Forwarded on behalf of Leon Litvack...

Dear friends,

Due to increased demand, the Four Courts Press offer on _Ireland
in the Nineteenth Century: Regional Identity_ has been extended
to EVERYONE -- not just members of SSNCI.

So, ANYONE out there who wishes to purchase a copy at £20 may
now do so.

The web page has been altered to reflect this development:
http://www.qub.ac.uk/english/socs/fcp-offer.htm

Many thanks to Four Courts for their consideration!!

Please note that the Press will NOT be issuing a paperback
version of this title.

All good wishes,

Leon

----------------------
Leon Litvack
Senior Lecturer
School of English
Queen's University of Belfast
Belfast BT7 1NN
Northern Ireland, UK

L.Litvack[at]qub.ac.uk
http://www.qub.ac.uk/english/prometheus.html

Tel. +44-(0)2890-273266
Fax +44-(0)2890-314615

From: S.Morgan[at]unl.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Ir-D Transcomm News


Dear Patrick,

A (hurried) response to John Hickey's comment on the failure to include
Irish
people in studies of diaspora communities that 'Who wants, other than
us, to
investigate the history and development of very successful settlers in
the
diaspora?'

Although it is a general perception that Irish migrants and their
descendants
have readily settled in to their host societies, particularly the USA
and
Britain, with ease, there is some evidence from Britain, anyway, to
contradict
this image of Irish migrants as very 'successful'.

The Hickman and Walter report to the CRE in 1997 used data from the 1991
Census
to illustrate that Irish born people resident in Britain were likely to
be
clustered in social class V and were more likely than the 'white' group
to
experience unemployment. The pattern of data for Irish-born respondents
to the
1991 census parallels the experiences of African Caribbean respondents,
although the Irish category does not include second or subsequent
generations.
Examination of 1991 census data for the greater London area underlines
this
trend. (Migration since the 1950s has increasingly concentrated on
London and
the South East of England.) J.A. Jackson's research (1963) also showed
how
Irish born migrants were marginalised in the British/English economy. In
addition to this, there is plenty of evidence demonstrating that Irish
born
people in Britain also experience marginalisation in the housing sector,
are
racially discriminated against in the workplace and that they experience
ill
health which can partly be attributed to being Irish migrants in Britain

At present, there is very little data on second generation Irish people
living
in Britain, and none (that I know of, if anyone does, please let me
know!) on
subsequent generations. The limited data that there is suggests that, in
particular, second generation Irish people living in Britain are likely
to
experience patterns of ill health which mirror those experienced by
their
parents' generation.

In Britain, there is an assumption that Irish migrants arrive in Britain
'oven-ready' for British culture. This assumption of ready and
unproblematic
assimilation mitigates against the recognition of second and subsequent
generations of Irish people. But without subsequent generations then
there is
no Irish 'ethnic group'. This is compounded by the view that Irish
migration is
a thing of the past, which has been overtaken by migration from the New
Commonwealth and Pakistan since 1945 and by the so-called refugee
'crisis' of
the late 1990s/early 2000s. Although this view is changing, it still
pertains
to some degree. For example, the Commission on Multi Ethnic Britain was
slow to
include the experiences of Irish people in its deliberations; discussion
of the
position of ethnic minorities after the publication of the MacPherson
report
has tended to concentrate on African Caribbean and South East Asian
ethnic
groups.

I would be really interested to hear comments from colleagues in USA and
Australia, or other destinations. My final comment would be that even
were the
experience of the Irish diaspora universally one of success, this is not
a
reason to exclude the Irish experience from a thorough study of
diasporic
experiences.

Sarah Morgan,
Irish Studies Centre,
Univesrity of North London.

From: "Brian McGinn"
Subject: Re: Ir-D Chronicon

Patrick,

Many thanks for the CHRONICON LINK to Gillian Ni Ghabhann's study of
19th C
Gaelic Revival in US.
http://www.ucc.ie/chronicon/nigh2fra.htm
Her primary sources for post-Famine US attitudes towards Irish make for
fascinating reading.

Gillian's passing reference (paragraph 4) to fact that most pre-Famine
emigrants came from English-speaking or bilingual areas of eastern and
central Ireland is undoubtedly true for the US. But in focusing on the
mainland, this approach may miss important pre-Famine evidence on the
peripheries.

In my ongoing trawl of Caribbean materials, I find increasing evidence
of
Irish usage in the Leeward Islands. Here, the regional origins of 17th
C
Irish populations would more closely match those of Gillian's
post-Famine
US emigrants, i.e. heavily weighted toward Irish-speaking Munster and
Connaught. Further south, in the Amazon basin, there's an interesting
1629
example of Irishmen using their native tongue to pass coded messages
back
and forth. Just like, in the days before computerized encryption, the US
military employed Native Americans (Navajo 'Code Talkers' in the
Pacific,
Comanche in Europe) during WWII.

On the northern periphery, there are credible reports that by 1780
two-thirds of the inhabitants of St. John's, Newfoundland, were
Irish-speaking. Their origins in the still Irish-speaking southeastern
counties centered on Waterford are detailed in Aidan O'Hara's published
works. Also a recent TG4 documentary by Donald Wylde, titled An Boithrin
Glas.

Given the well-established remigration of Irish from Newfoundland to US,
and the less well-established but hypothetical remigration to the North
American mainland from West Indies, it appears that a broader approach
encompassing the entire Western Hemisphere might be more useful,
certainly
for pre-Famine period.

Brian McGinn
Alexandria, Virginia

From: Alex Peach [mailto:Alex[at]p555.freeserve.co.uk]

RE: The almost invisibility of the Irish Diaspora within Robin Cohen's The International
Library of Studies of Migration...

I studied under Robin Cohen and Steve Vertovec at the University of Warwick and I suspect
that the reason for the neglect of Irish Diaspora stuff is the focus of their respective
disciplines and the perspective of migration studies within the ESRC establishment as
being about Blacks and Asians.

Robin is a great sociologist, but sociology is too instrumental in its remit (and funding
etc..) to be anything other than focused upon "Problem Groups". An historical perspective
is also something of a mystery to the technobots at Warwick. Also Steve V's
anthropological and - dare I say it - "American perspective" draws him towards the late
20thC analysis of Race and Ethnicity being about colour. (I'm sure he would deny this but
the Centre for Research in Ethnic Relations at Warwick has very little in the way of Irish
resources, as compared to material about post war migrants from the New Commonwealth for
instance, and the MA in Race and Ethnic Studies I took there had almost no Irish
dimension. In any case anthropology as a discipline is a bit dodgy anyway, what with its
imperial connections and historically ethnocentric positioning...

On the other hand... I reviewed Vol.4 of The International Library for the journal,
Immigrants and Minorities... it has two articles on the Irish in 19thC Britain. So that's
something I suppose.....

Alex Peach
de Montfort University

From: DanCas1[at]aol.com
Subject: Re:The Shanty Irish of the northeast

In a message dated 1/21/00 5:57:54 AM Pacific Standard Time,
irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk writes:

>

A Chairde:
The problem is that many of these academic experts on the Irish-American
Diaspora are themselves from "lace curtain" Irish backgrounds and parishes
and barely aware of their poorer "cousins," who are still quite numerous in
cities like New York, Brooklyn, Jersey City, Albany, Troy, Providence,
Buffalo, Philadelphia, Chicago, St. Louis, and even the so-called suburbs of
Long Island, NY The observation that the Irish Americans have all
miraculously shape-shifted into a college-educated upper middle class elite
since War World II is easily belied by the most casual observations in a host
of urban, mostly northeastern city neighborhoods.

While it is no doubt true that 5-6 generations after the massive famine
emigration Irish-Americans have finally made huge steps up the economic
ladder, it may surprise many scholars that sizable numbers still perch
precariously on the lower rungs.

I am reminded of a Boston College, Ph.D. I met recently who was finishing up
her thesis on racial attitudes within the Irish-American Diaspora. I
mentioned to her that while living in Boston for several years she must have
spent a fair amount of time in Southie and Charlestown conducting research.
She looked at me incredulously and said that most of the students in her
department prided themselves on rarely venturing any further than the
hallowed precincts of Cambridge, and assiduously avoided the polluted
projects of South Boston.

As some very wise person said a long time ago, even within Irish-America "the
poor are always with us." They are just not to be found in the hallowed halls
of academe, but rather often in neighborhoods that are a sometimes a mere bus
or subway ride away.

I will be glad to provide any list members interested in this topic a list of
at least 10 New York and Brooklyn neighborhoods where the allegedly extinct
shanty Irish can be found in droves. I will even give them the phone numbers
of some of my cousins.

I also heartily recommend the book "All Souls- A Family Story from Southie"
by Michael Patrick Mac Donald (Beacon Press, 1999) as a handy guide book for
any proposed expeditions into the dark precincts of Shanty Irish America.

The above, of course, does not even begin to deal with the "lost Celts of the
South," descendants of prefamine Irish immigrants hidden away in the dirt
poor hollers and hills of West Virginia, North Carolina, and Arkansas.


Happy New Year,

Daniel Cassidy

From: "Matt O'Brien"
Subject: Re: Ir-D Shanty Irish


I agree that there has been serious neglect of urban areas of
working-class Irish neighborhoods by in the academic discussion of Irish
America. Marjorie Fellows briefly mentions working-class Irish Americans
left behind during the general movement to the suburbs in _Irish Americans:
Identity and Assimilation_ (1979), but the persistance of WASP-Irish
American antagonisms in New England makes the "poor Irish" that much more
noticable in Southie, Charlestown, and Dorchester. (By the way, for a film
with great insight into the claustrophobic atmosphere of Irish-American
Charlestown, I recommend "Monument Ave." -1998, I think.)
J. Anthony Lukas' _Common Ground_ also gives a more even-handed view of
the 'Townie reaction to the busing program in Boston in the mid-1970s than
you'll get from most press accounts. I know that Lukas was still criticized
in Southie, but it seems to me that his juxtaposition of WASP,
Black-American, and Irish-American perspectives breaks down the crisis by
providing sympathetic views of WASP good intentions, Black-American poverty
and injustice, and working-class Irish-American defensiveness. (Lukas also
describes the class tensions involved: the ill-conceived plan was drawn up
by an upper-middle-class Irish-Catholic judge, Paul Garrity.) I also
recommend McGreevy (sp?) recent work, _Parish Boundaries_, for it's insight
into the situation for ethnic American Catholics after the Great Migration
of Black Americans northward to the cities following World War I. McGreevy
is no apologist for racism, but he's not dismissive of the general neglect
or condescension which dominates most academic work on working-class ethnic
Catholics in the northeastern U.S. cities.
I know that equating the situation of Irish Catholics in Northern Ireland
with Black Americans is a tired and simplistic argument, but I do think
there is a striking similarity between working-class Irish-American ethnics
in American cities and working-class Irish Protestants in Belfast and Derry.
While their defensive reactions have often taken some very ugly forms, it is
short-sighted to presume that it is necessary to acknowledging perspectives
of each group, which is not the same as providing an apologia for racial or
sectarian prejudice.


Matt O'Brien
mjobrien[at]students.wisc.edu

From Patrick O'Sullivan

The Irish Medical Journal maintains a Web presence, which is useful for those who feel an
urge to track the thinking of the medical profession within Ireland...

Here are thoughts of F Bowers, Chief Reporter, Irish Medical News, on that problematic
word 'schizophrenia'...

http://www.imj.ie/issue15/Editorial05.htm

March 1999 Volume 92 Number 2

EXTRACT BEGINS>>>
Has the media influenced public attitudes to schizophrenia?
Schizophrenia is a widely-known but often misused term to describe various psychotic
states. Unlike the popular perception, it has nothing to do with 'split personality' but
refers to a condition where a person has difficulty in distinguishing what is real and
what is imaginary, making them behave bizarrely.
People with schizophrenia may have dramatic mood swings but they are rarely violent.
However, on the rare occasions when they are, these instances often receive widespread
media publicity. The primary offenders are the British tabloids.
My interest in this subject stems from the fact that a close friend has had the condition
for over 20 years and I, along with other journalists, doctors, and healthcare experts, am
participating on a committee aimed at developing greater understanding of schizophrenia in
Ireland.
EXTRACT ENDS>>>


On the other hand, you might visit the Web pages of 'Liam', 'An Irish Man in London' -
here are his thoughtful comments on Irish mental health issues
http://www.kraffe.com/liam/diary2.htm

P.O'S.


- --
Patrick O'Sullivan
Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Irish-Diaspora list
Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/

Personal Fax National 0870 088 1512
Fax International +44 870 088 1512

Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Department of Interdisciplinary Human Studies
University of Bradford
Bradford BD7 1DP
Yorkshire
England

From: "Matt O'Brien"
Subject: Correction to Ir-D Shanty Irish 2


What I meant to say was:
, it is
>short-sighted to presume that acknowledging perspectives
>of each group is the same as providing an apologia for racial or
>sectarian prejudice.
>
>
>Matt O'Brien
>mjobrien[at]students.wisc.edu

From: DanCas1[at]aol.com
Subject: Re: Ir-D Almost Invisible


In a message dated 1/22/00 11:48:44 AM Pacific Standard Time,
irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk writes:

>


Hopefully, Alex Peach and others will continue to :"dare..say it," as
non-American scholars and writers can hopefully provide a much needed source
of equanimity and balance to the race and ethnicity dialogue which is rocking
and raging from "sea to shining sea" in the US.

Daniel Cassidy

PS

On another not totally unrelated subject, concerning the so-called Gentrified
Gaels of America, I received a wonderful e-mail from Wexford-born, NYC-based
Black 47 band leader and playwright Larry Kirwan on what he characterized as
the "lost tribe of the Shanty Irish." To paraphrase a rock and roll singer
and poet is always dangerous, so I will merely pass on his invitation to one
and all to do some empirical "boogying" at one of Black 47's 300 or so annual
concerts along the US northeastern urban corridor where these allegedly
invisible and extinct "micks" mix.

From: Cymru66[at]aol.com
Subject: Re: Ir-D Shanty Irish


I'm very pleased with the responses so far to my observation that research
in the Irish Diaspora is not taken too seriously and that funding is not
readily available because of the common impression that the Irish have made
it, are now members of a power establishment and, like WASPS, are not
interesting subjects for research. That was never my belief.
I am particularly grateful to S.Morgan and Dan Cassidy. I am engaged in a
comparative study of the 'integration processes ' undergone by Irish
immigrants in the U.S. and Britain and their comments have been very helpful.
Thanks,
John Hickey.

From: Patrick Maume
Subject: Re: Ir-D Almost Invisible


From: Patrick Maume
One parallel that seems to be neglected when comparing the Irish to
later immigrant groups is religious. I remember being highly amused
by seeing a contributor to the SALISBURY REVIEW or some similar organ
declare that Muslims could not be integrated in the same way that
earlier immigrant groups had been because they differed from Western
civilisation as follows (a) they didn't believe in the separation of
church and state (b) they believed in different social roles for men
and women (c) they used a a non-vernacular language for religious
purposes (d) in Muslim towns and cities the mosque is the biggest
building (e) they had more in common with Muslims elsewhere than with
British non-Muslims.
Some of these statements were true of most of "Western
civilisation" (as defined by the writer) until very recently, and all
of them were true of the nineteenth and early to mid-twentieth
century Catholic Irish whom the writer presumably had in mind as a
major component of the "successfuly-assimilated" earlier immigrants.
Similarly some right-wing anti-immigrant spokesmen in Europe and
America (such as the magazine CHRONICLES or the Israeli
polemicist Bat Ye'or) have alleged that the immigration of large
numbers of Muslims into Europe reflects a conscious Islamic plot to
conquer the West. Exactly the same claim was put forward by
nineteenth-century American nativists, who claimed that the Pope and
the monarchs of Europe were trying to destroy American liberty by
flooding the country with Catholic immigrants who were unused to
liberty and would use their votes to subvert it at the direction of
their masters, and that if the Catholic Church was allowed to set up
its own institutions (e.g schools) and reproduce itself over
generations, America would succumb to Catholic tyranny.
There are also of course certain similarities between this sort of
material and that produced in response to late nineteenth-century
Jewish immigration (I remember being very struck by this when I was
doing some research in early twentieth-century British Conservative
journals) but as this list primarily concerns the Irish diaspora and
this e-mail is already pretty long I won't develop this further unless
someone wants to extend the discussion.
Best wishes,
Patrick.


On Sun, 23 Jan 2000 20:39:09 +0000 irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
wrote:

> From:irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk> Date: Sun, 23 Jan 2000 20:39:09
+0000
> Subject: Ir-D Almost Invisible
> To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
>
>
>
> From: DanCas1[at]aol.com
> Subject: Re: Ir-D Almost Invisible
>
>
> In a message dated 1/22/00 11:48:44 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk writes:
>
> 20thC analysis of Race and Ethnicity being about colour. >>
>
>
> Hopefully, Alex Peach and others will continue to :"dare..say it,"
as
> non-American scholars and writers can hopefully provide a much
needed source
> of equanimity and balance to the race and ethnicity dialogue which
is rocking
> and raging from "sea to shining sea" in the US.
>
> Daniel Cassidy
>
> PS
>
> On another not totally unrelated subject, concerning the so-called
Gentrified
> Gaels of America, I received a wonderful e-mail from Wexford-born,
NYC-based
> Black 47 band leader and playwright Larry Kirwan on what he
characterized as
> the "lost tribe of the Shanty Irish." To paraphrase a rock and roll
singer
> and poet is always dangerous, so I will merely pass on his
invitation to one
> and all to do some empirical "boogying" at one of Black 47's 300 or
so annual
> concerts along the US northeastern urban corridor where these
allegedly
> invisible and extinct "micks" mix.

From: Patrick Maume
Subject: James Mullin THE STORY OF A TOILER'S LIFE (fwd)


From: Patrick Maume
Dear all,
University College Dublin Press is reprinting James Mullin's THE
STORY OF A TOILER'S LIFE with my introduction on 30 March 2000. I
have discussed this book from time to time on the lists but I thought
I'd publish an announcement and summarise the book for the benefit of
anyone who hasn't heard of it and might be interested in buying it/
getting a library to order it/ getting a bookshop to stock it.
James Mullin (1846-1920) was the son of a widow who farmed a small
patch of ground near Cookstown. The book describes his schooling and
early life as a labourer and unskilled carpenter, his activities as a
Fenian and a local "poet" which led to him being suspected of being a
sorceror. His mother gave him a thirst for learning and
self-betterment and taught him to bow down to no man. Through much
labour and self-sacrifice by him and his mother, Mullin managed to
learn the classical languages, gain admission to the local grammar
school and win a scholarship to Queen's College Galway, where he
stidues medicine. After graduating in 1880 (his mother having died in
th emeantime) he emigrated to Britain where he made a career as a
doctor in Cardiff. For many years he was the leading Home Rule
activist in Cardiff; he describes meetings with Parnell (whom he
disliked), Davitt (whom he revered) and Pearse (they had a rather
awkward encounter when Pearse visited Cardiff for the 1899
Eistedfodd). In later years Mullin became rather more a British
Radical than an Irish nationalist; he believed that Home Rule would
reconcile Ireland to the Empire, and came into conflict with younger
separatists, Gaelic Revivalists, and Catholic activists. (Mullin was
an agnostic, though he recalls in his autobiography that when seeking
employment in Britain he insisted on describing himself as an
Irish Catholic to prospective employers, though he knew it might
prejudice them against him, because it was his mother's religion and
he did not wish to sem to have abandoned it for personal gain.)
Mullin wrote his autobiography while dying of diabetes in 1915-17;
apparently he hoped to impose retrospective shape on his life and
ensure that something of him survived. The book was published by
Maunsel of Dublin in 1921, but its agnosticism and Home Rule
sympathies were not in accord with the times, and it attracted little
attention - even biographers of Parnell and Pearse have not made use
of it.
It should be of interest to students of Irish social history
(especially the post-Famine labouring poor), education and religious
belief, Fenianism and the Home Rule movement, the Ulster question
(Mullin has some material on his dealings with Orangemen), and the
Irish diaspora - especially the Irish in Wales. In addition it is an
intense and well-written book and a moving story in its own right.
I came across it in 1994 while working on my book on the later Home
Rule period, and have been trying to call it to people's attention
ever since. I published an article on it in IRISH STUDIES REVIEW
April 1999. (My introduction to the book is complementary to the
article, rather than being a replication of it - it tries to develop
different themes from those discussed in the article. Those who wish
to make use of the article should remember that, like all other
articles in the new-format IRISH STUDIES REVIEW, copyright belongs to
Carfax Ltd.) The present reprint is a photographic reproduction of
the 1921 edition, and I hope that in addition to being an useful
resource for Irish studies it may give James Mullin something of the
only form of immortality for which he hoped.

The book is No.4 in the UCD Press Classics of Irish History
series, whose general editor is Tom Garvin. (Roy Johnston's CIVIL WAR
IN ULSTER is No.3 - those of you who have it will be familiar with the
series format.) It is a paperback, costs £13.95 (I am not sure if
this is the Irish or sterling price - probably Irish)
ISBN-1-900621-40-1. It can be ordered through the UCD Press website
at www.ucdpress.ie>
For further information contact Barbara Mennell, Executive Editor,
UCD Press, Newman House, 86 St. Stephen's Green, Dublin 2, Republic of
Ireland. Telephone (01) 7067397 [from Britain the Dublin code is (00
353 1)] Fax (01) or (00 353 1) 7067211.
I believe that the series is published in the USA by Editions
Dufour, but it should be possible to order it direct form Dublin if
required.


Best wishes,
Patrick Maume

From: Enda Delaney
Subject: Irish in Britain


According to Sarah Morgan, "there is plenty of evidence
demonstrating that Irish born people in Britain also experience
marginalisation in the housing sector, are racially
discriminated against in the workplace and that they experience
ill health which can partly be attributed to being Irish
migrants in Britain".

Is there really "plenty of evidence" to support these
statements? Clearly, there is some evidence which indicates that
Irish migrants in Britain suffer marginalisation in terms of
housing and higher levels of ill-health. I suspect that the
reported discrimination against Irish migrants in the workplace
from the 1970s onwards had more to do with the effects of the
IRA mainland bombing campaign on perceptions of Ireland and
Irish migrants. Might things have changed as a result of the IRA
ceasefire and developments in the peace process?

Enda Delaney
School of Modern History
The Queen's University of Belfast

From: DanCas1[at]aol.com
Subject: Re: Ir-D Shanty Irish (continued...)


In a message dated 1/22/00 7:08:41

providing examples of Black-American poverty
and injustice, and working-class Irish-American defensiveness...



A Chairde:

Like a Sean Feeney/John Ford Western: from Philly to New York to Boston to
Providence to Pottsville, the Paddys circled the wagons.

As my mother says:" Son, your grandfather wasn't prejudiced against Black
people. He hated everybody...but the Irish. And he wasn't too fond of of them
either."

For the voice of South Boston and the elusive Shanty Irish persective, I
respectfully re-re-re-re-recommend brother Michael Patrick Mac Donald's "All
Souls: A Family Story from Southie" (Beacon Press, Boston, 1999).*

For additional information please contact my my querulous research assistant
and 3rd-cousin, "Shanty D'" (Frankie Mc Aree) for research and ruminations on
this subject.

"Last post" on the elusive North American "Shanty Irish" till March 2000.


Daniel Cassidy
Director
Irish Studies Program
An Leann Eireannach
New College of California,
San Francisco.com, Ca. 94131

From: "alex peach"
Subject: Re: Ir-D Irish in Britain

Anecdote time.

My mother recently bought some Irish beef from a local Tesco supermarket
here in the UK and was told by the till assistant that, "you don't want to
buy that it will blow up in the oven". So what Edna Delaney says has some
truth in it. However, those who cast a rheumy historical eye over the
formations of Irishness and Britishness in these isles cannot fail to notice
the negative (and some positive)stereotypes attributed to the Irish in
Britain (as well as Ireland) and the discrimination etc... that is
demonstrable throughout all periods, whether at times of nationalist
violence against the British State or not. My mother also remembers
discrimination and name calling in 1950s Britain and cites this as the
reason she lost her Irish accent as soon possible. I have evidence of this
sort of "ethnic suicide" from nineteenth century Warwickshire as well where
names were changed to disguise Irish ethnicity. Interestingly, it was an
English Catholic landowner that housed and provided work for my grandfather
here in Leicestershire back in the 50s. As for more recent evidence, well
there is the old "No Dogs, No Blacks, No Irish" signs of the 50s housing
market ( a recently deceased neighbour of mine in her 70s used the same sort
of racist language towards the Irish as she did Asians in Leicester - she
could not have chose a worse person to expose it to!).

These days people are more sophisticated in their understanding of what a
racist statement is so this is rarer - however, this is not to say they are
less racists around. An example of this is the Salisbury Review, as cited by
Patrick Maum- a right wing racist periodical. These days Its supporters talk
of "Cultural" differences rather than "racial" ones, but the tendentious
agenda is the same old "Rights for Whites" stuff.

The rump of the far-right in Britain is close to extreme elements in Ulster
Loyalism see Statewatch http://www.statewatch.org/swsearch.html (enter
Combat 18 in search box)They marched with Loyalists in London in 1996 and
Irish fans were viciously attacked by British fascists during an
international football match in Dublin a couple of years ago resulting in
some serious injuries.

The real period of change in the "common-sense" meaning of racism and
ethnicity in this country as being about colour came with the migration of
New Commonwealth immigrants to Britain in the 50s but especially the
1960s and 70s. The rise of former Conservative minister Enoch Powell and his
racist speeches, sparked a national debate (the medias' role in all this is
very unsavoury too, but that is a book on its own) and the re-invention of
Fascist parties such as The National Front and British National Party.
Powell was vilified by the liberal majority in Britain but found a home in
Ulster as a Unionist MP. Since then white migrants have been marginalised
within the debate on racism and ethnicity. Mary Hickman has done work on
this. Oh I suppose I should mention that Catholic Irish in that part of
Britain named Northern Ireland have not had a particularly fair deal in
housing and jobs etc.......

I posted a couple of recent examples of Irish discrimination on this list a
couple of years ago, one was a Commission for Racial Equality sponsored
court case for an Irishman driven out of his job by racist taunts, another
was a systematic persecution of Irish AND Asian workers at Heathrow Airport
by an organised racist group there (these posts are probably still hanging
around in the Majordomo somewhere). Former Conservative MP Terry Dicks was
passionately anti-Irish. There have been a few more examples of Irish people
being discriminated against at work recently, Catholics and Protestants. So
all in all I think it adds up to more than just a reaction to Irish
political violence. The strands are to do with religion, class, ethnicity
and racism, not to mention gender.....



Alex Peach

DeMontfort University.

- -----Original Message-----
(therefore British by the modern touchstone of national identity, her
passport), but From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk

To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
Date: 25 January 2000 09:40
Subject: Ir-D Irish in Britain


>
>From: Enda Delaney
>Subject: Irish in Britain
>
>
>According to Sarah Morgan, "there is plenty of evidence
>demonstrating that Irish born people in Britain also experience
>marginalisation in the housing sector, are racially
>discriminated against in the workplace and that they experience
>ill health which can partly be attributed to being Irish
>migrants in Britain".
>
>Is there really "plenty of evidence" to support these
>statements? Clearly, there is some evidence which indicates that
>Irish migrants in Britain suffer marginalisation in terms of
>housing and higher levels of ill-health. I suspect that the
>reported discrimination against Irish migrants in the workplace
>from the 1970s onwards had more to do with the effects of the
>IRA mainland bombing campaign on perceptions of Ireland and
>Irish migrants. Might things have changed as a result of the IRA
>ceasefire and developments in the peace process?
>
>Enda Delaney
>School of Modern History
>The Queen's University of Belfast
>

From: S.Morgan[at]unl.ac.uk
Subject: Re: Irish in Britain

Paddy, I am afraid that this seems to be a bit of a rant; however, I do want to
address Enda Delany's suggestion that it's all down to Northern Ireland...

In reponse to Enda Delany, there is plenty of empirical evidence, based on
census data and commmunity studies, to support my statement that "Irish born
people in Britain also experience marginalisation in the housing sector, are
racially discriminated against in the workplace and that they experience ill
health which can partly be attributed to being Irish migrants in Britain" (see
brief list below). As for the suggestion that anti-Irish racism is attributable
to the war in Northern Ireland, this is only to an extent true. Racism is
opportunistic, so while Northern Ireland was perceived as a problem in Britain
(which is not to suggest that it is no longer seen as a problem but rather one
which is being solved' by the British), the war in Northern Ireland did provide
one of the explanatory frameworks which served to justify prejudice and
discrimination against Irish people in Britain.

However, the war in Northern Ireland was not, and is not, the sole source of
anti-Irish sentiment in Britain. Older stereotypes pertain. It has been notable
that, for example, more fictional television programmes have been based in
Ireland, and on Irish people (for example Ballykissangel and Gimme Gimme), and
that Irish presenters have become more prevalent (Graham Norton, Patrick Kiely,
Dermot Murnaghan, and Des Lynam coming out' as Irish) and this may perhaps be
partly attributable to potential resolution in Northern Ireland making Irish
presenters and storylines appear safe'. However, this has also happened in the
wider context of devolution and increased use of regional accents on
television. But this is tempered by the type of presentation offered of Irish
people; for example, the now defunct Irish family in Brookside was troubled by
illiteracy, alcoholism, arson, dole fiddling, rapists and perjury in court.
This storyline has been resolved with the bulk of the family running away to
Ireland. I am sure that other list contributors could add to this.

I would also like to add that yesterday I attended a seminar, organised by
Action Group for Irish Youth, which looked at Irish people's experience of the
criminal justice system and particularly their interactions with the police.
Denis O'Connor, Asst. Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police, attended, albeit
briefly. At it, concern was expressed about continued use of anti-Irish
stereotypes by police officers and the over-representation of Irish people in
the prisons system (this perception was confirmed by Harry Fletcher, chair of
NAPO and Gerry Hedley, a prison governor). Fiona Murphy, solicitor for Alison
O'Brien, Richard O'Brien's widow, addressed the meeting and confirmed continued
anti-Irish racism within the criminal justice system. (Richard O'Brien was
killed by Met police officers. Full details in back issues of the Irish Post.)

Finally, the resistance to recognition of Irish people in Britain as an ethnic
group mitigates against the gathering of comprehensive data. Data from the 1991
Census is based on Irish born people living in Britain only. Local authorities
and housing associations in Britain generally do not include Irish' as a
category in their monitoring, reducing the evidence available on levels of
homelessness and access to social housing for Irish people in Britain. The 1991
Census suggests over-representation in the private rented sector, the worst
type of housing. Health Authorities similarly have proved very resistant to
monitoring for Irish. While the 2001 census is to include an Irish' category,
it is not a panacea. The unit in the London Borough of Lewisham responsible for
commissioning HIV services did monitor for Irish; but when I spoke to the woman
responsible, she told me that because Irish users were so few, she
re-incoporated the figure back into the white' category. No concern was
apparent about the lack of use of services by Irish people who were HIV+. This
was despite claiming to be aware of the work of Positively Irish Action on
AIDS.

Sarah Morgan,
Irish Studies Centre,
University of North London.

Short reference list:

1 Health

Leavey, G. 1999 "Suicide and Irish migrants in Britain: identity and
integration", International Review of Psychiatry, 11, 168-172

Harding, S. and Balarajan, R. 1996 "Patterns of mortality in second generation
Irish living in England and Wales: longitudinal study", British Medical
Journal, 312, 1389-1392.

Kelleher, D. 1996 "The health of the Irish in England" in Kelleher, D. and
Hillier, S. (eds) Researching Cultural Differences in Health, Routledge

O'Brien, O. and Power, R. 1998 HIV and a Migrant Community: the Irish in
Britain, AGIY and UCL Medical School.

Raferty, J., Jones, D.R. and Rosato, M. 1990 "The mortality of first and second
generation Irish immigrants in the UK", Social Science and Medicine, 31(5),
577-584.

Wells, P. 1996 Researching Irish Mental Health: issues and evidence, a study of
the mental health of the Irish community in Haringey, Muintearas.

Williams, I. and Mac an Ghaill, M. 1998 Health, Accommodation and Social Care
Needs of Older Irish Men in Birmingham, University of Birmingham.

2 Housing

Bennett, C. 1991 "The housing of the Irish in London" Irish Studies Centre
Occasional Papers Series, 3, UNL Press

Cara 1991 Access to Housing for Irish Single Homeless People: housing
association and local authority policy and practice, Cara

Cara 1994 Monitoring of Irish Applicants for Housing: a survey of London
boroughs

Cara 1995 Limited Opportunities: economic disadvantage and access to housing
for single Irish women

Randall, G. and Brown, S. 1997 Meeting the Need: Irish Housig Associations in
Action, Inisfree

3 Criminal Justice

Action Group for Irish Youth et al. 1997 The Irish Community: discrimination
and the criminal justice system, AGIY.

Borland, J., King, R. and McDermott, K. 1995 "The Irish in prison: a tighter
nick for the Micks'?" British Journal of Sociology, 46(3), 371-394.

Hillyard, P. 1993 Suspect Community, Pluto

Hillyard, P. 1994 "Irish people and the British criminal justice system"
Journal of Law and Society, special issue on Justice and Efficiency: the Royal
Commission on Criminal Justice', 21(1), 39-56.

Murphy, P. 1994 "The invisible minority: Irish offenders and the English
criminal justice system", Probation Journal, 41(1), 2-7.

General:

Action Group for Irish Youth 1995 Census Summaries, AGIY.

Barrington, C. 1997 Irish Women in Britain: an annotated bibliography, Attic

Connor, T. 1987 The London Irish, London Strategic Policy Unit

Hazelkorn, H. 1990 "Irish immigrants today: a socio-economic profile of
contemporary Irish emigrants and immigrants in the UK" Irish Studies Centre
Occasional Papers Series, 1, UNL Press

Hickman, M.J. and Walter, B. 1997 Discrimination and the Irish Community in
Britain: a report of research undertaken for the Commission for Racial
Equality, CRE

Hickman, M.J. and Morgan, S. 1997 The Irish in Lewisham, Lewisham Irish
Community Centre.

The Irish Post: last year there seemed to be more articles and reports on
discrimination than in recent years.

Jackson, J.A. 1963 The Irish in Britain, RKP

Kowarzik, U. 1994 Developing a Community Response: the service needs of the
Irish community in Britain. A Charities Evaluation Services Report, Federation
of Irish Societies in association with Action Group for Irish Youth.

Williams, I., Dunne, M. and Mac an Ghaill, M. 1996 Economic Needs of the Irish
Community in Birmingham, Birmingham Irish Community Forum and Birmingham City
Council.

From: Linda Dowling Almeida
"Almeida, Ed (Exchange)"
Subject: RE: Ir-D Shanty Irish (continued...)

Having just finished MacDonald's book I would enthusiastically concur with
his recommendation. It is a very powerful book from a perspective not
always heard or considered.
Linda Dowling Almeida
New York University


> -----Original Message-----
> From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk [SMTP:irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2000 2:51 AM
> To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
> Subject: Ir-D Shanty Irish (continued...)
>
>
> From: DanCas1[at]aol.com
> Subject: Re: Ir-D Shanty Irish (continued...)
>
>
>
> For the voice of South Boston and the elusive Shanty Irish persective, I
> respectfully re-re-re-re-recommend brother Michael Patrick Mac Donald's
> "All
> Souls: A Family Story from Southie" (Beacon Press, Boston, 1999).*
>
> For additional information please contact my my querulous research
> assistant
> and 3rd-cousin, "Shanty D'" (Frankie Mc Aree) for research and ruminations
> on
> this subject.
>
> "Last post" on the elusive North American "Shanty Irish" till March 2000.
>
>
> Daniel Cassidy
> Director
> Irish Studies Program
> An Leann Eireannach
> New College of California,
> San Francisco.com, Ca. 94131


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Forwarded from the H-Ethnic list...

P.O'S.


- -----Original Message-----
From: H-NET List on Ethnic History [mailto:H-ETHNIC[at]H-NET.MSU.EDU]On
Behalf Of Josef Barton
Sent: 25 January 2000 14:56
To: H-ETHNIC[at]H-NET.MSU.EDU
Subject: H-ETHNIC: NETNEWS: New discussion list Gender and
Nation/Nationalisms


SCHOLARLY DISCUSSION LIST "GENDER AND NATION/NATIONALISMS"
E-MAIL:
INTERNET: http://www.kgw.tu-berlin.de/fng
List editor: Karen Hagemann
Center for Interdisciplinary Studies on Women and Gender
at the Technical University of Berlin, Germany
E-MAIL:
INTERNET: http://www.kgw.tu-berlin.de/ZIFG
************************************************************************
Dear Colleagues,

We are writing to draw your attention to the new website of the SCHOLARLY
DISCUSSION LIST "GENDER AND NATION/NATIONALISMS" .
The English-language list already encompasses over 200 scholars from 28
countries working in this field.

The purpose of the interdisciplinary list is to connect researchers in the
various disciplines who work in the area of "Gender and
Nation/Nationalisms". The temporal emphasis is on the modern period. The
list will encompass the early modern period and the nineteenth and
twentieth centuries, not least in order to overcome the usual emphasis in
nationalism scholarship on the period around 1800 as a caesura. Regionally,
the list focuses on Europe. This emphasis is by no means intended to foster
'eurocentrism', since the advent and development of most European nations
cannot be understood without colonialism and imperialism. Research on
colonies, colonial policy and anti-colonialist and anti-imperialist
liberation movements must thus be integrated.

One of the chief objectives of the list is to increase communication among
scholars in the various disciplines who treat issues of "Gender and
Nation/Nationalism" in order to facilitate discussion across disciplinary
borders. A common point of departure could be an understanding of "gender"
and "nation" as constructed and contested relational systems of cultural
and social meanings. Together, the two systems not only shape the political
national culture in historically specific ways, but also legitimate and
limit the access of (groups of) people - women and men - to national
movements as well as to the resources of nation-states. Our other main
objective is to intensify exchange among scholars working in this field in
the various European regions, not least in the hope of inspiring more
comparative projects in the years to come. A comparative view, the
perception of the nation from inside and outside perspectives is, after
all, extraordinarily productive. The central phenomenon of inclusion in and
exclusion from the socially and culturally constructed nation did not
function solely via the drawing of internal boundaries (of class, gender,
race, ethnicity, religion and culture in the broadest sense), but also
decisively via the drawing of external boundaries - to neighboring peoples
or states and to 'alien peoples' in the conquered colonies. In short, the
image of one's 'own nation' was formed with respect to inside and outside
by means of counter-images or negative images of the 'Other' and the 'Alien'.

The list is intended to facilitate interdisciplinary and international
information exchange about research projects (completed, in progress or
planned) and new publications (books and articles) as well as workshops,
colloquia and conferences. It will also provide opportunities to publicize
reports on events and calls for papers, and inform about grants,
fellowships and positions. An up-to-date list of projects in progress of
all list members published on the website
will keep everybody who is interested informed. In addition we are
preparing a list of members' publications for this website. In the long
term we hope that the list will also become a place for reviews of
important monographs and essay collections. In addition, it could also
develop into a forum for discussing theoretical and methodological problems
that arise in scholarship on the nation and gender.

The list is connected with the
Center for Interdisciplinary Women's and Gender Studies (ZIFG)
at the Technical University of Berlin
Ernst-Reuter-Platz 7
Secretariat TEL 20-1
D-10587 Berlin
Telephone: +49-30-3142-6947
Fax: +49-30-3142-6988
Email: zifg[at]kgw.tu-berlin.de
Internet: http://www.kgw.tu-berlin.de/ZIFG

From: Anthony McNicholas
[mailto:anthonymcnicholas[at]uwmin.freeserve.co.uk]



Dear Ir-D list,

I have a query about AM Sullivan, (1830-1884), brother of TD Sullivan
(1827-1914) and father of AM Sullivan junior (1871-1959). He was the
proprietor and editor of the Nation, which in the 1860s was the voice of
constitutional nationalism and a fierce opponent of fenianism.

Does anyone know whether AM O'Sullivan was ever given the nickname 'Sandy'?
I have come across an accusation from an editor of a
London Fenian paper that another editor called Sandy was in the pay of the
government. That is the kind of accusation levelled at O'Sullivan by
Fenians. I have other reasons for thinking it was O'Sullivan, but would
like to know. The truth or otherwise of the accusation is another matter
entirely - everyone accused everyone else of treachery at the time. Equally,
if Sandy was not O'Sullivan, I would be keen to know who that was?

Thanking all Irish media history trivia specialists in advance,

Anthony McNicholas

[There has been some discussion of Ricard O'Sullivan Burke on the SSNCI list. Not to be
confused with his brother, Richard O'Sullivan Burke. Though he often is. In fairness, as
Patrick Quinlivan, historian of the fenians, has observed, no one has yet been able to
explain what possessed Burke senior to name one son Richard and the other Ricard...

Patrick Maume has kindly shared his note about Ricard O'Sullivan Burke with the Ir-D list.

There is a specific query here: the year of Ricard O'Sullivan Burke's death?

P.O'S.]


From: Patrick Maume
Subject: Re: Ricard O'Sullivan Burke (1838-????)

From: Patrick Maume
There's a new biography of him out from some local historians in
Cork - available from Cork and Dublin booksellers. Can't remember the
authors' names, unfortunately - it was privately published by some
people near Glanworth. I don't have a copy, unfortunately - bought it
as a gift for relatives who told me it it mostly a rehash of published
memoir and doesn't use state records etc. Apparently he emigrated to
Chicago, worked as an engineer on the water system, and died early in
the twentieth century.
And of course there is that passage from the NESTOR section of
ULYSSES, where Stephen recalls the old Fenian he met in Paris who as a
young man took part inn the attempted rescue of O'Sullivan Burke from
Pentonville prison (they tried to blow down the walls with a powerful
explosive charge, killed a dozen civilians, injured many others, and
didn't free the prisoners):-
Lover for her [Ireland's] love he prowled beneath the walls of
Pentonville with Colonel Ricard O'Sullivan Burke, tanist of his sept,
and saw a fiery flame of vengeance hurl them upward in the air. Now
in the shadows of Paris he crouches, Kevin Egan, Egan of Dublin... His
weak wasting hand in mine. They have forgotten Kevin Egan, not he
them. Remembering thee, O Sion.
I'll see if anyone on the Diaspora or
Irish studies lists can help.
Best wishes,
Patrick
On Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:02:24 +0000 (GMT Standard Time) Leon Litvack
wrote:

> From: Leon Litvack
> Date: Thu, 27 Jan 2000 13:02:24 +0000 (GMT Standard Time)
> Subject: Ricard O'Sullivan Burke (1838-????)
> To: SSNCI List
>
> Dear Friends,
>
> Ricard O'Sullivan Burke (one of the Fenian leaders in England in
> the 1860s) was born in 1838. Does anyone know the year of his
> death?
>
> Many thanks!
>
> All good wishes,
>
> Leon
>
> ----------------------
> Leon Litvack
> Senior Lecturer
> School of English
> Queen's University of Belfast
> Belfast BT7 1NN
> Northern Ireland, UK
>
> L.Litvack[at]qub.ac.uk
> http://www.qub.ac.uk/english/prometheus.html
>
> Tel. +44-(0)2890-273266
> Fax +44-(0)2890-314615
>