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From: Kerby Miller
Subject: Re: Origin of the term 'Black '47'
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Dear Sarah,

Someone at UCD's Irish Folklore Dept. told me about the
linguistic distinction between "fear gorm" (for an African or
African-American) and "an fear Dubh" for the devil (or sin, etc.)
over 30 years ago, when I was investigating the applicability of
Winthrop Jordan's thesis (re the cultural/linguistic origins of
English/Anglo-American racism) to Ireland and Irish-speakers. What I
was told convinced me to abandon that particular line of inquiry.

Best,

Kerby




>Kerby,
>
>my family is from north Carlow/west Wicklow and the term 'black
>Protestant' was used there too - at least when I was a teenager
>(1980s). There was (and is) an identifiable Protestant community in
>that area of Ireland.
>
>Some people used it to refer to Protestants who would avoid speaking
>to/socialising with Catholics - my mum (who is English) was given
>this explanation by the son of a Protestant woman who spent a happy
>afternoon with her, assuming that because she had an English accent
>she had to be Protestant herself (she was until we moved to Ireland
>when we all became Catholic).
>
>The sectarian usage was also there too, and the term 'Black North'
>was quite common in the 80s - I remember a couple of people telling
>me they couldn't believe I was going there when I went to Queen's
>for my undergraduate degree. But I haven't heard either of these
>terms in a long time - although as I now only visit, my experience
>won't be at all authoritative. However, the Protestant church in my
>home town does get attacked (windows smashed etc) at least once a
>year it seems, and the only obvious explanation is sectarianism - as
>the Catholic church doesn't experience the same vandalism.
>
>Carmel might want to know that I spent this Good Friday in Castlebar
>Co Mayo - I had totally forgotten that it was a 'black day' - we
>struggled to find somewhere to eat because everywhere was closed,
>apart from one or two hotels. My parents couldn't believe that I had
>forgotten too, so it is obviously still customary. And indeed our
>B&B landlady when we told her we had forgotten that everything was
>closed said 'oh yes, it's a black day'.
>
>And I have a question - I remember quite vividly at school being
>told that a black man would be 'fear gorm' (blue man) because 'an
>fear dubh' was reserved for the devil. But dictionaries don't come
>up with this at all. My Irish is terrible, so I'm quite prepared to
>believe I've got this wrong - but I would be interested if any of
>the Irish speakers/scholars on this list could cast a light on this
>usage, even only to tell me it's something I've misremembered!
>
>Thanks, Sarah.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Carmel McCaffrey
> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 4:33 PM
> Subject: Re: [IR-D] Origin of the term 'Black '47'
>
>
> Kerby,
>
> I think the term is more ubiquitous than just the political connotation
> associated with it - in my "mixed" upbringing [Catholic and Church of
> Ireland] the term was also used to describe Ulster Presbyterians or any
> non-conformists [including those in the south] who generally led was was
> perceived as a "bleak" lifestyle: overly strict Sunday observance,
> suspicion of Christmas as a hedonistic "unchristian" fraud, or what is
> generally described as the suspicion that someone somewhere might be
> enjoying themselves. I remember hearing one C of I relative saying that
> he stayed in a guest house in Kerry but the owner was a "black
> Protestant" who wouldn't allow the piano to be played on Sunday.
>
> This of course was perception and contrasts with the Catholic south and
> Good Friday. Those of us who grew up prior to the 1970s will remember
> Good Friday as a bleak day in the south - everything shut down. Crossing
> the border was a relief as shops, restaurants were all open and
> thriving. No observance of a bleak Good Friday for the Ulster region.
>
> Carmel
>
>
> Kerby Miller wrote:
> > What, if any, are the associations with phrases such "the Black North"
> > or "Black Protestants"?
> >
> > I've heard some people argue that it's a generically sectarian term,
> > used by some Irish Catholics to refer to any or all Protestants,
> > particularly in Ulster (has the term ever been used to refer to Irish
> > Protestants other than in Ulster),

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Subject: Re: Origin of the term 'Black '47'
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Hi Sarah and all

You are right about the Irish for a black man - it is 'fear gorm'. =
Dineen's dictionary (still the most authoritative after all those =
years!) lists 'fear m=F3r' and 'fear dubh' for the devil and 'fear gorm' =
for 'a negro'; De Bhaldraithe=92s dictionary confirms the latter usage =
and it is still the usual term used in Irish for a black person.

I agree with many of the earlier comments about the use of 'black' in a =
generic sense to designate Protestant (not necessarily of one confession =
only, but signifying a certain seriousness!), as much as cultural =
signifier as a (sometimes mildly) sectarian term. It was usually, in my =
experience, used in reference to the north of Ireland. A certain very =
eminent retired politician, still happily with us (go on, guess..) of =
mixed religious background, used to say of the (northern) Protestant =
side of his family that =91Protestants have cold plates' meaning that =
the plates were not warmed before dinner was served, as was (is?) the =
common custom in Ireland. A juxtaposition between food as pleasure and =
the consumption of food as a duty. To my mind this immediately recalls =
the wonderful Danish film Babette=92s feast, in which a strictly =
fundamentalist rural Protestant village in Denmark is seduced by the =
cooking of a political refugee from Paris. The film in part is about the =
interplay between the pleasures of the flesh in this life and the =
religious desire for an ascetic lifestyle in the expectation of an =
eternal reward. Catholics in the south in Ireland, and maybe in the =
north as well, used to talk about a =91Protestant house=92 or a =
=91Protestant garden=92 , half-enviously, designating a house or garden =
(not necessarily owned by a Protestant at all!) characterized by order =
and neatness and hard work.=20

Nowadays it=92s all a bit confusing. The south has overtaken the north =
in terms of economic, social and cultural innovation; I say this with =
all respect. But the north is also in the process of re-inventing itself =
and has at least retained the sense of a society with some kind of core =
values, whereas the south is in free-fall, as can be seen in the current =
epidemic of cocaine and conspicuous consumption.

The old shibboleths of lazy Taigs and God-fearing Prods need to be =
consigned to the dustbin of history.

Piaras

-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List on behalf of Sarah Morgan
Sent: Sun 09/12/2007 11:39
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Origin of the term 'Black '47'
=20
Kerby,

my family is from north Carlow/west Wicklow and the term 'black =
Protestant' was used there too - at least when I was a teenager (1980s). =
There was (and is) an identifiable Protestant community in that area of =
Ireland.

Some people used it to refer to Protestants who would avoid speaking =
to/socialising with Catholics - my mum (who is English) was given this =
explanation by the son of a Protestant woman who spent a happy afternoon =
with her, assuming that because she had an English accent she had to be =
Protestant herself (she was until we moved to Ireland when we all became =
Catholic).=20

The sectarian usage was also there too, and the term 'Black North' was =
quite common in the 80s - I remember a couple of people telling me they =
couldn't believe I was going there when I went to Queen's for my =
undergraduate degree. But I haven't heard either of these terms in a =
long time - although as I now only visit, my experience won't be at all =
authoritative. However, the Protestant church in my home town does get =
attacked (windows smashed etc) at least once a year it seems, and the =
only obvious explanation is sectarianism - as the Catholic church =
doesn't experience the same vandalism.

Carmel might want to know that I spent this Good Friday in Castlebar Co =
Mayo - I had totally forgotten that it was a 'black day' - we struggled =
to find somewhere to eat because everywhere was closed, apart from one =
or two hotels. My parents couldn't believe that I had forgotten too, so =
it is obviously still customary. And indeed our B&B landlady when we =
told her we had forgotten that everything was closed said 'oh yes, it's =
a black day'.

And I have a question - I remember quite vividly at school being told =
that a black man would be 'fear gorm' (blue man) because 'an fear dubh' =
was reserved for the devil. But dictionaries don't come up with this at =
all. My Irish is terrible, so I'm quite prepared to believe I've got =
this wrong - but I would be interested if any of the Irish =
speakers/scholars on this list could cast a light on this usage, even =
only to tell me it's something I've misremembered!

Thanks, Sarah.
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Carmel McCaffrey=20
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK=20
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Origin of the term 'Black '47'


Kerby,

I think the term is more ubiquitous than just the political =
connotation=20
associated with it - in my "mixed" upbringing [Catholic and Church =
of=20
Ireland] the term was also used to describe Ulster Presbyterians or =
any=20
non-conformists [including those in the south] who generally led was =
was=20
perceived as a "bleak" lifestyle: overly strict Sunday observance,=20
suspicion of Christmas as a hedonistic "unchristian" fraud, or what is =

generally described as the suspicion that someone somewhere might be=20
enjoying themselves. I remember hearing one C of I relative saying =
that=20
he stayed in a guest house in Kerry but the owner was a "black=20
Protestant" who wouldn't allow the piano to be played on Sunday.

This of course was perception and contrasts with the Catholic south =
and=20
Good Friday. Those of us who grew up prior to the 1970s will remember =

Good Friday as a bleak day in the south - everything shut down. =
Crossing=20
the border was a relief as shops, restaurants were all open and=20
thriving. No observance of a bleak Good Friday for the Ulster region.

Carmel


Kerby Miller wrote:
> What, if any, are the associations with phrases such "the Black =
North"=20
> or "Black Protestants"?
>
> I've heard some people argue that it's a generically sectarian term, =

> used by some Irish Catholics to refer to any or all Protestants,=20
> particularly in Ulster (has the term ever been used to refer to =
Irish=20
> Protestants other than in Ulster),

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Black
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From: "D C Rose"
To: "The Irish Diaspora Studies List"
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Origin of the term 'Black '47'

Are we forgetting The Royal Black Preceptory? Black men distinct from Orange
men in the spectrum of northern Irish Protestantism?.

David



http://www.royalblack.org/message.html

http://www.royalblack.org/background.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Black_Institution

etc., etc.

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From: D C Rose
Subject: Re: Origin of the term 'Black '47'
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Piaras writes

Catholics in the south in Ireland, and maybe in the north as well, used to
> talk about a 'Protestant house' or a 'Protestant garden' , half-enviously,
> designating a house or garden (not necessarily owned by a Protestant at
> all!) characterized by order and neatness and hard work.
>

One should not forget the Protestant bicycle, one with a basket on the
handlebars.

David

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From: Peter Hart
Subject: Re: Origin of the term 'Black '47'
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A fascinating discussion. I don't have anything really new to add but I have
done a lot of research into Cork Protestants in the 1910s and '20s - including
a lot of interviews - and my strong impression was that the term 'black
Protestants' did indeed describe people who made their religion or politics an
issue in some way with Catholics. My sense was that this also referred to
personality or demeanor - confrontational people, people who gave offense. I
don't think it was a term used by Protestants to describe each other. To add
gender into the mix, I'm pretty sure those so described were exclusively male.
Can anyone else confirm or contradict this?

Peter Hart

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From: "Muiris Mag Ualghairg"
To: "The Irish Diaspora Studies List"
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Origin of the term 'Black '47'

My mother's family are from Armagh and I spent lots of time there during the
'troubles' - including behind the police lines as they fired plastic bullets
into a loyalist mob in Portadown which was intent on 1) burning my cousin's
shop down, and 2) attacking the pub that we were in (I was only person
foolish enough to step outside to watch the police, most other people had
been issued with snooker cues, which the pub had a surprisingly large number
of. The people in the pub were very derogatory about the 'Black B....s'
outside and when I asked why they invariably referred to the Royal Black
Order which has its headquarters in Lurgan. The Black Order is and was seen
as being the worst type of Orangemen, the die hard and most illiberal
members of the 'loyal fraternities', those who were the worst of the worst
(or I'm sure to Orange minds, the best of the best).

I have asked this question to lots of people, why call them 'black ...' and
each time I have had the same response about the Black Order. It may be that
they are more aware of the Black Order as it's headquarters are so close by
and it has lots of members in the area, but it has always struck me that
they have the same answer.

I have heard it used of women, generally with the word bitch added in!

Muiris


On 10/12/2007, Peter Hart wrote:
>
> A fascinating discussion. I don't have anything really new to add but I
> have
> done a lot of research into Cork Protestants in the 1910s and '20s -
> including
> a lot of interviews - and my strong impression was that the term 'black
> Protestants' did indeed describe people who made their religion or
> politics an
> issue in some way with Catholics. My sense was that this also referred to
> personality or demeanor - confrontational people, people who gave
> offense. I
> don't think it was a term used by Protestants to describe each other. To
> add
> gender into the mix, I'm pretty sure those so described were exclusively
> male.
> Can anyone else confirm or contradict this?
>
> Peter Hart
>

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Book Noticed, The Orange Order in Canada
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On a train of thought...

Four Courts Press have just issued a new book, The Orange Order in =
Canada.

Information and TOC pasted in below...

P.O'S.

The Orange Order in Canada
David A. Wilson, editor

Hardback
272pp. 2007
ISBN:
978-1-84682-077-9
Catalogue Price: =E2=82=AC55
Web Price: =E2=82=AC49.50

This book locates Canadian Orangeism in its international context, =
assesses the activities of the Order in Toronto, the =E2=80=98Belfast of =
North America=E2=80=99, analyzes the ambivalent relationship of Canadian =
Orangeism to the crown, discusses Orange influences on Canadian =
Confederation, and examines the reasons for the Order=E2=80=99s decline =
in the second half of the 20th century.

David A. Wilson is professor of Celtic studies and history at the =
University of Toronto. His books include Paine and Cobbett: the =
transatlantic connection (1998) and United Irishmen, United States =
(1998).

http://www.fourcourtspress.ie/product.php?intProductID=3D735

Contents
Donald M. MacRaild (UU), The associationalism of the Orange diaspora;
Eric Kaufmann (U London), Orange Order in Ontario, Newfoundland, =
Scotland and Northern Ireland;=20
Brian Clarke (U Toronto), Parades and public life in Victorian Toronto;
William Jenkins (York U), Loyal Orange lodges in early 20th-century =
Toronto;
Ian Radforth (U Toronto), Orangemen and the crown;=20
David A. Wilson (U Toronto), Thomas D=E2=80=99Arcy McGee, Orangeism and =
the new nationality;=20
John Edward FitzGerald (Memorial U Newfoundland), The Orange Order and =
Newfoundland=E2=80=99s confederation with Canada, 1948=E2=80=939;=20
Cecil J. Houston (U Windsor) & William J. Smyth (NUIM), Decline of the =
Orange Order in Canada, 1905=E2=80=932005;=20
Mark G. McGowan (U Toronto), Postscript.

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From: Anthony Mcnicholas
Subject: Re: Black
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Has anyone mentioned the Royal Black Institution or Black Preceptory?
Would this have any relevance for black as protestant?
anthony

Dr Anthony McNicholas
CAMRI
University of Westminster
Harrow Campus
Watford Road
Harrow
HA1 3TP
0118 948 6164 (BBC WAC)

-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
Behalf Of Patrick O'Sullivan
Sent: 10 December 2007 18:12
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: [IR-D] Black

From: "Muiris Mag Ualghairg"
To: "The Irish Diaspora Studies List"
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Origin of the term 'Black '47'

My mother's family are from Armagh and I spent lots of time there during
the
'troubles' - including behind the police lines as they fired plastic
bullets
into a loyalist mob in Portadown which was intent on 1) burning my
cousin's
shop down, and 2) attacking the pub that we were in (I was only person
foolish enough to step outside to watch the police, most other people
had
been issued with snooker cues, which the pub had a surprisingly large
number
of. The people in the pub were very derogatory about the 'Black B....s'
outside and when I asked why they invariably referred to the Royal Black
Order which has its headquarters in Lurgan. The Black Order is and was
seen
as being the worst type of Orangemen, the die hard and most illiberal
members of the 'loyal fraternities', those who were the worst of the
worst
(or I'm sure to Orange minds, the best of the best).

I have asked this question to lots of people, why call them 'black ...'
and
each time I have had the same response about the Black Order. It may be
that
they are more aware of the Black Order as it's headquarters are so close
by
and it has lots of members in the area, but it has always struck me that
they have the same answer.

I have heard it used of women, generally with the word bitch added in!

Muiris


On 10/12/2007, Peter Hart wrote:
>
> A fascinating discussion. I don't have anything really new to add but
I
> have
> done a lot of research into Cork Protestants in the 1910s and '20s -
> including
> a lot of interviews - and my strong impression was that the term
'black
> Protestants' did indeed describe people who made their religion or
> politics an
> issue in some way with Catholics. My sense was that this also
referred to
> personality or demeanor - confrontational people, people who gave
> offense. I
> don't think it was a term used by Protestants to describe each other.
To
> add
> gender into the mix, I'm pretty sure those so described were
exclusively
> male.
> Can anyone else confirm or contradict this?
>
> Peter Hart
>

--
The University of Westminster is a charity and a company limited by
guarantee. Registration number: 977818 England. Registered Office:
309 Regent Street, London W1B 2UW, UK.

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
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From: Patrick Maume
The reference to the Royal Black Preceptory as specially violent surprises
me. My understanding is that it is regarded as a rather sedate body,
dominated by Orangemen who see the Order primarily in religious terms, and
is regarded as less rowdy than average. This may be age-related, since you
have to be a member of both the Orange and Purple orders (you have to spend
some time as an Orangeman before joining the Purple) so the members will
obviously be older than the rank & file Orangeman. (Think Jim Molyneaux,
who was head of the RBP for many years.) There is also a structure of 10
degrees within the Black (though I believe it is possible to go through them
fairly quickly after admission) so a senior Blackman might be expected to be
noticeably older than the ordinary Orangeman and to have spent a lot of time
in meetings, and to have been "weeded" of those seen as troublesome or
uncommitted (the selection being made by those within the charmed circle)!
OTOH such people might also be regarded as highly-committed and thus "black
Protestants" in that sense!
Best wishes,
Patrick

On Dec 10, 2007 10:01 PM, Anthony Mcnicholas
wrote:

> Has anyone mentioned the Royal Black Institution or Black Preceptory?
> Would this have any relevance for black as protestant?
> anthony
>
> Dr Anthony McNicholas
> CAMRI
> University of Westminster
> Harrow Campus
> Watford Road
> Harrow
> HA1 3TP
> 0118 948 6164 (BBC WAC)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
> Behalf Of Patrick O'Sullivan
> Sent: 10 December 2007 18:12
> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Subject: [IR-D] Black
>
> From: "Muiris Mag Ualghairg"
> To: "The Irish Diaspora Studies List"
> Subject: Re: [IR-D] Origin of the term 'Black '47'
>
> My mother's family are from Armagh and I spent lots of time there during
> the
> 'troubles' - including behind the police lines as they fired plastic
> bullets
> into a loyalist mob in Portadown which was intent on 1) burning my
> cousin's
> shop down, and 2) attacking the pub that we were in (I was only person
> foolish enough to step outside to watch the police, most other people
> had
> been issued with snooker cues, which the pub had a surprisingly large
> number
> of. The people in the pub were very derogatory about the 'Black B....s'
> outside and when I asked why they invariably referred to the Royal Black
> Order which has its headquarters in Lurgan. The Black Order is and was
> seen
> as being the worst type of Orangemen, the die hard and most illiberal
> members of the 'loyal fraternities', those who were the worst of the
> worst
> (or I'm sure to Orange minds, the best of the best).
>
> I have asked this question to lots of people, why call them 'black ...'
> and
> each time I have had the same response about the Black Order. It may be
> that
> they are more aware of the Black Order as it's headquarters are so close
> by
> and it has lots of members in the area, but it has always struck me that
> they have the same answer.
>
> I have heard it used of women, generally with the word bitch added in!
>
> Muiris
>
>
> On 10/12/2007, Peter Hart wrote:
> >
> > A fascinating discussion. I don't have anything really new to add but
> I
> > have
> > done a lot of research into Cork Protestants in the 1910s and '20s -
> > including
> > a lot of interviews - and my strong impression was that the term
> 'black
> > Protestants' did indeed describe people who made their religion or
> > politics an
> > issue in some way with Catholics. My sense was that this also
> referred to
> > personality or demeanor - confrontational people, people who gave
> > offense. I
> > don't think it was a term used by Protestants to describe each other.
> To
> > add
> > gender into the mix, I'm pretty sure those so described were
> exclusively
> > male.
> > Can anyone else confirm or contradict this?
> >
> > Peter Hart
> >
>
> --
> The University of Westminster is a charity and a company limited by
> guarantee. Registration number: 977818 England. Registered Office:
> 309 Regent Street, London W1B 2UW, UK.
>

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From: "Don MacRaild"
To: "The Irish Diaspora Studies List"

There were, in the 19th century, eleven degrees (plus the Orange itself)
which
a "Black" might pass through.These were : 'Black, Scarlet, Mark, Apron &
Blue,
White, Green, Gold, Star & Garter, Crimson Arrow, Link & Chain,
and Red Cross.

However, the Orange only spoke and wrote about three degrees: Orange,
Black and Purple, and in the nineteenth century there was pressure to reduce

to
two degrees. As a result, the purple was dealt with as a
super-charged
event within the Orange; there were no separate lodges that I have found.
The Black perceptory was separate. It was also smaller. It was composed of
the older and more senior Orangemen -- in effect, the stalwarts
who kept the Orange going also kept the Blacks going. Although in the north
of England, which I have written about, the Blacks were not very common.

All of the above degrees are, of course, medieval--they emerge from the
Knights Templar and other crusading sects. Friendly Societies, and
temperance
organisations such as the Templars also took on the medieval nomenclature.
In the nineteenth century there were lots of little outfits which looked
like the
OO but were called things like the Sons of Israel. But of course 'Orange'
isn't
medieval, so Black may, or may not, be.

Some of this and more appears in my book, 'Faith, Fraternity and Fighting'
(Liverpool
UP, 2005).

Cheers,


Don MacRaild
University of Ulster





----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick Maume"
To:
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 11:46 PM
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black


> From: Patrick Maume
> The reference to the Royal Black Preceptory as specially violent surprises
> me. My understanding is that it is regarded as a rather sedate body,
> dominated by Orangemen who see the Order primarily in religious terms, and
> is regarded as less rowdy than average. This may be age-related, since
> you
> have to be a member of both the Orange and Purple orders (you have to
> spend
> some time as an Orangeman before joining the Purple) so the members will
> obviously be older than the rank & file Orangeman. (Think Jim Molyneaux,
> who was head of the RBP for many years.) There is also a structure of 10
> degrees within the Black (though I believe it is possible to go through
> them
> fairly quickly after admission) so a senior Blackman might be expected to
> be
> noticeably older than the ordinary Orangeman and to have spent a lot of
> time
> in meetings, and to have been "weeded" of those seen as troublesome or
> uncommitted (the selection being made by those within the charmed
> circle)!
> OTOH such people might also be regarded as highly-committed and thus
> "black
> Protestants" in that sense!
> Best wishes,
> Patrick
>
> On Dec 10, 2007 10:01 PM, Anthony Mcnicholas
> wrote:
>
>> Has anyone mentioned the Royal Black Institution or Black Preceptory?
>> Would this have any relevance for black as protestant?
>> anthony
>>
>> Dr Anthony McNicholas
>> CAMRI
>> University of Westminster
>> Harrow Campus
>> Watford Road
>> Harrow
>> HA1 3TP
>> 0118 948 6164 (BBC WAC)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
>> Behalf Of Patrick O'Sullivan
>> Sent: 10 December 2007 18:12
>> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
>> Subject: [IR-D] Black
>>
>> From: "Muiris Mag Ualghairg"
>> To: "The Irish Diaspora Studies List"
>> Subject: Re: [IR-D] Origin of the term 'Black '47'
>>
>> My mother's family are from Armagh and I spent lots of time there during
>> the
>> 'troubles' - including behind the police lines as they fired plastic
>> bullets
>> into a loyalist mob in Portadown which was intent on 1) burning my
>> cousin's
>> shop down, and 2) attacking the pub that we were in (I was only person
>> foolish enough to step outside to watch the police, most other people
>> had
>> been issued with snooker cues, which the pub had a surprisingly large
>> number
>> of. The people in the pub were very derogatory about the 'Black B....s'
>> outside and when I asked why they invariably referred to the Royal Black
>> Order which has its headquarters in Lurgan. The Black Order is and was
>> seen
>> as being the worst type of Orangemen, the die hard and most illiberal
>> members of the 'loyal fraternities', those who were the worst of the
>> worst
>> (or I'm sure to Orange minds, the best of the best).
>>
>> I have asked this question to lots of people, why call them 'black ...'
>> and
>> each time I have had the same response about the Black Order. It may be
>> that
>> they are more aware of the Black Order as it's headquarters are so close
>> by
>> and it has lots of members in the area, but it has always struck me that
>> they have the same answer.
>>
>> I have heard it used of women, generally with the word bitch added in!
>>
>> Muiris
>>
>>
>> On 10/12/2007, Peter Hart wrote:
>> >
>> > A fascinating discussion. I don't have anything really new to add but
>> I
>> > have
>> > done a lot of research into Cork Protestants in the 1910s and '20s -
>> > including
>> > a lot of interviews - and my strong impression was that the term
>> 'black
>> > Protestants' did indeed describe people who made their religion or
>> > politics an
>> > issue in some way with Catholics. My sense was that this also
>> referred to
>> > personality or demeanor - confrontational people, people who gave
>> > offense. I
>> > don't think it was a term used by Protestants to describe each other.
>> To
>> > add
>> > gender into the mix, I'm pretty sure those so described were
>> exclusively
>> > male.
>> > Can anyone else confirm or contradict this?
>> >
>> > Peter Hart
>> >
>>
>> --
>> The University of Westminster is a charity and a company limited by
>> guarantee. Registration number: 977818 England. Registered Office:
>> 309 Regent Street, London W1B 2UW, UK.
>>
>
>

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "Murray, Edmundo"
Subject: Re: The Irish in The Bahamas
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Michael,

Although it doesn't mention specific Irish links, there is an article
about the salt trade in the Bahamian Archipelago that may be of help:

Cynthia M. Kennedy, 'The Other White Gold: Salt, Slaves, the Turks and
Caicos Islands, and British Colonialism' in "The Historian" 69 (2)
(Summer 2007), 215-230.=20

Edmundo Murray

-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
Behalf
Of Patrick O'Sullivan
Sent: 04 December 2007 19:55
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: [IR-D] The Irish in The Bahamas

From: Michael Kenneally [mailto:michael.kenneally[at]concordia.ca]=20
Sent: 03 December 2007 15:19
Subject: The Irish in The Bahamas

Dear Paddy,

I have had an enquiry regarding any historical links (significant
immigrants, etc.) between Ireland and The Bahamas and would be grateful
for
any information members of the list might provide.=20

The person is looking for historical links through immigration - famous
or
celebrated Irish emigrants or Irish-Bahamians. Perhaps even place names
associated with Irish emigrants or settlements. I know we are dealing
with a
very small set of islands but there must be some stories/histories
lurking
around some corner.

Many thanks for whatever can be discovered.

Thank you,

Michael

________________________________________
=20
Michael Kenneally, Professor
Chair in Canadian Irish Studies
Director, Centre for Canadian Irish Studies
Concordia University
1590 Dr. Penfield
Montreal QC H3G 1C5
514 848 8711
=20

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: RIA Invitation to a Lecture: 'Cultural Diversity and Human
Solidarity' by Professor Patrick Masterson, MRIA
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A Chara

You are kindly invited to the Royal Irish Academy Discourse by Professor
Patrick Masterson entitled 'Cultural Diversity and Human Solidarity'.

We look forward to seeing you there.

Mise le meas

Karen West
Executive Assistant
Royal Irish Academy
01 676-570
www.ria.ie


Cultural Diversity and Human Solidarity

Professor Patrick Masterson, MRIA, Former President of the European
University

Royal Irish Academy, 19 Dawson Street, Dublin 2
6 pm, Monday 17 December

ADMISSION FREE

To reserve a place please
Email: mastersondiscourse[at]ria.ie
or Telephone 01 609 0634

Summary
The history of humanity is, in part, a history of its inhumanity - a history
of strident claims that some people are quintessentially more human than
others. In this context the range and depth of cultural diversity poses
problems for the counter-affirmation that all persons are of equal human
worth and dignity. In this lecture, Professor Masterson will consider
various ways in which this issue of the relationship between cultural
diversity and human solidarity is, or can be, addressed. One way is to claim
that cultural diversity is an historical phenomenon and is in the process of
being overcome historically by an emergent cosmic mono-culturalism. Here we
are in the domain of globalization and a rather uni-dimensional conception
of culture as comprehensively dominated by the remarkable achievements of
modern science and technology. Another way is by means of an appeal to
tolerance or charity, which affirms that all cultures are in a way
equivalent - equi-valent - of equal value, because they are radically
incomparable. This way can lead to a problematic relativism. Perhaps a more
helpful way of addressing the issue is to explore the extent of over-lapping
consensus that can be discerned at different levels of culture between very
different and often confrontational cultures. Finally Professor Masterson
will offer some remarks on the crucial role that universities can play in
this route-finding activity through compounds of cultural intransigence.

http://www.ria.ie/events/masterson-discourse.html

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "Rogers, James"
Subject: Winter, 2007 New Hibernia Review TOC
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Friends,

=20

The Winter, 2007 issue of New Hibernia Review (volume 11, number 4) =
mails
next week; some of you will be dipping into it on-line through Project
Muse=AE; some of you will soon see it in your mailboxes; and I suppose =
some of
you still hope it will turn up under your Christmas tree....

=20

Here is a table of contents and a short description of each article

=20

Christine Cusick, Seton Hill University

"Tourmakeady Snow" pp. 9 -16

=20

The issue opens with a memoir that tells of transformative trip when,
following the death of her mother, Cusick traveled with her father and =
other
members of her family to Ireland.The family found themselves =
inexplicably
drawn to her grandfather's home town where they faced an old and =
unadmitted
wound, and felt the beginnings of healing.. =20

=20

Caleb Richardson, University of New Mexico

"Transforming Anglo-Ireland: R.M. Smyllie and the Irish Times" pp. =
17-36

=20

Richardson describes the extraordinary transformation that the editor =
of
genius R M. Smylle worked on the Times over two decades, turning it =
from a
fusty relic of an Anglo-Irish Ascendancy into a vibrant force in the
national life. Smyllie undertook this effort with panache, an eye for
journalistic talent, political courage, and, at times, with heroic
eccentricity.

=20

John McAulliffe, University of Manchester

"Fili=F3cht Nua: New Poetry," pp. 37-46

In a suite of new poems from the author of A Better Life (2002) and =
Next
Door (2007), both from Gallery Press, McAulliffe's poems probe =
contemporary
tensions between motion, dislocation, and place. =20

=20

James S. Donnelly, Jr, University of Wisconsin-Madison

"Captain Rock: The Origins of the Irish Agrarian Rebellion of 1821-24" =
pp.
47-72

=20

One of the most violent of the waves of Irish agrarian rebellion in the =
late
eighteenth and early nineteenth centuries is the concern of James S.
Donnelly, Jr., in his essay on the early followers of "Captain Rock," =
the
mythical leader of the agrarian upheaval of 1821--24. The ruthless =
behavior
of the land agent Alexander Hoskins prompted a series of violent =
incidents
in County Limerick; these events, in turn, set off a wider explosion of
violence propelled of millennial predictions of Protestant doom, =
intense
sectarian hostility, and a severe agricultural depression. =20

=20

Abigail L. Palko, University of Notre Dame

"Out of Home in the Kitchen: Maeve Brennan's Herbert's Retreat Stories" =
pp.
73-91

=20

Irish-born Maeve Brennan (1917-93) was a lively participant in the New
Yorker magazine's often bemused project of remarking on social mores. =
Palko
considers how in a series of short stories, Brennan resurrected the =
figure
of the Irish maid-by then a fixture in American life and letters for =
more
than a century-to skewer the pretensions of upper-class readers. =20

=20

Erik Martiny, University of Aix-en-Provence

"Anxiety, Apprenticeship, Accommodation: Paul Durcan and his Poetic
Forefathers" pp. 92-108

=20

Paul Durcan's poetry abounds with allusions to his writerly =
precursors-to
the point where, as Prof. Erik Martiny notes, such figures as Patrick
Kavanagh can appear to serve as substitute father figures. Comparing
Durcan's work with that of other poets, Martiny also weaves in feminist =
and
structural critical theories to explain the patriarchal pattern.=20

=20

John Turpin, National College of Art and Design

"Monumental Commemoration of the Fallen in Ireland, North and South, =
192-60"
pp. 107-19

=20


Turpin examines Irish monuments, North and South, erected to the memory =
of
those who died in World War I. In the North, the "Ulster sacrifice" was =
read
and recalled as a defining moment in the Unionist's British identity. =
But
such monuments in the Free State, and later, the Republic, reflect a
pervasive ambiguity toward Irish service in the British forces. =20


=20

Next, three short essays marking the centennial of Synge's The Aran =
Island
comprise a "Radharc ar gC=FAl / Backward Glance" feature:

=20

Ann Saddlemyer, University of Victoria

"Synge's The Aran Islands (1907)" pp. 120-24

=20

Saddlemyer reminds us of the ways in which qualities we now term =
Syngean are
adumbrated in the author's first book. The very circularity of the =
book's
structure reminds us that Synge was fully aware of a "separateness of
himself and the world he enters."=20

=20

Veerendra Lele, Denison University

"Reading Dialogic Correspondence: Synge's The Aran Islands" pp. 124-29 =


=20

Lele offers a present-day ethnographer's response to Synge's account of =
time
among the islanders. The future playwright may have believed himself a =
mere
observer, but Bahktinian analysis suggests that he was in fact entering =
into
an historical tension between Irish and English; in doing so, Synge
collaboratively produced and reproduced the culture he recorded.=20

=20

Shawn Gillen, Beloit College

"Synge's The Aran Islands and Irish Creative Nonfiction" pp. 129-35

=20

Gillen appreciates The Aran Islands as a charter document in an =
evolving
tradition of creative nonfiction in Ireland and elsewhere; a =
minimalist
aesthetic and seemingly detached narrative persona make Synge the =
stylist
seem oddly familiar to present-day readers. =20

=20

Julie Henigan, University of Notre Dame

" 'The Old Irish Tonality': Folksong as Emotional Catalyst in 'The =
Dead'" pp
136-48.

=20

Music in many forms runs through "The Dead," but no music at the Misses
Morkans' Christmas party proves so potent as "The Lass of Aughrim," a
traditional ballad sung by Bartell D'Arcy. Henigan contends that the =
most
compelling reasons Joyce chose to make a traditional song a central =
element
were those qualities of immediacy, directness, and emotional engagement =
that
we assign to folksong in general, and to this song in particular. =20

=20

Subscription information, contributor guidelines, and much else can be =
found
at www.stthomas.edu/irishstudies =
, or
send an e-mail to jrogers[at]stthomas.edu =20

=20

Jim Rogers

Editor

.

=20

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Black
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

From: "Bruce Stewart"
To: "'The Irish Diaspora Studies List'"
Subject: RE: [IR-D] Black
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:36:22 -0000

I think that the industrial north of England is also known as the 'Black
Country'. The Black Hills of Dakota is probably due to the coloration
rather than that of the inhabitants. 'Very protestant' is common
parlance for a well-done job here in Ulster. 'Straight as a Protestant
spire' is in Patrick Kavanagh. As a taigue with a proddish name I own up
to be slack and lazy. The UK is still the longest working week in the
EU, with ROI second. That surprised me. I thought the Celtic tiger had
surpassed the inventors of factory hours and then some. All the
stereotypes are up for revision, right enough. You've got to give it to
the Poles - taking four out of five new jobs in Ireland. Now that's very
Protestant of them! Bruce

Dr. Bruce Stewart
Languages & Lit.
University of Ulster
Coleraine, Co. Derry
N. Ireland BT52 1SA
www.ricorso.net



-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
Behalf Of Anthony Mcnicholas
Sent: 10 December 2007 22:01
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black


Has anyone mentioned the Royal Black Institution or Black Preceptory?
Would this have any relevance for black as protestant? anthony

Dr Anthony McNicholas
CAMRI
University of Westminster
Harrow Campus
Watford Road
Harrow
HA1 3TP
0118 948 6164 (BBC WAC)

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Don MacRaild
Subject: Re: Black
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Bruce, a minor corrective (mostly for our non Ireland/UK chums)

The Black Country is the coal-mining and iron-working region of
the industrial Midlands, which isn't the nort of England.

To the north of that, but still in the Midlands, is the Potteries.

No prizes for guessing how either of these Midlands' micro-regions
got their names!

Cheers,

Don MacRaild
Ulster (too).


----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick O'Sullivan"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:52 PM
Subject: [IR-D] Black


> From: "Bruce Stewart"
> To: "'The Irish Diaspora Studies List'"
> Subject: RE: [IR-D] Black
> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:36:22 -0000
>
> I think that the industrial north of England is also known as the 'Black
> Country'. The Black Hills of Dakota is probably due to the coloration
> rather than that of the inhabitants. 'Very protestant' is common
> parlance for a well-done job here in Ulster. 'Straight as a Protestant
> spire' is in Patrick Kavanagh. As a taigue with a proddish name I own up
> to be slack and lazy. The UK is still the longest working week in the
> EU, with ROI second. That surprised me. I thought the Celtic tiger had
> surpassed the inventors of factory hours and then some. All the
> stereotypes are up for revision, right enough. You've got to give it to
> the Poles - taking four out of five new jobs in Ireland. Now that's very
> Protestant of them! Bruce
>
> Dr. Bruce Stewart
> Languages & Lit.
> University of Ulster
> Coleraine, Co. Derry
> N. Ireland BT52 1SA
> www.ricorso.net
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
> Behalf Of Anthony Mcnicholas
> Sent: 10 December 2007 22:01
> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black
>
>
> Has anyone mentioned the Royal Black Institution or Black Preceptory?
> Would this have any relevance for black as protestant? anthony
>
> Dr Anthony McNicholas
> CAMRI
> University of Westminster
> Harrow Campus
> Watford Road
> Harrow
> HA1 3TP
> 0118 948 6164 (BBC WAC)
>
>

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Bruce Stewart
Subject: Re: Origin of the term 'Black '47'
In-Reply-To:
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Robert

Sounds right - it was a black year, after all. Vide Liam O'Flaherty's
novel-version of events The Famine (1837) and - proleptic vision -
William Carleton's The Black Prophet in the very year of 1847.=20

Beyond that, one might as well ask why 'blood is red and grass is
green'. An American origin is likely enough on demographics alone but
the prize goes to s/he who finds the first instance of the phrase.=20

Bruce
=20


-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
Behalf Of Robert Grace
Sent: 07 December 2007 15:12
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Origin of the term 'Black '47'


from Robert J. Grace
Universit=E9 Laval, Qu=E9bec

I have no documentary evidence for this and I agree that the blight made
the potatoes black but I have heard that the bodies of people who died
of typhus that year turned a blackish colour shortly after death. Robert
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Patrick Fitzgerald"
To:
Sent: Friday, December 07, 2007 6:12 AM
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Origin of the term 'Black '47'


Paddy,
Yes I thought of those works but could not find any discussion of the
chosen title which might lead to the origins of the term. I agree with
you on the semantics of Black and I suspect an origin in North America,
possibly before 1870, but thanks for putting the query out and for
sharing your own thoughts with me. I should try Chris Morash as you
suggest. Many thanks, Paddy

-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
Behalf Of Patrick O'Sullivan
Sent: 07 December 2007 10:51
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: [IR-D] Origin of the term 'Black '47'

Paddy F.

I should apologise - I should not have allowed this message through
without seeking clarification.

For example, my own impulse would be to take down books by Cormac O
Grada and Frank Neal who have used the phrase in titles - and see what
they have to say. But presumably you have already done that.

I would see the phrase as arising out of normal use of the English word
'black' to mean baneful, disastrous, sinister (OED) - see the long
sequence of black days we have had in recent economic history. Think of
Carleton, The Black Prophet.

As an aside, I have been criticised in discussion for using the phrase,
Black '47, because I was thereby continuing to associate the word
'black' with something sinister. I was quoting a book title. I did
wonder at that point when exactly the phrase began to be used - and
obviously thought of C19th rhetoric.

The phrase was clearly current at the beginning of the C20th - it is
used by Shaw in Man and Superman...

MALONE. ...Me father died of starvation in Ireland in the black 47.
Maybe youve heard of it. VIOLET. The Famine? MALONE [with smouldering
passion] No, the starvation. When a country is full o food, and
exporting it, there can be no famine. Me father was starved dead; and I
was starved out to America in me mother's arms.

Text from Bartleby.

Thinking further about Dymphna Lonergan's thought... Cormac O Grada
does look at the word dubh, black, in song and poetry. For example in
Peatsai O Callanain, 'The White Potatoes', sometimes remembered as 'The
Ballad of the Black Potatoes'.

=D3 Gr=E1da, Cormac. 1999. Black '47 and beyond. Princeton, N.J: =
Princeton
University Press, p. 217.

It is indeed difficult to talk about what happens to the potatoes
without using the word, black - when the fungus strikes, they go black.

But I think we are looking at normal, English use of the word, black.
It is easy to see that talk of 'that black year' would lead in time to
talk of Black '47, as the need arose to specify which particular black
year... But quite when that happened I do not know.

Christopher Morash might know.

Patrick O'Sullivan



-----Original Message-----
To: IR-D Jiscmail
Subject: Origin of the term 'Black '47'

From: "Patrick Fitzgerald"
To: "The Irish Diaspora Studies List"
Cc: "Brian Lambkin"

Paddy,

We have a query you might float for us on the list.

Does anyone have any information relating to the origin of the term
'Black '47'?

Hope you are keeping well,

Paddy Fitzgerald CMS UAFP

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Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: D C Rose
Subject: George Moore
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A number of readers will be interested in the posting on
www.oscholars.comof the second bulletin of George Moore studies
_Moorings_, edited by Dr Mark
Llewellyn of the University of Liverpool.

David

--
D.C. Rose
1 rue Gutenberg
75015 Paris
www.oscholars.com

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Elizabeth Malcolm
Subject: Black
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With regard to William Carleton's 'Black Prophet', it was not about the Great Famine
and nor was it first published in 1847. It was set during the earlier famines that
Carleton had witnessed as a young man in 1817 and 1822 and it was first serialised
in the 'Dublin University Magazine' between May and Dec. 1846, before appearing in
book form in 1847. But Carleton did dedicate the book to the then prime minister,
Lord John Russell, rebuking him for his policies towards Ireland. Perhaps this is
why a lot of people assume the story is about the Great Famine, Indeed, I notice
that the entry on Carleton in Robert Hogan's dictionary of Irish literature (1979)
says this (p.145). But the first sentence mentions that the story is set some 20 odd
years ago.

The colour black certainly figures strongly in the novel, the Black Prophet being
'Donnel Dhu'and some of the novel being set in 'Glendhu'. Carelton's biographer,
Benedict Kiely, says about the book: 'Skies black with ominous thunder clouds,
fields black where the roots and plants had rotted in the furrows, roads black with
the weary processions of death. The terrible word repeats itself again and again and
again like a recurring lament, the negation of colour, the negation of all life'.
(p.124) I think that encapsulates the power of the colour black for Carleton.

Actually, while looking at a list of Carleton's novels, I see that several others
have the word black in the title: 'The Black Baronet' and 'The Evil Eye: or the
Black Spectre'.

This of course also should remind us that there had been terrible, and perhaps even
worse, famines in Ireland before the 1840s. Many of those alive in the late 1840s
would have already survived several famines. And I always think that someone must do
a more detailed study of the 1740-1 famine - more detailed than David Dickson's
valuable but short booklet - which appears to have been worse than the Great Famine
a century later.

A couple of other thoughts on the subject black. Some of the diseases that were rife
during the late 1840s included symptoms of discoloured skin. That was true of
typhus, pellagra and erysipelas. In typhus particularly, which was probably the most
common famine disease, the skin could turn a very dark brown, almost black.

Also, with regard to the connection between black and potatoes, I'd recommend
Austin's Bourke's 'The Visitation of God?' (1993). He mentions a popular variety of
potato called the 'black potato' because of its dark skin, which seems to have the
type that was most severely affected by blight in the 1840s (33). But of course the
lumper, also called the 'white potato', was probably the most common in Ireland at
the time and the blight certainly turned it black and putrid.

Larry Geary from UCC gave a fascinating seminar paper here last year about the
smells of the Famine - horrible - made my skin crawl!

Elizabeth
__________________________________________________
Professor Elizabeth Malcolm

Gerry Higgins Chair of Irish Studies
School of Historical Studies ~ University of Melbourne ~ Victoria, 3010, AUSTRALIA
Phone: +61-3-83443924 ~ Email: e.malcolm[at]unimelb.edu.au

President
Irish Studies Association of Australia and New Zealand (ISAANZ)
Website: http://isaanz.org
__________________________________________________

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Jim Doan
Subject: Re: Black
In-Reply-To:
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Bruce's use of "that's very Protestant of them" reminds me of the former
parlance in the U.S.:
"that's very white of them." It probably boils down to the same types of
ethnic and racial stereotyping.

Jim Doan

-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]jiscmail.ac.uk] On Behalf
Of Don MacRaild
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:15 AM
To: IR-D[at]jiscmail.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black

Bruce, a minor corrective (mostly for our non Ireland/UK chums)

The Black Country is the coal-mining and iron-working region of
the industrial Midlands, which isn't the nort of England.

To the north of that, but still in the Midlands, is the Potteries.

No prizes for guessing how either of these Midlands' micro-regions
got their names!

Cheers,

Don MacRaild
Ulster (too).


----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick O'Sullivan"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:52 PM
Subject: [IR-D] Black


> From: "Bruce Stewart"
> To: "'The Irish Diaspora Studies List'"
> Subject: RE: [IR-D] Black
> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:36:22 -0000
>
> I think that the industrial north of England is also known as the 'Black
> Country'. The Black Hills of Dakota is probably due to the coloration
> rather than that of the inhabitants. 'Very protestant' is common
> parlance for a well-done job here in Ulster. 'Straight as a Protestant
> spire' is in Patrick Kavanagh. As a taigue with a proddish name I own up
> to be slack and lazy. The UK is still the longest working week in the
> EU, with ROI second. That surprised me. I thought the Celtic tiger had
> surpassed the inventors of factory hours and then some. All the
> stereotypes are up for revision, right enough. You've got to give it to
> the Poles - taking four out of five new jobs in Ireland. Now that's very
> Protestant of them! Bruce
>
> Dr. Bruce Stewart
> Languages & Lit.
> University of Ulster
> Coleraine, Co. Derry
> N. Ireland BT52 1SA
> www.ricorso.net
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
> Behalf Of Anthony Mcnicholas
> Sent: 10 December 2007 22:01
> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black
>
>
> Has anyone mentioned the Royal Black Institution or Black Preceptory?
> Would this have any relevance for black as protestant? anthony
>
> Dr Anthony McNicholas
> CAMRI
> University of Westminster
> Harrow Campus
> Watford Road
> Harrow
> HA1 3TP
> 0118 948 6164 (BBC WAC)
>
>

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Use of phrase Black '47 - 19th Century British Library Newspapers
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

From: Patrick O'Sullivan [mailto:P.OSullivan[at]bradford.ac.uk]

I now have access to the 19th Century British Library Newspapers collection
online at the British Library - see earlier IR-D messages...

48 newspapers are represented, including 2 from Ireland, 1 from Belfast, 1
from Dublin...

Belfast News-Letter
Full-Text Coverage: Jan 1 1828 - Dec 31 1900

Freeman's Journal
Full-Text Coverage: Jan 1 1820 - Sep 29 1900

Whilst I was chasing my own research material I thought I would see how far
we could get with searching for uses of this phrase 'Black '47' - and see
more earlier IR-D messages.

It is a difficult phrase to use, coaxing good results from this sort of
database.

Eventually I limited my search to full text searches of the 2 Irish papers,
and found regular use of the phrase from January 1879 onwards, in contexts
where it is clear that the phrase is already widely used.

Some examples below...

The phrase often appears in speeches or comments, 'Not since Black '47',
'reminds one of Black '47'...

An interesting one is in HONOUR TO WHOM HONOUR IS DUE, a letter about
Dufferin's donations to famine relief, which refers to John O'Rourke,
History of the Great Famine of 1847, first published in 1875, I think.

O'Rourke's text is on Gutenberg, so that you can search for his use of the
words black and '47. He does not seem to use them together, but does often
refer to 'the famine of '47'.

P.O'S.


METEOROLOGICAL REPORTS
Freeman's Journal and Daily Commercial Advertiser (Dublin, Ireland), Friday,
January 24, 1879; Issue N/A.

HONOUR TO WHOM HONOUR IS DUE
Freeman's Journal and Daily Commercial Advertiser (Dublin, Ireland), Friday,
January 31, 1879; Issue N/A.

THE LAND QUESTION
Freeman's Journal and Daily Commercial Advertiser (Dublin, Ireland), Friday,
September 26, 1879; Issue N/A.

HONOUR TO WHOM HONOUR IS DUE
Freeman's Journal and Daily Commercial Advertiser (Dublin, Ireland), Friday,
January 31, 1879; Issue N/A.

THE NATIONAL CAUSE
Freeman's Journal and Daily Commercial Advertiser (Dublin, Ireland), Monday,
September 15, 1884; Issue N/A.

Etc, etc...