The =
important historical point is that the naming of children is a vitally =
important point of entry into the interior lives of immigrants and the =
generations of ethnic Americans who followed them. =20
Dave Emmons
University of Montana

________________________________

From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List on behalf of Stephen Brighton
Sent: Thu 1/26/2006 7:09 AM
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Irishtown

Hello All,

There a countless Irish town names throughout America, although many do
not contain the word "Irish" in them. Aside from Butte there are place
names such as the Kerrypatch in St. Louis, and the Irish section of
Paterson, New Jersey known as Dublin, as well as a town named Hibernia
also in New Jersey. Both places follow the Morris Canal (Irish labor)
that connected Pennsylvania to the ports of Newark, New Jersey. In New
England there is a Belfast, Maine and perhaps more interesting are two
towns one either side of industrial town Manchester, New Hampshire;
Derry and Londonderry.

It is a very interesting study and I look forward to hearing more about
this.

Stephen

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From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Irishtown
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From: Morgan, John Matthew [mailto:jmorgan[at]umr.edu]
Subject: RE: [IR-D] Irishtown


I've been struck by the fact that Kearney Ave in Springfield, Missouri,
like the town of Kearney, Nebraska, is pronounced the Irish way,
"Carney", not, as you would expect Kearney to be pronounced in the
US--first syllable rhyming with "ear."

Jack Morgan