Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Carmel McCaffrey
Subject: Re: Article,
Foreign Fields and Foreigners on the Field: Irish Sport,
Inclusion and Assimilation
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Piaras,

Dublin built by aliens? Yes, but these Viking, Norman and Huguenot=20
"aliens" became "we Irish". I am Huguenot descent on my paternal=20
grandmother's side. I think the Ireland of former days was always far=20
less homogeneous than many might suppose: a fact borne out by our=20
different experiences growing up in Ireland in the twentieth century.=20
The question of "Irishness" may be a post-colonial one but in the case=20
of Ireland it also affects the Diaspora. What is/was Irish "reality" for=20
the Diaspora? Living in the US now I often wonder if the Diaspora=20
experience is more Gaelic League visionary than Irish reality.=20

The first experience I had with the Irish Diaspora was my first trip to=20
the US - New York - in the 1970s. I was staying with an Irish American=20
family who thought it a necessity to being me to a Ceil=ED. First time I=
=20
had ever been to such an event. During the course of the evening an=20
American said to me "Isn't this just like the old country?" Well to me=20
it was nothing like the old country. Irish music, Irish dancing etc. -=20
at that time I wouldn't even have known where in Dublin to go for such=20
an event. Neither my parents nor grandparents would be caught near=20
anything resembling a ceil=ED. It was NOT the Ireland that I knew. =20
I concluded that the Irish in the US had become "more Irish than the=20
Irish themselves".

I wonder if there are any studies which address the issue of how much=20
the influence of the Diaspora had on late twentieth century native=20
Irish culture? It is an interesting topic. Pubs with live Irish music=20
etc. are all the result, as far as I know, of filling the expectations=20
of tourists. And St Patrick's Day -- what a circus that has become. I=20
remember when it was a quiet day for gardening and going to Mass. The=20
pubs did not even open. The Dublin parade was a very muted affair with=20
floats from local businesses and free Lucozade given out at the pillar.=20
That was the best part of the day. But with cheap air travel all that=20
changed and the native Irish quickly became more manifestly "Irish" on=20
that day. Whether this was actual change or cosmetic is another question=20
of course.

Carmel




MacEinri, Piaras wrote:
> Dear Carmel
>
> Thank you for yours. And what an amazing medium the Internet is and wha=
t
> a wonderful network Paddy O'Sullivan runs; we could not have had these
> kinds of conversations in the 1980s or earlier.
>
> I don't think we should get too upset about hijabs. In the Ireland I
> grew up in, more or less the same as yours, the place was full of women
> in veils but was run by men in frocks. Thankfully, no more. I don't mea=
n
> that as an anticlerical remark. I think that the Catholic Church and
> other faith communities are probably going to experience a kind of
> renaissance in a new more hybrid Ireland, even if I remain a firm
> secularist who also recognises that my position is a minority one (the
> Archdiosese of Dublin yesterday ordained three new priests for the
> diocese, an event in itself; one is Vietnamese). As for the hair
> ribbons, surely this was another example of control freakery, _the_
> most typical feature of Irish public culture until recently? Hijabs com=
e
> in many shapes, sizes and designs. When I lived in Lebanon I used to
> travel widely with a Swedish journalist, Agneta Ramberg (my daughter's
> Muireann's godmother). Her 'hijab', which she needed for interviewing
> Shia imams in South Lebanon, was a small, elegant and beautiful wisp of
> silk, but it met the essential requirements; she could produce it in
> seconds from her handbag and meet the social code of the time and place=
.
>
> I don't know what school you went to, although I suspect that many were
> like this. I think that nowadays the anglocentrism is far in the past,
> although I also think that Ireland itself has moved into the mainstream
> of Anglo-American culture and has embraced it, forgetting sometimes the
> European and African links which marked us earlier as a people. Insofar
> as this has led to a certain inward-looking and self-congratulatory
> smugness, I think this is very regrettable, especially as the Irish
> diaspora itself is increasingly invisible to us here in Ireland. For
> instance, to my knowledge, there is only one serious history of Irish
> missionaries (The Irish Missionary Movement, by Ed Hogan) although ther=
e
> is a lot of hagiographical stuff as well as some good smaller scale
> studies. There are big research gaps here, for anyone interested in
> diaspora issues, yet most of these men and women will be dead in the
> next twenty years.
>
> Your family back ground was certainly more liberal than mine. I freely
> admit that I would have scoffed at cricket as a child. When Nelson's
> Pillar was blown up in 1966, my mother announced this fact as a great
> victory and most of us thought it was. Dublin itself was a foreign city=
,
> built by aliens, to us displaced rural western migrants. I think it's
> different now and I'm glad.
>
> Best
>
> Piaras=20
>
> .
>
> =20

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Carmel McCaffrey
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De Valera has been quite successfully - in my opinion - reevaluated
recently by the RTE radio series "Judging Dev: a reassessment of the
life and legacy of Eamon De Valera" written by Diarmaid Ferriter. The
book to the series has the same title and I picked it up in Dublin
during a visit there last month. Ferriter re-evaluates Dev's legacy in
the light of modern day Ireland and with the use of the release of more
of Dev's personal papers. The book is filled with photo copies of many
letters and other correspondence between Dev and other twentieth century
figures.

Carmel

Muiris Mag Ualghairg wrote:
> I should have added. I say the centre of Cardiff as that is where I am
> but equally it sounds nicer than living in the centre of Dublin or
> Limerick or many of the cities of Ireland.
>
> M
>
> 2008/7/9 Muiris Mag Ualghairg :
>
>> To many modern people that would seem like a paradise, much of our
>> understanding of de Valera has been driven by the desire to turn
>> Ireland into a capitalist and consumerist country - now that we have
>> it and actually see what it means, and not just for the Irish but for
>> the rest of the world, it might be time to re-evaluate de Valera and
>> his ilk, to understand that the society they wanted might not have
>> been all bad (yes there were things that I wouldn't have agreed with -
>> for example the power of the church) but the basic premise of his
>> society actually sounds more appealing to me than does the centre of
>> Cardiff at present!
>>
>> M
>>
>>
>>
>
> .
>
>

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
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Does anyone know of any studies on Irish squalor of the eighteenth and
nineteenth centuries both in Ireland and abroad? I'm still researching
the name 'Irishtown' and interested in the relationship between the name
and poor housing conditions or poor housekeeping practices.

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From: D C Rose
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Subject: Dev and the Maiden Over ?
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Paddy has done a valuable service in this. It seems to me to beg an =
obvious question: who were the 'we' in 'The Ireland that we dreamed of =
'? The content surely echoes William Morris in 'News from Nowhere' and =
'The Dream of John Ball' and Oscar Wilde in 'The Soul of Man under =
Socialism'. =20

David Rose
www.oscholars.com

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Article,
Place branding and the representation of people at work:
Exploring issues of tourism imagery and migrant labour in the
Republic of Ireland
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Yes, there is a journal called Place Branding and Public Diplomacy...

And when you read it, it makes sense...

Place Branding and Public Diplomacy is a new journal, and the first to
concentrate on the practice of applying brand strategy and other marketing
techniques and disciplines to the economic, social, political and cultural
development of cities, regions and countries. Its Managing Editor, Simon
Anholt, is an author and consultant who advises a number of governments on
public diplomacy, brand strategy and development.

http://www.palgrave-journals.com/pb/index.html

When I meet friends who are visiting - say - London, as tourists or on
business, I am struck by the fact that it is possible to visit London, and
never meet a Londoner, or an English person.

Is the same thing increasingly true when visiting Ireland? A tourism
workforce that is not Irish?

P.O'S.


Place Branding and Public Diplomacy (2008) 4, 45-60.
doi:10.1057/palgrave.pb.6000083

Place branding and the representation of people at work: Exploring issues of
tourism imagery and migrant labour in the Republic of Ireland

Tom Baum1, Niamh Hearns2 and Frances Devine3

Correspondence: Tom Baum, University of Strathclyde 94, Cathedral Street
Scotland Glasgow G4 0LG UK. Tel: +44 141 548 3954; Fax: +44 141 552 2870;
e-mail: t.g.baum[at]strath.ac.uk

1is Professor of Tourism and Hospitality Management at the University of
Strathclyde. He has primary and masters degrees from the University of Wales
and a PhD in tourism from Strathclyde. He is widely published in the field
of tourism and has taught, researched and consulted in a range of countries
in Africa, Asia, Europe and the Caribbean.

2is a lecturer at Galway-Mayo Institute of Technology, Castlebar Campus.
Prior to this, she was a lecturer in the University of Ulster and has worked
extensively in the tourism industry. She is researching for her PhD in the
area of strategic management.

3is a lecturer at the University of Ulster, Portrush where she teaches human
resource management. Her PhD research is on the management of cultural
diversity in the hospitality sector.

Received 7 June 2007; Revised 7 June 2007.

Abstract

This paper addresses destination brand image in tourism marketing and
assesses the contribution of tourism's workforce to such image and branding,
considering the role that employees play in visitors' interpretation of
their experience of destination and place. The focus of this paper,
therefore, is on the role of people in the image of place and the potential
for contradiction in imagery as the people who inhabit and work within a
place change over time. At the same time, both those who promote a
destination and those consuming the place as visitors may well have
expectations that are fixed in imagery that does not accord with that held
within the wider community. The location of this paper is Ireland where the
traditional promotion of the tourism brand has given a core role to images
of people and the friendliness of the hospitality of Irish people,
represented by largely homogeneous images. Recent growth in the 'Celtic
tiger' economy has induced unprecedented and large-scale migration from
countries across the globe to Ireland, particularly into the tourism sector.
This paper raises questions with regard to the branding of Ireland as a
tourist destination in the light of major changes within the demography and
ethnicity of its tourism workforce.
Keywords:

Tourism, migrant labour, Ireland, brand marketing, interpretation,
authenticity

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Article,
Local studies collections online: an investigation in Irish
public libraries
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This is an interesting little study, in the light of diaspora wide interest
in local collections. That element of the study is very small, but will
give rise to questions in the minds of questing IR-D members.

P.O'S.

Local studies collections online: an investigation in Irish public libraries

The Authors
Lara Barry, Dublin City Libraries, Ireland
Lucy A. Tedd, Department of Information Studies, Aberystwyth University,
Aberystwyth, UK

Abstract

Purpose - This paper aims to investigate how public libraries in Ireland are
using their websites to present local studies collections online.

Design/methodology/approach - All the websites of public libraries in
Ireland were evaluated against a checklist of 50 criteria by one of the
authors. An analytic description was provided of the four highest-ranking
websites and semi-structured interviews were held with staff in these
library authorities.

Findings - Several interesting trends in Irish local studies and their
online presentation were identified. Overall the websites were
well-presented and had a strong sense of branding. Users of these websites
typically come from the Irish diaspora in Europe, the US and Australia.
Library 2.0 "tools" had been adopted by three of the four authorities
investigated, adding value to their websites. Recommendations for future
developments are included.

Originality/value - This research should add to the relatively sparse
literature available on local authority local studies websites.

Article Type: Research paper
Keyword(s): Collections management; Ireland; Worldwide web; Public
libraries.
Journal: Program: electronic library and information systems
Volume: 42
Number: 2
Year: 2008
pp: 163-186
Copyright C Emerald Group Publishing Limited
ISSN: 0033-0337

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Muiris Mag Ualghairg
Subject: Re: De Valera, The Ireland That We Dreamed of
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To many modern people that would seem like a paradise, much of our
understanding of de Valera has been driven by the desire to turn
Ireland into a capitalist and consumerist country - now that we have
it and actually see what it means, and not just for the Irish but for
the rest of the world, it might be time to re-evaluate de Valera and
his ilk, to understand that the society they wanted might not have
been all bad (yes there were things that I wouldn't have agreed with -
for example the power of the church) but the basic premise of his
society actually sounds more appealing to me than does the centre of
Cardiff at present!

M

2008/7/9 Patrick O'Sullivan :
> Everything below will be familiar to the de Valera specialists.
>
> But I thought that it should be possible to tidy up knowledge about the 1=
943
> de Valera radio talk/speech.
>
> So, this morning, between my first and second cup of tea, I looked at wha=
t
> was to hand on my own shelves, also looking through Google and Amazon, an=
d
> through various secret doors...
>
> 1.
> The sound file is on
> Liam Wylie's web page
> RT=C9 Libraries and Archives
> http://www.rte.ie/libraries
>
> Follow the links from the de Valera material.
>
> And you get this...
>
> "The Ireland That We Dreamed of"
>
> 1943 was the 50th anniversary of the foundation of the Gaelic League, an
> organisation that aimed to preserve and restore the Irish language and Ir=
ish
> culture. Part of de Valera's message to the nation on St Patrick's Day 19=
43
> portrays a vision of an ideal Ireland. This is how he articulates it on
> radio:
>
> "... The Ireland that we dreamed of would be the home of a people who val=
ued
> material wealth only as a basis for right living, of a people who, satisf=
ied
> with frugal comfort, devoted their leisure to the things of the spirit =
=96 a
> land whose countryside would be bright with cosy homesteads, whose fields
> and villages would be joyous with the sounds of industry, with the rompin=
g
> of sturdy children, the contest of athletic youths and the laughter of ha=
ppy
> maidens, whose firesides would be forums for the wisdom of serene old age=
.
> The home, in short, of a people living the life that God desires that men
> should live. . . ."
>
> Programme Title:
> Address by Mr de Valera
> 1st Broadcast: 17 March 1943
> Speaker: Eamon de Valera
> Clip Duration: 02'49"
>
> In the recording de Valera clearly says 'the laughter of happy maidens'..=
.
>
> *** I will contact Liam Wylie and see if we can establish the provenance=
of
> this recording. Was it the actual thing that was broadcast, or something
> created at a later date?
>
>
> 2.
> Straightforward citation in written works turned out to be a bit problema=
tic
> - the usual citing of a secondary source, which cites a secondary source,
> which cites...
>
> Which is very naughty.
>
> However a number of good children have given a proper source.
>
> It is
> Moynihan, Maurice, ed.
> 1980 Speeches and Statements by Eamon de Valera, 1917-1972. Dublin: Gi=
ll
> and Macmillan.
> p 466
>
> As far as I can see authors who cite Moynihan always give 'the laughter o=
f
> comely maidens'...
>
> I have found one early citation which gives the source of the text as Iri=
sh
> Press, 1943. I have not been able to pursue this further, or find a prec=
ise
> date. Did de Valera arrange for his texts to be published in full in the
> Irish Press?
>
> *** Could someone who has access to Moynihan have a look at p 466 and jus=
t
> check. Also see what the first source for the text is.
>
> 3.
> Considering Jim Roger's query...
>
> The speech is much cited. But it tends to be cited to make a BaBaBoom
> point, rather than analysed.
>
> The only time I have ever heard it defended was during a visit to NY, whe=
n
> Joe Lee launched an ecological, sustainable resources, environmental read=
ing
> of the speech. Now, not all Joe Lee's bon mots or bien percus make it to
> the considered page - I don't know if this one has.
>
> At some point the text has become contaminated with 'dancing at the
> crossroads...'
>
> I have not been able pursued this line much... But it does seem to be pa=
rt
> of something of a tradition of disparagement or belittling. For example.=
..
>
> Thomas M. Wilson
> The anthropology of Ireland
> 2006
> Page 96
>
> has
> '...in which he is fondly remembered as referring to 'comely maidens danc=
ing
> at the crossroads' (erroneously, according to Wulff 2003a: 192).'
>
> This is a reference to one of Helena Wulff's 2003 publications - most
> probably
> "The Irish Body in Motion: Moral Politics, National Identity and Dance", =
in
> Noel Dyck and Eduardo P. Archetti (eds.), Sport, Dance and Embodied
> Identities. Oxford: Berg.
> To which I do not have access.
>
> An Intelligent Person's Guide to Modern Ireland
> By John Waters
> 1997
> P 41-44
> Has some discussion of the text. Waters is clear that de Valera said 'ha=
ppy
> maidens' on air, and sees continuing references to 'comely' as attempts t=
o
> disparage.
>
> See also discussion in
> Abortion and Divorce Law in Ireland
> By Jennifer E. Spreng
> P 215-216
>
> You can follow the text around the world - it is in the Field Day Antholo=
gy
> and on a Tamil Nationalist site. It is in Race and Nation: A Reader By
> Clive Christie, 1998.
>
> 4.
> Following up Marion Casey's note about mentions of the speech in The New
> York Times and the Washington Post, 18 March 1943, picked up from the
> Associated Press wire service...
>
> The Irish Independent, Thursday March 18, 1943, has a similar short item.
> It is headed LANGUAGE PLEA BY MR. DE VALERA, and sums up the speech as a
> plea for the restoration of the Irish language. It makes no mention of
> maidens, comely or otherwise.
>
> 5.
> If I can report on my own reactions when I read the text of the speech fo=
r
> the first time... I was actually shocked.
>
> Of course I came to the speech from the study of emigration. And I
> interpreted the wishes, and the policies, outlined in the speech as recip=
es
> for emigration. It seemed to me extraordinary cold blooded.
>
> The other thing that struck me was the diction. Parts of it read like a
> ballad - with the listing of wishes or memories that you find in song. A=
s I
> have said before, this is Irishness as a version of pastoral.
>
> It might partly be a generation thing - there is the same turning to poet=
ic
> diction in the Tryst with Destiny speech by Jawaharlal Nehru.
>
> Patrick O'Sullivan
>

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Muiris Mag Ualghairg
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I should have added. I say the centre of Cardiff as that is where I am
but equally it sounds nicer than living in the centre of Dublin or
Limerick or many of the cities of Ireland.

M

2008/7/9 Muiris Mag Ualghairg :
> To many modern people that would seem like a paradise, much of our
> understanding of de Valera has been driven by the desire to turn
> Ireland into a capitalist and consumerist country - now that we have
> it and actually see what it means, and not just for the Irish but for
> the rest of the world, it might be time to re-evaluate de Valera and
> his ilk, to understand that the society they wanted might not have
> been all bad (yes there were things that I wouldn't have agreed with -
> for example the power of the church) but the basic premise of his
> society actually sounds more appealing to me than does the centre of
> Cardiff at present!
>
> M
>
>

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Re: De Valera, The Ireland That We Dreamed of
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I have been reminded of one of my favourite anecdotes...

It is in Note 8 of Patrick Murray's excellent article, which recounts
amongst other things de Valera's habit of phoning historians, or critics,
with corrections and arguments...

Murray, Patrick. 2001. Obsessive historian: Eamon de Valera and the policing
of his reputation. Proceedings of the Royal Irish Academy, Section C 101
(2):37-65.

'On one occasion, after Peadar O'Donnell had rebuked him in public for
presiding over the emigration of over a million Irish people during his time
in government, de Valera telephoned him to complain about the unfairness of
this charge, suggesting that a million people would have emigrated
even if O'Donnell had been in office. O'Donnell could only reply that this
might be true, but that the emigrants would have been different people.

See Anois, 10 11 October 1993.'

P.O'S.

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Carmel McCaffrey
Subject: Re: Article,
Foreign Fields and Foreigners on the Field: Irish Sport,
Inclusion and Assimilation
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Piaras,
In spite of the greatness of this medium it does have its limitations -
and misunderstands abound. I in no way meant to be disparaging of how
Irish America expresses Irishness. On the contrary, I like it a lot. I
have come to really love the way people show up for lectures on anything
pertaining to Ireland with green shirts, hats and Celtic crosses etc. It
is such a strikingly visible manifestation of how they feel. Last St
Patrick's Day I went to a local pub here - in rural Maryland - just to
sit and watch the show. Amazing. The lighted green beads - flashing on
and off - were the best! Loved it!

I was just pondering on how this had impacted back on Ireland - and
especially on "my" Dublin to create something that we did not have until
recently.

I also did understand what you meant by "aliens" - I was just being
facetious.

Carmel

MacEinri, Piaras wrote:
> Hi Carmel
>
> I may have perpetrated a small misunderstanding.
>
>
>

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: "MacEinri, Piaras"
Subject: Re: Article,
Foreign Fields and Foreigners on the Field: Irish Sport,
Inclusion and Assimilation
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Hi Carmel
=20
I may have perpetrated a small misunderstanding.=20

Obviously I don't hold the 'aliens' view at this point of my life! I was =
thinking of the unthinking, simplistic and essentialising prejudices =
which were so common at the time (and which I am sure I shared). And =
while Ireland was never monolithic in reality, I would still argue that =
the official culture of the post-independence Free State espoused a de =
facto monolithic culture. That does not mean that everyone shared the =
markers of what has more recently been defined as a WHISC (White, =
Heterosexual, Irish, Settled, Catholic) culture (relevant article is at =
http://migration.ucc.ie/marshalltracey.pdf but I am not totally sure of =
the copyright situation - it was freely available until very recently. =
Download and be discreet; I will shortly delete).=20
=20
There has been a good deal of scholarship in recent years on the =
commodification of Irishness. I seem to recall that Marion Casey wrote =
about this some time back (are you there Marion?) in the specific =
context of B=F3rd F=E1ilte's tourism messages. I came across a cultural =
studies collection on broader aspects of this question in a Dublin =
bookshop today, viz Diane Negra (ed.) 'The Irish in Us'. There are also =
studies of specific topics such as Cronin and Adair's excellent The =
Wearing of the Green: a History of Saint Patrick's Day.=20

That said (and thinking in particular of the Negra book which I have =
just come across), I am becoming a little weary of 'cultural studies' =
perspectives. Sometimes we need a little more raw meat i.e. what do =
'real' people actually think? It's all very interesting to hear about =
what the Quiet Man might tell us about the 'representation' of =
'Irishness' in American culture, but we need other perspectives as well. =

=20
I don't find the difference between diasporic and home culture =
surprising. It seems to me that there is an inevitable 'time-warp' =
effect whereby forms of cultural expression are more likely to be =
preserved and celebrated in one case, while changing in another. I =
recall a controversy ten years ago when Fintan O'Toole, in New York at =
the time, wrote a somewhat mocking piece about the St Patrick's Day =
parade there and Marion Casey (rightly, I think) took him to task from =
presuming to tell the Irish in New York how they should express their =
Irishness. The key issue, it seems to me, is summed up on one word: =
respect. Irishness in Ireland is not more 'authentic' than Irishness in =
other countries and those of us who inhabit that (rapidly changing) =
space and place have no primordial, essentialist claim, even if it =
remains a specific and special one.

Back in Ireland St Patrick's Day has become, in Dublin anyway, a purely =
commodified event, marketed crassly for commercial profit. If I still =
had small children, I wouldn't dream of bringing them there - but that =
puts me in the minority of people who are not happy with the =
commoditised, commercialised version of ourselves that the marketing =
people want to throw back at us. I used to laugh at Darby O'Gill and the =
Little People but the current marketing of 'Irishness' inside and =
outside the country is simply a more sophisticated take. In fact, could =
anything be worse than selling back to the Irish in Ireland a mediated, =
commoditised version of themselves? In other words, if visiting tourist =
go to the Jury's Cabaret, fair enough. But what when we start going?=20

In fairness, there are also still small local parades all over the place =
without the whiff of money and commercialism.

This is a state, nation and diaspora in a state of rapid and =
unpredictable transition. We could still embrace the possibility of =
'cherishing all the children of the national equally'.=20
=20
Piaras

-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On =
Behalf Of Carmel McCaffrey
Sent: 09 July 2008 14:34
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: Re: [IR-D] Article, Foreign Fields and Foreigners on the Field: =
Irish Sport, Inclusion and Assimilation

Piaras,

Dublin built by aliens? Yes, but these Viking, Norman and Huguenot=20
"aliens" became "we Irish". I am Huguenot descent on my paternal=20
grandmother's side. I think the Ireland of former days was always far=20
less homogeneous than many might suppose: a fact borne out by our=20
different experiences growing up in Ireland in the twentieth century.=20
The question of "Irishness" may be a post-colonial one but in the case=20
of Ireland it also affects the Diaspora. What is/was Irish "reality" for =

the Diaspora? Living in the US now I often wonder if the Diaspora=20
experience is more Gaelic League visionary than Irish reality.=20

The first experience I had with the Irish Diaspora was my first trip to=20
the US - New York - in the 1970s. I was staying with an Irish American=20
family who thought it a necessity to being me to a Ceil=ED. First time =
I=20
had ever been to such an event. During the course of the evening an=20
American said to me "Isn't this just like the old country?" Well to me=20
it was nothing like the old country. Irish music, Irish dancing etc. -=20
at that time I wouldn't even have known where in Dublin to go for such=20
an event. Neither my parents nor grandparents would be caught near=20
anything resembling a ceil=ED. It was NOT the Ireland that I knew. =20
I concluded that the Irish in the US had become "more Irish than the=20
Irish themselves".

I wonder if there are any studies which address the issue of how much=20
the influence of the Diaspora had on late twentieth century native=20
Irish culture? It is an interesting topic. Pubs with live Irish music=20
etc. are all the result, as far as I know, of filling the expectations=20
of tourists. And St Patrick's Day -- what a circus that has become. I=20
remember when it was a quiet day for gardening and going to Mass. The=20
pubs did not even open. The Dublin parade was a very muted affair with=20
floats from local businesses and free Lucozade given out at the pillar.=20
That was the best part of the day. But with cheap air travel all that=20
changed and the native Irish quickly became more manifestly "Irish" on=20
that day. Whether this was actual change or cosmetic is another question =

of course.

Carmel




MacEinri, Piaras wrote:
> Dear Carmel
>
> Thank you for yours. And what an amazing medium the Internet is and =
what
> a wonderful network Paddy O'Sullivan runs; we could not have had these
> kinds of conversations in the 1980s or earlier.
>
> I don't think we should get too upset about hijabs. In the Ireland I
> grew up in, more or less the same as yours, the place was full of =
women
> in veils but was run by men in frocks. Thankfully, no more. I don't =
mean
> that as an anticlerical remark. I think that the Catholic Church and
> other faith communities are probably going to experience a kind of
> renaissance in a new more hybrid Ireland, even if I remain a firm
> secularist who also recognises that my position is a minority one (the
> Archdiosese of Dublin yesterday ordained three new priests for the
> diocese, an event in itself; one is Vietnamese). As for the hair
> ribbons, surely this was another example of control freakery, _the_
> most typical feature of Irish public culture until recently? Hijabs =
come
> in many shapes, sizes and designs. When I lived in Lebanon I used to
> travel widely with a Swedish journalist, Agneta Ramberg (my daughter's
> Muireann's godmother). Her 'hijab', which she needed for interviewing
> Shia imams in South Lebanon, was a small, elegant and beautiful wisp =
of
> silk, but it met the essential requirements; she could produce it in
> seconds from her handbag and meet the social code of the time and =
place.
>
> I don't know what school you went to, although I suspect that many =
were
> like this. I think that nowadays the anglocentrism is far in the past,
> although I also think that Ireland itself has moved into the =
mainstream
> of Anglo-American culture and has embraced it, forgetting sometimes =
the
> European and African links which marked us earlier as a people. =
Insofar
> as this has led to a certain inward-looking and self-congratulatory
> smugness, I think this is very regrettable, especially as the Irish
> diaspora itself is increasingly invisible to us here in Ireland. For
> instance, to my knowledge, there is only one serious history of Irish
> missionaries (The Irish Missionary Movement, by Ed Hogan) although =
there
> is a lot of hagiographical stuff as well as some good smaller scale
> studies. There are big research gaps here, for anyone interested in
> diaspora issues, yet most of these men and women will be dead in the
> next twenty years.
>
> Your family back ground was certainly more liberal than mine. I freely
> admit that I would have scoffed at cricket as a child. When Nelson's
> Pillar was blown up in 1966, my mother announced this fact as a great
> victory and most of us thought it was. Dublin itself was a foreign =
city,
> built by aliens, to us displaced rural western migrants. I think it's
> different now and I'm glad.
>
> Best
>
> Piaras=20
>
> .
>
> =20

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick Maume
Subject: Re: Dev and the Maiden Over ?
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From: Patrick Maume
I think de Valera had earlier in the speech made a reference to the
independence movement which implies "we" are "those who participated
in the struggle for independence" but I may be wrong about this.
Morris mediated through Chesterton and Belloc's Distributism, with
its idealisation of a Catholic peasantry as allegedly found in France
and Ireland.
Best wishes,
Patrick

On 7/9/08, D C Rose wrote:
> Paddy has done a valuable service in this. It seems to me to beg an obvious
> question: who were the 'we' in 'The Ireland that we dreamed of '? The
> content surely echoes William Morris in 'News from Nowhere' and 'The Dream
> of John Ball' and Oscar Wilde in 'The Soul of Man under Socialism'.
>
> David Rose
> www.oscholars.com
>

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Article,
Developing Integrated Editions of Minority Language Dictionaries:
The Irish Example
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For more on Digital Dinneen see

http://www.ucc.ie/celt/digineen.html

P.O'S.


Literary and Linguistic Computing Advance Access originally published =
online
on February 1, 2008

Literary and Linguistic Computing 2008 23(1):3-12; =
doi:10.1093/llc/fqm038

=A9 The Author 2008. Published by Oxford University Press on behalf of =
ALLC
and ACH.=20

Developing Integrated Editions of Minority Language Dictionaries: The =
Irish
Example
Julianne Nyhan

Corpus of Electronic Texts, University College Cork, Ireland

Correspondence: Julianne Nyhan Knockrea Mews, CELT corpus, 2 Carrigside,
University College Cork, Ireland. E-mail: julianne.nyhan[at]ucc.ie

Abstract

The Corpus of Electronic Texts (CELT) project at University College Cork =
is
an on-line corpus of multilingual texts that are encoded in TEI =
conformant
SGML/XML. As of September 2006, the corpus has 9.3 million words online.
Over the last five years, doctoral work carried out at the project has
focused on the development of lexicographical resources spanning the =
years
c. AD 700=961700, and on the development of tools to integrate the =
corpus with
these resources. This research has been further complimented by the =
Linking
Dictionaries and Text project, a North=96South Ireland collaboration =
between
the University of Ulster, Coleraine, and University College Cork. The
Linking Dictionaries and Text project will reach completion in October =
2006.
This article focuses on CELT's latest research project, the Digital =
Dinneen
project, that aims to create an integrated edition of Patrick S. =
Dinneen's
Focl=F3ir Gaedhilge agus B=E9arla (Irish-English Dictionary). In this =
article,
the newly developed research infrastructure=97that is the culmination of =
the
doctoral research carried out at CELT and the Linking Dictionaries and =
Text
collaboration=97will be described, and ways that the Digital Dinneen =
will be
integrated into this infrastructure established. Finally, avenues of =
future
research will be pointed to.

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Re: Dev and the Maiden Over ?
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I think that the person who has done most work on these kinds of influences
is Patrick Maume. His book on Corkery and the influence of Ruskin I found
revelatory.

Maume, Patrick. 1993. 'Life that is exile': Daniel Corkery and the search
for Irish Ireland. Belfast: Institute of Irish Studies, The Queen's
University of Belfast.

I don't know of a web page listing all Patrick's work. But see for example
UCC's Multitext page on Irish Ireland, where many of his works are clearly
influential.

http://multitext.ucc.ie/d/Irish_Ireland

P.O'S.



-----Original Message-----
From: The Irish Diaspora Studies List [mailto:IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK] On Behalf
Of D C Rose
Sent: 09 July 2008 09:50
To: IR-D[at]JISCMAIL.AC.UK
Subject: [IR-D] Dev and the Maiden Over ?

Paddy has done a valuable service in this. It seems to me to beg an obvious
question: who were the 'we' in 'The Ireland that we dreamed of '? The
content surely echoes William Morris in 'News from Nowhere' and 'The Dream
of John Ball' and Oscar Wilde in 'The Soul of Man under Socialism'.

David Rose
www.oscholars.com

Sender: The Irish Diaspora Studies List
From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Article,
Genetic investigation of the patrilineal kinship structure of
early medieval Ireland
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This Bradley & colleagues article seems to have attracted less publicity
than previous efforts. Less sexy - literally - perhaps...

P.O'S.

American Journal of Physical Anthropology
Volume 136 Issue 4, Pages 415 - 422

Published Online: 18 Mar 2008

Research Article
Genetic investigation of the patrilineal kinship structure of early =
medieval
Ireland
Brian McEvoy 1, Katharine Simms 2, Daniel G. Bradley 1 *
1School of Genetics and Microbiology, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland
2School of Histories and Humanities, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland
email: Daniel G. Bradley (dbradley[at]tcd.ie)

*Correspondence to Daniel G. Bradley, Smurfit Institute of Genetics, =
Trinity
College, Dublin 2, Ireland

Funded by:
Health Research Board of Ireland; Grant Number: RP/2004/155

Keywords
Y-chromosome =95 surnames =95 DNA

Abstract
A previous study of Irish Y-chromosomes uncovered a likely patrilineal
kinship basis to the most prominent early Irish tribal entity/kingdom, =
the
U=ED N=E9ill, who dominated the North of the Island during the early =
medieval
period (600-1,000 AD). However, it is unknown to what extent this was a
general feature of the multitude of Irish kingdoms that existed over the
same period. Irish surnames are patrilineally inherited in a similar =
manner
to the Y-chromosome and their origin can often be traced to pre-existing
tribal units. We genotyped 17 microsatellites in 247 Y-chromosomes from =
men
with surnames that are purported to be derived from two different tribes
(E=F3ganacht and D=E1l Cais) from the Southern province of Munster, as =
well as a
third cohort of random names from the same geographic area. Although =
there
is some sharing of Y-chromosomes between surnames of the same putative
origin, there was no clear distinction between either grouping and the
control, suggesting that the level of U=ED N=E9ill patrilineal kinship =
was not a
universal feature of Irish tribal units. In turn this argues that an
extensive extended clan or biological legacy of an eponymous founding
ancestor was not necessarily a crucial factor in their establishment. Am =
J
Phys Anthropol, 2008. =A9 2008 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
Received: 16 July 2007; Accepted: 18 January 2008

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From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: CFP Thomas Moore conference, Moore Institute,
National University of Ireland, Galway
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Forwarded on behalf of
Sean Ryder, Moore Institute, NUI Galway (sean.ryder[at]nuigalway.ie)

Thomas Moore: Texts, Contexts, Hypertext

28-29 November 2008

Moore Institute

National University of Ireland, Galway

CALL FOR PAPERS

Speakers include:

Luke Gibbons, Una Hunt, Ronan Kelly, Jane Moore, Emer Nolan, Harry White

The Moore Institute at the National University of Ireland, Galway will host
a two-day multi-disciplinary conference on the life, work and legacy of
Thomas Moore (1779-1852).

Moore was a major figure in nineteenth-century Irish, British, European and
American cultural life, but suffered an eclipse of reputation in the
twentieth century that has begun to be challenged. This conference aims to
examine and debate Moore's diverse cultural productions across a variety of
disciplines.

The conference organisers invite papers examining multiple facets of Moore's
identity as a poet, biographer, satirist, lyricist, melodist, polemicist and
historian. Possible topics include (but are not limited to):

Moore and Irish national identity

Moore and European romanticism

Moore and music

Moore and orientalism

Moore and politics

Textual and editorial issues for Moore's work

The conference will include the launch of the pilot version of the
IRCHSS-funded online Thomas Moore Hypermedia Archive, and will host an
exhibition 'My Gentle Harp: Moore's Irish Melodies 1808-2008', curated by
the Royal Irish Academy.

On Saturday 29 November, the conference will host a concert performance of
Moore's Irish Melodies under the direction of Una Hunt.

Abstracts (500 words maximum) for 20-minute papers should be emailed to Sean
Ryder, Moore Institute, NUI Galway (sean.ryder[at]nuigalway.ie) before 1 August
2008.

This event is funded by the Irish Research Council for Humanities and Social
Sciences with support from the Moore Institute for Research in Humanities
and Social Studies.

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From: D C Rose
Organization: THE OSCHOLARS
Subject: Dev and the Maiden
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Thanks you, Patrick and Patrick. Perhaps we are strolling down a =
by-way, but this does raise interesting questions about the intellectual =
underpinnings of Irish Ireland and De Valeran republicanism. Morris, =
Ruskin, Chesterton, Belloc: who would have thunk it? Who else? P=E9guy, =
perhaps? =20

David

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From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: David H. Greene, Scholar of Irish Literature, Dies at 94
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July 13, 2008

David H. Greene, Scholar of Irish Literature, Dies at 94

By DENNIS HEVESI

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/h/dennis_hevesi/
index.html?inline=nyt-per

David H. Greene, a leading scholar of Irish literature and one of the
authorized biographers of the playwright J. M. Synge, the author of "The
Playboy of the Western World," died on Wednesday near his home in Boynton
Beach, Fla. He was 94.

The cause was pneumonia, his daughter Candy Moss said.

For nearly 40 years, Professor Greene taught at New York University
, often in large classrooms packed
with students soaking up his passion for Irish culture. He traced his
patrilineal lineage to English settlers of Massachusetts in the early 1700s,
but his mother was a native of Ireland.

"He was less proud of his Mayflower-like heritage than of his
Irish-immigrant roots," Ms. Moss said of her father. "He had a robust
respect for Irish culture, and he spent years studying early Christian stone
sculpture in Ireland, especially the high crosses of ancient times." But
Irish literature came first.

Peter Quinn, a novelist and chronicler of Irish America, said on Friday:
"For Irish-Americans, his work was eye-opening. At a time when nobody in
America was teaching Irish literature, he's the one who opened that field of
study."

In 1959, with Edward M. Stephens, Professor Greene published "J. M. Synge:
1871-1909" (Macmillan), about the playwright, who was in the forefront of
what many scholars call the Irish literary renaissance. The book details how
Synge assimilated Ireland's Gaelic heritage into robust and poetic drama.

Professor Greene was also editor of "An Anthology of Irish Literature" (New
York University Press, 1971); "1,000 Years of Irish Prose" (Devin-Adair
Company, 1952); and co-editor, with Dan H. Laurence, of "The Matter With
Ireland" (Rupert Hart-Davis, 1962), a compilation of George Bernard Shaw
's writings.

In the late 1950s and early '60s, Professor Greene brought his expertise to
television as a lecturer on the WCBS-TV series "Sunrise Semester." And every
weekday afternoon, he was the off-screen expert for the original version of
the CBS game show "Password," immediately assessing contestants' rapid-fire
word associations.

David Herbert Greene was born in Boston on Nov. 4, 1913, one of four
children of Herbert and Annie Roche Greene. He earned a bachelor's degree in
1936, a master's degree a year later and a Ph.D. in 1939, all at Harvard
and all in literature. After serving
as a Navy intelligence officer in Britain in World War II, he was appointed
to the English faculty at N.Y.U. He retired in 1979, but continued to
lecture as a emeritus professor until 1985.

Besides his daughter Candy, of Manhattan, Professor Greene is survived by
his wife of 69 years, the former Catherine Healy; a son, David, of Brooklyn;
two other daughters, Judith Fields and Gail Greene, both of Manhattan; four
grandchildren; and one great-grandson. Another daughter, Helen Carol, died
in 1981.

In the mid-1930s, while a student at Harvard, Professor Greene was assigned
to escort the Irish playwright Sean O'Casey, who had been invited to speak
on campus. They struck up a friendship that lasted for decades, resulting in
a voluminous exchange of correspondence.

In 1966, two years after O'Casey's death, Professor Greene arranged for the
N.Y.U. library to buy 126 of the playwright's letters. Those letters (not
from his own collection) were all addressed to Jack Carney, an Irish union
organizer in the early 20th century.

That purchase led to something of a literary dust-up in 1977, when Professor
Greene refused to allow the publication or examination of the letters. The
request had come from David Krause, a Brown University
professor who was a biographer of
O'Casey and editor of "Letters of Sean O'Casey." Professor Krause, who had
once been a student of Professor Greene, said the letters to Carney would
help clarify O'Casey's political thinking.

"My father refused on the basis that O'Casey had made statements about
people who were still alive, statements that he thought O'Casey would not
want repeated," Ms. Moss said. The refusal was later partly overruled by
N.Y.U.'s dean of libraries.

Three years ago Professor Greene donated his own trove of O'Casey letters to
N.Y.U.

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From: Peter Hart
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Can I just say: hats off to Diarmaid Ferriter and the contributors - that's the
most interesting journal table of contents I've seen in a very long time.

Peter Hart

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From: Patrick O'Sullivan
Subject: Book Announced, Catherine Nash,
Of Irish Descent: Origin Stories, Genealogy, and the Politics
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IR-D members who have been following Catherine Nash's series of articles
will be interested in her book length exploration of her themes...

P.O'S.


Of Irish Descent
Origin Stories, Genealogy, and the Politics
of Belonging

Catherine Nash

Cloth $29.95s | 978-0-8156-3159-0 | 2008

Examining tensions between ideas of plurality and commonality, difference
and connection that run through the culture and science of ancestral
origins, Of Irish Descent is an original and timely exploration of new
configurations of nation and diaspora as communities of shared descent.

Description
What does it mean to be of Irish descent? What does Irish descent stand for
in Ireland? In Northern Ireland? In the United States? How are the
categories of "native" and "settler" and accounts of ethnic origin being
refigured through popular genealogy and population genetics?

Of Irish Descent addresses these questions by exploring the contemporary
significance of ideas of ancestral roots, origins, and connections. Moving
from the intimacy of family stories and reunions to disputed state policies
on noble titles and new scientific accounts and applications of genetic
research, Nash traces the place of ancestry in these interconnected
geographies of identity-familial, ethnic, national, and diasporic.
Underlying these different practices and narratives are potent and
profoundly political questions: "Who counts as Irish?," "Who belongs in
Ireland?" and "To whom does Ireland belong?"

Examining tensions between ideas of plurality and commonality, difference
and connection that run through the culture and science of ancestral
origins, Of Irish Descent is an original and timely exploration of new
configurations of nation and diaspora as communities of shared descent.

Author
Catherine Nash is professor of geography at Queen Mary, University of
London. She has written numerous articles in the fields of feminist cultural
geography, geographies of relatedness, and Irish studies.

6 x 9, 376 pages, 10 illustrations, notes, bibliography, index

http://www.syracuseuniversitypress.syr.edu/spring-2008/of-irish-descent-orig
in-stories-genealogy.html