Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Article, Ethnic succession and the new American restaurant cuisine
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Appetite
Volume 47, Issue 3 , November 2006, Page 398

Ethnic succession and the new American restaurant cuisine

Krishnendu Raya,

Department of Nutrition, Food Studies and Public Health, New York
University, New York, NY 10012, USA

Available online 24 October 2006.

Even a casual observer of the American food scene will notice that there are
certain niches-such as diners and Chinese take-outs-where particular
ethnicities dominate. If the observer has some familiarity with restaurant
history, he would also know that there is a pattern of ethnic succession
over time. Food-work that used to be done by German and Irish immigrants in
the mid-19th century, was performed by Italians and eastern Europeans at the
end of the century, who in turn were replaced by Greeks, and then by Asians
and Latinos at the end of the 20th century. Tastes have changed too. French
cuisine has given way to Italian cuisine, which was accented by Asian and
Latino ingredients by the end of the 20th century. There is a two-fold
ethnic succession here: one in the ethnicity of the labor force; and the
other in the sphere of food served. The two are shaped by each other in
counter-intuitive ways. Data from Zagat restaurant surveys, the Operations
Report of the National Restaurant Association and the curriculum of the
Culinary Institute of America illuminate the process of ethnic succession in
American fine-dining restaurants and the changing hierarchies of taste.

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Subject: Article, Political Toasting in Eighteenth-Century Ireland
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Political Toasting in Eighteenth-Century Ireland

Author: POWELL, MARTYN J.1

Source: History, Volume 91, Number 304, October 2006, pp. 508-529(22)

Publisher: Blackwell Publishing


Abstract:

Within clubs and societies, and at dinners and taverns all over Ireland, the
toast was often the central part of the evening's entertainment. Its
importance lies in the symbolism inherent in eighteenth-century alcohol
consumption. In Ireland, as in England and America, the toast frequently had
political implications, and therefore as a ritualistic form of consumption
it deserves close study. This article explores the importance of the toast
in eighteenth-century Irish political life, looking at shifts in the nature
and emphasis of toasting, strains of political thought contained within
toasts, and the role of the toast in the formation of varieties of
Protestant patriotic identity. It is argued that the toast had a complex
impact upon those present, creating an additional degree of unity and
resolve, a collective bonhomie, and an awareness of a shared past and a
common set of goals in the present. Toasts, however, also had an impact upon
the wider political community through publication in newspapers, supplied
either by those present or the organizers of the meeting or the dinner.
These toasts were avidly `consumed' and then reused by a patriotic
population. Thus, toasting moved from private to public and became a
convenient means of broadcasting a strongly held political belief, and of
encouraging support amongst the watching, and indeed reading, populace.

Document Type: Research article

DOI: 10.1111/j.1468-229X.2006.00376.x

Affiliations: 1: University of Wales, Aberystwyth

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Subject: TOC Identities, Special Issue Global Spaces/Local Places
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I think I see one passing reference to the Irish in this Special Issue.

But we should be aware of debates and discourses...

P.O'S.

Identities: Global Studies in Culture and Power
Publisher: Routledge, part of the Taylor & Francis Group
Issue: Volume 13, Number 3 / July-September 2006

Special Issue: Global Spaces/Local Places: Transnationalism, Diaspora, and
the Meaning of Home

INTRODUCTION: GLOBAL SPACES/LOCAL PLACES: TRANSNATIONALISM, DIASPORA, AND
THE MEANING OF HOME pp. 327 - 334
Caroline B. Brettell

"MY HEART IS ALWAYS THERE": THE TRANSNATIONAL PRACTICES OF FIRST-GENERATION
MEXICAN IMMIGRANT AND SECOND-GENERATION MEXICAN AMERICAN WOMEN pp. 335 -
362
Edna A. Viruell-Fuentes

GROWING UP ETHNIC IN TRANSNATIONAL WORLDS: IDENTITIES AMONG
SECOND-GENERATION CHINESE AND DOMINICANS pp. 363 - 394
Vivian Louie

TO BE "EMPLACED": FUZHOUNESE MIGRATION AND THE POLITICS OF DESTINATION pp.
395 - 425
Julie Y. Chu

BEYOND HOME/HOST NETWORKS: FORMS OF SOLIDARITY AMONG LEBANESE IMMIGRANTS IN
A GLOBAL ERA pp. 427 - 453
Dalia Abdelhady

BECOMING "JAPANESE" IN BOLIVIA: OKINAWAN-BOLIVIAN TRANS(NATIONAL)FORMATIONS
IN COLONIA OKINAWA1 pp. 455 - 481
Taku Suzuki

TRANCE-NATIONALISM: RELIGIOUS IMAGINARIES OF BELONGING IN THE BLACK ATLANTIC
pp. 483 - 502
Kenneth Routon

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From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Web resource, Amateur Athletic Foundation of Los Angeles
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This may seem an odd one to list, but IR-D members interested in questions
around sport and identity will find much of use at...

http://www.aafla.org/index.html

Amateur Athletic Foundation
'serving youth through sport and increasing public understanding of the role
of sports in society...'

It is a legacy organisation of the 1984 Olympic Games.

But what is useful is that - clicking through DIGITAL ARCHIVE on the left -
a lot of effort has gone into providing some full text resources.

Try going on to the Search page
http://www.aafla.org:8080/verity_templates/jsp/newsearch/search.jsp

and entering Irish.

Over 1000 hits, including full text of works by Mike Cronin, Joe Bradley...

A real find is
Irish Cricket and Nationalism.
Richard Davis, Sporting Traditions, May, 1994, Vol. 10, No. 2, p. 77-96.

P.O'S.

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Subject: CFP SOFEIR PARIS 16-17 March 2006, Ireland : Going East
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Subject: CFP PARIS 16-17 March 2006 Ireland : Going East

SOFEIR 2007 CALL FOR PAPERS
=93Ireland: Going East=94

16-17 March 2007
Institut du Monde Anglophone
Sorbonne Nouvelle-Paris 3
5, rue de l=92Ecole de M=E9decine
75006 Paris

The Groupe de Recherche en Etudes Irlandaises de l=92Universit=E9 =
Sorbonne
Nouvelle-Paris 3, will host the annual conference of the SOFEIR =
(Soci=E9t=E9
Fran=E7aise d=92Etudes Irlandaises) on 16th and 17th March 2007. The =20
theme of the conference will be: =93Ireland: Going East=94.=20


Proposals for papers (250 words max.) should be sent to Wesley =
Hutchinson
and Carle Bonafous-Murat, before 30th November 2006. Contact:
sofeir2007[at]yahoo.fr

Throughout history, =93the West=94 has played a rich and varied role in =
the
development of the Irish imagination and Irish identity. This
multidisciplinary conference (literature, history, politics, visual =20
arts, translation, etc.) will look at an alternative to this obsessive =20
focus on =93The West=94 and explore Ireland=92s less well-known, but =
equally rich
relationship with =93The East=94.
Rather than taking into account Ireland=92s links with her immediate
neighbours to the East, the island of Great Britain, or even France, the
conference wants to look beyond to the continent of Europe, more
particularly to the influence of the countries of central and Eastern
Europe.
Twentieth-century Ireland saw a particularly intense and ambiguous
relationship with the region. In the early years of the century, some in
Ireland looked to Central and Eastern Europe as a possible model for the
resolution of constitutional and ethnic problems. Today, things are even
more complex: some now see the countries of the region as a threat to
Ireland=92s own long-term economic success; at the same time, Ireland =20
has been
one of the few countries to open her workplace to people from the =
=93New=94
Europe.
Possible topics include:
- political paradigms such as Griffith=92s =93Austro-Hungarian =20
model=94
- the drawing of borders along ethnic lines in the aftermath =20
of the
First World War
- divided cities : Belfast, Berlin, Jerusalem
- connections between Irish poets and their Eastern European
counterparts (Heaney, Paulin, Mandelstam, Brodsky, Milosz, etc.)
- translations of Russian plays by Irish playwrights (Chekhov =20
and
Friel, etc.)
- the fraught debate on the Treaty of Nice
- the arrival of considerable numbers of East Europeans North =20
and
South of the border
- the recent debate within the Irish workplace on such issues =20
as the
need to redefine workers=92 rights (cf. Irish Ferries)
- etc.

Looking to countries further afield, especially in the Middle and Far =20
East,
it would be of interest to look at mutual influences in areas such as:
- Irish and Indian nationalisms
- the role of Irish missionaries, soldiers and administrators =20
in the
Indian subcontinent
- Ireland=92s United Nations involvement in the Middle East
- the impact of eastern religions on Ireland
- Indian or Japanese literatures as offering alternative =20
traditions
to American or British influences
- the East as metaphor or allegory of the Irish (cf. Swift=92s =
An
Account of the Court and Empire of Japan)
- the East as both utopia and fantasy in Irish literature =20
(Joyce)
- orientalism as a projection of the relationship between =20
colonised
and coloniser
- the simultaneous rise of nationalism in Ireland and in the =20
East
(cf. Turkey, Egypt) and the possible impact on visual representations =20
of the
nation
- trade links with China
- etc.


SOFEIR 2007 : APPEL A COMMUNICATIONS
=AB A l=92est de l=92Irlande =BB

16-17 mars 2007
Institut du Monde Anglophone
Sorbonne Nouvelle-Paris 3
5, rue de l=92Ecole de M=E9decine
75006 Paris

Le Groupe de Recherche en Etudes Irlandaises de l=92Universit=E9 =
Sorbonne
Nouvelle-Paris 3, lance un appel =E0 communications pour le congr=E8s =20
annuel de
la SOFEIR (Soci=E9t=E9 Fran=E7aise d=92Etudes Irlandaises), qui se =
tiendra =E0
l=92Institut du Monde anglophone, Universit=E9 Sorbonne Nouvelle-Paris =
3, =20
les 16
et 17 mars 2007, et qui aura pour th=E8me : =AB A l=92est de =
l=92Irlande =BB. Les
propositions de communications (250 mots max.) doivent =EAtre envoy=E9es =
=20
avant
le 30 novembre 2006 =E0 Wesley Hutchinson et Carle Bonafous-Murat =E0 =20
l=92adresse
suivante : sofeir2007[at]yahoo.fr


Tout au long de l=92histoire, =AB l=92ouest =BB a jou=E9 un r=F4le non =20
n=E9gligeable dans
le d=E9veloppement de l=92imaginaire et de l=92identit=E9 irlandais. Ce =
colloque
pluridisciplinaire (litt=E9rature, histoire, politique, image, =
traduction,
etc.) s=92int=E9ressera au contraire =E0 la relation, certes moins =
connue =20
mais non
moins f=E9conde, de l=92Irlande avec =AB l=92est =BB qui offre un =
contrepoint au
tropisme irlandais vers =AB l=92ouest =BB.
Plut=F4t que de se pencher sur les liens de l=92Irlande avec ses voisins =
les
plus proches, Grande-Bretagne et France, les travaux porteront en =20
priorit=E9
sur des zones plus =E9loign=E9es, et notamment sur l=92Europe centrale =
et
orientale.
Au cours du XXe si=E8cle, les relations entre l=92Irlande et cette =
partie du
monde ont =E9t=E9 particuli=E8rement mouvement=E9es et ambigu=EBs. Dans =
les ann=E9es
1900-1920, l=92Irlande consid=E9rait l=92Europe centrale et orientale =
comme un
mod=E8le =E9ventuel de r=E9solution des conflits constitutionnels et =20
ethniques. De
nos jours, sa perception est encore plus complexe : certains =20
consid=E8rent que
les pays de l=92Europe de l=92Est constituent une menace pour la =
r=E9ussite
=E9conomique irlandaise ; en revanche, l=92Irlande est un des rares pays =
=20
=E0 avoir
ouvert ses fronti=E8res aux ressortissants de la =AB nouvelle =BB =
Europe.
Les communications pourront porter sur les sujets suivants :
- les mod=E8les politiques comme le =93mod=E8le austro-hongrois =
=BB de
Griffith
- la d=E9limitation des fronti=E8res =E0 partir de crit=E8res =20
ethniques au
lendemain de la Premi=E8re Guerre mondiale
- des villes divis=E9es =96 Belfast, Berlin, J=E9rusalem=85
- les liens unissant les po=E8tes irlandais et leurs homologues =
de
l=92Europe de l=92Est (Heaney, Paulin, Mandelstam, Brodsky, Milosz, =
etc.)
- les traductions de pi=E8ces russes par des dramaturges =
irlandais
(Tch=E9khov et Friel, etc.)
- les tensions provoqu=E9es par le Trait=E9 de Nice
- l=92immigration massive d=92Europ=E9ens de l=92Est de part et =

d=92autre de
la fronti=E8re
- les d=E9bats r=E9cents sur la n=E9cessit=E9 de red=E9finir les =
droits =20
des
travailleurs (cf. Irish Ferries)
- etc.

On pourra =E9galement s=92int=E9resser aux liens de l=92Irlande avec =
certains =20
pays
du Proche-, du Moyen- et de l=92Extr=EAme-Orient. Dans ce domaine, les
communications pourront porter sur les sujets suivants :
- nationalismes irlandais et indien
- la perception du ph=E9nom=E8ne nationaliste =E0 travers les
repr=E9sentations iconographiques en Irlande, en Turquie, en Egypte, =
etc.
- le r=F4le des missionnaires, soldats et fonctionnaires =
irlandais
dans le sous-continent indien
- la participation irlandaise au Moyen-Orient dans le cadre =20
de l=92ONU
- la place en Irlande des religions orientales
- l=92est comme m=E9taphore ou all=E9gorie des Irlandais (cf. =20
Swift=92s An
Account of the Court and Empire of Japan)
- la litt=E9rature indienne ou japonaise comme contrepoids =E0 =
la
tradition litt=E9raire anglo-am=E9ricaine
- l=92est comme utopie et fantasme dans la litt=E9rature =
irlandaise
(Joyce)
- l=92orientalisme comme projection des relations entre =20
colonis=E9 et
colonisateur
- les liens commerciaux entre l=92Irlande et la Chine
- etc.

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Book review, Lewis, Carson: The Man Who Divided Ireland
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The latest issue of Cercles (No. 16) has just been put on line...

http://www.cercles.com/somma.htm

It includes a review of

Carson: The Man Who Divided Ireland
Geoffrey Lewis

London: Hambledon and London, 2005
=A319.99 , ix + 277 pages, ISBN 1-85285-454-5 (hardback)

Reviewed by Kevin Matthews

http://www.cercles.com/review/r28/lewis.html

P.O'S.

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From: ianwelch[at]COOMBS.ANU.EDU.AU
Subject: Irish first name "inie"
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Can anyone help me with an Irish personal name. The four Newcombe sisters
from
Ireland were Protestant missionaries in late 19C China. Apart from
welcoming any comment from anyone who may have come across the family (I
think they
were Baptists - a branch in NZ seem to have been - but worked with the
Anglicans in China) I would like to know if the name 'Inie" is a
diminutive. Inie is given as the name of the oldest daughter and it has
been suggested that this was a common practice in Ireland. It has also
been suggested that it is a dimunutive for Inez. Just for the record,
Hessie, A Maude and Benjamina E were the other sisters. Hessie was
murdered in the Huashan/Kucheng massacre of 1 Aug 1895.

All suggestions will be gratefully acknowledged.

Ian Welch
ANU, Canberra


--

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Re: tracking a WBY quote
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The reference I have for this is...

W. B. YEATS: MEMOIRS. Autobiography - First Draft. Journal. Transcribed and
edited by Denis Donoghue. Macmillan. 1972. p.171

But this is from a note made long ago, and I do not have a copy of the book
to hand.

Perhaps someone could check p. 171.

Paddy

-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf
Of Rogers, James
Sent: 01 November 2006 21:56
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: [IR-D] tracking a WBY quote

Another handed-off question from a caller who presumes my omniscience-- not
realizing, of course, that it's really the list that is all-knowing ....

Did Yeats really write "I have certainly known more men destroyed by the
desire to have a wife and child and to keep them in comfort than I have seen
destroyed by drink and harlots"?

And if so, where?

Jim Rogers

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Web Resource, House of Commons Parliamentary Papers 1800-1901
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Email Patrick O'Sullivan

I was labouring over the damned microfiches in the University of Leeds
Brotherton Library today - when the library's specialist told me of this
initiative...

The House of Commons Parliamentary Papers 1800=961901 have become a web
resource. Through the UK institutions, and through ProQuest Information =
and
Learning. At the moment I do not quite know how it will work.

But, an extraordinary resource...

I don't know how this affects scholars and institutions outside the UK, =
but
ProQuest Information and Learning has an international presence.

P.O'S.

Press Release
http://www.jisc.ac.uk/news/stories/2006/10/news_hcpp.aspx


A century of parliament online: new resource available

Massive record of the nineteenth century made available free to FE and =
HE
institutions in the UK=20

October 27 2006. A new online resource which is vital to an =
understanding of
the UK and its history has been made available free of charge to further =
and
higher education institutions in the UK. An agreement between JISC and
ProQuest Information and Learning, announced today, makes the House of
Commons Parliamentary Papers 1800 =96 1901, comprising nearly 6,000 =
volumes
and over 4 million pages, available in perpetuity to those communities.

The abolition of the slave trade, the growth of the railways, massive
economic and industrial growth, voting reform, and war and conquest =
abroad
are just some of the themes that defined the nineteenth century and are
reflected in the online resource. Containing nineteenth-century Bills, =
House
papers, Command papers, treaties, statistical data including census =
data,
committee reports and much more, the resource encompasses all areas of
social, political, economic and foreign policy, showing how issues were
explored and legislation formed.=20

Many contributors to the papers were found outside the official world,
providing evidence or supplying memoranda to committees and commissions,
among them Matthew Arnold, John Stuart Mill, Michael Faraday, Charles
Babbage, Guglielmo Marconi, John Maynard Keynes and Sir William =
Beveridge,
alongside thousands of others. =20

The resource would, without the JISC agreement, cost institutions around
=A335,000 each and enthusiasm expressed by academics and researchers =
around
the country during the consultation for the agreement was unprecedented. =


One of those who responded to the consultation was Colin Brooks, =
Director of
the HE Academy Subject Centre for History, Classics and Archaeology at =
the
University of Glasgow, who said: =91This resource will transform student
understanding of the legislative process and will also incidentally =
improve
understanding of our contemporary political system. Offering students =
such
easy access to a wealth of new perspectives is an excellent step =
forward.
The type of availability that the JISC agreement has made possible will =
I
think transform use, quantitatively and qualitatively.=92

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "James A. Lundon [at] Home"
Subject: Re: Irish first name "inie"
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All,

It could as easily be a variant of Imy, who was the saintly
sister of the well-known late-5th century St. Senan, from down
in deepest West Clare.

James.

-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK]On
Behalf Of Dymphna Lonergan
Sent: 02 November 2006 22:42
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Irish first name "inie"


It sounds like the Irish word for 'daughter': inion. I would be intereste=
d
if that were the case.





At 14:20 02/11/06 +1100, you wrote:
>Can anyone help me with an Irish personal name. The four Newcombe sister=
s
>from
>Ireland were Protestant missionaries in late 19C China. Apart from
>welcoming any comment from anyone who may have come across the family (I
>think they
>were Baptists - a branch in NZ seem to have been - but worked with the
>Anglicans in China) I would like to know if the name 'Inie" is a
>diminutive. Inie is given as the name of the oldest daughter and it has
>been suggested that this was a common practice in Ireland. It has also
>been suggested that it is a dimunutive for Inez. Just for the record,
>Hessie, A Maude and Benjamina E were the other sisters. Hessie was
>murdered in the Huashan/Kucheng massacre of 1 Aug 1895.
>
>All suggestions will be gratefully acknowledged.
>
>Ian Welch
>ANU, Canberra
>
>
>--


le gach dea ghu=ED
Dymphna


Dr Dymphna Lonergan

Topic Convener: Professional English (ENGL1001), Professional English for
Teachers (ENGL1013), Professional English for Medical Scientists (1012),
Professional Writing (PROF2101)
Director of Studies Professional Studies Minor
Room 282, Humanities, Flinders University
(08) 8201 2079

1966-2006
Flinders 40th Anniversary

Research interests: Business English, Plain English, Australian English,
Hiberno English, Irish language words in English, Anglo-Irish literature,
Irish Australian literature

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Carmel McCaffrey
Subject: The wearin' of the ...Poppy?
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I spotted Willie Walsh - probably one of the most "successful"
businessmen of the diaspora - on BBC this morning wearing a poppy.
Question - how much pressure is there on the Irish in Britain to conform
to this historical perspective? Would the wearing of the tradition
rival symbol - the Easter lily - be an absolute anathema? I'm not
trying to stir the pot here but I think it does seem to speak about
the need to conform to a particular perspective or at least to be seen
to confirm its legitimacy. Why would someone like Walsh not just
ignore the whole thorny issue of history and stick to business?

Carmel


>

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Dymphna Lonergan
Subject: Re: Irish first name "inie"
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It sounds like the Irish word for 'daughter': inion. I would be interested=
=20
if that were the case.





At 14:20 02/11/06 +1100, you wrote:
>Can anyone help me with an Irish personal name. The four Newcombe sisters
>from
>Ireland were Protestant missionaries in late 19C China. Apart from
>welcoming any comment from anyone who may have come across the family (I
>think they
>were Baptists - a branch in NZ seem to have been - but worked with the
>Anglicans in China) I would like to know if the name 'Inie" is a
>diminutive. Inie is given as the name of the oldest daughter and it has
>been suggested that this was a common practice in Ireland. It has also
>been suggested that it is a dimunutive for Inez. Just for the record,
>Hessie, A Maude and Benjamina E were the other sisters. Hessie was
>murdered in the Huashan/Kucheng massacre of 1 Aug 1895.
>
>All suggestions will be gratefully acknowledged.
>
>Ian Welch
>ANU, Canberra
>
>
>--


le gach dea ghu=ED
Dymphna


Dr Dymphna Lonergan

Topic Convener: Professional English (ENGL1001), Professional English for=20
Teachers (ENGL1013), Professional English for Medical Scientists (1012),=20
Professional Writing (PROF2101)
Director of Studies Professional Studies Minor
Room 282, Humanities, Flinders University
(08) 8201 2079

1966-2006
Flinders 40th Anniversary

Research interests: Business English, Plain English, Australian English,=20
Hiberno English, Irish language words in English, Anglo-Irish literature,=20
Irish Australian literature

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Carmel McCaffrey
Subject: Re: The wearin'...of the poppy
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I am now even more shocked to learn that this is a BBC policy to "offer"
a guest to wear one. I can see the dilemma it puts the non-English in.
Are you going to conform or not - we are outrightly asking you? A guest
may have the right to say no but that is the point. It forces the
decision on the guest. Shame on the BBC for this us all I can say.

Carmel

Patrick O'Sullivan wrote:
> From: James O'Keeffe [mailto:j.okeeffe[at]londonmet.ac.uk]
> Sent: 03 November 2006 14:26
> Subject: The wearin'...of the poppy
>
>
> Carmel
>
> It seems that anyone appearing on a news programme on the BBC wears a
> poppy. The pressure to wear one seems to be applied by the BBC to a wide
> variety of people, e.g.Muslim authors. The real dilemma for Willie could
> have been no poppy, no appearance. There is tremendous pressure on
> non-English people to conform to their established norms but it is
> usually covert and unspoken rather than explicit.
>
> Regards
>
> Jim
>
> Carmel McCaffrey wrote:
>
> > I spotted Willie Walsh - probably one of the most "successful"
> businessmen of the diaspora - on BBC this morning wearing a poppy.
> Question - how much pressure is there on the Irish in Britain to conform
> to this historical perspective? Would the wearing of the tradition
> rival symbol - the Easter lily - be an absolute anathema? I'm not
> trying to stir the pot here but I think it does seem to speak about
> the need to conform to a particular perspective or at least to be seen
> to confirm its legitimacy. Why would someone like Walsh not just
> ignore the whole thorny issue of history and stick to business?
> > Carmel
>
> .
>
>

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Peter Hart
Subject: Re: The wearin' of the ...Poppy?
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Context is everything here, not coercion. Wearing a poppy doesn't mean
the same thing in Northern Ireland, the Republic and the UK. As in Canada, in
the UK it is really nonpartisan and near-universal at least in the sense
that almost anyone might wear one uncontroversially.

Nor does this seem like the equivalent to Lily-wearing, which has a very
different status and politics surely, even down in the Free State.

I doubt people in the BBC, or on the average high street, would know what
it meant anyway. People wear so many different kinds and colours of
ribbons and emblems for diseases and causes, who can keep up?

Peter Hart


On Fri, 3 Nov 2006, Carmel McCaffrey wrote:

> I spotted Willie Walsh - probably one of the most "successful"
> businessmen of the diaspora - on BBC this morning wearing a poppy.
> Question - how much pressure is there on the Irish in Britain to conform
> to this historical perspective? Would the wearing of the tradition
> rival symbol - the Easter lily - be an absolute anathema? I'm not
> trying to stir the pot here but I think it does seem to speak about
> the need to conform to a particular perspective or at least to be seen
> to confirm its legitimacy. Why would someone like Walsh not just
> ignore the whole thorny issue of history and stick to business?
>
> Carmel
>
>
> >
>

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "Thomas J. Archdeacon"
Organization: History, U. Wisconsin -- Madison
Subject: Re: Poppy Row
In-Reply-To:
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The wearing of poppies is not widespread in the U.S., but the Veterans of
Foreign Wars (VFW) offer paper ones for sale around Memorial Day, which
occurs on May 30(or the last Monday in May in recent years). The symbol has
its root in WWI, but Memorial Day began as a day to remember those who died
in the Union Army. In the late nineteenth century, it expanded to be a
memorial to all soldiers who died in the American Civil War. With time, it
has become a general memorial for those who died in service. It is a more
important holiday in the U.S. than is Veterans' Day, which specifically
commemorates the end of WWI.

Here is what the VFW says about its use of poppies:

"Among all the flowers that evoke the memories and emotions of war is the
red poppy, which became associated with war after the publication of a poem
written by Col. John McCrae of Canada. The poem, "In Flanders's Field,"
describes blowing red fields among the battleground of the fallen.

"For more than 75 years, the VFW's Buddy Poppy program has raised millions
of dollars in support of veterans' welfare and the well being of their
dependents.

"The VFW conducted its first poppy distribution before Memorial Day in 1922,
becoming the first veterans' organization to organize a nationwide
distribution. The poppy soon was adopted as the official memorial flower of
the Veterans of Foreign Wars of the United States.

"It was during the 1923 encampment that the VFW decided that VFW Buddy
Poppies be assembled by disabled and needy veterans who would be paid for
their work to provide them with some form of financial assistance. The plan
was formally adopted during the VFW's 1923 encampment. The next year,
disabled veterans at the Buddy Poppy factory in Pittsburgh assembled VFW
Buddy Poppies. The designation "Buddy Poppy" was adopted at that time.

"In February 1924, the VFW registered the name "Buddy Poppy" with the U.S.
Patent Office. A certificate was issued on May 20, 1924, granting the VFW
all trademark rights in the name of Buddy under the classification of
artificial flowers. The VFW has made that trademark a guarantee that all
poppies bearing that name and the VFW label are genuine products of the work
of disabled and needy veterans. No other organization, firm or individual
can legally use the name "Buddy" Poppy.

"Today, VFW Buddy Poppies are still assembled by disabled and needy veterans
in VA Hospitals.

"The minimal assessment (cost of Buddy Poppies) to VFW units provides
compensation to the veterans who assemble the poppies, provides financial
assistance in maintaining state and national veterans' rehabilitation and
service programs and partially supports the VFW National Home for orphans
and widows of our nation's veterans."

[VA stands for Veterans' Administration, the federal agency charged with the
responsibility of caring for American veterans].

It's interesting to learn of the more contentious place of the poppy in
British-Irish relations. How would Irish who served in the British military
in WWI or WWII feel about the poppy, or can the Catholics as well as the
Protestants among them be written out of the race? To the best of my
knowledge, the many Irish who served in the US military in those conflicts
have no objection to the poppy, at least in the American context.

Tom



-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf
Of Carmel McCaffrey
Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 10:52 AM
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Poppy Row

I am at a loss here to know then why I saw Willie Walsh on BBC World
here in the US wearing a poppy if the BBC prevented others from wearing
it? Was it because his interview was done originally for BBC home?
Anyway the point I was making was not that the English ought not to be
able to wear what they want - of course they should. No problem. But why
are the people at BBC myopic on this? As Oscar Wilde once pointed out
self centredness is not living as one wants to but expecting others to
live that way also.

As regards the innocuous symbolism of it - I can speak directly to the
point that as late as the 1970s in Dublin in certain British owned
companies wearing a Poppy on Nov 11th was a sure way of getting
promotion. A few Irish would covertly wear one at work and immediately
remove it to go home!

The point I was originally making was why was an native born Irishman
wearing one? The answer was that the BBC asked him if he wanted to wear
one. I agree with Jim that it sounds like a bit of coercion to me and
if it symbolizes nothing in England but a gift to charity then why on
earth is the BBC asking its guests to wear one? How many other
charities get the same treatment?

Carmel

>
> THE BBC was accused of "insane" political correctness yesterday after it
> admitted that presenters on its international television news channel were
> banned from wearing Remembrance Day poppies.
>
> .
>
>

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Carmel McCaffrey
Subject: Re: Poppy Row
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I am at a loss here to know then why I saw Willie Walsh on BBC World
here in the US wearing a poppy if the BBC prevented others from wearing
it? Was it because his interview was done originally for BBC home?
Anyway the point I was making was not that the English ought not to be
able to wear what they want - of course they should. No problem. But why
are the people at BBC myopic on this? As Oscar Wilde once pointed out
self centredness is not living as one wants to but expecting others to
live that way also.

As regards the innocuous symbolism of it - I can speak directly to the
point that as late as the 1970s in Dublin in certain British owned
companies wearing a Poppy on Nov 11th was a sure way of getting
promotion. A few Irish would covertly wear one at work and immediately
remove it to go home!

The point I was originally making was why was an native born Irishman
wearing one? The answer was that the BBC asked him if he wanted to wear
one. I agree with Jim that it sounds like a bit of coercion to me and
if it symbolizes nothing in England but a gift to charity then why on
earth is the BBC asking its guests to wear one? How many other
charities get the same treatment?

Carmel

>
> THE BBC was accused of "insane" political correctness yesterday after it
> admitted that presenters on its international television news channel were
> banned from wearing Remembrance Day poppies.
>
> .
>
>

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "Anthony McNicholas."
Subject: Re: The wearin' of the ...Poppy?
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All guests who appear on the BBC at this time of year are offered a poppy to
wear. If they don't wish to, they don't have to. don't know about lillies but
my guess is if a guest wore one, it would be ok.
anthony
Dr. Anthony McNicholas
Communication and Media Research Institute
University of Westminster
0118 948 6164 (BBC Written Archive Centre)
07751 062 735 (m)
020 8995 6625 (h)


Quoting Carmel McCaffrey :

> I spotted Willie Walsh - probably one of the most "successful"
> businessmen of the diaspora - on BBC this morning wearing a poppy.
> Question - how much pressure is there on the Irish in Britain to conform
> to this historical perspective? Would the wearing of the tradition
> rival symbol - the Easter lily - be an absolute anathema? I'm not
> trying to stir the pot here but I think it does seem to speak about
> the need to conform to a particular perspective or at least to be seen
> to confirm its legitimacy. Why would someone like Walsh not just
> ignore the whole thorny issue of history and stick to business?
>
> Carmel
>
>
> >
>

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: The wearin'...of the poppy
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From: James O'Keeffe [mailto:j.okeeffe[at]londonmet.ac.uk]
Sent: 03 November 2006 14:26
Subject: The wearin'...of the poppy


Carmel

It seems that anyone appearing on a news programme on the BBC wears a
poppy. The pressure to wear one seems to be applied by the BBC to a wide
variety of people, e.g.Muslim authors. The real dilemma for Willie could
have been no poppy, no appearance. There is tremendous pressure on
non-English people to conform to their established norms but it is
usually covert and unspoken rather than explicit.

Regards

Jim

Carmel McCaffrey wrote:

> I spotted Willie Walsh - probably one of the most "successful"
businessmen of the diaspora - on BBC this morning wearing a poppy.
Question - how much pressure is there on the Irish in Britain to conform
to this historical perspective? Would the wearing of the tradition
rival symbol - the Easter lily - be an absolute anathema? I'm not
trying to stir the pot here but I think it does seem to speak about
the need to conform to a particular perspective or at least to be seen
to confirm its legitimacy. Why would someone like Walsh not just
ignore the whole thorny issue of history and stick to business?
> Carmel

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Maureen E Mulvihill
Subject: Web Sources: Royal Historical Society Bibliography,
Irish History Online AND London's Past Online
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Splendid information, Patrick! Thanks, indeed.

Best wishes,

MEM
_____

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Steven Mccabe
Subject: Re: The wearin'...of the poppy
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Interestingly, I did someone wearing a lily this morning. I admit to
being a bit perplexed as I associate this with republicanism and the
Easter rising of 1916 and, therefore anti-British imperialism. However,
if it is meant to be perceived as a statement of wishing to sympathise
with all victims of war then I believe that is fine. I believe that it
is possible to buy white poppies, the proceeds of which are to be used
to encourage peace.

Ultimately, the original point by Carmel was how should those who view
themselves as being Irish can be seen to empathise with the 'host
country' (Muslims having current difficulties on this), whilst at the
same time not being seen to accept subjugation.=20

Steven

Dr. Steven McCabe=20
Senior Lecturer (and UCE UCU Chair)
Faculty of Law, Humanities, Development and Society
University of Central England in Birmingham
B42 2SU

-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
Behalf Of Carmel McCaffrey
Sent: 03 November 2006 15:04
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] The wearin'...of the poppy

I am now even more shocked to learn that this is a BBC policy to "offer"

a guest to wear one. I can see the dilemma it puts the non-English in.

Are you going to conform or not - we are outrightly asking you? A guest

may have the right to say no but that is the point. It forces the=20
decision on the guest. Shame on the BBC for this us all I can say.=20

Carmel

Patrick O'Sullivan wrote:
> From: James O'Keeffe [mailto:j.okeeffe[at]londonmet.ac.uk]=20
> Sent: 03 November 2006 14:26
> Subject: The wearin'...of the poppy
>
>
> Carmel
>
> It seems that anyone appearing on a news programme on the BBC wears a=20
> poppy. The pressure to wear one seems to be applied by the BBC to a
wide=20
> variety of people, e.g.Muslim authors. The real dilemma for Willie
could=20
> have been no poppy, no appearance. There is tremendous pressure on=20
> non-English people to conform to their established norms but it is=20
> usually covert and unspoken rather than explicit.
>
> Regards
>
> Jim
>
> Carmel McCaffrey wrote:
>
> > I spotted Willie Walsh - probably one of the most "successful"=20
> businessmen of the diaspora - on BBC this morning wearing a poppy.=20
> Question - how much pressure is there on the Irish in Britain to
conform=20
> to this historical perspective? Would the wearing of the tradition=20
> rival symbol - the Easter lily - be an absolute anathema? I'm not=20
> trying to stir the pot here but I think it does seem to speak about=20
> the need to conform to a particular perspective or at least to be seen

> to confirm its legitimacy. Why would someone like Walsh not just=20
> ignore the whole thorny issue of history and stick to business?
> > Carmel
>
> .
>
> =20