Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Dymphna Lonergan
Subject: Re: Origin of the term 'Black '47'
In-Reply-To:
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It may refer to the famine in 1847, as dubh (black) na bpratai is a term=20
for 'potato blight':.

Patrick O'Sullivan wrote:
> From: "Patrick Fitzgerald"
> To: "The Irish Diaspora Studies List"
> Cc: "Brian Lambkin"
>
> Paddy,=20
>
> We have a query you might float for us on the list.=20
>
> Does anyone have any information relating to the origin of the term 'Bl=
ack
> '47'?
>
> Hope you are keeping well,=20
>
> Paddy Fitzgerald CMS UAFP
>
> =20

--=20

Le gach dea ghu=ED

=20

=20

=20

*Dr Dymphna Lonergan*

*Professional Studies*

Topic Convener Professional English; Professional English for Teachers;=20
Professional English for Medical Scientists ENGL1001/A; ENGL1012; ENGL101=
3

=20

Topic convener Professional Writing PROF2010; Professional Writing for=20
Teams PROF8000

=20

Topic convener The Story of Australian English ENGL7214

=20

Research interests: Irish settlement in South Australia; Irish language=20
in Australia; Placenames Australia (Irish project)

=20

Publication: /Sounds Irish: The Irish language in Australia=20
/http://www.lythrumpress.com.au

=20

=20

=20

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Dymphna Lonergan
Subject: Re: National Archives of Ireland
In-Reply-To:
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They are all 'fo ceimire', undergraduates. The words next to Bulfin's=20
name, mar leanann, are the equivalent of 'ditto'. Bulfin was born in=20
Argentina tir an Airgintin. I'm probably using modern spelling as I'm=20
not good at distinguishing those old Ss and Rs.

Murray, Edmundo wrote:
> I found very interesting the list of pupils in Padraig Pearse's school,
> St. Enda's, under the same NLI website.
> (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000133808/)
>
> Could any Irish-language specialist be so kind to tell me what are the
> inscriptions under "Rank, Profession or standing" and "Where Born" for
> the entry # 2, Eamonn Bulfin?
>
> Thanks very much,
>
> Edmundo Murray
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
> Behalf Of Bruce Stewart
> Sent: 06 December 2007 15:20
> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Subject: Re: [IR-D] National Archives of Ireland
>
>
> Great project by the NLI! I'm adding it straightaway to the Gateway in
> Ricorso (try it! - http://www.ricorso.net/rx/gateway/index.htm - under
> Catalogues).
>
> Errors do creep in, though - even at NLI. Like Carmel, I checked for a
> Dublin grandparent - Albert le Brocquy (son of one Louis and father of
> another) and found the index lists the family name as Le Broequy [sic].=
=20
>
> The housemaid Mary Kelly cited on the return was the original of the
> Dublin story about the 'general' who left briefly to get married and
> returned after 5 days to resume her job, saying only "Men is divils" an=
d
> not a word more about the matter.=20
>
> Most of these documents were written up using the famous "J" pen (steel
> nib) an example of which Bloom has on his dresser. I picked up a box of
> these in a barrow in Dublin back when (as also an authentic brick of 7
> Eccles St.)=20
>
> It's naturally interesting to compare the script with contemporary
> writing in the age of classroom keyboards. Gone for ever the hard old
> bench.=20
>
> You might safely infer that James Joyce is now the most famous Irishman
> of all - at least in the time-frame in question - cos his 'line' is in
> the banner of the website. Odd. He was not in Dublin in 1911. Oh well
> ...!=20
>
>
> Bruce.=20
>
> Dr. Bruce Stewart
> Languages & Lit.
> University of Ulster
> Coleraine, Co. Derry
> N. Ireland BT52 1SA
> www.ricorso.net
> =20
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
> Behalf Of Carmel McCaffrey
> Sent: 04 December 2007 15:10
> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Subject: [IR-D] National Archives of Ireland
>
>
> The National Archives of Ireland are making census information availabl=
e
>
> online. The census of 1911 is now being put onto the web - the first=20
> available is for Dublin 1911. The actual handwritten forms are shown.=20
> Below is the link. To those Dubliners like me it has proved to be to b=
e
>
> a very sentimental journey. I can see my grandfather's - as a very=20
> young man - and great grandmother's handwriting as they filled in their=
=20
> forms for their families.=20
>
> Carmel
>
> http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/
>
> =20

--=20

Le gach dea ghu=ED

=20

=20

=20

*Dr Dymphna Lonergan*

*Professional Studies*

Topic Convener Professional English; Professional English for Teachers;=20
Professional English for Medical Scientists ENGL1001/A; ENGL1012; ENGL101=
3

=20

Topic convener Professional Writing PROF2010; Professional Writing for=20
Teams PROF8000

=20

Topic convener The Story of Australian English ENGL7214

=20

Research interests: Irish settlement in South Australia; Irish language=20
in Australia; Placenames Australia (Irish project)

=20

Publication: /Sounds Irish: The Irish language in Australia=20
/http://www.lythrumpress.com.au

=20

=20

=20

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Jim Doan
Subject: Re: The Irish in The Bahamas
In-Reply-To:
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Re: the chickcharneys, they are definitely trickster-type figures. I've
asked my Bahamian students about them and the stories do suggest possible
influence of Irish leprechauns, as well as possibly figures from African
folk tradition.

James E. Doan, Ph.D.
Professor of Humanities, Humanities Major Chair and
President, South Florida Irish Studies Consortium, Inc.
Nova Southeastern University
3301 College Avenue
Davie/Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33314
954-262-8207; Fax: 954-262-3881


-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]jiscmail.ac.uk] On Behalf
Of Patrick O'Sullivan
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2007 4:08 PM
To: IR-D[at]jiscmail.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [IR-D] The Irish in The Bahamas

There is the usual pattern of mentions of the Irish turning up, but with no
strong source. I do note that people cite The Land of the Pink Pearl by L.
D. Powles, 1888.

Powles was appointed stipendary justice in the Bahamas in 1886. He began to
collect information about the history of the islands but soon discovered
when he asked questions that people thought he was enquiring about
Barbados...

(That is a private joke, between Michael Kenneally and me...)

Looking at my own resources...

James E. Doan "The Irish in the Caribbean,"
ABEI Journal: The Brazilian Journal of Irish Studies 8 (2006), 105-16.

Has been mentioned. I looked at this and thought, this changes things...

Edmundoi Murray has just brought to our attention the latest issue of Irish
Migration Studies in Latin America. I have not had a chance to explore it,
but it looks good, and might have something of relevance here.

I do recommend Bob Reece's book...

Reece, Bob. 2001. The origins of Irish convict transportation to New South
Wales. Basingstoke: Palgrave.

Bahamas is in the index, and turns up in the earlier Atlantic sections of
the book. Bob has chased down many mentions, giving an account of the place
of the Bahamas in the indentured/convict systems, and in wider Atlantic
history.

There is a useful summary, with up to date references, of the histories of
the peoples of the Bahamas and Barbados in...

Stoffle, Brent, and Richard Stoffle. 2007. At the Sea's Edge: Elders and
Children in the Littorals of Barbados and the Bahamas. Human Ecology 35
(5):547 - 558.

I found very interesting...

Johnson, Howard. 1986. 'A Modified Form of Slavery': The Credit and Truck
Systems in the Bahamas in the Nineteenth and Early Twentieth Centuries.
Comparative Studies in Society and History 28 (4):729 - 753.

Not strictly relevant, but it is in my notes...

Gosine, Andil. 2007. Marginalization Myths and the Complexity of 'Men':
Engaging Critical Conversations about Irish and Caribbean Masculinities. Men
and Masculinities 9 (3):337 - 357.

A BRIEF note, VERY BRIEF, in the Folklore in the News section of the journal
Western Folklore, 6, 2, p 187, 1947...
Mentions the Chickcharneys of Andros Island, Bahamas, which are said to be
like the leprechauns of Ireland. The source is given as TIME, March 24,
1947. I don't think any direct connection is being suggested, and I have
not looked at the original source.

P.O'S.


-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf
Of Patrick O'Sullivan
Sent: 04 December 2007 19:55
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: [IR-D] The Irish in The Bahamas

From: Michael Kenneally [mailto:michael.kenneally[at]concordia.ca]
Sent: 03 December 2007 15:19
Subject: The Irish in The Bahamas

Dear Paddy,

I have had an enquiry regarding any historical links (significant
immigrants, etc.) between Ireland and The Bahamas and would be grateful for
any information members of the list might provide.

The person is looking for historical links through immigration - famous or
celebrated Irish emigrants or Irish-Bahamians. Perhaps even place names
associated with Irish emigrants or settlements. I know we are dealing with a
very small set of islands but there must be some stories/histories lurking
around some corner.

Many thanks for whatever can be discovered.

Thank you,

Michael

________________________________________

Michael Kenneally, Professor
Chair in Canadian Irish Studies
Director, Centre for Canadian Irish Studies
Concordia University
1590 Dr. Penfield
Montreal QC H3G 1C5
514 848 8711

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Robert Grace
Subject: Re: Origin of the term 'Black '47'
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from Robert J. Grace
Universit=E9 Laval, Qu=E9bec

I have no documentary evidence for this and I agree that the blight made =
the
potatoes black but I have heard that the bodies of people who died of typ=
hus
that year turned a blackish colour shortly after death.
Robert
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Patrick Fitzgerald"
To:
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 6:12 AM
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Origin of the term 'Black '47'


Paddy,
Yes I thought of those works but could not find any discussion of the cho=
sen
title which might lead to the origins of the term. I agree with you on th=
e
semantics of Black and I suspect an origin in North America, possibly bef=
ore
1870, but thanks for putting the query out and for sharing your own thoug=
hts
with me. I should try Chris Morash as you suggest.
Many thanks,
Paddy

-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Beh=
alf
Of Patrick O'Sullivan
Sent: 07 December 2007 10:51
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: [IR-D] Origin of the term 'Black '47'

Paddy F.

I should apologise - I should not have allowed this message through witho=
ut
seeking clarification.

For example, my own impulse would be to take down books by Cormac O Grada
and Frank Neal who have used the phrase in titles - and see what they hav=
e
to say. But presumably you have already done that.

I would see the phrase as arising out of normal use of the English word
'black' to mean baneful, disastrous, sinister (OED) - see the long sequen=
ce
of black days we have had in recent economic history. Think of Carleton,
The Black Prophet.

As an aside, I have been criticised in discussion for using the phrase,
Black '47, because I was thereby continuing to associate the word 'black'
with something sinister. I was quoting a book title. I did wonder at th=
at
point when exactly the phrase began to be used - and obviously thought of
C19th rhetoric.

The phrase was clearly current at the beginning of the C20th - it is used=
by
Shaw in Man and Superman...

MALONE. ...Me father died of starvation in Ireland in the black 47. Maybe
youve heard of it.
VIOLET. The Famine?
MALONE [with smouldering passion] No, the starvation. When a country is f=
ull
o food, and exporting it, there can be no famine. Me father was starved
dead; and I was starved out to America in me mother's arms.

Text from Bartleby.

Thinking further about Dymphna Lonergan's thought... Cormac O Grada does
look at the word dubh, black, in song and poetry. For example in Peatsai=
O
Callanain, 'The White Potatoes', sometimes remembered as 'The Ballad of t=
he
Black Potatoes'.

=D3 Gr=E1da, Cormac. 1999. Black '47 and beyond. Princeton, N.J: Princeto=
n
University Press, p. 217.

It is indeed difficult to talk about what happens to the potatoes without
using the word, black - when the fungus strikes, they go black.

But I think we are looking at normal, English use of the word, black. It=
is
easy to see that talk of 'that black year' would lead in time to talk of
Black '47, as the need arose to specify which particular black year... B=
ut
quite when that happened I do not know.

Christopher Morash might know.

Patrick O'Sullivan



-----Original Message-----
To: IR-D Jiscmail
Subject: Origin of the term 'Black '47'

From: "Patrick Fitzgerald"
To: "The Irish Diaspora Studies List"
Cc: "Brian Lambkin"

Paddy,

We have a query you might float for us on the list.

Does anyone have any information relating to the origin of the term 'Blac=
k
'47'?

Hope you are keeping well,

Paddy Fitzgerald CMS UAFP

************************************************************************

National Museums Northern Ireland comprises the Ulster Museum, Ulster Fol=
k
and Transport Museum, Ulster American Folk Park, Armagh County Museum and
W5.

The Ulster Museum is currently closed for major redevelopment. Details o=
f
the museum's programme of outreach activities during closure can be found=
at
www.ulstermuseum.org.uk.

All our other sites are open as normal.


Any views expressed by the sender of this message are not necessarily tho=
se
of the National Museums Northern Ireland. This email and any files
transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or
entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in err=
or
please notify the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your
email software.

All emails are swept for the presence of viruses.

************************************************************************

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Origin of the term 'Black '47'
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Paddy F.

I should apologise - I should not have allowed this message through =
without
seeking clarification.

For example, my own impulse would be to take down books by Cormac O =
Grada
and Frank Neal who have used the phrase in titles - and see what they =
have
to say. But presumably you have already done that.

I would see the phrase as arising out of normal use of the English word
'black' to mean baneful, disastrous, sinister (OED) - see the long =
sequence
of black days we have had in recent economic history. Think of =
Carleton,
The Black Prophet.

As an aside, I have been criticised in discussion for using the phrase,
Black '47, because I was thereby continuing to associate the word =
'black'
with something sinister. I was quoting a book title. I did wonder at =
that
point when exactly the phrase began to be used - and obviously thought =
of
C19th rhetoric.

The phrase was clearly current at the beginning of the C20th - it is =
used by
Shaw in Man and Superman...

MALONE. ...Me father died of starvation in Ireland in the black 47. =
Maybe
youve heard of it. =20
VIOLET. The Famine? =20
MALONE [with smouldering passion] No, the starvation. When a country is =
full
o food, and exporting it, there can be no famine. Me father was starved
dead; and I was starved out to America in me mother=92s arms.=20

Text from Bartleby.

Thinking further about Dymphna Lonergan's thought... Cormac O Grada =
does
look at the word dubh, black, in song and poetry. For example in =
Peatsai O
Callanain, 'The White Potatoes', sometimes remembered as 'The Ballad of =
the
Black Potatoes'.

=D3 Gr=E1da, Cormac. 1999. Black '47 and beyond. Princeton, N.J: =
Princeton
University Press, p. 217.

It is indeed difficult to talk about what happens to the potatoes =
without
using the word, black - when the fungus strikes, they go black.

But I think we are looking at normal, English use of the word, black. =
It is
easy to see that talk of 'that black year' would lead in time to talk of
Black '47, as the need arose to specify which particular black year... =
But
quite when that happened I do not know.

Christopher Morash might know.

Patrick O'Sullivan



-----Original Message-----
To: IR-D Jiscmail
Subject: Origin of the term 'Black '47'

From: "Patrick Fitzgerald"
To: "The Irish Diaspora Studies List"
Cc: "Brian Lambkin"

Paddy,=20

We have a query you might float for us on the list.=20

Does anyone have any information relating to the origin of the term =
'Black
'47'?

Hope you are keeping well,=20

Paddy Fitzgerald CMS UAFP

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick Fitzgerald
Subject: Re: Origin of the term 'Black '47'
Comments: cc: Brian Lambkin
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Paddy,
Yes I thought of those works but could not find any discussion of the=
chosen title which might lead to the origins of the term. I agree with you=
on the semantics of Black and I suspect an origin in North America,=
possibly before 1870, but thanks for putting the query out and for sharing=
your own thoughts with me. I should try Chris Morash as you suggest.
Many thanks,
Paddy =0D

-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On=
Behalf Of Patrick O'Sullivan
Sent: 07 December 2007 10:51
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: [IR-D] Origin of the term 'Black '47'

Paddy F.

I should apologise - I should not have allowed this message through without
seeking clarification.

For example, my own impulse would be to take down books by Cormac O Grada
and Frank Neal who have used the phrase in titles - and see what they have
to say. But presumably you have already done that.

I would see the phrase as arising out of normal use of the English word
'black' to mean baneful, disastrous, sinister (OED) - see the long sequence
of black days we have had in recent economic history. Think of Carleton,
The Black Prophet.

As an aside, I have been criticised in discussion for using the phrase,
Black '47, because I was thereby continuing to associate the word 'black'
with something sinister. I was quoting a book title. I did wonder at that
point when exactly the phrase began to be used - and obviously thought of
C19th rhetoric.

The phrase was clearly current at the beginning of the C20th - it is used=
by
Shaw in Man and Superman...

MALONE. ...Me father died of starvation in Ireland in the black 47. Maybe
youve heard of it. =0D
VIOLET. The Famine? =0D
MALONE [with smouldering passion] No, the starvation. When a country is=
full
o food, and exporting it, there can be no famine. Me father was starved
dead; and I was starved out to America in me mother's arms.=0D

Text from Bartleby.

Thinking further about Dymphna Lonergan's thought... Cormac O Grada does
look at the word dubh, black, in song and poetry. For example in Peatsai O
Callanain, 'The White Potatoes', sometimes remembered as 'The Ballad of the
Black Potatoes'.

=D3 Gr=E1da, Cormac. 1999. Black '47 and beyond. Princeton, N.J: Princeton
University Press, p. 217.

It is indeed difficult to talk about what happens to the potatoes without
using the word, black - when the fungus strikes, they go black.

But I think we are looking at normal, English use of the word, black. It=
is
easy to see that talk of 'that black year' would lead in time to talk of
Black '47, as the need arose to specify which particular black year... But
quite when that happened I do not know.

Christopher Morash might know.

Patrick O'Sullivan



-----Original Message-----
To: IR-D Jiscmail
Subject: Origin of the term 'Black '47'

From: "Patrick Fitzgerald"
To: "The Irish Diaspora Studies List"
Cc: "Brian Lambkin"

Paddy,=0D

We have a query you might float for us on the list.=0D

Does anyone have any information relating to the origin of the term 'Black
'47'?

Hope you are keeping well,=0D

Paddy Fitzgerald CMS UAFP

************************************************************************
=0D
National Museums Northern Ireland comprises the Ulster Museum, Ulster Folk=
and Transport Museum, Ulster American Folk Park, Armagh County Museum and=
W5.

The Ulster Museum is currently closed for major redevelopment. Details of=
the museum's programme of outreach activities during closure can be found=
at www.ulstermuseum.org.uk.

All our other sites are open as normal.


Any views expressed by the sender of this message are not necessarily those=
of the National Museums Northern Ireland. This email and any files=
transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or=
entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in=
error please notify the sender immediately by using the reply facility in=
your email software.

All emails are swept for the presence of viruses.

************************************************************************

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Carmel McCaffrey
Subject: Re: Origin of the term 'Black '47'
In-Reply-To:
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Kerby,

I think the term is more ubiquitous than just the political connotation
associated with it - in my "mixed" upbringing [Catholic and Church of
Ireland] the term was also used to describe Ulster Presbyterians or any
non-conformists [including those in the south] who generally led was was
perceived as a "bleak" lifestyle: overly strict Sunday observance,
suspicion of Christmas as a hedonistic "unchristian" fraud, or what is
generally described as the suspicion that someone somewhere might be
enjoying themselves. I remember hearing one C of I relative saying that
he stayed in a guest house in Kerry but the owner was a "black
Protestant" who wouldn't allow the piano to be played on Sunday.

This of course was perception and contrasts with the Catholic south and
Good Friday. Those of us who grew up prior to the 1970s will remember
Good Friday as a bleak day in the south - everything shut down. Crossing
the border was a relief as shops, restaurants were all open and
thriving. No observance of a bleak Good Friday for the Ulster region.

Carmel


Kerby Miller wrote:
> What, if any, are the associations with phrases such "the Black North"
> or "Black Protestants"?
>
> I've heard some people argue that it's a generically sectarian term,
> used by some Irish Catholics to refer to any or all Protestants,
> particularly in Ulster (has the term ever been used to refer to Irish
> Protestants other than in Ulster),

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick Maume
Subject: Re: National Archives of Ireland
In-Reply-To:
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Disposition: inline

From: Patrick Maume
The Royal University of Ireland, a federal body which existed from 1881
until the National University of Ireland came into operation, was an
exams-only body (it subsidised the Catholic University College in Stephen's
Green and the Queens Colleges by appointing some of their staff as Fellows
of the RUI).
Since you did not need to attend a constituent college in order to sit RU=
I
examinations, quite a few secondary schools (such as Blackrock and
Clongowes) had "collegiate sections" in which older pupils were taught
classes with a view to sitting the RUI examinations. I presume that St.
Enda's had such a section, hence the "undergraduates".
BTW here's an interesting counterfactual. When the RUI was set up,
Archbishop Walsh of Dublin took the view that the "Catholic" fellowships
should be divided among the "Catholic colleges" rather than being reserved
for University College. The Jesuits succeeded in defeating this by arguing
that the only way to have a viable third-level institution was to
concentrate resources; Walsh resigned from the RUI governing body after his
proposal to give a fellowship to the headmaster of Blackrock was defeated.
The counterfactual is this: if Walsh's policy had prevailed, might it
have led to the development of several small "teaching only" Catholic
3rd-level institutions run by the same religious orders which ran the
schools, as there are in America? I suspect not, because (a) there wouldn'=
t
be the economic base/demand for degrees from such colleges as there was in
America (b) such institutions would have been at a permanent disadvantage
against TCD; the Catholic authorities wanted an university that could
plausibly be seen as a rival to TCD or even (in Newman's more imaginative
moments) to Oxbridge!
Best wishes,
Patrick

On Dec 7, 2007 7:57 AM, MacEinri, Piaras wrote:

> Hello Dymphna
>
> I think there is a little confusion here. As far as I can make out the
> reference to 'f=F3-ch=E9imidhe, iolsgoil n=E1isi=FAnta' (undergraduate, N=
ational
> University i.e. UCD in this case; modern spelling fo-ch=E9im=ED, Iolscoil
> N=E1isi=FAnta) is only to the teacher ('oide') i.e. the first person on t=
he
> list, =C9amonn =D3 Tuathail. The rest are all described as 'mac l=E9ighin=
n'
> (modern spelling mac l=E9inn), or student i.e. second level student or
> pupil. Argentina is entered as 'T=EDr an Airgid'.
>
> The really interesting point is that the entries are in Irish in the firs=
t
> place and were presumably accepted. It would be interesting to know if th=
e
> same thing happened for Welsh and Scots Gaelic in the 1911 Census in
> Britain.
>
> Piaras
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List on behalf of Dymphna Lonergan
> Sent: Thu 12/6/2007 10:43 PM
> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Subject: Re: [IR-D] National Archives of Ireland
>
> They are all 'fo ceimire', undergraduates. The words next to Bulfin's
> name, mar leanann, are the equivalent of 'ditto'. Bulfin was born in
> Argentina tir an Airgintin. I'm probably using modern spelling as I'm
> not good at distinguishing those old Ss and Rs.
>
> Murray, Edmundo wrote:
> > I found very interesting the list of pupils in Padraig Pearse's school,
> > St. Enda's, under the same NLI website.
> > (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000133808/)
> >
> > Could any Irish-language specialist be so kind to tell me what are the
> > inscriptions under "Rank, Profession or standing" and "Where Born" for
> > the entry # 2, Eamonn Bulfin?
> >
> > Thanks very much,
> >
> > Edmundo Murray
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
> > Behalf Of Bruce Stewart
> > Sent: 06 December 2007 15:20
> > To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> > Subject: Re: [IR-D] National Archives of Ireland
> >
> >
> > Great project by the NLI! I'm adding it straightaway to the Gateway in
> > Ricorso (try it! - http://www.ricorso.net/rx/gateway/index.htm - under
> > Catalogues).
> >
> > Errors do creep in, though - even at NLI. Like Carmel, I checked for a
> > Dublin grandparent - Albert le Brocquy (son of one Louis and father of
> > another) and found the index lists the family name as Le Broequy [sic].
> >
> > The housemaid Mary Kelly cited on the return was the original of the
> > Dublin story about the 'general' who left briefly to get married and
> > returned after 5 days to resume her job, saying only "Men is divils" an=
d
> > not a word more about the matter.
> >
> > Most of these documents were written up using the famous "J" pen (steel
> > nib) an example of which Bloom has on his dresser. I picked up a box of
> > these in a barrow in Dublin back when (as also an authentic brick of 7
> > Eccles St.)
> >
> > It's naturally interesting to compare the script with contemporary
> > writing in the age of classroom keyboards. Gone for ever the hard old
> > bench.
> >
> > You might safely infer that James Joyce is now the most famous Irishman
> > of all - at least in the time-frame in question - cos his 'line' is in
> > the banner of the website. Odd. He was not in Dublin in 1911. Oh well
> > ...!
> >
> >
> > Bruce.
> >
> > Dr. Bruce Stewart
> > Languages & Lit.
> > University of Ulster
> > Coleraine, Co. Derry
> > N. Ireland BT52 1SA
> > www.ricorso.net
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
> > Behalf Of Carmel McCaffrey
> > Sent: 04 December 2007 15:10
> > To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> > Subject: [IR-D] National Archives of Ireland
> >
> >
> > The National Archives of Ireland are making census information availabl=
e
> >
> > online. The census of 1911 is now being put onto the web - the first
> > available is for Dublin 1911. The actual handwritten forms are shown.
> > Below is the link. To those Dubliners like me it has proved to be to b=
e
> >
> > a very sentimental journey. I can see my grandfather's - as a very
> > young man - and great grandmother's handwriting as they filled in their
> > forms for their families.
> >
> > Carmel
> >
> > http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/
> >
> >
>
> --
>
> Le gach dea ghu=ED
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Dr Dymphna Lonergan*
>
> *Professional Studies*
>
> Topic Convener Professional English; Professional English for Teachers;
> Professional English for Medical Scientists ENGL1001/A; ENGL1012; ENGL101=
3
>
>
>
> Topic convener Professional Writing PROF2010; Professional Writing for
> Teams PROF8000
>
>
>
> Topic convener The Story of Australian English ENGL7214
>
>
>
> Research interests: Irish settlement in South Australia; Irish language
> in Australia; Placenames Australia (Irish project)
>
>
>
> Publication: /Sounds Irish: The Irish language in Australia
> /http://www.lythrumpress.com.au
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "jjnmcg1[at]eircom.net"
Subject: Re: National Archives of Ireland
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Patrick, I am much intrigued by your reply=2E A related query=2E As=
the
last head of history in Notre Dame College Mount Pleasant before it became=

part of Liverpool Hope Univ=2E
I heard in the folklore of the college that the good nuns used to send
their brightest pupils on what became known as the "Blue Stocking Boat"
from Holyhead to Dublin to get their degrees from TCD for a price from the=

Provost- presumably they had passed their exams but could not supplicate
for their degrees in that period=2E I had intended to look into the colleg=
e
archives years ago but xvith cent=2EIrish history took over=2E Any light=3F=

John McGurk

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Patrick Maume pmaume[at]GOOGLEMAIL=2ECOM
Date: Fri, 7 Dec 2007 12:47:09 +0000
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL=2EAC=2EUK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] National Archives of Ireland


From: Patrick Maume
The Royal University of Ireland, a federal body which existed from 1881
until the National University of Ireland came into operation, was an
exams-only body (it subsidised the Catholic University College in Stephen'=
s
Green and the Queens Colleges by appointing some of their staff as Fellows=

of the RUI)=2E
Since you did not need to attend a constituent college in order to sit R=
UI
examinations, quite a few secondary schools (such as Blackrock and
Clongowes) had "collegiate sections" in which older pupils were taught
classes with a view to sitting the RUI examinations=2E I presume that St=2E=

Enda's had such a section, hence the "undergraduates"=2E
BTW here's an interesting counterfactual=2E When the RUI was set up,
Archbishop Walsh of Dublin took the view that the "Catholic" fellowships
should be divided among the "Catholic colleges" rather than being reserved=

for University College=2E The Jesuits succeeded in defeating this by argu=
ing
that the only way to have a viable third-level institution was to
concentrate resources; Walsh resigned from the RUI governing body after hi=
s
proposal to give a fellowship to the headmaster of Blackrock was defeated=2E=

The counterfactual is this: if Walsh's policy had prevailed, might it
have led to the development of several small "teaching only" Catholic
3rd-level institutions run by the same religious orders which ran the
schools, as there are in America=3F I suspect not, because (a) there woul=
dn't
be the economic base/demand for degrees from such colleges as there was in=

America (b) such institutions would have been at a permanent disadvantage
against TCD; the Catholic authorities wanted an university that could
plausibly be seen as a rival to TCD or even (in Newman's more imaginative
moments) to Oxbridge!
Best wishes,
Patrick

On Dec 7, 2007 7:57 AM, MacEinri, Piaras wrote:

> Hello Dymphna
>
> I think there is a little confusion here=2E As far as I can make out the=

> reference to 'f=F3-ch=E9imidhe, iolsgoil n=E1isi=FAnta' (undergraduate, =
National
> University i=2Ee=2E UCD in this case; modern spelling fo-ch=E9im=ED, Iol=
scoil
> N=E1isi=FAnta) is only to the teacher ('oide') i=2Ee=2E the first person=
on the
> list, =C9amonn =D3 Tuathail=2E The rest are all described as 'mac l=E9ig=
hinn'
> (modern spelling mac l=E9inn), or student i=2Ee=2E second level student =
or
> pupil=2E Argentina is entered as 'T=EDr an Airgid'=2E
>
> The really interesting point is that the entries are in Irish in the fir=
st
> place and were presumably accepted=2E It would be interesting to know if=
the
> same thing happened for Welsh and Scots Gaelic in the 1911 Census in
> Britain=2E
>
> Piaras
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List on behalf of Dymphna Lonergan
> Sent: Thu 12/6/2007 10:43 PM
> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL=2EAC=2EUK
> Subject: Re: [IR-D] National Archives of Ireland
>
> They are all 'fo ceimire', undergraduates=2E The words next to Bulfin's
> name, mar leanann, are the equivalent of 'ditto'=2E Bulfin was born in
> Argentina tir an Airgintin=2E I'm probably using modern spelling as I'm
> not good at distinguishing those old Ss and Rs=2E
>
> Murray, Edmundo wrote:
> > I found very interesting the list of pupils in Padraig Pearse's school=
,
> > St=2E Enda's, under the same NLI website=2E
> > (http://www=2Ecensus=2Enationalarchives=2Eie/reels/nai000133808/)
> >
> > Could any Irish-language specialist be so kind to tell me what are the=

> > inscriptions under "Rank, Profession or standing" and "Where Born" for=

> > the entry # 2, Eamonn Bulfin=3F
> >
> > Thanks very much,
> >
> > Edmundo Murray
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL=2EAC=2EUK]=
On
> > Behalf Of Bruce Stewart
> > Sent: 06 December 2007 15:20
> > To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL=2EAC=2EUK
> > Subject: Re: [IR-D] National Archives of Ireland
> >
> >
> > Great project by the NLI! I'm adding it straightaway to the Gateway in=

> > Ricorso (try it! - http://www=2Ericorso=2Enet/rx/gateway/index=2Ehtm -=
under
> > Catalogues)=2E
> >
> > Errors do creep in, though - even at NLI=2E Like Carmel, I checked for=
a
> > Dublin grandparent - Albert le Brocquy (son of one Louis and father of=

> > another) and found the index lists the family name as Le Broequy [sic]=
=2E
> >
> > The housemaid Mary Kelly cited on the return was the original of the
> > Dublin story about the 'general' who left briefly to get married and
> > returned after 5 days to resume her job, saying only "Men is divils" a=
nd
> > not a word more about the matter=2E
> >
> > Most of these documents were written up using the famous "J" pen (stee=
l
> > nib) an example of which Bloom has on his dresser=2E I picked up a box=
of
> > these in a barrow in Dublin back when (as also an authentic brick of 7=

> > Eccles St=2E)
> >
> > It's naturally interesting to compare the script with contemporary
> > writing in the age of classroom keyboards=2E Gone for ever the hard ol=
d
> > bench=2E
> >
> > You might safely infer that James Joyce is now the most famous Irishma=
n
> > of all - at least in the time-frame in question - cos his 'line' is in=

> > the banner of the website=2E Odd=2E He was not in Dublin in 1911=2E Oh=
well
> > =2E=2E=2E!
> >
> >
> > Bruce=2E
> >
> > Dr=2E Bruce Stewart
> > Languages & Lit=2E
> > University of Ulster
> > Coleraine, Co=2E Derry
> > N=2E Ireland BT52 1SA
> > www=2Ericorso=2Enet
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL=2EAC=2EUK]=
On
> > Behalf Of Carmel McCaffrey
> > Sent: 04 December 2007 15:10
> > To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL=2EAC=2EUK
> > Subject: [IR-D] National Archives of Ireland
> >
> >
> > The National Archives of Ireland are making census information availab=
le
> >
> > online=2E The census of 1911 is now being put onto the web - the firs=
t
> > available is for Dublin 1911=2E The actual handwritten forms are show=
n=2E
> > Below is the link=2E To those Dubliners like me it has proved to be t=
o be
> >
> > a very sentimental journey=2E I can see my grandfather's - as a very
> > young man - and great grandmother's handwriting as they filled in thei=
r
> > forms for their families=2E
> >
> > Carmel
> >
> > http://www=2Ecensus=2Enationalarchives=2Eie/
> >
> >
>
> --
>
> Le gach dea ghu=ED
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *Dr Dymphna Lonergan*
>
> *Professional Studies*
>
> Topic Convener Professional English; Professional English for Teachers;
> Professional English for Medical Scientists ENGL1001/A; ENGL1012; ENGL10=
13
>
>
>
> Topic convener Professional Writing PROF2010; Professional Writing for
> Teams PROF8000
>
>
>
> Topic convener The Story of Australian English ENGL7214
>
>
>
> Research interests: Irish settlement in South Australia; Irish language
> in Australia; Placenames Australia (Irish project)
>
>
>
> Publication: /Sounds Irish: The Irish language in Australia
> /http://www=2Elythrumpress=2Ecom=2Eau
>
>
>
>
>
>
>


--------------------------------------------------------------------
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Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: D C Rose
Subject: Origin of the term Black '47
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Patrick FitzGerald suspects North American origin before 1870, and this may
well apply to '47, the worst famine year, but the application of 'Black' was
surely common enough - the Black Death comes particularly to mind.

David

--
D.C. Rose
1 rue Gutenberg
75015 Paris
www.oscholars.com

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Don MacRaild
Subject: Origin of the term 'Black '47'
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Black 47: I remember reading, in Colin Holmes's, John Bull's Island, a
snippet from George Bernard Shaw's Man and Superman. I've been having spam
problems, so perhaps this has already come up. But Shaw uses the 'Black '47'
control in a conversation between Malone and Violet:



MALONE. [.]. Me father died of starvation in Ireland in the black 47. Maybe
youve heard of it?

VIOLET. The Famine?

MALONE [with smouldering passion] No, the starvation. When a country is
full o food, and exporting it, there can be no famine. Me father was starved
dead; and I was starved out to America in me mother's arms [.]





Don MacRaild

University of Ulster

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick Maume
Subject: Re: Origin of the term 'Black '47'
In-Reply-To:
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From: Patrick Maume
In relation to the use of "black" in reference to Protestants:
(1) I believe the term "black Protestant" was used at various times by
Catholics to refer to Protestants anywhere in Ireland (usually with
connontations that the person so described was specially bigoted - the
analogy may be with burning)
(2) The term "blackmouth" was used as a derogatory description for
Presbyterians by Church of Ireland members as well as Catholics - cf JM
Barkley's autobiography title "Blackmouth and dissenter".
Best wishes,
Patrick
On Dec 7, 2007 3:11 PM, Robert Grace wrote:

> from Robert J. Grace
> Universit=E9 Laval, Qu=E9bec
>
> I have no documentary evidence for this and I agree that the blight made
> the
> potatoes black but I have heard that the bodies of people who died of
> typhus
> that year turned a blackish colour shortly after death.
> Robert
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Patrick Fitzgerald"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 6:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [IR-D] Origin of the term 'Black '47'
>
>
> Paddy,
> Yes I thought of those works but could not find any discussion of the
> chosen
> title which might lead to the origins of the term. I agree with you on th=
e
> semantics of Black and I suspect an origin in North America, possibly
> before
> 1870, but thanks for putting the query out and for sharing your own
> thoughts
> with me. I should try Chris Morash as you suggest.
> Many thanks,
> Paddy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
> Behalf
> Of Patrick O'Sullivan
> Sent: 07 December 2007 10:51
> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Subject: [IR-D] Origin of the term 'Black '47'
>
> Paddy F.
>
> I should apologise - I should not have allowed this message through
> without
> seeking clarification.
>
> For example, my own impulse would be to take down books by Cormac O Grada
> and Frank Neal who have used the phrase in titles - and see what they hav=
e
> to say. But presumably you have already done that.
>
> I would see the phrase as arising out of normal use of the English word
> 'black' to mean baneful, disastrous, sinister (OED) - see the long
> sequence
> of black days we have had in recent economic history. Think of Carleton,
> The Black Prophet.
>
> As an aside, I have been criticised in discussion for using the phrase,
> Black '47, because I was thereby continuing to associate the word 'black'
> with something sinister. I was quoting a book title. I did wonder at
> that
> point when exactly the phrase began to be used - and obviously thought of
> C19th rhetoric.
>
> The phrase was clearly current at the beginning of the C20th - it is used
> by
> Shaw in Man and Superman...
>
> MALONE. ...Me father died of starvation in Ireland in the black 47. Maybe
> youve heard of it.
> VIOLET. The Famine?
> MALONE [with smouldering passion] No, the starvation. When a country is
> full
> o food, and exporting it, there can be no famine. Me father was starved
> dead; and I was starved out to America in me mother's arms.
>
> Text from Bartleby.
>
> Thinking further about Dymphna Lonergan's thought... Cormac O Grada does
> look at the word dubh, black, in song and poetry. For example in Peatsai
> O
> Callanain, 'The White Potatoes', sometimes remembered as 'The Ballad of
> the
> Black Potatoes'.
>
> =D3 Gr=E1da, Cormac. 1999. Black '47 and beyond. Princeton, N.J: Princeto=
n
> University Press, p. 217.
>
> It is indeed difficult to talk about what happens to the potatoes without
> using the word, black - when the fungus strikes, they go black.
>
> But I think we are looking at normal, English use of the word, black. It
> is
> easy to see that talk of 'that black year' would lead in time to talk of
> Black '47, as the need arose to specify which particular black year...
> But
> quite when that happened I do not know.
>
> Christopher Morash might know.
>
> Patrick O'Sullivan
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> To: IR-D Jiscmail
> Subject: Origin of the term 'Black '47'
>
> From: "Patrick Fitzgerald"
> To: "The Irish Diaspora Studies List"
> Cc: "Brian Lambkin"
>
> Paddy,
>
> We have a query you might float for us on the list.
>
> Does anyone have any information relating to the origin of the term 'Blac=
k
> '47'?
>
> Hope you are keeping well,
>
> Paddy Fitzgerald CMS UAFP
>
> ************************************************************************
>
> National Museums Northern Ireland comprises the Ulster Museum, Ulster Fol=
k
> and Transport Museum, Ulster American Folk Park, Armagh County Museum and
> W5.
>
> The Ulster Museum is currently closed for major redevelopment. Details o=
f
> the museum's programme of outreach activities during closure can be found
> at
> www.ulstermuseum.org.uk.
>
> All our other sites are open as normal.
>
>
> Any views expressed by the sender of this message are not necessarily
> those
> of the National Museums Northern Ireland. This email and any files
> transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or
> entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in
> error
> please notify the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your
> email software.
>
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>
> ************************************************************************
>

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Brian Lambkin
Subject: Re: Origin of the term 'Black '47'
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Patrick Maume strikes again, possibly!
=20
John Barkley on Blackmouth says:
That they were so-called because their mouths were stained black by =
eating blaeberries when forced to flee as fugitives during the Killing =
Times in Scotland is a myth and completely false. There is no evidence =
for such a use in any part of Scotland. The term is Irish in origin and =
its connotation is political. It refers to those whose sympathies lay =
with the ideals of social polity adn human rights in the American an =
French Revolutions. Eventually the epithet came to be applied to the =
whole presbyterian community. From around 1780 onwards:
=20
an ancient term of forthright abuse was seized by a section of the =
ascendency party, and flung at a body of people whom it had often =
reviled, and many of whom were ringleaders in the Rebellion itself.
=20
The aim of the Blackmouths was to establish unity and brotherhood among =
all the people of Ireland ... (1991, 10)
=20
... which is not to say that the 'myth' of black mouths from =
blaeberry-eating was not influential in the case of Black '47.
=20
Brian Lambkin

________________________________

From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List on behalf of Patrick Maume
Sent: Fri 12/7/2007 4:01 PM
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Origin of the term 'Black '47'



From: Patrick Maume
In relation to the use of "black" in reference to Protestants:
(1) I believe the term "black Protestant" was used at various times by
Catholics to refer to Protestants anywhere in Ireland (usually with
connontations that the person so described was specially bigoted - the
analogy may be with burning)
(2) The term "blackmouth" was used as a derogatory description for
Presbyterians by Church of Ireland members as well as Catholics - cf JM
Barkley's autobiography title "Blackmouth and dissenter".
Best wishes,
Patrick
On Dec 7, 2007 3:11 PM, Robert Grace wrote:

> from Robert J. Grace
> Universit=E9 Laval, Qu=E9bec
>
> I have no documentary evidence for this and I agree that the blight =
made
> the
> potatoes black but I have heard that the bodies of people who died of
> typhus
> that year turned a blackish colour shortly after death.
> Robert
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Patrick Fitzgerald"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 6:12 AM
> Subject: Re: [IR-D] Origin of the term 'Black '47'
>
>
> Paddy,
> Yes I thought of those works but could not find any discussion of the
> chosen
> title which might lead to the origins of the term. I agree with you on =
the
> semantics of Black and I suspect an origin in North America, possibly
> before
> 1870, but thanks for putting the query out and for sharing your own
> thoughts
> with me. I should try Chris Morash as you suggest.
> Many thanks,
> Paddy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
> Behalf
> Of Patrick O'Sullivan
> Sent: 07 December 2007 10:51
> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Subject: [IR-D] Origin of the term 'Black '47'
>
> Paddy F.
>
> I should apologise - I should not have allowed this message through
> without
> seeking clarification.
>
> For example, my own impulse would be to take down books by Cormac O =
Grada
> and Frank Neal who have used the phrase in titles - and see what they =
have
> to say. But presumably you have already done that.
>
> I would see the phrase as arising out of normal use of the English =
word
> 'black' to mean baneful, disastrous, sinister (OED) - see the long
> sequence
> of black days we have had in recent economic history. Think of =
Carleton,
> The Black Prophet.
>
> As an aside, I have been criticised in discussion for using the =
phrase,
> Black '47, because I was thereby continuing to associate the word =
'black'
> with something sinister. I was quoting a book title. I did wonder at
> that
> point when exactly the phrase began to be used - and obviously thought =
of
> C19th rhetoric.
>
> The phrase was clearly current at the beginning of the C20th - it is =
used
> by
> Shaw in Man and Superman...
>
> MALONE. ...Me father died of starvation in Ireland in the black 47. =
Maybe
> youve heard of it.
> VIOLET. The Famine?
> MALONE [with smouldering passion] No, the starvation. When a country =
is
> full
> o food, and exporting it, there can be no famine. Me father was =
starved
> dead; and I was starved out to America in me mother's arms.
>
> Text from Bartleby.
>
> Thinking further about Dymphna Lonergan's thought... Cormac O Grada =
does
> look at the word dubh, black, in song and poetry. For example in =
Peatsai
> O
> Callanain, 'The White Potatoes', sometimes remembered as 'The Ballad =
of
> the
> Black Potatoes'.
>
> =D3 Gr=E1da, Cormac. 1999. Black '47 and beyond. Princeton, N.J: =
Princeton
> University Press, p. 217.
>
> It is indeed difficult to talk about what happens to the potatoes =
without
> using the word, black - when the fungus strikes, they go black.
>
> But I think we are looking at normal, English use of the word, black. =
It
> is
> easy to see that talk of 'that black year' would lead in time to talk =
of
> Black '47, as the need arose to specify which particular black year...
> But
> quite when that happened I do not know.
>
> Christopher Morash might know.
>
> Patrick O'Sullivan
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> To: IR-D Jiscmail
> Subject: Origin of the term 'Black '47'
>
> From: "Patrick Fitzgerald"
> To: "The Irish Diaspora Studies List"
> Cc: "Brian Lambkin"
>
> Paddy,
>
> We have a query you might float for us on the list.
>
> Does anyone have any information relating to the origin of the term =
'Black
> '47'?
>
> Hope you are keeping well,
>
> Paddy Fitzgerald CMS UAFP
>
> =
************************************************************************
>
> National Museums Northern Ireland comprises the Ulster Museum, Ulster =
Folk
> and Transport Museum, Ulster American Folk Park, Armagh County Museum =
and
> W5.
>
> The Ulster Museum is currently closed for major redevelopment. =
Details of
> the museum's programme of outreach activities during closure can be =
found
> at
> www.ulstermuseum.org.uk.
>
> All our other sites are open as normal.
>
>
> Any views expressed by the sender of this message are not necessarily
> those
> of the National Museums Northern Ireland. This email and any files
> transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual =
or
> entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in
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> please notify the sender immediately by using the reply facility in =
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************************************************************************

National Museums Northern Ireland comprises the Ulster Museum, Ulster Folk and Transport Museum, Ulster American Folk Park, Armagh County Museum and W5.

The Ulster Museum is currently closed for major redevelopment. Details of the museum's programme of outreach activities during closure can be found at www.ulstermuseum.org.uk.

All our other sites are open as normal.


Any views expressed by the sender of this message are not necessarily those of the National Museums Northern Ireland. This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your email software.

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Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Liam Clarke
Subject: Re: Origin of the term 'Black '47'
In-Reply-To: A
MIME-Version: 1.0
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When I was growing up in Dundalk in the fifties the phrase 'black
Protestant' was used as a general terms of abuse: I took it to mean that
their souls were 'blackened' perhaps a natural attribution of childhood.
It wasn't said that often and to my memory did not get said as an
expression of a wider or deeper hatred or distrust: it wouod be said not
so much with venom but as a given

Liam Clarke=20

=20

-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
Behalf Of Carmel McCaffrey
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 4:33 PM
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Origin of the term 'Black '47'

Kerby,

I think the term is more ubiquitous than just the political connotation
associated with it - in my "mixed" upbringing [Catholic and Church of
Ireland] the term was also used to describe Ulster Presbyterians or any
non-conformists [including those in the south] who generally led was was
perceived as a "bleak" lifestyle: overly strict Sunday observance,
suspicion of Christmas as a hedonistic "unchristian" fraud, or what is
generally described as the suspicion that someone somewhere might be
enjoying themselves. I remember hearing one C of I relative saying that
he stayed in a guest house in Kerry but the owner was a "black
Protestant" who wouldn't allow the piano to be played on Sunday.

This of course was perception and contrasts with the Catholic south and
Good Friday. Those of us who grew up prior to the 1970s will remember
Good Friday as a bleak day in the south - everything shut down. Crossing
the border was a relief as shops, restaurants were all open and
thriving. No observance of a bleak Good Friday for the Ulster region.

Carmel


Kerby Miller wrote:
> What, if any, are the associations with phrases such "the Black North"

> or "Black Protestants"?
>
> I've heard some people argue that it's a generically sectarian term,=20
> used by some Irish Catholics to refer to any or all Protestants,=20
> particularly in Ulster (has the term ever been used to refer to Irish=20
> Protestants other than in Ulster),

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Elizabeth Malcolm
Subject: Origin of the Term 'Black '47'
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

To add to the list of examples of 'black' being used as an abusive label in Ireland:
policemen were often characterised as 'black' - especially in Irish. I've come
across examples of them being called 'black men', 'black soldiers', 'black pigs' and
also 'pig men'. And these examples go from the 1830s through to the 1900s, and come
mainly from the west and south west of the country. 'Black pigs' seems to have been
particularly popular, to the point that pictures of black pigs were used to ridicule
policemen - it was assumed the audience would be familiar with the connection
without need for explanation.

I'd assumed the use of 'black' probably related to police uniforms, which from the
1820s were very dark green, which could appear black from a distance, like the old
RUC uniforms. But perhaps it's more than this.

Also, as someone who took part in student demonstrations in the 1960s, I was amused
by the Irish so frequently calling policemen 'pigs'. I wondered if that originated
in Ireland, and was popularised in the USA, where so many policemen were Irish in
the late 19th and early 20th centuries.

Elizabeth
__________________________________________________
Professor Elizabeth Malcolm

Gerry Higgins Chair of Irish Studies
School of Historical Studies ~ University of Melbourne ~ Victoria, 3010, AUSTRALIA
Phone: +61-3-83443924 ~ Email: e.malcolm[at]unimelb.edu.au

President
Irish Studies Association of Australia and New Zealand (ISAANZ)
Website: http://isaanz.org
__________________________________________________

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Dymphna Lonergan
Subject: Re: National Archives of Ireland
In-Reply-To:
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Thanks for those clarifying points, Muiris. I take it you have young eyes.

Muiris Mag Ualghairg wrote:
> It's not 'mar leanann' but 'Mac L=E9ighinn' the pre-spelling reform spe=
lling
> of 'Mac L=E9inn' - a student. Also it doesn't look like 'f=F3-ch=E9imir=
e', with
> the 'h' added in to show the mutation, which marked with a dot above a
> letter in the pre-reformed spelling, as there is clearly a dot over th=
e
> letter before the final e. The letter looks like a Gaelic script 't' to=
me
> and the mutation would suggest that. The modern Irish 'Foch=E9im=ED' pl=
ural
> 'F=F3ch=E9imithe' means 'undergraduate' and 'undergraduates' respective=
ly, I
> think that it is quite save to take it that it is 'F=F3-ch=E9imithe'
> (modern 'F=F3ch=E9imithe'). Given that it is 'F=F3-ch=E9imithe', underg=
raduates, one
> wonders if some of the older students had already registered at the
> University or whether or not Pearse's school has some kind of relations=
hip
> with the university so that pupils in the school could take course towa=
rds
> their degrees before actually starting in the university. Does any one =
know
> the answer?
>
> The country is clearly described as 'T=EDr an Airgid' - 'the land of si=
lver' -
> not 'T=EDr an Airgint=EDn'. A quick search of Google brings up a refere=
nce to
> 'T=EDr an Airgid' being used for Argentina, see
> http://homepage.eircom.net/~eirenua/2001/may01/50yrsago.htm
>
> Muiris
>
>
>
>
>
> On 06/12/2007, Dymphna Lonergan wrot=
e:
> =20
>> They are all 'fo ceimire', undergraduates. The words next to Bulfin's
>> name, mar leanann, are the equivalent of 'ditto'. Bulfin was born in
>> Argentina tir an Airgintin. I'm probably using modern spelling as I'm
>> not good at distinguishing those old Ss and Rs.
>>
>> Murray, Edmundo wrote:
>> =20
>>> I found very interesting the list of pupils in Padraig Pearse's schoo=
l,
>>> St. Enda's, under the same NLI website.
>>> (http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000133808/)
>>>
>>> Could any Irish-language specialist be so kind to tell me what are th=
e
>>> inscriptions under "Rank, Profession or standing" and "Where Born" fo=
r
>>> the entry # 2, Eamonn Bulfin?
>>>
>>> Thanks very much,
>>>
>>> Edmundo Murray
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
>>> Behalf Of Bruce Stewart
>>> Sent: 06 December 2007 15:20
>>> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
>>> Subject: Re: [IR-D] National Archives of Ireland
>>>
>>>
>>> Great project by the NLI! I'm adding it straightaway to the Gateway i=
n
>>> Ricorso (try it! - http://www.ricorso.net/rx/gateway/index.htm - unde=
r
>>> Catalogues).
>>>
>>> Errors do creep in, though - even at NLI. Like Carmel, I checked for =
a
>>> Dublin grandparent - Albert le Brocquy (son of one Louis and father o=
f
>>> another) and found the index lists the family name as Le Broequy [sic=
].
>>>
>>> The housemaid Mary Kelly cited on the return was the original of the
>>> Dublin story about the 'general' who left briefly to get married and
>>> returned after 5 days to resume her job, saying only "Men is divils" =
and
>>> not a word more about the matter.
>>>
>>> Most of these documents were written up using the famous "J" pen (ste=
el
>>> nib) an example of which Bloom has on his dresser. I picked up a box =
of
>>> these in a barrow in Dublin back when (as also an authentic brick of =
7
>>> Eccles St.)
>>>
>>> It's naturally interesting to compare the script with contemporary
>>> writing in the age of classroom keyboards. Gone for ever the hard old
>>> bench.
>>>
>>> You might safely infer that James Joyce is now the most famous Irishm=
an
>>> of all - at least in the time-frame in question - cos his 'line' is i=
n
>>> the banner of the website. Odd. He was not in Dublin in 1911. Oh well
>>> ...!
>>>
>>>
>>> Bruce.
>>>
>>> Dr. Bruce Stewart
>>> Languages & Lit.
>>> University of Ulster
>>> Coleraine, Co. Derry
>>> N. Ireland BT52 1SA
>>> www.ricorso.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
>>> Behalf Of Carmel McCaffrey
>>> Sent: 04 December 2007 15:10
>>> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
>>> Subject: [IR-D] National Archives of Ireland
>>>
>>>
>>> The National Archives of Ireland are making census information availa=
ble
>>>
>>> online. The census of 1911 is now being put onto the web - the first
>>> available is for Dublin 1911. The actual handwritten forms are shown.
>>> Below is the link. To those Dubliners like me it has proved to be to=
be
>>>
>>> a very sentimental journey. I can see my grandfather's - as a very
>>> young man - and great grandmother's handwriting as they filled in the=
ir
>>> forms for their families.
>>>
>>> Carmel
>>>
>>> http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/
>>>
>>>
>>> =20
>> --
>>
>> Le gach dea ghu=ED
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *Dr Dymphna Lonergan*
>>
>> *Professional Studies*
>>
>> Topic Convener Professional English; Professional English for Teachers=
;
>> Professional English for Medical Scientists ENGL1001/A; ENGL1012; ENGL=
1013
>>
>>
>>
>> Topic convener Professional Writing PROF2010; Professional Writing for
>> Teams PROF8000
>>
>>
>>
>> Topic convener The Story of Australian English ENGL7214
>>
>>
>>
>> Research interests: Irish settlement in South Australia; Irish languag=
e
>> in Australia; Placenames Australia (Irish project)
>>
>>
>>
>> Publication: /Sounds Irish: The Irish language in Australia
>> /http://www.lythrumpress.com.au
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> =20
>
> =20

--=20

Le gach dea ghu=ED

=20

=20

=20

*Dr Dymphna Lonergan*

*Professional Studies*

Topic Convener Professional English; Professional English for Teachers;=20
Professional English for Medical Scientists ENGL1001/A; ENGL1012; ENGL101=
3

=20

Topic convener Professional Writing PROF2010; Professional Writing for=20
Teams PROF8000

=20

Topic convener The Story of Australian English ENGL7214

=20

Research interests: Irish settlement in South Australia; Irish language=20
in Australia; Placenames Australia (Irish project)

=20

Publication: /Sounds Irish: The Irish language in Australia=20
/http://www.lythrumpress.com.au

=20

=20

=20

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: TOC, Political Geography, Volume 26, Issue 8,
Pages 877-982 (November 2007),
Partition and the reconfiguration of the Irish Border
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

This Special issue of the journal

Political Geography
Partition and the reconfiguration of the Irish Border

Will interest many IR-D members.

P.O'S.


Political Geography
Copyright C 2007 Elsevier Ltd. All rights reserved

Volume 26, Issue 8, Pages 877-982 (November 2007

Partition and the reconfiguration of the Irish Border
Edited by John Coakley and Liam O'Dowd

Editorial Board
Page IFC

The transformation of the Irish border
Pages 877-885
John Coakley and Liam O'Dowd

Abstract

This article introduces a special issue dealing with partition and the
reconfiguration of the Irish border. Notwithstanding southern nationalist
refusal to accept the partition of Ireland in 1921, the border gradually
consolidated its position. The article describes the transformation in
relations across the Irish border which first found a place on the political
agenda in the early 1970s, but which was given full institutional expression
only following the Good Friday agreement of 1998. This new configuration has
two aspects, which seem at first sight to be in conflict with each other: it
marks a new, unreserved acceptance of the legitimacy of the border by Irish
nationalists (though moderated by British agreement to end partition if the
two parts of Ireland so wish), and it is characterised by a significant
growth in public sector bodies which span the border.

Analysing partition: Definition, classification and explanation
Pages 886-908
Brendan O'Leary

Deducing rationales and political tactics in the partitioning of Ireland,
1912-1925
Pages 909-933
K.J. Rankin

Imperialism and nationalism: The Home Rule struggle and border creation in
Ireland, 1885-1925
Pages 934-950
James Anderson and Liam O'Dowd

Winning while losing: The Apprentice Boys of Derry walk their beat
Pages 951-967
Shaul Cohen

Reconceptualising local labour markets in the context of cross-border and
transnational labour flows: The Irish example
Pages 968-981
Ian Shuttleworth

Shortcut URL to the TOC page:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/09626298

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Article,
An assessment of the Irish population for large-scale genetic
mapping studies involving epilepsy and other complex diseases.
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Resource: PubMed

Title: An assessment of the Irish population for large-scale genetic
mapping studies involving epilepsy and other complex diseases.

Author: O'Dushlaine, Colm T
Add.Author / Editor: Stanton, Alice
Eriksson, Kai
Croke, David T
Dolan, Ciara
Weale, Michael E
Gibson, Rachel A
Kalviainen, Reetta
Kantanen, Anne-Mari

Citation: Eur J Hum Genet. Date: 2007 Oct 31,
Year: 2007

Abstract: The recent completion of the International HapMap Project
has rapidly advanced our understanding of linkage disequilibrium (LD) in the
human genome. Today, tagging SNPs (tSNPs) can be quickly and easily selected
and consequently HapMap data are regularly applied to both small- and
large-scale genetic mapping studies. However, to correctly interpret the
application of HapMap-derived tSNPs in a genetic mapping study, an
understanding of how well HapMap data represents LD in the study population
is critical. The Irish population had not previously been characterised in
this way. Here, we do so using a set of 4424 SNPs selected from 279
candidate genes for epilepsy genotyped across 1118 healthy individuals from
the Irish, British, Finnish and Australian populations. By considering the
Irish population alongside surrounding European populations, our results
confirm that the HapMap European-derived population accurately estimates
patterning of LD in European descent populations. The Irish population
appears notably well matched to the European HapMap population, and is
markedly similar to the neighbouring British population. Although we were
unable to detect significant substructure within the Irish population (a
favourable result for genetic mapping), methods for controlling
stratification should always be incorporated.
This analysis therefore confirms that the genetic architecture of the Irish
population is well suited to the study of complex traits and that tSNPs
selected using the HapMap data can be confidently applied to the Irish
population.

European Journal of Human Genetics advance online publication, 31 October
2007; doi:10.1038/sj.ejhg.5201938.
ISSN: 1018-4813
Note: aheadofprint
IDNumber: DOI: 10.1038/sj.ejhg.5201938
PMID: 17971835
Address: 1Neuropsychiatric Genetics Research Group, Department of
Psychiatry, Trinity College Dublin, Ireland.
Type: JOURNAL ARTICLE
Language: ENG

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Sarah Morgan
Subject: Re: Origin of the term 'Black '47'
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
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Kerby,

my family is from north Carlow/west Wicklow and the term 'black =
Protestant' was used there too - at least when I was a teenager (1980s). =
There was (and is) an identifiable Protestant community in that area of =
Ireland.

Some people used it to refer to Protestants who would avoid speaking =
to/socialising with Catholics - my mum (who is English) was given this =
explanation by the son of a Protestant woman who spent a happy afternoon =
with her, assuming that because she had an English accent she had to be =
Protestant herself (she was until we moved to Ireland when we all became =
Catholic).=20

The sectarian usage was also there too, and the term 'Black North' was =
quite common in the 80s - I remember a couple of people telling me they =
couldn't believe I was going there when I went to Queen's for my =
undergraduate degree. But I haven't heard either of these terms in a =
long time - although as I now only visit, my experience won't be at all =
authoritative. However, the Protestant church in my home town does get =
attacked (windows smashed etc) at least once a year it seems, and the =
only obvious explanation is sectarianism - as the Catholic church =
doesn't experience the same vandalism.

Carmel might want to know that I spent this Good Friday in Castlebar Co =
Mayo - I had totally forgotten that it was a 'black day' - we struggled =
to find somewhere to eat because everywhere was closed, apart from one =
or two hotels. My parents couldn't believe that I had forgotten too, so =
it is obviously still customary. And indeed our B&B landlady when we =
told her we had forgotten that everything was closed said 'oh yes, it's =
a black day'.

And I have a question - I remember quite vividly at school being told =
that a black man would be 'fear gorm' (blue man) because 'an fear dubh' =
was reserved for the devil. But dictionaries don't come up with this at =
all. My Irish is terrible, so I'm quite prepared to believe I've got =
this wrong - but I would be interested if any of the Irish =
speakers/scholars on this list could cast a light on this usage, even =
only to tell me it's something I've misremembered!

Thanks, Sarah.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Carmel McCaffrey=20
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK=20
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Origin of the term 'Black '47'


Kerby,

I think the term is more ubiquitous than just the political =
connotation=20
associated with it - in my "mixed" upbringing [Catholic and Church =
of=20
Ireland] the term was also used to describe Ulster Presbyterians or =
any=20
non-conformists [including those in the south] who generally led was =
was=20
perceived as a "bleak" lifestyle: overly strict Sunday observance,=20
suspicion of Christmas as a hedonistic "unchristian" fraud, or what is =

generally described as the suspicion that someone somewhere might be=20
enjoying themselves. I remember hearing one C of I relative saying =
that=20
he stayed in a guest house in Kerry but the owner was a "black=20
Protestant" who wouldn't allow the piano to be played on Sunday.

This of course was perception and contrasts with the Catholic south =
and=20
Good Friday. Those of us who grew up prior to the 1970s will remember =

Good Friday as a bleak day in the south - everything shut down. =
Crossing=20
the border was a relief as shops, restaurants were all open and=20
thriving. No observance of a bleak Good Friday for the Ulster region.

Carmel


Kerby Miller wrote:
> What, if any, are the associations with phrases such "the Black =
North"=20
> or "Black Protestants"?
>
> I've heard some people argue that it's a generically sectarian term, =

> used by some Irish Catholics to refer to any or all Protestants,=20
> particularly in Ulster (has the term ever been used to refer to =
Irish=20
> Protestants other than in Ulster),

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "William Mulligan Jr."
Subject: Possible Book on Irish Miners
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Some time ago, I queried the Irish Diaspora list about interest in a =
volume
on Irish miners in the Diaspora. Shortly thereafter, two other book
projects that had been simmering required my more immediate attention. =
They
are both out now and I am returning to this idea with enthusiasm. I =
will be
contacting those who responded individually.=20

If you are interested in participating, please let me know. I see the =
book
in these terms:

Focus on hard rock miners, not coal miners or quarry workers.=20

Essays of 30 pages (7500 words) maximum, most closer to 25 pages.=20

Several chapters on mining/miners in Ireland.=20

As full coverage of the Diaspora -- US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand,
South Africa, continental Europe, et al. as the research currently being
done allows.

I will write the introduction, edit the volume, and write an essay on =
Irish
miners in Michigan.=20

If you are interested, I'd like to have submissions of expression of
interest, title of proposed essay, and 200 word abstract by March 1.=20

I will contact publishers, with the idea of final copy submitted within =
12
months of agreement.=20

Please let me know if you are interested or can suggest people that =
might
be. If you have any question, also, just let me know. =20


Bill
=20
William H. Mulligan, Jr., Ph.D.
Professor of History
Graduate Program Coordinator=20
Murray State University
Murray KY 42071-3341 USA=20
Office: 1-270-809-6571
Fax: 1-270-809-6587=20
=20
=20