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8241  
13 December 2007 12:32  
  
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 12:32:55 -0600 Reply-To: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [IR-DLOG0712.txt]
  
Re: Black
  
Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "Rogers, James"
Subject: Re: Black
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

I was just about to complain that this thread has wandered too far afield,
but now can't resist -- The Urban Dictionary website -- which can be
astoundingly vulgar--offers as its first definition of "mighty white":

1 to do an act of kindness for another

"hey bro, that was mighty white of you to water my plants while i was away"

(Incidentally, that particular posting on the site was submitted by someone
signing himself as Dark Lord of the Anus. Perhaps skepticism is indicated)

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Bradley [mailto:j.m.bradley[at]STIR.AC.UK]
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 11:44 AM
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black

Jim/anyone

Could you enlighten us as to the use of that particular phrase?

"that's very white of them."

Joe

________________________________

From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List on behalf of Jim Doan
Sent: Thu 13/12/2007 15:40
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black



Bruce's use of "that's very Protestant of them" reminds me of the former
parlance in the U.S.:
"that's very white of them." It probably boils down to the same types of
ethnic and racial stereotyping.

Jim Doan

-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]jiscmail.ac.uk] On Behalf
Of Don MacRaild
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:15 AM
To: IR-D[at]jiscmail.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black

Bruce, a minor corrective (mostly for our non Ireland/UK chums)

The Black Country is the coal-mining and iron-working region of
the industrial Midlands, which isn't the nort of England.

To the north of that, but still in the Midlands, is the Potteries.

No prizes for guessing how either of these Midlands' micro-regions
got their names!

Cheers,

Don MacRaild
Ulster (too).


----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick O'Sullivan"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:52 PM
Subject: [IR-D] Black


> From: "Bruce Stewart"
> To: "'The Irish Diaspora Studies List'"
> Subject: RE: [IR-D] Black
> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:36:22 -0000
>
> I think that the industrial north of England is also known as the 'Black
> Country'. The Black Hills of Dakota is probably due to the coloration
> rather than that of the inhabitants. 'Very protestant' is common
> parlance for a well-done job here in Ulster. 'Straight as a Protestant
> spire' is in Patrick Kavanagh. As a taigue with a proddish name I own up
> to be slack and lazy. The UK is still the longest working week in the
> EU, with ROI second. That surprised me. I thought the Celtic tiger had
> surpassed the inventors of factory hours and then some. All the
> stereotypes are up for revision, right enough. You've got to give it to
> the Poles - taking four out of five new jobs in Ireland. Now that's very
> Protestant of them! Bruce
>
> Dr. Bruce Stewart
> Languages & Lit.
> University of Ulster
> Coleraine, Co. Derry
> N. Ireland BT52 1SA
> www.ricorso.net
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
> Behalf Of Anthony Mcnicholas
> Sent: 10 December 2007 22:01
> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black
>
>
> Has anyone mentioned the Royal Black Institution or Black Preceptory?
> Would this have any relevance for black as protestant? anthony
>
> Dr Anthony McNicholas
> CAMRI
> University of Westminster
> Harrow Campus
> Watford Road
> Harrow
> HA1 3TP
> 0118 948 6164 (BBC WAC)
>
>



--
The University of Stirling is a university established in Scotland by
charter at Stirling, FK9 4LA. Privileged/Confidential Information may
be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated
in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such
person), you may not disclose, copy or deliver this message to anyone
and any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
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 TOP
8242  
13 December 2007 13:33  
  
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:33:33 -0500 Reply-To: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [IR-DLOG0712.txt]
  
Re: Black
  
Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Carmel McCaffrey
Subject: Re: Black
In-Reply-To:
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Correction:

Joe,
The phrase is certainly NOT unique to the US - I heard it growing up in
Ireland and also on British TV. It's the "white man's burden" mentality
and I assumed dated to the imperialist days of empire. That "white" is
superior and will act accordingly. It's the same as "it's the British
thing to do" i.e. the "supposed" decent thing - which comes up
frequently on TV comedy show and only recently I heard it on one of Judi
Dench's BBC comedies.

Carmel
Joe Bradley wrote:
> Jim/anyone
>
> Could you enlighten us as to the use of that particular phrase?
>
> "that's very white of them."
>
> Joe
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List on behalf of Jim Doan
> Sent: Thu 13/12/2007 15:40
> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black
>
>
>
> Bruce's use of "that's very Protestant of them" reminds me of the former
> parlance in the U.S.:
> "that's very white of them." It probably boils down to the same types of
> ethnic and racial stereotyping.
>
> Jim Doan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]jiscmail.ac.uk] On Behalf
> Of Don MacRaild
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:15 AM
> To: IR-D[at]jiscmail.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black
>
> Bruce, a minor corrective (mostly for our non Ireland/UK chums)
>
> The Black Country is the coal-mining and iron-working region of
> the industrial Midlands, which isn't the nort of England.
>
> To the north of that, but still in the Midlands, is the Potteries.
>
> No prizes for guessing how either of these Midlands' micro-regions
> got their names!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Don MacRaild
> Ulster (too).
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Patrick O'Sullivan"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:52 PM
> Subject: [IR-D] Black
>
>
>
>> From: "Bruce Stewart"
>> To: "'The Irish Diaspora Studies List'"
>> Subject: RE: [IR-D] Black
>> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:36:22 -0000
>>
>> I think that the industrial north of England is also known as the 'Black
>> Country'. The Black Hills of Dakota is probably due to the coloration
>> rather than that of the inhabitants. 'Very protestant' is common
>> parlance for a well-done job here in Ulster. 'Straight as a Protestant
>> spire' is in Patrick Kavanagh. As a taigue with a proddish name I own up
>> to be slack and lazy. The UK is still the longest working week in the
>> EU, with ROI second. That surprised me. I thought the Celtic tiger had
>> surpassed the inventors of factory hours and then some. All the
>> stereotypes are up for revision, right enough. You've got to give it to
>> the Poles - taking four out of five new jobs in Ireland. Now that's very
>> Protestant of them! Bruce
>>
>> Dr. Bruce Stewart
>> Languages & Lit.
>> University of Ulster
>> Coleraine, Co. Derry
>> N. Ireland BT52 1SA
>> www.ricorso.net
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
>> Behalf Of Anthony Mcnicholas
>> Sent: 10 December 2007 22:01
>> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
>> Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black
>>
>>
>> Has anyone mentioned the Royal Black Institution or Black Preceptory?
>> Would this have any relevance for black as protestant? anthony
>>
>> Dr Anthony McNicholas
>> CAMRI
>> University of Westminster
>> Harrow Campus
>> Watford Road
>> Harrow
>> HA1 3TP
>> 0118 948 6164 (BBC WAC)
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
 TOP
8243  
13 December 2007 13:50  
  
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 13:50:43 -0500 Reply-To: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [IR-DLOG0712.txt]
  
Re: Black
  
Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Jim Doan
Subject: Re: Black
In-Reply-To:
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Dear Joe,

From Wikipedia: "Play the white man is a term used in parts of England
meaning to be decent and trustworthy in one's actions. The term is
considered by some to be derogatory against non-white people because they
believe it carries the implication that only Caucasians are decent and
trustworthy. Originating in colonial England, the term is losing popularity
in common parlance. A similar expression in the southern United States is
"That's mighty white of you," meaning, "Thank you for being fair." The term
"play," in African American slang, can sometimes mean "cheat" or "swindle,"
and "the white man" is often a reference by minorities for the historical
collective oppression of Caucasians upon non-Caucasians. Thus if used by
non-whites, the term "play the white man" may carry a connotation of "cheat
the oppressor." A reference is also given there to an article published at
Goldsmith College dealing with the use of this term in sport (specifically
soccer).

And from "Mother Tongue Annoyances" (http://www.mtannoyances.com), "The
slang expression 'That's mighty white of you' evidently means that your
action was magnanimous in some way, shape or manner to the racist in
question. However, it doesn't take an IQ much higher than room temperature
to notice that this expression is horrendously insulting and ought to be
avoided at all costs. The Phrase Finder Web site has this to say regarding
this repulsive phrase (I've made minor formatting changes to their text):
Does anyone know the origin? I would guess the Old South. 'Mighty white of
you' referring to the perceived superiority of the white race over others.
Another phrase along that line -"free, white and [over] 21" - meaning
someone with the freedom to do anything that he or she wants... The phrase
has an entry in Eric Partridge's "A Dictionary of Catch Phrases: American
and British, from the Sixteenth Century to the Present Day," which says it's
of 20th-century origin... "Orig. Southern US, it soon became gen. U.S., and
has been heard in UK since the 1930s, often with an understood implication
of its origin. Of the U.S. usage, Prof. John W. Clark, 1977, has noted that
it was, at first, used seriously-'like a white man, not like a Negro. Now
used everywhere, by everyone to anyone, but always jestingly (and sometimes
sarcastically), and with full consciousness that it is a provincial
expression-and NOT racist'. . . . [British usage:] Sometimes, in the
services, parodying the legendary British Empire builders, 'Sir, you're a
white man!'"

Apparently, the expression is still quite widespread in U.S. (particularly
Southern) parlance.

Jim Doan

-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]jiscmail.ac.uk] On Behalf
Of Joe Bradley
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 12:44 PM
To: IR-D[at]jiscmail.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black

Jim/anyone

Could you enlighten us as to the use of that particular phrase?

"that's very white of them."

Joe

________________________________

From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List on behalf of Jim Doan
Sent: Thu 13/12/2007 15:40
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black



Bruce's use of "that's very Protestant of them" reminds me of the former
parlance in the U.S.:
"that's very white of them." It probably boils down to the same types of
ethnic and racial stereotyping.

Jim Doan

-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]jiscmail.ac.uk] On Behalf
Of Don MacRaild
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:15 AM
To: IR-D[at]jiscmail.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black

Bruce, a minor corrective (mostly for our non Ireland/UK chums)

The Black Country is the coal-mining and iron-working region of
the industrial Midlands, which isn't the nort of England.

To the north of that, but still in the Midlands, is the Potteries.

No prizes for guessing how either of these Midlands' micro-regions
got their names!

Cheers,

Don MacRaild
Ulster (too).


----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick O'Sullivan"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:52 PM
Subject: [IR-D] Black


> From: "Bruce Stewart"
> To: "'The Irish Diaspora Studies List'"
> Subject: RE: [IR-D] Black
> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:36:22 -0000
>
> I think that the industrial north of England is also known as the 'Black
> Country'. The Black Hills of Dakota is probably due to the coloration
> rather than that of the inhabitants. 'Very protestant' is common
> parlance for a well-done job here in Ulster. 'Straight as a Protestant
> spire' is in Patrick Kavanagh. As a taigue with a proddish name I own up
> to be slack and lazy. The UK is still the longest working week in the
> EU, with ROI second. That surprised me. I thought the Celtic tiger had
> surpassed the inventors of factory hours and then some. All the
> stereotypes are up for revision, right enough. You've got to give it to
> the Poles - taking four out of five new jobs in Ireland. Now that's very
> Protestant of them! Bruce
>
> Dr. Bruce Stewart
> Languages & Lit.
> University of Ulster
> Coleraine, Co. Derry
> N. Ireland BT52 1SA
> www.ricorso.net
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
> Behalf Of Anthony Mcnicholas
> Sent: 10 December 2007 22:01
> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black
>
>
> Has anyone mentioned the Royal Black Institution or Black Preceptory?
> Would this have any relevance for black as protestant? anthony
>
> Dr Anthony McNicholas
> CAMRI
> University of Westminster
> Harrow Campus
> Watford Road
> Harrow
> HA1 3TP
> 0118 948 6164 (BBC WAC)
>
>



--
The University of Stirling is a university established in Scotland by
charter at Stirling, FK9 4LA. Privileged/Confidential Information may
be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated
in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such
person), you may not disclose, copy or deliver this message to anyone
and any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. In such case, you should destroy this
message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise
immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email
for messages of this kind.
 TOP
8244  
13 December 2007 14:26  
  
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:26:46 -0500 Reply-To: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [IR-DLOG0712.txt]
  
Re: Black
  
Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Jim Doan
Subject: Re: Black
In-Reply-To:
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

As my fuller response indicates, I think the term is generally used
sarcastically, at least to my recollection.

James E. Doan, Ph.D.
Professor of Humanities, Humanities Major Chair and
President, South Florida Irish Studies Consortium, Inc.
Nova Southeastern University
3301 College Avenue
Davie/Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33314
954-262-8207; Fax: 954-262-3881


-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]jiscmail.ac.uk] On Behalf
Of Rogers, James
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 1:33 PM
To: IR-D[at]jiscmail.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black

I was just about to complain that this thread has wandered too far afield,
but now can't resist -- The Urban Dictionary website -- which can be
astoundingly vulgar--offers as its first definition of "mighty white":

1 to do an act of kindness for another

"hey bro, that was mighty white of you to water my plants while i was away"

(Incidentally, that particular posting on the site was submitted by someone
signing himself as Dark Lord of the Anus. Perhaps skepticism is indicated)

JR

-----Original Message-----
From: Joe Bradley [mailto:j.m.bradley[at]STIR.AC.UK]
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 11:44 AM
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black

Jim/anyone

Could you enlighten us as to the use of that particular phrase?

"that's very white of them."

Joe

________________________________

From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List on behalf of Jim Doan
Sent: Thu 13/12/2007 15:40
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black



Bruce's use of "that's very Protestant of them" reminds me of the former
parlance in the U.S.:
"that's very white of them." It probably boils down to the same types of
ethnic and racial stereotyping.

Jim Doan

-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]jiscmail.ac.uk] On Behalf
Of Don MacRaild
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:15 AM
To: IR-D[at]jiscmail.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black

Bruce, a minor corrective (mostly for our non Ireland/UK chums)

The Black Country is the coal-mining and iron-working region of
the industrial Midlands, which isn't the nort of England.

To the north of that, but still in the Midlands, is the Potteries.

No prizes for guessing how either of these Midlands' micro-regions
got their names!

Cheers,

Don MacRaild
Ulster (too).


----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick O'Sullivan"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:52 PM
Subject: [IR-D] Black


> From: "Bruce Stewart"
> To: "'The Irish Diaspora Studies List'"
> Subject: RE: [IR-D] Black
> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:36:22 -0000
>
> I think that the industrial north of England is also known as the 'Black
> Country'. The Black Hills of Dakota is probably due to the coloration
> rather than that of the inhabitants. 'Very protestant' is common
> parlance for a well-done job here in Ulster. 'Straight as a Protestant
> spire' is in Patrick Kavanagh. As a taigue with a proddish name I own up
> to be slack and lazy. The UK is still the longest working week in the
> EU, with ROI second. That surprised me. I thought the Celtic tiger had
> surpassed the inventors of factory hours and then some. All the
> stereotypes are up for revision, right enough. You've got to give it to
> the Poles - taking four out of five new jobs in Ireland. Now that's very
> Protestant of them! Bruce
>
> Dr. Bruce Stewart
> Languages & Lit.
> University of Ulster
> Coleraine, Co. Derry
> N. Ireland BT52 1SA
> www.ricorso.net
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
> Behalf Of Anthony Mcnicholas
> Sent: 10 December 2007 22:01
> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black
>
>
> Has anyone mentioned the Royal Black Institution or Black Preceptory?
> Would this have any relevance for black as protestant? anthony
>
> Dr Anthony McNicholas
> CAMRI
> University of Westminster
> Harrow Campus
> Watford Road
> Harrow
> HA1 3TP
> 0118 948 6164 (BBC WAC)
>
>



--
The University of Stirling is a university established in Scotland by
charter at Stirling, FK9 4LA. Privileged/Confidential Information may
be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated
in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such
person), you may not disclose, copy or deliver this message to anyone
and any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. In such case, you should destroy this
message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise
immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email
for messages of this kind.
 TOP
8245  
13 December 2007 14:33  
  
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 14:33:50 -0600 Reply-To: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [IR-DLOG0712.txt]
  
Summer Writing programs
  
Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "Rogers, James"
Subject: Summer Writing programs
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain

If I can divert us from our discussion of black & white for a moment:

Does anyone know if there is a listing of the various summer writing
programs in Ireland. anywhere on the web?

Or for the various summer schools in Ireland, for that matter .

This follows on a query from a VP at my university who wants to give his son
such a trip for a Christmas present. (And how do you get a dad like that?)

Jim Rogers
New Hibernia Review
 TOP
8246  
13 December 2007 15:08  
  
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:08:03 -0000 Reply-To: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [IR-DLOG0712.txt]
  
Re: Costumes for Playboy of the Western World
  
Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Bruce Stewart
Subject: Re: Costumes for Playboy of the Western World
In-Reply-To:
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

A good guide (but no rule) wd be the costumes used in the recent Druid
series of the complete plays of Synge. I saw only the Deirdre - just the
other night - and it was played by Conchubar in a doublebreasted suit
with some gongs added (Mick Lally, looking ancient), and the sons of
Usnech in scarlet jackets and night-out trousers making shapes like lads
out in Temple Bar.

The jackets are a case of colonial cross-over: they look more like
English officers in the colonial period than Irish half-sirs out of
Somerville & Ross but perhaps an equal amount of both. The effect was
good: you got a sense of their iron-age manliness without straining
after iron-age costumes. The CD series is boxed as DruidSynge and you'll
have to look at the Playboy in it - I haven't seen it and can't report.

You can see a snap of the Playboy production as it played in July 2006
in the NYTimes online at

http://theater2.nytimes.com/2006/07/12/theater/reviews/12drui.html

They aren't going for period authenticity in any of them. Stage
furniture and lighting counts for a lot in this stuff. One more thing:
Aaron Monaghan is turning into a classic Irish character-actor.

Dr. Bruce Stewart
Languages & Lit.
University of Ulster
Coleraine, Co. Derry
N. Ireland BT52 1SA
www.ricorso.net



-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
Behalf Of Matt O'Brien
Sent: 27 November 2007 19:19
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: [IR-D] Costumes for Playboy of the Western World


Hello,
My host institution will be preforming "Playboy of the Western World"
next spring. The wardrobe director has asked me about books or websites
that would offer pictures/illustrations of traditional clothes from that
period. Any suggestions? Thanks, Matt O'Brien
 TOP
8247  
13 December 2007 15:53  
  
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 15:53:39 -0000 Reply-To: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [IR-DLOG0712.txt]
  
Re: Use of phrase Black '47 - 19th Century British Library
  
Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick Fitzgerald
Subject: Re: Use of phrase Black '47 - 19th Century British Library
Newspapers
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Paddy,
Thanks for this - which is very useful.
Though the precise origin of Black '47 remains elusive it has stimulated
some very interesting discussion.
Best,
Paddy

-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
Behalf Of Patrick O'Sullivan
Sent: 13 December 2007 11:59
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: [IR-D] Use of phrase Black '47 - 19th Century British Library
Newspapers

From: Patrick O'Sullivan [mailto:P.OSullivan[at]bradford.ac.uk]=0D

I now have access to the 19th Century British Library Newspapers
collection
online at the British Library - see earlier IR-D messages...

48 newspapers are represented, including 2 from Ireland, 1 from Belfast,
1
from Dublin...

Belfast News-Letter =0D
Full-Text Coverage: Jan 1 1828 - Dec 31 1900

Freeman's Journal =0D
Full-Text Coverage: Jan 1 1820 - Sep 29 1900

Whilst I was chasing my own research material I thought I would see how
far
we could get with searching for uses of this phrase 'Black '47' - and
see
more earlier IR-D messages.

It is a difficult phrase to use, coaxing good results from this sort of
database.

Eventually I limited my search to full text searches of the 2 Irish
papers,
and found regular use of the phrase from January 1879 onwards, in
contexts
where it is clear that the phrase is already widely used.

Some examples below...

The phrase often appears in speeches or comments, 'Not since Black '47',
'reminds one of Black '47'...

An interesting one is in HONOUR TO WHOM HONOUR IS DUE, a letter about
Dufferin's donations to famine relief, which refers to John O'Rourke,
History of the Great Famine of 1847, first published in 1875, I think.

O'Rourke's text is on Gutenberg, so that you can search for his use of
the
words black and '47. He does not seem to use them together, but does
often
refer to 'the famine of '47'.

P.O'S.


METEOROLOGICAL REPORTS
Freeman's Journal and Daily Commercial Advertiser (Dublin, Ireland),
Friday,
January 24, 1879; Issue N/A.

HONOUR TO WHOM HONOUR IS DUE
Freeman's Journal and Daily Commercial Advertiser (Dublin, Ireland),
Friday,
January 31, 1879; Issue N/A.

THE LAND QUESTION
Freeman's Journal and Daily Commercial Advertiser (Dublin, Ireland),
Friday,
September 26, 1879; Issue N/A.

HONOUR TO WHOM HONOUR IS DUE
Freeman's Journal and Daily Commercial Advertiser (Dublin, Ireland),
Friday,
January 31, 1879; Issue N/A.

THE NATIONAL CAUSE
Freeman's Journal and Daily Commercial Advertiser (Dublin, Ireland),
Monday,
September 15, 1884; Issue N/A.

Etc, etc...

************************************************************************
=0D
National Museums Northern Ireland comprises the Ulster Museum, Ulster Folk=
and Transport Museum, Ulster American Folk Park, Armagh County Museum and=
W5.

The Ulster Museum is currently closed for major redevelopment. Details of=
the museum's programme of outreach activities during closure can be found=
at www.ulstermuseum.org.uk.

All our other sites are open as normal.


Any views expressed by the sender of this message are not necessarily those=
of the National Museums Northern Ireland. This email and any files=
transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or=
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 TOP
8248  
13 December 2007 17:43  
  
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 17:43:57 -0000 Reply-To: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [IR-DLOG0712.txt]
  
Re: Black
  
Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Joe Bradley
Subject: Re: Black
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jim/anyone
=20
Could you enlighten us as to the use of that particular phrase?
=20
"that's very white of them."
=20
Joe

________________________________

From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List on behalf of Jim Doan
Sent: Thu 13/12/2007 15:40
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black



Bruce's use of "that's very Protestant of them" reminds me of the former
parlance in the U.S.:
"that's very white of them." It probably boils down to the same types of
ethnic and racial stereotyping.

Jim Doan

-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]jiscmail.ac.uk] On Behalf
Of Don MacRaild
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:15 AM
To: IR-D[at]jiscmail.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black

Bruce, a minor corrective (mostly for our non Ireland/UK chums)

The Black Country is the coal-mining and iron-working region of
the industrial Midlands, which isn't the nort of England.

To the north of that, but still in the Midlands, is the Potteries.

No prizes for guessing how either of these Midlands' micro-regions
got their names!

Cheers,

Don MacRaild
Ulster (too).


----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick O'Sullivan"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:52 PM
Subject: [IR-D] Black


> From: "Bruce Stewart"
> To: "'The Irish Diaspora Studies List'"
> Subject: RE: [IR-D] Black
> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:36:22 -0000
>
> I think that the industrial north of England is also known as the 'Black
> Country'. The Black Hills of Dakota is probably due to the coloration
> rather than that of the inhabitants. 'Very protestant' is common
> parlance for a well-done job here in Ulster. 'Straight as a Protestant
> spire' is in Patrick Kavanagh. As a taigue with a proddish name I own up
> to be slack and lazy. The UK is still the longest working week in the
> EU, with ROI second. That surprised me. I thought the Celtic tiger had
> surpassed the inventors of factory hours and then some. All the
> stereotypes are up for revision, right enough. You've got to give it to
> the Poles - taking four out of five new jobs in Ireland. Now that's very
> Protestant of them! Bruce
>
> Dr. Bruce Stewart
> Languages & Lit.
> University of Ulster
> Coleraine, Co. Derry
> N. Ireland BT52 1SA
> www.ricorso.net
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
> Behalf Of Anthony Mcnicholas
> Sent: 10 December 2007 22:01
> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black
>
>
> Has anyone mentioned the Royal Black Institution or Black Preceptory?
> Would this have any relevance for black as protestant? anthony
>
> Dr Anthony McNicholas
> CAMRI
> University of Westminster
> Harrow Campus
> Watford Road
> Harrow
> HA1 3TP
> 0118 948 6164 (BBC WAC)
>
>



--=20
The University of Stirling is a university established in Scotland by
charter at Stirling, FK9 4LA. Privileged/Confidential Information may
be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated
in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such
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 TOP
8249  
13 December 2007 18:16  
  
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 18:16:17 -0330 Reply-To: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [IR-DLOG0712.txt]
  
Re: Use of phrase Black '47 - 19th Century British Library
  
Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Peter Hart
Subject: Re: Use of phrase Black '47 - 19th Century British Library
Newspapers
Comments: To: Patrick Fitzgerald
In-Reply-To:
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

I was just reading the civil war letters of Ernie O'Malley, which contains a
reference to 'Black '48'...

Peter Hart

Quoting Patrick Fitzgerald :

> Paddy,
> Thanks for this - which is very useful.
> Though the precise origin of Black '47 remains elusive it has stimulated
> some very interesting discussion.
> Best,
> Paddy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
> Behalf Of Patrick O'Sullivan
> Sent: 13 December 2007 11:59
> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Subject: [IR-D] Use of phrase Black '47 - 19th Century British Library
> Newspapers
>
> From: Patrick O'Sullivan [mailto:P.OSullivan[at]bradford.ac.uk]

>
> I now have access to the 19th Century British Library Newspapers
> collection
> online at the British Library - see earlier IR-D messages...
>
> 48 newspapers are represented, including 2 from Ireland, 1 from Belfast,
> 1
> from Dublin...
>
> Belfast News-Letter

> Full-Text Coverage: Jan 1 1828 - Dec 31 1900
>
> Freeman's Journal

> Full-Text Coverage: Jan 1 1820 - Sep 29 1900
>
> Whilst I was chasing my own research material I thought I would see how
> far
> we could get with searching for uses of this phrase 'Black '47' - and
> see
> more earlier IR-D messages.
>
> It is a difficult phrase to use, coaxing good results from this sort of
> database.
>
> Eventually I limited my search to full text searches of the 2 Irish
> papers,
> and found regular use of the phrase from January 1879 onwards, in
> contexts
> where it is clear that the phrase is already widely used.
>
> Some examples below...
>
> The phrase often appears in speeches or comments, 'Not since Black '47',
> 'reminds one of Black '47'...
>
> An interesting one is in HONOUR TO WHOM HONOUR IS DUE, a letter about
> Dufferin's donations to famine relief, which refers to John O'Rourke,
> History of the Great Famine of 1847, first published in 1875, I think.
>
> O'Rourke's text is on Gutenberg, so that you can search for his use of
> the
> words black and '47. He does not seem to use them together, but does
> often
> refer to 'the famine of '47'.
>
> P.O'S.
>
>
> METEOROLOGICAL REPORTS
> Freeman's Journal and Daily Commercial Advertiser (Dublin, Ireland),
> Friday,
> January 24, 1879; Issue N/A.
>
> HONOUR TO WHOM HONOUR IS DUE
> Freeman's Journal and Daily Commercial Advertiser (Dublin, Ireland),
> Friday,
> January 31, 1879; Issue N/A.
>
> THE LAND QUESTION
> Freeman's Journal and Daily Commercial Advertiser (Dublin, Ireland),
> Friday,
> September 26, 1879; Issue N/A.
>
> HONOUR TO WHOM HONOUR IS DUE
> Freeman's Journal and Daily Commercial Advertiser (Dublin, Ireland),
> Friday,
> January 31, 1879; Issue N/A.
>
> THE NATIONAL CAUSE
> Freeman's Journal and Daily Commercial Advertiser (Dublin, Ireland),
> Monday,
> September 15, 1884; Issue N/A.
>
> Etc, etc...
>
> ************************************************************************
>

> National Museums Northern Ireland comprises the Ulster Museum, Ulster Folk
> and Transport Museum, Ulster American Folk Park, Armagh County Museum and
> W5.
>
> The Ulster Museum is currently closed for major redevelopment. Details of
> the museum's programme of outreach activities during closure can be found at
> www.ulstermuseum.org.uk.
>
> All our other sites are open as normal.
>
>
> Any views expressed by the sender of this message are not necessarily those
> of the National Museums Northern Ireland. This email and any files
> transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or
> entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error
> please notify the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your
> email software.
>
> All emails are swept for the presence of viruses.
>
> ************************************************************************
>
 TOP
8250  
13 December 2007 22:20  
  
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:20:29 -0000 Reply-To: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [IR-DLOG0712.txt]
  
Re: Summer Writing programs
  
Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Sean McCartan
Subject: Re: Summer Writing programs
In-Reply-To:
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

James
Writers' week in Listowel is worth considering. Commences 28 May 2008.
Book a suitable course early:
http://www.writersweek.ie/

Sean

-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf
Of Rogers, James
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 8:34 PM
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: [IR-D] Summer Writing programs

If I can divert us from our discussion of black & white for a moment:

Does anyone know if there is a listing of the various summer writing
programs in Ireland. anywhere on the web?

Or for the various summer schools in Ireland, for that matter .

This follows on a query from a VP at my university who wants to give his son
such a trip for a Christmas present. (And how do you get a dad like that?)

Jim Rogers
New Hibernia Review


No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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 TOP
8251  
13 December 2007 22:25  
  
Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2007 22:25:53 +0000 Reply-To: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [IR-DLOG0712.txt]
  
Re: Black
  
Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Muiris Mag Ualghairg
Subject: Re: Black
In-Reply-To:
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Disposition: inline

My experience, in Britain, is that it is not used sarcastically at all but
rather is used to suggest that some one should be upstanding, honest,
hardworking etc, all the attributes which the racists don't believe that
Black people have. I have never heard it used by any Irish person, but since
Ireland has a problem with racists as well I wouldn't be surprised to find
that its use has spread to Ireland as well.

Since we are discussing racism, I just thought I would mention the feeling
here in Wales (amongst many) that as Ireland is an independent country and
so can prove that it has a different ethnicity it is no longer acceptable
for UK 'comedians' to use the 'stage Irish' as characters in their shows,
and the same on TV soaps etc, but that the Stupid Welshman has replaced the
'thick Irishman'.

Muiris


On 13/12/2007, Jim Doan wrote:
>
> As my fuller response indicates, I think the term is generally used
> sarcastically, at least to my recollection.
>
> James E. Doan, Ph.D.
> Professor of Humanities, Humanities Major Chair and
> President, South Florida Irish Studies Consortium, Inc.
> Nova Southeastern University
> 3301 College Avenue
> Davie/Ft. Lauderdale, FL 33314
> 954-262-8207; Fax: 954-262-3881
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]jiscmail.ac.uk] On
> Behalf
> Of Rogers, James
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 1:33 PM
> To: IR-D[at]jiscmail.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black
>
> I was just about to complain that this thread has wandered too far afield,
> but now can't resist -- The Urban Dictionary website -- which can be
> astoundingly vulgar--offers as its first definition of "mighty white":
>
> 1 to do an act of kindness for another
>
> "hey bro, that was mighty white of you to water my plants while i was
> away"
>
> (Incidentally, that particular posting on the site was submitted by
> someone
> signing himself as Dark Lord of the Anus. Perhaps skepticism is indicated)
>
> JR
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe Bradley [mailto:j.m.bradley[at]STIR.AC.UK]
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 11:44 AM
> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black
>
> Jim/anyone
>
> Could you enlighten us as to the use of that particular phrase?
>
> "that's very white of them."
>
> Joe
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List on behalf of Jim Doan
> Sent: Thu 13/12/2007 15:40
> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black
>
>
>
> Bruce's use of "that's very Protestant of them" reminds me of the former
> parlance in the U.S.:
> "that's very white of them." It probably boils down to the same types of
> ethnic and racial stereotyping.
>
> Jim Doan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]jiscmail.ac.uk] On
> Behalf
> Of Don MacRaild
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:15 AM
> To: IR-D[at]jiscmail.ac.uk
> Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black
>
> Bruce, a minor corrective (mostly for our non Ireland/UK chums)
>
> The Black Country is the coal-mining and iron-working region of
> the industrial Midlands, which isn't the nort of England.
>
> To the north of that, but still in the Midlands, is the Potteries.
>
> No prizes for guessing how either of these Midlands' micro-regions
> got their names!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Don MacRaild
> Ulster (too).
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Patrick O'Sullivan"
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:52 PM
> Subject: [IR-D] Black
>
>
> > From: "Bruce Stewart"
> > To: "'The Irish Diaspora Studies List'"
> > Subject: RE: [IR-D] Black
> > Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:36:22 -0000
> >
> > I think that the industrial north of England is also known as the 'Black
> > Country'. The Black Hills of Dakota is probably due to the coloration
> > rather than that of the inhabitants. 'Very protestant' is common
> > parlance for a well-done job here in Ulster. 'Straight as a Protestant
> > spire' is in Patrick Kavanagh. As a taigue with a proddish name I own up
> > to be slack and lazy. The UK is still the longest working week in the
> > EU, with ROI second. That surprised me. I thought the Celtic tiger had
> > surpassed the inventors of factory hours and then some. All the
> > stereotypes are up for revision, right enough. You've got to give it to
> > the Poles - taking four out of five new jobs in Ireland. Now that's very
> > Protestant of them! Bruce
> >
> > Dr. Bruce Stewart
> > Languages & Lit.
> > University of Ulster
> > Coleraine, Co. Derry
> > N. Ireland BT52 1SA
> > www.ricorso.net
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
> > Behalf Of Anthony Mcnicholas
> > Sent: 10 December 2007 22:01
> > To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> > Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black
> >
> >
> > Has anyone mentioned the Royal Black Institution or Black Preceptory?
> > Would this have any relevance for black as protestant? anthony
> >
> > Dr Anthony McNicholas
> > CAMRI
> > University of Westminster
> > Harrow Campus
> > Watford Road
> > Harrow
> > HA1 3TP
> > 0118 948 6164 (BBC WAC)
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> The University of Stirling is a university established in Scotland by
> charter at Stirling, FK9 4LA. Privileged/Confidential Information may
> be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated
> in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such
> person), you may not disclose, copy or deliver this message to anyone
> and any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
> prohibited and may be unlawful. In such case, you should destroy this
> message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise
> immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email
> for messages of this kind.
>
 TOP
8252  
14 December 2007 08:04  
  
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 08:04:44 -0500 Reply-To: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [IR-DLOG0712.txt]
  
Black
  
Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "David W. Miller"
Subject: Black
Comments: cc: "David W. Miller"
Mime-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit

My doctoral student Cian McMahon forwarded this correspondence to me. Let me
add just a few words to Jim Doan's comment.

Although I was born in Pennsylvania, I grew up in Jackson, Mississippi, and
did my undergraduate work at Rice University in Houston, Texas. In both
Mississippi and Texas in the 1950s and 1960s I remember frequently hearing
the expression "that's mighty white of you." The phrase was literally a
compliment to the person being addressed. However it was sometimes used
sarcastically to mock, say, an inadequate apology or miserly offer of
assistance.

David W. Miller
Professor of History
Carnegie Mellon University


---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black
From: "Joe Bradley"
Date: Thu, December 13, 2007 12:43 pm
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Jim/anyone

Could you enlighten us as to the use of that particular phrase?

"that's very white of them."

Joe

________________________________

From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List on behalf of Jim Doan
Sent: Thu 13/12/2007 15:40
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black



Bruce's use of "that's very Protestant of them" reminds me of the former
parlance in the U.S.:
"that's very white of them." It probably boils down to the same types of
ethnic and racial stereotyping.

Jim Doan

-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]jiscmail.ac.uk] On Behalf
Of Don MacRaild
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:15 AM
To: IR-D[at]jiscmail.ac.uk
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black

Bruce, a minor corrective (mostly for our non Ireland/UK chums)

The Black Country is the coal-mining and iron-working region of
the industrial Midlands, which isn't the nort of England.

To the north of that, but still in the Midlands, is the Potteries.

No prizes for guessing how either of these Midlands' micro-regions
got their names!

Cheers,

Don MacRaild
Ulster (too).


----- Original Message -----
From: "Patrick O'Sullivan"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 1:52 PM
Subject: [IR-D] Black


> From: "Bruce Stewart"
> To: "'The Irish Diaspora Studies List'"
> Subject: RE: [IR-D] Black
> Date: Wed, 12 Dec 2007 13:36:22 -0000
>
> I think that the industrial north of England is also known as the 'Black
> Country'. The Black Hills of Dakota is probably due to the coloration
> rather than that of the inhabitants. 'Very protestant' is common
> parlance for a well-done job here in Ulster. 'Straight as a Protestant
> spire' is in Patrick Kavanagh. As a taigue with a proddish name I own up
> to be slack and lazy. The UK is still the longest working week in the
> EU, with ROI second. That surprised me. I thought the Celtic tiger had
> surpassed the inventors of factory hours and then some. All the
> stereotypes are up for revision, right enough. You've got to give it to
> the Poles - taking four out of five new jobs in Ireland. Now that's very
> Protestant of them! Bruce
>
> Dr. Bruce Stewart
> Languages & Lit.
> University of Ulster
> Coleraine, Co. Derry
> N. Ireland BT52 1SA
> www.ricorso.net
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
> Behalf Of Anthony Mcnicholas
> Sent: 10 December 2007 22:01
> To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
> Subject: Re: [IR-D] Black
>
>
> Has anyone mentioned the Royal Black Institution or Black Preceptory?
> Would this have any relevance for black as protestant? anthony
>
> Dr Anthony McNicholas
> CAMRI
> University of Westminster
> Harrow Campus
> Watford Road
> Harrow
> HA1 3TP
> 0118 948 6164 (BBC WAC)
>
>



--
The University of Stirling is a university established in Scotland by
charter at Stirling, FK9 4LA. Privileged/Confidential Information may
be contained in this message. If you are not the addressee indicated
in this message (or responsible for delivery of the message to such
person), you may not disclose, copy or deliver this message to anyone
and any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is
prohibited and may be unlawful. In such case, you should destroy this
message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise
immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email
for messages of this kind.
 TOP
8253  
14 December 2007 08:38  
  
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 08:38:14 -0600 Reply-To: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [IR-DLOG0712.txt]
  
Re: Summer Writing programs
  
Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "Rogers, James"
Subject: Re: Summer Writing programs
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Paddy., you're amazin' -- Thanks for this and for all you do for te list,
which is a treasure

Jim


-----Original Message-----
From: Patrick O'Sullivan [mailto:P.OSullivan[at]BRADFORD.AC.UK]
Sent: Fri 12/14/2007 6:37 AM
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Summer Writing programs

In the early years of the Irish Diaspora list we used to receive and
distribute emails about Summer Schools and the like. But that was when the
web was less organised and less available, and we soon decided that there
was no point in duplicating effort...

We do keep an eye on lists of conference papers and the like, just to track
the early days of a research project.

Nowadays practically all the Summer Schools and Conferences have some sort
of web presence, and there are web sites that collect and display this
information...

Some obvious links pasted in below...

P.O'S.

http://www.goireland.com/

http://www.goireland.com/Scripts/low/xq/asp/cat.16/areatype.I/areaid.1/Subje
ctID.64/qx/listing.htm

lists 33 Summer Schools

http://www.dochara.com/play/events/summer-schools.php

has another list, as has...

Summer Study Abroad Opportunities in Ireland
http://www.studyabroad.com/programs/summer/ireland

The IASIL site is worthy staying in touch with...
http://www.iasil.org/newsletter/confs.html

And a web search for something like
summer schools in Ireland
will turn up many hits of specific meeting and meeting places.



-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf
Of Rogers, James
Sent: 13 December 2007 20:34
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: [IR-D] Summer Writing programs

If I can divert us from our discussion of black & white for a moment:

Does anyone know if there is a listing of the various summer writing
programs in Ireland. anywhere on the web?

Or for the various summer schools in Ireland, for that matter .

This follows on a query from a VP at my university who wants to give his son
such a trip for a Christmas present. (And how do you get a dad like that?)

Jim Rogers
New Hibernia Review
 TOP
8254  
14 December 2007 09:59  
  
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 09:59:26 -0000 Reply-To: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [IR-DLOG0712.txt]
  
Re: Black
  
Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Bruce Stewart
Subject: Re: Black
In-Reply-To:
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Elizabeth

Thanks for this! I think I was being short-hand when I placed Black
Prophet in 1847. The 'life' in Ricorso has this:

'[WC] travelled to England, where he was at the outbreak of the Great
Famine; issued The Black Prophet (1847), based on earlier famines of
1812 and 1822 and first published in eight parts in Dublin University
Magazine during 1846;

I have now added your note: 'published in book-form in with a dedication
to Lord Russell rebuking him for his policies towards Ireland.' Rafroidi
gives details:

The Black Prophet: A Tale of Irish Famine (London & Belfast: Simms &
McIntyre 1847), xi, 455pp. (prev. in Dublin University Magazine, May
1846, XXVII, 161, p.600, to Dec. 1846, XXVIII, 168, pp.717-47)

- and there is also an edition edited and intro'd by Timothy Webb [rep.
of 1847 edn.] (Shannon: IUP 1972), xix, xvi, 408pp.

I would note that BP was long 'taught' as a proleptic vision of the
famine, especially for its passage on the silence of the birds. This is,
pardon the phrase, Brendan Kennelly, sang pur. (His 'My Dark Fathers' is
a brilliant famine poem - and almost black from the view point of the
present topic.)

The dates make me think, however. Surely a publication of 1846 has the
famine of 1845 very much in view. I am not sure if Carleton wrote it in
England - his stay there was short, of course (following the Griffin
trail).

In point of detail, my record says famines of 1812 [sic] and 1822. I am
correcting this to 1817 on your information. I hope that is right?

It is true there were eighteenth century famines. If memory serves, the
terrible scenes in Pettigo in the 1760s were recorded by Rev. Thomas
Campbell. His Philosophical Survey of the South of Ireland (1778) is an
eccentric treasure. Fanciers of stereotypes will relish it:

'My picture of Ireland should be mulier formosa superne - a woman
exquisitely beautiful, with her head and neck richly attired, her bosom
full, but meanly dressed, her lower parts lean and emaciated,
half-covered with tattered weeds, her legs and feet bare, with burned
shins, and all the squalor of indigent sloth.'

He also ventured a defence of nudity, especially among the peasant
classes - a reference picked up by Spurgeon Thompson in 'Edmund Burke's
Reflections on the Revolution in France and the Subject of
Eurocentrism', Irish University Review, Autumn/Winter 2004, p.261
[ftn.].

It has always struck me as anomalous the Tyrone was particularly prone.
You would have thought with all that green-ness but apparently the humus
is poor and shallow (and, I suppose, waterlogged). One of the ironies of
famine history is the dearth of grain-crops raised in Ireland. The
climate favours tubors and cattle. Barley is, I think, the best crop;
wheat hardly at all and bread unknown in indigenous Ireland. I expect to
be corrected.

Bruce


Dr. Bruce Stewart
Languages & Lit.
University of Ulster
Coleraine, Co. Derry
N. Ireland BT52 1SA
www.ricorso.net



-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On
Behalf Of Elizabeth Malcolm
Sent: 12 December 2007 23:22
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: [IR-D] Black


With regard to William Carleton's 'Black Prophet', it was not about the
Great Famine and nor was it first published in 1847. It was set during
the earlier famines that Carleton had witnessed as a young man in 1817
and 1822 and it was first serialised in the 'Dublin University Magazine'
between May and Dec. 1846, before appearing in book form in 1847. But
Carleton did dedicate the book to the then prime minister, Lord John
Russell, rebuking him for his policies towards Ireland. Perhaps this is
why a lot of people assume the story is about the Great Famine, Indeed,
I notice that the entry on Carleton in Robert Hogan's dictionary of
Irish literature (1979) says this (p.145). But the first sentence
mentions that the story is set some 20 odd years ago.

The colour black certainly figures strongly in the novel, the Black
Prophet being 'Donnel Dhu'and some of the novel being set in 'Glendhu'.
Carelton's biographer, Benedict Kiely, says about the book: 'Skies black
with ominous thunder clouds, fields black where the roots and plants had
rotted in the furrows, roads black with the weary processions of death.
The terrible word repeats itself again and again and again like a
recurring lament, the negation of colour, the negation of all life'.
(p.124) I think that encapsulates the power of the colour black for
Carleton.

Actually, while looking at a list of Carleton's novels, I see that
several others have the word black in the title: 'The Black Baronet' and
'The Evil Eye: or the Black Spectre'.

This of course also should remind us that there had been terrible, and
perhaps even worse, famines in Ireland before the 1840s. Many of those
alive in the late 1840s would have already survived several famines. And
I always think that someone must do a more detailed study of the 1740-1
famine - more detailed than David Dickson's valuable but short booklet -
which appears to have been worse than the Great Famine a century later.

A couple of other thoughts on the subject black. Some of the diseases
that were rife during the late 1840s included symptoms of discoloured
skin. That was true of typhus, pellagra and erysipelas. In typhus
particularly, which was probably the most common famine disease, the
skin could turn a very dark brown, almost black.

Also, with regard to the connection between black and potatoes, I'd
recommend Austin's Bourke's 'The Visitation of God?' (1993). He mentions
a popular variety of potato called the 'black potato' because of its
dark skin, which seems to have the type that was most severely affected
by blight in the 1840s (33). But of course the lumper, also called the
'white potato', was probably the most common in Ireland at the time and
the blight certainly turned it black and putrid.

Larry Geary from UCC gave a fascinating seminar paper here last year
about the smells of the Famine - horrible - made my skin crawl!

Elizabeth
__________________________________________________
Professor Elizabeth Malcolm

Gerry Higgins Chair of Irish Studies
School of Historical Studies ~ University of Melbourne ~ Victoria, 3010,
AUSTRALIA
Phone: +61-3-83443924 ~ Email: e.malcolm[at]unimelb.edu.au

President
Irish Studies Association of Australia and New Zealand (ISAANZ)
Website: http://isaanz.org
__________________________________________________
 TOP
8255  
14 December 2007 10:02  
  
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:02:14 +1100 Reply-To: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [IR-DLOG0712.txt]
  
Black
  
Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Elizabeth Malcolm
Subject: Black
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

I have a copy of A.M. Sullivan's book,'New Ireland' - Sullivan became editor of the
'Nation' (1855-74), after Gavan Duffy left for Australia, and was a nationalist MP
(1874-82). My copy of the book is the 4th ed. published in 1878, but the book first
appeared in the previous year, 1877. Chapter VI is titled 'The Black Forty-Seven'.

This book and Sullivan's other works were widely read in Ireland and among the Irish
overseas, so I could see his use of the term helping to popularise it. Might be
worth checking when the 'Nation' started to refer to 'Black '47'.

Elizabeth
__________________________________________________
Professor Elizabeth Malcolm

Gerry Higgins Chair of Irish Studies
School of Historical Studies ~ University of Melbourne ~ Victoria, 3010, AUSTRALIA
Phone: +61-3-83443924 ~ Email: e.malcolm[at]unimelb.edu.au

President
Irish Studies Association of Australia and New Zealand (ISAANZ)
Website: http://isaanz.org
__________________________________________________
 TOP
8256  
14 December 2007 10:49  
  
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:49:25 +0000 Reply-To: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [IR-DLOG0712.txt]
  
Re: Summer Writing programs
  
Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Ultan Cowley
Organization: Eircom Net (http://www.eircom.net/)
Subject: Re: Summer Writing programs
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Has anyone else ever wondered why it is that Listowel, home of the ubiquitous Writers' Week, and of two such famous literary native sons, can't actually support a proper bookshop?

Ultan












The Irish Diaspora Studies List wrote:

<
< James
< Writers' week in Listowel is worth considering. Commences 28 May 2008.
< Book a suitable course early:
< http://www.writersweek.ie/
<
< Sean
<
< -----Original Message-----
< From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf
< Of Rogers, James
< Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 8:34 PM
< To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
< Subject: [IR-D] Summer Writing programs
<
< If I can divert us from our discussion of black & white for a moment:
<
< Does anyone know if there is a listing of the various summer writing
< programs in Ireland. anywhere on the web?
<
< Or for the various summer schools in Ireland, for that matter .
<
< This follows on a query from a VP at my university who wants to give his son
< such a trip for a Christmas present. (And how do you get a dad like that?)
<
< Jim Rogers
< New Hibernia Review
<
<
< No virus found in this incoming message.
< Checked by AVG Free Edition.
< Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.0/1180 - Release Date: 12/10/2007
< 2:51 PM
<
<
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< Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.17.0/1180 - Release Date: 12/10/2007
< 2:51 PM
<
<



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 TOP
8257  
14 December 2007 10:57  
  
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 10:57:23 -0000 Reply-To: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [IR-DLOG0712.txt]
  
Re: Black
  
Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Brian Lambkin
Subject: Re: Black
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C83E40.1B4C0A40"

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C83E40.1B4C0A40
Content-Type: text/plain;
charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks Elizabeth,
=20
The first sentence of chapter LXXXV in Sullivan's The Story of Ireland =
is: 'Amidst the horrors of "Black Forty-seven", the reason of strong men =
gave way in Ireland' (p 556), which gets us back to 1867.
=20
best wishes
Brian Lambkin

________________________________

From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List on behalf of Elizabeth Malcolm
Sent: Thu 12/13/2007 11:02 PM
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: [IR-D] Black



I have a copy of A.M. Sullivan's book,'New Ireland' - Sullivan became =
editor of the
'Nation' (1855-74), after Gavan Duffy left for Australia, and was a =
nationalist MP
(1874-82). My copy of the book is the 4th ed. published in 1878, but the =
book first
appeared in the previous year, 1877. Chapter VI is titled 'The Black =
Forty-Seven'.

This book and Sullivan's other works were widely read in Ireland and =
among the Irish
overseas, so I could see his use of the term helping to popularise it. =
Might be
worth checking when the 'Nation' started to refer to 'Black '47'.

Elizabeth
__________________________________________________
Professor Elizabeth Malcolm

Gerry Higgins Chair of Irish Studies
School of Historical Studies ~ University of Melbourne ~ Victoria, 3010, =
AUSTRALIA
Phone: +61-3-83443924 ~ Email: e.malcolm[at]unimelb.edu.au

President
Irish Studies Association of Australia and New Zealand (ISAANZ)
Website: http://isaanz.org
__________________________________________________



------_=_NextPart_001_01C83E40.1B4C0A40
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filename=disclaimer.txt

************************************************************************

National Museums Northern Ireland comprises the Ulster Museum, Ulster Folk and Transport Museum, Ulster American Folk Park, Armagh County Museum and W5.

The Ulster Museum is currently closed for major redevelopment. Details of the museum's programme of outreach activities during closure can be found at www.ulstermuseum.org.uk.

All our other sites are open as normal.


Any views expressed by the sender of this message are not necessarily those of the National Museums Northern Ireland. This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email in error please notify the sender immediately by using the reply facility in your email software.

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 TOP
8258  
14 December 2007 12:37  
  
Date: Fri, 14 Dec 2007 12:37:25 -0000 Reply-To: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [IR-DLOG0712.txt]
  
Re: Summer Writing programs
  
Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Re: Summer Writing programs
In-Reply-To:
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

In the early years of the Irish Diaspora list we used to receive and
distribute emails about Summer Schools and the like. But that was when the
web was less organised and less available, and we soon decided that there
was no point in duplicating effort...

We do keep an eye on lists of conference papers and the like, just to track
the early days of a research project.

Nowadays practically all the Summer Schools and Conferences have some sort
of web presence, and there are web sites that collect and display this
information...

Some obvious links pasted in below...

P.O'S.

http://www.goireland.com/

http://www.goireland.com/Scripts/low/xq/asp/cat.16/areatype.I/areaid.1/Subje
ctID.64/qx/listing.htm

lists 33 Summer Schools

http://www.dochara.com/play/events/summer-schools.php

has another list, as has...

Summer Study Abroad Opportunities in Ireland
http://www.studyabroad.com/programs/summer/ireland

The IASIL site is worthy staying in touch with...
http://www.iasil.org/newsletter/confs.html

And a web search for something like
summer schools in Ireland
will turn up many hits of specific meeting and meeting places.



-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf
Of Rogers, James
Sent: 13 December 2007 20:34
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: [IR-D] Summer Writing programs

If I can divert us from our discussion of black & white for a moment:

Does anyone know if there is a listing of the various summer writing
programs in Ireland. anywhere on the web?

Or for the various summer schools in Ireland, for that matter .

This follows on a query from a VP at my university who wants to give his son
such a trip for a Christmas present. (And how do you get a dad like that?)

Jim Rogers
New Hibernia Review
 TOP
8259  
15 December 2007 17:50  
  
Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2007 17:50:36 -0400 Reply-To: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [IR-DLOG0712.txt]
  
'98 Clubs
  
Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Seamus Jol
Subject: '98 Clubs
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello everyone, I am trying to find out if the local '98 Clubs which existe=
d in Ireland (and, for instance, in Qu=E9bec City and in Montr=E9al) at the=
time of the 1898 Centennial commemorations were organized only in 1897-189=
8 or if this appellation and the organization of such =AB'98 Clubs=BB exist=
ed before 1898? Merci beaucoup/Thanks a million, Simon JolivetPhD student,=
HistoryConcordia University, Montr=E9al
_________________________________________________________________
D=E9couvre la carte magique du P=E8re No=EBl! Clique ici pour la voir!
http://www.demandeauperenoel.ca/magicalmapsfr/?icid=3DNOELFRCA105=
 TOP
8260  
16 December 2007 15:11  
  
Date: Sun, 16 Dec 2007 15:11:21 +0000 Reply-To: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [IR-DLOG0712.txt]
  
Postgrad conference on migration studies
  
Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Liam Greenslade
Subject: Postgrad conference on migration studies
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Apologies for cross-posting

Liam

Dear Colleagues,=20

Please see below a call for papers for a new Interdisciplinary Postgradua=
te
Conference on migration studies in Ireland.=20

Regards

Aoileann Ni Mhurchu
Managing Editor - Translocations
Office of the Theme Leaders
Dublin City University (LG 16)=20
Glasnevin, Dublin 9=20


CALL FOR PAPERS
=20
'Migration Studies in Ireland =AD An Interdisciplinary Postgraduate
Conference'
=20
Date: March 27-28 2008
Venue: Trinity College Dublin
=20
During the past five years a growing number of postgraduate students have
been developing inquiry into the area of migration studies across the
Humanities and Social Sciences. This welcome development is occurring
cross-institutionally, north and south, and traverses the fields of
sociology, anthropology, cultural studies, linguistics, geography,
education, social policy, lens-based practice, film and media studies, ra=
ce,
ethnicity and gender studies, among others.
=20
This timely and inaugural conference on =8CMigration Studies in Ireland=B9=
will
occur annually and rotate location between the following convening partne=
r
institutions: University College Dublin (UCD); National University of
Ireland, Maynooth (NUIM); University College, Cork (UCC); Dublin Institut=
e
of Technology (DIT); University of Limerick (UL); Dublin City University
(DCU); Trinity College Dublin (TCD).
=20
This conference will provide a dynamic forum for debate, exchange,
exhibition and screenings of doctoral work that thematically engages
questions of migration, race, rights, public policy, inter/transculturali=
sm
and the use of audio and visual media in social research.
=20
This is an excellent opportunity for doctoral students working in the
interdisciplinary field of migration studies to present their projects at
different stages of development to fellow students and supervisors in a
supportive and productive environment.
=20
We welcome abstracts of 200 words on the aforementioned themes from
postgraduate students wishing to attend the conference, to be received no
later than 20 January 2008. Abstracts should include a title, topic of
research, methodology/ies employed, and stage in doctoral research.
=20
Abstracts should be forwarded to: migrationstudiesireland[at]gmail.com along
with any queries about the event.
=20
Presentation format will consist of 20-minute individual paper panel
presentations followed by discussion.
=20

Aoileann Ni Mhurchu
Managing Editor - Translocations
Theme Leaders Office
Glasnevin=20
Dublin 9
Email: aoileann.nimhurchu[at]dcu.ie
www.translocations.ie=20
 TOP

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