Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: CFP Transatlantic Exchange: African Americans and the Celtic
Nations (Wales, Spring 2007)
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Forwarded on behalf of
daniel.g.williams[at]swansea.ac.uk

CFP Transatlantic Exchange: African Americans and the Celtic Nations (Wales,
Spring 2007)

Dear Patrick,

There's a full programme now on the website. Perhaps you'd be good enough
to circulate this for me among the Irish Diasporists, Daniel

Transatlantic Exchange: African Americans and the Celtic Nations
Canu Caeth: Affro-Americaniaid a'r Gwledydd Celtaidd.
WEDNESDAY MARCH 27 - FRIDAY MARCH 30, 2007.

Keynote speakers: John Callahan, Glenn Jordan, Jeffrey Stewart, Werner
Sollors.
Readings by Leonora Brito and Jackie Kay (sponsored by Academi).

Music by African American singer Rhiannon Giddens (sponsored by the
Collegium for African American Research), and jazz guitarist Jean
Paul-Bourelly (ex Miles Davis, Pharaoh Sanders, Cassandra Wilson) will
perform with the Welsh jazz quintet Cennad.

Panel speakers include Linden Peach, Alan Rice, Helen Mary Jones AM and
Robert Lawson-Peebles.

Cheaper 'early-bird' registration ends on January 26th. All information
- posters, programme, and registration form - on the conference website
http://www.swansea.ac.uk/english/crew/transatlanticexchange


Dr. Daniel Williams, CREW (Centre for Research into the English
Literature
and Language of Wales), Department of English, University of Wales
Swansea,
Singleton Park, Swansea SA2 8PP, Wales UK.
daniel.g.williams[at]swansea.ac.uk

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Joan Allen
Subject: Re: Review Article, The past and present of the Great Irish Famine
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Can colleagues help at all with a query about the provenance of the =
Irish ballad, 'The Wearing o' the Green'. I have seen various versions - =
mostly listed as Anon, street ballad, 1789- but I note also that Mike =
Cronin and Daryl Adair offer a version by Dion Boucicault in their book =
of the same title. The changed wording itself is quite interesting but =
my primary need is to establish whether there is such a thing as an =
original version and what is its attribution?
=20
many thanks,
Joan
=20
Lecturer in Modern British History
Armstrong Building
University of Newcastle
NE1 7RU
Tel 0191 222 6701
=20
Secretary, Society for the Study of Labour History
www.sslh.org.uk =20

________________________________

From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List on behalf of Patrick O'Sullivan
Sent: Tue 02/01/2007 22:30
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: [IR-D] Review Article, The past and present of the Great Irish =
Famine



This article, by Brian Graham, is a lengthy review of

Leslie Clarkson and Margaret Crawford
Famine and Disease in Ireland
5 volumes
Hardcover: 2000 pages
Publisher: Pickering & Chatto (Publishers) Ltd (1 Jun 2005)
Language English
ISBN-10: 1851967915
ISBN-13: 978-1851967919

(See also another review
Famine and disease in Ireland Edited by Leslie Clarkson and E. Margaret
Crawford
BRENDA COLLINS
The Economic History Review, Vol. 59, Issue 3, pp. 644-646, August 2006)

Journal of Historical Geography
Volume 33, Issue 1 , January 2007, Pages 200-206

Copyright =A9 2006 Elsevier Ltd All rights reserved.
Review article

The past and present of the Great Irish Famine

Brian Graham a, E-mail The Corresponding Author

aSchool of Environmental Sciences, University of Ulster, Cromore Road,
Coleraine, Northern Ireland BT52 1SA, UK

Available online 22 December 2006.

Opening paragraphs...
Edited by two highly respected economic historians, Leslie Clarkson and
Margaret Crawford, Famine and Disease in Ireland is a five-volume =
compendium
of various texts set in facsimile and ranging in date from 1727-1728 to
1856. In a sense, it is a companion set of sources to Clarkson and
Crawford's earlier book, Feast and Famine: A History of Food and =
Nutrition
in Ireland.1 The texts have been selected (although this has to be =
inferred
from the brief editorial commentary) because they place the Great Famine =
in
a broader context of hunger and fever which occurred in Ireland over
centuries preceding the cataclysmic events of the 1840s. The Great Irish
Famine is one of the better documented famines in history, not least =
because
of the rich local oral memories later collected by the Irish Folklore
Commission.2 As Cormac =D3 Gr=E1da has remarked, Irish historians have, =
however,
been wary of this oral tradition.3 The present collection is very much =
in
that vein with its focus on written sources and rational, scientific
explanations. But Clarkson and Crawford point also to a contemporary
resonance for their texts, arguing that this historical experience of =
famine
is relevant to parts of Africa and Asia which display at least some of =
the
features evident in Ireland in the mid-nineteenth century.

It is in this latter way that Famine and Disease intersects with the =
wider
debate, not just on the causes of the Great Famine but also on its =
meaning.
Until the early 1990s, the Great Famine of 1845-1849 stood as a paradox =
in
Irish historiography. It was, as =D3 Gr=E1da argues, the main event in =
Irish
history, 'still vividly etched in Irish and Irish-American folk memory' =
yet
'Irish historians tended to shy away from the topic', resulting in the
persistence of an overly simplifying 'populist-nationalist' discourse in
which the Famine and its associated mortality were 'almost entirely due =
to a
negligent government and cruel landlords.'4 Since these comments were
written, we have seen the sesquicentary of the Famine which began in =
1995
and was marked by the commissioning of a plethora of commemorative =
monuments
in Ireland, North America and Australia.5 These embrace both an array of
representational practices and also use the Famine to portray different
messages. While Roy Foster regards this activity in Ireland as no more =
than
a cynical exploitation of the Famine, the wave of commemoration being
'linked to exploiting tourist sites and attracting interest from the =
Irish
diaspora',6 more widely, it can be seen as portraying three rather =
different
narratives. As Kelleher argues, the question as to whom or what Famine
memorials commemorate is not one that is easily answered.7



--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.16.2/613 - Release Date: =
01/01/2007
14:50

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: The Wearing of the Green
In-Reply-To:
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Joan,

This is discussed in lots of places...

EG...

Cullingford, Elizabeth "National Identities in Performance: The Stage
Englishman of Boucicault's Irish Drama"
Theatre Journal - Volume 49, Number 3, October 1997, pp. 287-300
The Johns Hopkins University Press

Speaks of 'Shaun's rebel song, "The Wearing of the Green," a popular ballad
of 1798 that Boucicault rewrote...

Mulcahy, M. and Fitzgibbon, M. (1982). The voice of the people. Dublin:
O'Brien Press., p. 19, give a version of the song and say...

'This is the 1798 rendering. Dion Boucicault wrote a more popular version
for his play _Arrah na Pogue_ (1864). There are several versions of this
song. Air: based on "The Tulip" by James Oswald. The song "1881 Rent
Agitation" is also sung to this tune. Source: Broadside Ballads, NLI,
Dublin.'

Unfortunately this does not give us a date for that broadside ballad.

Zimmermann, G.D. (2002). Songs of Irish rebellion. Dublin: Four Courts
Press.

Has a section on the song, pp 167-170. TEXT A - which is rather unlike the
one we all know, but does have 'They hang men and women for the wearing of
the green...' - Zimmerman sources 'Garland printed in Dundalk in 1802', in
the library of the Royal Irish Academy. TEXT B - which has 'Napper Tandy' -
he sources Sparling, Irish Minstrelsy. But Sparling is 1888. Boucicault
appears in VARIANTS B. Zimmerman says: 'Boucicault is said to have written
this version at the suggestion of his mother, who remembered some lines the
older version.' And his source for that is Walsh, The Career of Dion
Boucicault, pp 104-105. VARIANTS C has a good source, The Citizen, January
1841.

Boucicault was a shrewd defender of copyright, and using his own version of
the song made sense.

Patrick O'Sullivan




-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf
Of Joan Allen
Sent: 11 January 2007 13:15
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Review Article, The past and present of the Great Irish
Famine

Can colleagues help at all with a query about the provenance of the Irish
ballad, 'The Wearing o' the Green'. I have seen various versions - mostly
listed as Anon, street ballad, 1789- but I note also that Mike Cronin and
Daryl Adair offer a version by Dion Boucicault in their book of the same
title. The changed wording itself is quite interesting but my primary need
is to establish whether there is such a thing as an original version and
what is its attribution?

many thanks,
Joan

Lecturer in Modern British History
Armstrong Building
University of Newcastle
NE1 7RU
Tel 0191 222 6701

Secretary, Society for the Study of Labour History
www.sslh.org.uk

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Joan Allen
Subject: Re: The Wearing of the Green
MIME-Version: 1.0
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That's very helpful-thank you!
=20
J =20

________________________________

From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List on behalf of Patrick O'Sullivan
Sent: Thu 11/01/2007 20:44
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: [IR-D] The Wearing of the Green



Joan,

This is discussed in lots of places...

EG...

Cullingford, Elizabeth "National Identities in Performance: The Stage
Englishman of Boucicault's Irish Drama"
Theatre Journal - Volume 49, Number 3, October 1997, pp. 287-300
The Johns Hopkins University Press

Speaks of 'Shaun's rebel song, "The Wearing of the Green," a popular =
ballad
of 1798 that Boucicault rewrote...

Mulcahy, M. and Fitzgibbon, M. (1982). The voice of the people. Dublin:
O'Brien Press., p. 19, give a version of the song and say...

'This is the 1798 rendering. Dion Boucicault wrote a more popular =
version
for his play _Arrah na Pogue_ (1864). There are several versions of =
this
song. Air: based on "The Tulip" by James Oswald. The song "1881 Rent
Agitation" is also sung to this tune. Source: Broadside Ballads, NLI,
Dublin.'

Unfortunately this does not give us a date for that broadside ballad.

Zimmermann, G.D. (2002). Songs of Irish rebellion. Dublin: Four Courts
Press.

Has a section on the song, pp 167-170. TEXT A - which is rather unlike =
the
one we all know, but does have 'They hang men and women for the wearing =
of
the green...' - Zimmerman sources 'Garland printed in Dundalk in 1802', =
in
the library of the Royal Irish Academy. TEXT B - which has 'Napper =
Tandy' -
he sources Sparling, Irish Minstrelsy. But Sparling is 1888. =
Boucicault
appears in VARIANTS B. Zimmerman says: 'Boucicault is said to have =
written
this version at the suggestion of his mother, who remembered some lines =
the
older version.' And his source for that is Walsh, The Career of Dion
Boucicault, pp 104-105. VARIANTS C has a good source, The Citizen, =
January
1841.

Boucicault was a shrewd defender of copyright, and using his own version =
of
the song made sense.

Patrick O'Sullivan

=20


-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On =
Behalf
Of Joan Allen
Sent: 11 January 2007 13:15
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Review Article, The past and present of the Great =
Irish
Famine

Can colleagues help at all with a query about the provenance of the =
Irish
ballad, 'The Wearing o' the Green'. I have seen various versions - =
mostly
listed as Anon, street ballad, 1789- but I note also that Mike Cronin =
and
Daryl Adair offer a version by Dion Boucicault in their book of the same
title. The changed wording itself is quite interesting but my primary =
need
is to establish whether there is such a thing as an original version and
what is its attribution?

many thanks,
Joan

Lecturer in Modern British History
Armstrong Building
University of Newcastle
NE1 7RU
Tel 0191 222 6701

Secretary, Society for the Study of Labour History
www.sslh.org.uk

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: TOC IRISH GEOGRAPHY, VOL 38; NUMB 2; 2005
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
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Remember that IRISH GEOGRAPHY is one of the few journals to have solved the
open access problem. Go to the web site for Abstracts and pdf texts...

P.O'S.

http://www.ucd.ie/gsi/journal.html


IRISH GEOGRAPHY
VOL 38; NUMB 2; 2005
ISSN 0075-0778

pp. 111-127
The late Tertiary landscapes of western Ireland.
Coxon, P.

pp. 128-150
Liberal rule through non-liberal means: the attempted settlement of Irish
Travellers (1955-1975).
Crowley, U. M.

pp. 151-168
Mind the gap! Householder attitudes and actions towards waste in Ireland.
Davies, A.; Fahy, F.; Taylor, D.

pp. 169-191
Questions on urban living.
Hourihane, J.

pp. 192-208
Articulating perceptions of rural and urban - the use of semantic scales.
Mahon, M.

pp. 209-224
Dublin's spatial narrative - the transition from essentially monocultural
places to polycultural spaces.
Kelly, D.

pp. 225-232
Ireland and Japan - the search for the tiger.
Brillet, P. M.

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "Rogers, James"
Subject: Irish as jurors
MIME-Version: 1.0
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A researcher has contacted me with an interesting question. She is working
on an 1890 murder trial in the Midwest, in which a wealthy and prominent man
was tried (and later convicted and hanged for) the murder of a young woman
who happened to be an Irish Catholic , though not an immigrant.

A substantial number of Irish names appear in the pool of 200 potential
jurors, but none of the Irish names made it to the jury. Many were dismissed
on the basis of peremptory challenges.

Did the Irish have a reputation (at home or abroad) for behaving in a
particular way as jurors? Has anyone studied this?

Thanks in advance for any help, however anecdotal or slight it might be,
that the list might provide.


Jim Rogers

James S. Rogers
Managing Director/Center for Irish Studies
Editor/New Hibernia Review
University of St Thomas #5008
2115 Summit Ave
St Paul, MN 55105-1096
(651) 962-5662
www.stthomas.edu/irishstudies

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "MacEinri, Piaras"
Subject: Re: TOC IRISH GEOGRAPHY, VOL 38; NUMB 2; 2005
MIME-Version: 1.0
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The report below is from today's London Times

There was a light-hearted radio discussion as I cycled to work this =
morning
about how people know when they have reached that interdeterminate =
condition
known as middle age. I think I now know the answer in my own case: when =
the
country you are currently living in the same geographical place you =
grew up
in, but bears no resemblance of any kind to it in any other any.

It's not just a Northern phenomenon either. British, Polish and Chinese
G=E1rda=ED and G=E1rda Reserve (volunteer support force) members are in =
training
or already on the streets, following a specific initiative last year by =
the
Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform.

Piaras

January 12, 2007

Poles help Ulster police to meet quota of Catholics
Marcus Leroux

# Hundreds apply to join the force
# Protestants claim 50-50 doesn't work
As anyone in urgent need of a plumber will testify, Polish immigration =
has
some obvious benefits - a fact that hasn't passed by the Police Service =
of
Northern Ireland.

The force formerly known as the Royal Ulster Constabulary has been =
inundated
by applications from young Poles desperate to become officers. And the =
wave
of hopeful candidates brings with it interesting implications for a =
service
required to recruit half of its new officers from a reluctant Roman =
Catholic
community.

Nearly 1,000 of the Province's burgeoning Polish community have =
responded to
a police recruitment drive - and they are nearly all Catholics. Poles
accounted for 12 per cent of the 7,749 applicants, which could provide =
a
lifeline for a force that has struggled to attract Catholic recruits.

The move, however, will not be popular in Poland. A report by the =
Polish
police force that was leaked yesterday complained of a shortfall in =
Poland
of up to 16,000 officers because of the vast numbers flocking to =
Britain and
Ireland.

Under the policing reforms, the PSNI must recruit Catholics and
non-Catholics equally, a restriction strongly disliked by Unionists =
because
it leads to the rejection of able and willing Protestant candidates.

But a combination of Republican intimidation and the lingering =
suspicion
among Catholics that the PSNI remains a Protestant police force has =
ensured
that its make-up is still disproportionately Protestant. Only 21 per =
cent of
its officers are Catholic.

The PSNI advertised in Polish publications north and south of the =
border to
encourage more of the estimated 30,000 Poles in Northern Ireland into =
their
ranks. A further 150,000 live south of the border, where the Irish =
police
are training Polish recruits.

The charm offensive was not the PSNI's first overture to the Poles. =
Late
last year the PSNI announced that it was to host a police officer on
secondment to improve relations with the Eastern European community, =
which
has suffered a marked increase in hate attacks.

A spokeswoman for the PSNI told The Times that Poles could count =
towards the
quota of Catholics. She said: "When anybody applies for a post it is up =
to
them to say what religion they are - Protestant, Catholic or other. If =
they
put themselves down as Catholic they will fall within the 50-50 =
recruitment
policy."

She said that the force was delighted with the response from the Polish
community.

Critics are already citing the loophole as proof that 50-50 recruitment =
does
not work.

Ian Paisley Jr, son of the DUP leader and member of the Policing Board,
said: "It highlights how ridiculous the whole policy is. You should not
recruit on a religious basis."

He added that if Polish applicants refused to specify what religion =
they
were they would be classified as "non-Catholics" and could deprive a
Protestant recruit of a place.

Alex Atwood, the SDLP's policing spokesman, admitted that it was not =
the
perfect tool but said it was getting results. "There are always going =
to be
hard cases that may or may not be deemed unfair, but 50-50 has worked =
very
well to redress the balance."

With a salary of =A322,000 a recruit in the PSNI can expect to earn =
almost
four times more than his counterpart in the Polish police.

Essential phrases for Polish police

'Ello, 'ello, 'ello: Czesc, Czesc, Czesc

What's going on here then?: Co w takim razie sie tu dzieje?

How old are you?: - Ile masz lat?

Sorry, you can't march through here: Maszerowanie wzbronione

What's your profession?: Jaki masz zaw=F3d?

Give it to me: Daj mi to

Source: Home Office

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "Murray, Edmundo"
Subject: Wedding gifts in 19th-century Ireland
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A Buenos Aires-based photography historian and collector is writing
about daguerrotypes in which admiral William Brown (1777-1857), founder
of the Argentine navy, and his wife are the main sitters. He would like
to know, and perhaps someone in the list may help me to answer, if it
was customary in Irish culture in the early 19th century to celebrate
wedding anniversaries by giving a ring as a present or a necklace, or
any such traditional gesture.

Edmundo Murray

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "Thomas J. Archdeacon"
Organization: UW-Madison
Subject: Re: Irish as jurors
In-Reply-To:
MIME-version: 1.0
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Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

This may be one of the unasked questions.

We are used to hearing about situation in which race plays a role in jury selection. Why shouldn't we assume that attorneys also used ethnicity or religion as they sought sympathetic hearings for their clients?

The situation of unasked questions has other parallels. We are properly conscious of the death penalty's disproportionate impact on African-Americans. On the other hand, a law professor friend of mine points out that -- in terms of the overall twentieth century -- Italians were the convicts most frequently executed. The underlying principle of being more inclined to visit severe punishment on those perceived to be marginal to the society is similar.

Tom

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Linda Dowling Almeida
Subject: Re: Irish as jurors
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Interesting project. I don't have any information on Irish behavior as=20
jurors, but could it just be fear that "clannish" Irish would disregard=20
evidence and convict the accused because the victim was one of their own.=
It=20
seems as though it may not have been an issue, or it was but it was=20
unfounded, since the accused was found guilty. But it would be interesti=
ng=20
to explore what the attitude of the community towards the Irish. I think =
I'd=20
look at those issues first.
Good luck.
Linda Dowling Almeida
New York University


>From: "Rogers, James"
>Reply-To: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
>To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
>Subject: [IR-D] Irish as jurors
>Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:14:06 -0600
>
>A researcher has contacted me with an interesting question. She is worki=
ng
>on an 1890 murder trial in the Midwest, in which a wealthy and prominent=
=20
>man
>was tried (and later convicted and hanged for) the murder of a young wom=
an
>who happened to be an Irish Catholic , though not an immigrant.
>
>A substantial number of Irish names appear in the pool of 200 potential
>jurors, but none of the Irish names made it to the jury. Many were=20
>dismissed
>on the basis of peremptory challenges.
>
>Did the Irish have a reputation (at home or abroad) for behaving in a
>particular way as jurors? Has anyone studied this?
>
>Thanks in advance for any help, however anecdotal or slight it might be,
>that the list might provide.
>
>
>Jim Rogers
>
>James S. Rogers
>Managing Director/Center for Irish Studies
>Editor/New Hibernia Review
>University of St Thomas #5008
>2115 Summit Ave
>St Paul, MN 55105-1096
>(651) 962-5662
>www.stthomas.edu/irishstudies

_________________________________________________________________
Type your favorite song.=A0 Get a customized station.=A0 Try MSN Radio po=
wered=20
by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=3DT002MSN03A07001

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Kerby Miller
Subject: Re: Irish as jurors
In-Reply-To:
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"

Interesting question. Where in the Midwest?

Check out the local county/town/area population, its composition, in
the published censuses. Also, is it 1890 or an early 20th-century US
census that has backhanded religious data?

Was the incident in what would soon be APA country (e.g., Iowa)?
Check out the old county histories from that era; can maybe find a
capsule biography of every juror or his family.

Wonder if the defense succeeded in excluding Orangemen from the jury?
I've seen quite a few Orange immigrants' letters from the Midwest
about that time: not pretty!

Kerby




>A researcher has contacted me with an interesting question. She is working
>on an 1890 murder trial in the Midwest, in which a wealthy and prominent man
>was tried (and later convicted and hanged for) the murder of a young woman
>who happened to be an Irish Catholic , though not an immigrant.
>
>A substantial number of Irish names appear in the pool of 200 potential
>jurors, but none of the Irish names made it to the jury. Many were dismissed
>on the basis of peremptory challenges.
>
>Did the Irish have a reputation (at home or abroad) for behaving in a
>particular way as jurors? Has anyone studied this?
>
>Thanks in advance for any help, however anecdotal or slight it might be,
>that the list might provide.
>
>
>Jim Rogers
>
>James S. Rogers
>Managing Director/Center for Irish Studies
>Editor/New Hibernia Review
>University of St Thomas #5008
>2115 Summit Ave
>St Paul, MN 55105-1096
>(651) 962-5662
>www.stthomas.edu/irishstudies

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Peter Hart
Subject: Re: Irish as jurors
In-Reply-To:
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Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Irish jurors (and witnesses) certainly did have a reputation for
unreliability - that is, for not acting based on what they thought was
true or false, but for personal advantage, or according to some unwritten
code, or whatever. You need search no farther than the Irish RM stories
for ample (and entertaining) illustration of this stereotype.

As for actual evidence, it was certainly true in political cases that
authorities beleived jurors untrustworthy - hence endless fiddling with
special courts etc. Needless to say, they were endlessly accused of
jury-packing etc. themselves - many such cases in the career of Daniel
O'Connell for one.

I don't know how the proposition could be tested, or whether comparisons
could be made. Britain simply didn't have a lot of Irish-style political
cases (including land matters). I suppose you could compare conviction
rates in jury cases?

Peter Hart


On Fri, 12 Jan 2007, Rogers, James wrote:

> A researcher has contacted me with an interesting question. She is working
> on an 1890 murder trial in the Midwest, in which a wealthy and prominent man
> was tried (and later convicted and hanged for) the murder of a young woman
> who happened to be an Irish Catholic , though not an immigrant.
>
> A substantial number of Irish names appear in the pool of 200 potential
> jurors, but none of the Irish names made it to the jury. Many were dismissed
> on the basis of peremptory challenges.
>
> Did the Irish have a reputation (at home or abroad) for behaving in a
> particular way as jurors? Has anyone studied this?
>
> Thanks in advance for any help, however anecdotal or slight it might be,
> that the list might provide.
>
>
> Jim Rogers
>
> James S. Rogers
> Managing Director/Center for Irish Studies
> Editor/New Hibernia Review
> University of St Thomas #5008
> 2115 Summit Ave
> St Paul, MN 55105-1096
> (651) 962-5662
> www.stthomas.edu/irishstudies
>

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Peter Hart
Subject: Re: Irish as jurors
In-Reply-To:
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: QUOTED-PRINTABLE

I should have mentioned this in the first email, but I believe race,
gender etc. still enter into jury selection in the US in a big way. You
can't do it directly,but you can challenge based on 'representativeness' I
believe - depending on the veue, this can skew a jury enormously. As in
LA, where OJ had a mostly black jury and the cops who beat up Rodney King
had amostly white jury from Simi Valley (sic).

I once had a poli sci prof who was a statistical expert who testified a
lot for this reason - simply to have an 'expert' say the jury should be
more black,, or white, or whatever. He made a lot of money at it...

Obviously, the aim would be to get a jury sympathetic to one's case based
on identification with the defendant's - or victim's - race or whatever.
I doubt Irishness counts for anytihng anymore though, having become
'white' and all.

Peter Hart


On Fri, 12 Jan 2007, Linda Dowling Almeida wrote:

> Interesting project. I don't have any information on Irish behavior as
> jurors, but could it just be fear that "clannish" Irish would disregard
> evidence and convict the accused because the victim was one of their own.=
It
> seems as though it may not have been an issue, or it was but it was
> unfounded, since the accused was found guilty. But it would be interesti=
ng
> to explore what the attitude of the community towards the Irish. I think =
I'd
> look at those issues first.
> Good luck.
> Linda Dowling Almeida
> New York University
>
>
> >From: "Rogers, James"
> >Reply-To: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
> >To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> >Subject: [IR-D] Irish as jurors
> >Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:14:06 -0600
> >
> >A researcher has contacted me with an interesting question. She is worki=
ng
> >on an 1890 murder trial in the Midwest, in which a wealthy and prominent
> >man
> >was tried (and later convicted and hanged for) the murder of a young wom=
an
> >who happened to be an Irish Catholic , though not an immigrant.
> >
> >A substantial number of Irish names appear in the pool of 200 potential
> >jurors, but none of the Irish names made it to the jury. Many were
> >dismissed
> >on the basis of peremptory challenges.
> >
> >Did the Irish have a reputation (at home or abroad) for behaving in a
> >particular way as jurors? Has anyone studied this?
> >
> >Thanks in advance for any help, however anecdotal or slight it might be,
> >that the list might provide.
> >
> >
> >Jim Rogers
> >
> >James S. Rogers
> >Managing Director/Center for Irish Studies
> >Editor/New Hibernia Review
> >University of St Thomas #5008
> >2115 Summit Ave
> >St Paul, MN 55105-1096
> >(651) 962-5662
> >www.stthomas.edu/irishstudies
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Type your favorite song.=A0 Get a customized station.=A0 Try MSN Radio po=
wered
> by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=3DT002MSN03A07001
>

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "Thomas J. Archdeacon"
Organization: UW-Madison
Subject: Re: Irish as jurors
In-Reply-To:
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable

Linda Dowling Almeida may be misreading the point of the story. The defens=
e attorney, acting in the interests of the accused, who was presumably not =
Irish, may have wanted to keep Irish off the jury because the attorney pres=
umably male in 1890) feared that they would want to punish somebody for kil=
ling an Irish-American woman. He kept them off but it did not help his cli=
ent. That might be evidence that the non-Irish jury acted fairly toward an=
Irish-American victim (let's presume the defendant actually was guilt), bu=
t it tells nothing about how the Irish excluded from the jury would have be=
haved.

Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behal=
f Of Linda Dowling Almeida
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 10:52 AM
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Irish as jurors

Interesting project. I don't have any information on Irish behavior as =

jurors, but could it just be fear that "clannish" Irish would disregard =

evidence and convict the accused because the victim was one of their own. I=
t =

seems as though it may not have been an issue, or it was but it was =

unfounded, since the accused was found guilty. But it would be interesting=
=

to explore what the attitude of the community towards the Irish. I think I'=
d =

look at those issues first.
Good luck.
Linda Dowling Almeida
New York University


>From: "Rogers, James"
>Reply-To: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
>To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
>Subject: [IR-D] Irish as jurors
>Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:14:06 -0600
>
>A researcher has contacted me with an interesting question. She is working=

>on an 1890 murder trial in the Midwest, in which a wealthy and prominent =

>man
>was tried (and later convicted and hanged for) the murder of a young woman=

>who happened to be an Irish Catholic , though not an immigrant.
>
>A substantial number of Irish names appear in the pool of 200 potential
>jurors, but none of the Irish names made it to the jury. Many were =

>dismissed
>on the basis of peremptory challenges.
>
>Did the Irish have a reputation (at home or abroad) for behaving in a
>particular way as jurors? Has anyone studied this?
>
>Thanks in advance for any help, however anecdotal or slight it might be,
>that the list might provide.
>
>
>Jim Rogers
>
>James S. Rogers
>Managing Director/Center for Irish Studies
>Editor/New Hibernia Review
>University of St Thomas #5008
>2115 Summit Ave
>St Paul, MN 55105-1096
>(651) 962-5662
>www.stthomas.edu/irishstudies

_________________________________________________________________
Type your favorite song.=A0 Get a customized station.=A0 Try MSN Radio powe=
red =

by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=3DT002MSN03A07001

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: NI World War II website launched
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

The following item has been brought to our attention...

press release

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6126810.stm

about a new web site:

http://www.secondworldwarni.org

NI World War II website launched

A website focusing on how the Second World War affected people from Northern
Ireland has been launched.

It will enable users to view resources that are held in Northern Ireland's
museums and archives.

It features six learning packages, specially developed for teachers and
school pupils.

These will examine the history of the war as it was experienced by people in
Northern Ireland. The website address is: www.secondworldwarni.org

The six topics covered by the learning packages are:

# Northern Ireland in the Blitz;

# Londonderry's role in the Battle of the Atlantic;

# The impact of the war on women in Northern Ireland;

# Irish neutrality;

# The Holocaust and Northern Ireland; and,

# American Forces in Northern Ireland.

The site also includes information on how unprepared Northern Ireland was
for the war and allows visitors to listen to men and women who experienced
the war.

It is produced by the Nerve Centre.

Along with museums across Northern Ireland, the Public Records Office is a
partner in the site and has enabled the inclusion of a collection of
important archives.

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "Thomas J. Archdeacon"
Organization: UW-Madison
Subject: Re: Irish as jurors
In-Reply-To:
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT

Tangentially relevant to D.C. Rose's message. I once found myself in a pool of potential jurors to try a drunk driving case (or, for my overseas friends, a drink driving case). The judge asked how many of us had been found guilty of drunk driving or had a relative so adjudged. More than half raised their hands. (I point out, as humbly as possible, that I was not among them). That either proves that lots of people in Wisconsin drink too much (very likely) or that Wisconsin police take the problem seriously (also likely). At the risk of encouraging stereotypes, one disturbing memory I have of a visit to Ireland is the sight of several blindly drunk young men stumbling out of a pub where they had been celebrating a Mayo win in a Gaelic game (I can't remember if it was football or hurling), weaving past three policemen to enter their car, and driving off without consequence.

Tom

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: D C Rose
Subject: Re: Irish as jurors
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

'Anecdotal and slight', as requested. Most accounts of Carson include =
the story that when a panel of country jurors was told by the Clerk of =
the Court to take their usual place, they made their way to the dock...

David
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Rogers, James=20
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK=20
Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 5:14 PM
Subject: Irish as jurors


A researcher has contacted me with an interesting question. She is =
working
on an 1890 murder trial in the Midwest, in which a wealthy and =
prominent man
was tried (and later convicted and hanged for) the murder of a young =
woman
who happened to be an Irish Catholic , though not an immigrant.=20

A substantial number of Irish names appear in the pool of 200 =
potential
jurors, but none of the Irish names made it to the jury. Many were =
dismissed
on the basis of peremptory challenges.

Did the Irish have a reputation (at home or abroad) for behaving in a
particular way as jurors? Has anyone studied this?

Thanks in advance for any help, however anecdotal or slight it might =
be,
that the list might provide.


Jim Rogers

James S. Rogers
Managing Director/Center for Irish Studies
Editor/New Hibernia Review
University of St Thomas #5008
2115 Summit Ave
St Paul, MN 55105-1096
(651) 962-5662
www.stthomas.edu/irishstudies

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Linda Dowling Almeida
Subject: Re: Irish as jurors
In-Reply-To:
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed

I think that is what I said.


>From: "Thomas J. Archdeacon"
>Reply-To: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
>To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
>Subject: Re: [IR-D] Irish as jurors
>Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 16:42:40 -0600
>
>Linda Dowling Almeida may be misreading the point of the story. The
>defense attorney, acting in the interests of the accused, who was
>presumably not Irish, may have wanted to keep Irish off the jury because
>the attorney presumably male in 1890) feared that they would want to punish
>somebody for killing an Irish-American woman. He kept them off but it did
>not help his client. That might be evidence that the non-Irish jury acted
>fairly toward an Irish-American victim (let's presume the defendant
>actually was guilt), but it tells nothing about how the Irish excluded from
>the jury would have behaved.
>
>Tom
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
>Behalf Of Linda Dowling Almeida
>Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 10:52 AM
>To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
>Subject: Re: [IR-D] Irish as jurors
>
>Interesting project. I don't have any information on Irish behavior as
>jurors, but could it just be fear that "clannish" Irish would disregard
>evidence and convict the accused because the victim was one of their own.
>It
>seems as though it may not have been an issue, or it was but it was
>unfounded, since the accused was found guilty. But it would be interesting
>to explore what the attitude of the community towards the Irish. I think
>I'd
>look at those issues first.
>Good luck.
>Linda Dowling Almeida
>New York University
>
>
> >From: "Rogers, James"
> >Reply-To: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
> >To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> >Subject: [IR-D] Irish as jurors
> >Date: Fri, 12 Jan 2007 10:14:06 -0600
> >
> >A researcher has contacted me with an interesting question. She is
>working
> >on an 1890 murder trial in the Midwest, in which a wealthy and prominent
> >man
> >was tried (and later convicted and hanged for) the murder of a young
>woman
> >who happened to be an Irish Catholic , though not an immigrant.
> >
> >A substantial number of Irish names appear in the pool of 200 potential
> >jurors, but none of the Irish names made it to the jury. Many were
> >dismissed
> >on the basis of peremptory challenges.
> >
> >Did the Irish have a reputation (at home or abroad) for behaving in a
> >particular way as jurors? Has anyone studied this?
> >
> >Thanks in advance for any help, however anecdotal or slight it might be,
> >that the list might provide.
> >
> >
> >Jim Rogers
> >
> >James S. Rogers
> >Managing Director/Center for Irish Studies
> >Editor/New Hibernia Review
> >University of St Thomas #5008
> >2115 Summit Ave
> >St Paul, MN 55105-1096
> >(651) 962-5662
> >www.stthomas.edu/irishstudies
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>Type your favorite song. Get a customized station. Try MSN Radio powered
>by Pandora. http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001

_________________________________________________________________
From photos to predictions, The MSN Entertainment Guide to Golden Globes has
it all. http://tv.msn.com/tv/globes2007/?icid=nctagline1

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "micheal.ohaodha"
Subject: Re: Irish as jurors
In-Reply-To: A
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

A major Mayo win has been a very rare event in the past hundred years or =
so!! - despite a very fine tradition of football in this county. I know =
as I'm a Galway man and we would be their main rivals! That incident =
wouldn't happen today - the drink-driving laws are extremely strict now

Beannachtai
Michael Hayes=20
Department of English and History=20
University of Limerick=20


-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK]On
Behalf Of Thomas J. Archdeacon
Sent: 12 January 2007 22:53
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Irish as jurors


Tangentially relevant to D.C. Rose's message. I once found myself in a =
pool of potential jurors to try a drunk driving case (or, for my =
overseas friends, a drink driving case). The judge asked how many of us =
had been found guilty of drunk driving or had a relative so adjudged. =
More than half raised their hands. (I point out, as humbly as possible, =
that I was not among them). That either proves that lots of people in =
Wisconsin drink too much (very likely) or that Wisconsin police take the =
problem seriously (also likely). At the risk of encouraging =
stereotypes, one disturbing memory I have of a visit to Ireland is the =
sight of several blindly drunk young men stumbling out of a pub where =
they had been celebrating a Mayo win in a Gaelic game (I can't remember =
if it was football or hurling), weaving past three policemen to enter =
their car, and driving off without consequence.=20

Tom=20

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Police
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Return-Path:

In my parents' time it used to be said that one was middle-aged when one
remarked on the seeming youthfulness of policemen.

Having reached sixty what I find noticable, however, is the fact so many of
the younger Gardai appear to have gotten smaller, slighter, and far less
intimidating overall. Since I am vertically challenged, to put it mildly,
this suggests that the average six-foot tall youth of today may find it hard
to keep a straight face when confronted by a member of The force!

As an erstwhile Inner City Dub. who, on 'Sixties protest marches etc. had
several frustrating brushes with large country policemen,its odd to find
myself waxing nostalgic over a pre-Independence photograph of serried ranks
of DMP (Dublin Metropolitan Police) men. These so noted for their impressive
bulk that the wives of certain British officers used to sometimes seek
excuses to address younger specimens on Grafton Street.

Perhaps a few well built Poles might be an asset to the Garda Siochana in
more ways than one...

Ultan




The Irish Diaspora Studies List wrote:

<
< The report below is from today's London Times
<
< There was a light-hearted radio discussion as I cycled to work this =
< morning
< about how people know when they have reached that interdeterminate =
< condition
< known as middle age. I think I now know the answer in my own case: when =
< the
< country you are currently living in the same geographical place you =
< grew up
< in, but bears no resemblance of any kind to it in any other any.
<
< It's not just a Northern phenomenon either. British, Polish and Chinese
< G=E1rda=ED and G=E1rda Reserve (volunteer support force) members are in =
< training
< or already on the streets, following a specific initiative last year by =
< the
< Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform.
<
< Piaras
<