From Patrick O'Sullivan

Very great claims are made for the 'knowledge revolution' - the wealth of information now
available...

A cautionary tale...

My younger son, Jake, 9, was recently assigned a school project, as part of the British
National Curriculum that we now have in place. It was a little research project. Ideal
topics for this age group might have been 'Landscape in Zelda', or 'Varieties of Pokemon'.
But, no, he and his group had to prepare a project on an 'Eminent Victorian'.

(To those not familiar with the loose British use of the word 'Victorian'... It tends to
mean vaguely nineteenth century, and not a citizen of that great Australian state...)

The children had already studied the 'Victorian' period. And, as we discussed possible
subjects of enquiry, Jake told me how upset he had been to learn of factory conditions,
children working in factories - some children even had their arms torn off by factory
machines.

And I said, That is exactly what happened to Michael Davitt.

And Jake asked, Who was Michael Davitt? And I told him.

So then we had the task of finding research material, suitable for a 9 year old, on
Michael Davitt (1846-1906, founder of the Land League). Contacts in publishing in Dublin
and London could find nothing. Jake and I searched the Web. We discovered some brief
encylopaedia entries. We discovered the brief Web site of the Michael Davitt Museum.
http://www.goireland.com/scripts/low/Premises.asp?PremisesID=27441
We discovered some brief newspaper items - often riddled with errors, and some of those
errors simple carelessness. One newspaper article has Michael leaving Ireland the year
before he was born.

In the end the only reliable source seemed to be T. W. Moody, Davitt and Irish Revolution,
1846-82, Clarendon Press, Oxford, 1981. Jake and I sat down and extracted the needed
information from Moody.

In fact there is something of a tradition amongst those who teach on the Irish in Britain,
in British schools, of using Moody's sections on Michael Davitt's childhood as an entry
point to the study of the Irish in Britain - Moody gives so much documented detail. And
we rely on Moody for evidence that the Fenians organised defense against Murphyite
attacks.

There were two great traumas of Michael Davitt's childhood - the eviction of the family in
1850, in Mayo, with the burning of the home by bailiffs (when Michael was 4 and a half),
and the loss of his arm in the mill 'accident' in 1857, in Lancashire, England (when he
was 11). It was the first incident that shaped Michael Davitt's life - he dedicated his
life to solving the Irish land and/or national question. Not to workplace, child labour
reform.

My son Jake was disturbed to learn that one of Michael Davitt's playmates, John Ginty,
aged 13, had had his skull crushed by mill machinery, some months before Michael's own
accident.

Paddy O'Sullivan


- --
Patrick O'Sullivan
Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Irish-Diaspora list
Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/

Personal Fax National 0870 088 1512
Fax International +44 870 088 1512

Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Department of Interdisciplinary Human Studies
University of Bradford
Bradford BD7 1DP
Yorkshire
England

From Patrick O'Sullivan

Thank you for making the point that the evidence we seek might be listed in the Missing
Friends project.

Information about the Missing Friends project can be found at various places on the Web...

http://www.ihaonline.com/books/book13.htm

http://tiara.ie/missing.html

http://www.standard.net.au/~jwilliams/friends.htm

http://dpls.dacc.wisc.edu/Irish/frinfo.htm#top

Ruth-Ann, do I not recall that a substantial chunk of the Missing Friends database was
actually displayed on the Web and could be interrogated? Maybe there is enough there to
make the points that Oliver Marshall needs?

By the way, a recurring feature of the Catholic Church Notices, read out from the pulpit,
and studied here in Bradford by Shelagh Ward, is the search for Missing Friends and family
members.

P.O'S.


- --
Patrick O'Sullivan
Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Irish-Diaspora list
Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/

Personal Fax National 0870 088 1512
Fax International +44 870 088 1512

Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Department of Interdisciplinary Human Studies
University of Bradford
Bradford BD7 1DP
Yorkshire
England




From: harrisrd
Subject: RE: Ir-D Gaps: Onward migration

Evidence in the "Missing Friends" database from the Boston Pilot newspaper's
personals columns clearly demonstrates a pattern of migration from Ireland to
a sojourn in England, Scotland or Wales, and then on to America.
Ruth-Ann Harris, Boston College

Forwarded on behalf of
Rachel Leatham
University of Minnesota
Email: rem[at]tc.umn.edu
and Immigration & Ethnic History Society


Race, Ethnicity, and Migration: The US in a Global Context
Location: Minnesota, United States
Call for Papers Deadline: 2000-03-01

A conference cosponsored by the REM Seminar and the Immigration
& Ethnic History Society to be held on November 16 - 18, 2000 at
the University of Minnesota, Twin Cities campus.

As we enter the new millennium, issues of race and ethnicity remain
vibrant and contentious in the United States and virtually everywhere
else in the world. Migration, past and present, is a key to
understanding the diversity and the dynamic pluralism of the United
States of America. In Europe, nation-states that once considered
themselves ethnically homogeneous now encompass increasingly
diverse and self-conscious population groups. In Asia, Africa, and
Latin America migration flows, voluntary and forced, have intensified
as the web of global economic, social, cultural, and political linkages
grow tighter. Ethnic and racial conflict, sometimes of a quite systematic
and deadly kind, seems almost commonplace all over the world.

In the United States, questions of race, ethnicity, and changing
demographics have long been at the heart of political and academic
discourse concerning the past, present, and future of American
society. In the last twenty years, these topics have also become fixed
features of intellectual and policy debates in many other countries. The
Race, Ethnicity, and Migration Conference intends to bring together
scholars who work on the United States and other parts of the world
for comparative and interdisciplinary discussions on race, ethnicity,
and migration in communities, past and present. The conference seeks
to address the urgent need for a more comprehensive and transnational
research agenda.

Proposals are welcome from advanced graduate students, junior and
senior scholars, and independent scholars. Proposals should include an
abstract of each paper. Proposals for full panels, roundtables,
interactive arts presentations, or performances are encouraged.
Preference will be given to submissions which include the work of
graduate students, which cross national boundaries by engaging in
comparative or transnational work or by presenting material on racial
and ethnic formation outside of the U.S., and which transcend single
disciplinary boundaries. We encourage submissions on a range of
relevant topics including, but not limited to:

Diaspora and diasporic identities; Genocide, ethnic cleansing, and
forced migration; Gender, race, and migration; Comparative
migrations; Political economies of migration; Politics of
difference/Politics of otherness; Refugee migration; Creating and
enforcing borders; Migration: Theatrical performances and literary
texts; Labor and migration; Identity: Nationalism and transnationalism;
Technology, migration, and cyberspace; Race and transnational
radicalisms; Language, religion, and the racialization of immigrants;
Migration and the (re)learning of race; State-determined identity and
citizenship: documenting the immigrant; Migration and film; Race,
migration, and law; Representations of immigrants and performances
of identity; Linking the global and the local; Migration and cultural
diffusion; (Re)imagined communities; Transnationalism and
globalization; Teaching migration; Migrant families: Intergenerational
issues; The rights of migrants (health care, education, and housing).

Deadline for submissions: March 1, 2000

Contact information:
Rachel Leatham
Seminar on Race, Ethnicity, and Migration
Immigration History Research Center
University of Minnesota
Immigration History Research Center
826 Berry Street
St. Paul, MN 55114
Phone: (612) 627-4208
Fax: (612) 627-4190

Email: rem[at]tc.umn.edu

Forwarded on behalf of Seán Hutton [mailto:sean[at]shfile.demon.co.uk]
Chair, British Association for Irish Studies


The British Association for Irish Studies (BAIS) Council has decided

(1) to ask organisers of oncoming Irish Studies related conferences in
UK to assist the Association by publicising BAIS by including copies of our
recruitment brochure in conference packs; so, if you are organising such
a conference, we would appreciate it if you would (i) agree to do this
and (ii) let us know how many copies of the brochure you require for
this purpose + deadline for supply of these for inclusion.

(2) to ask those associated with departments/centres recruiting Irish
Studies or related students to distribute the BAIS recruitment brochure
at beginning of new academic year to such students. We would be
grateful for your co-operation in this matter and will supply you with
brochures for this purpose. Again, details please, at the appropriate
time.

(Contact for (1) and (2) above:

Please encourage appropriate postgraduate students to apply for BAIS
Postgraduate Bursaries (see BAIS Newsletter 21 p 7 for details of
Bursaries and contact address).

Please support - and encourage colleagues to support - BAIS Research
Register (see BAIS Newsletter 21 p 15 for details). Contact:


Please use BAIS Newsletter to publicise your Irish Studies courses,
lectures, conferences, events. Contact for this information: Jerry
Nolan, 8 Antrobus Rd, Chiswick, London W4 5HY - Deadline for BAIS
Newsletter 22: 10 April 2000.

Seán Hutton, Chair BAIS

- --
Seán Hutton
69A Balfour Street
London SE17 1PL

Tel : 0171 703 5275
Fax : 0171 703 5275
e-mail: sean[at]shfile.demon.co.uk

From: Kerby Miller
Subject: Re: Ir-D Gaps: A school project

Dear Paddy,
I think there's a newish, short (100 pp.) biog. of Davitt in the
"Irish Lives" series (or something like that), perhaps published by
Dundalgan Press in Dundalk (same series as Alan O'Day's on Parnell, I
think). Otherwise, contact Carla King in Dublin or Maynooth; I think she's
done a lot of work on Davitt's post-Moody career (indeed, I think that
there's a very new books on that subject, too, but I may be hallucinating).
Carla's at Carla.King[at]spd.ie
Good luck,
Kerby.


>From Patrick O'Sullivan
>
>Very great claims are made for the 'knowledge revolution' - the wealth of
>information now
>available...
>
>A cautionary tale...
>
>My younger son, Jake, 9, was recently assigned a school project, as part
>of the British
>National Curriculum that we now have in place. It was a little research
>project. Ideal
>topics for this age group might have been 'Landscape in Zelda', or
>'Varieties of Pokemon'.
>But, no, he and his group had to prepare a project on an 'Eminent Victorian'.
>
>(To those not familiar with the loose British use of the word
>'Victorian'... It tends to
>mean vaguely nineteenth century, and not a citizen of that great
>Australian state...)
>
>The children had already studied the 'Victorian' period. And, as we
>discussed possible
>subjects of enquiry, Jake told me how upset he had been to learn of
>factory conditions,
>children working in factories - some children even had their arms torn off
>by factory
>machines.
>
>And I said, That is exactly what happened to Michael Davitt.
>
>And Jake asked, Who was Michael Davitt? And I told him.
>
>So then we had the task of finding research material, suitable for a 9
>year old, on
>Michael Davitt (1846-1906, founder of the Land League). Contacts in
>publishing in Dublin
>and London could find nothing. Jake and I searched the Web. We
>discovered some brief
>encylopaedia entries. We discovered the brief Web site of the Michael
>Davitt Museum.
>http://www.goireland.com/scripts/low/Premises.asp?PremisesID=27441
>We discovered some brief newspaper items - often riddled with errors, and
>some of those
>errors simple carelessness. One newspaper article has Michael leaving
>Ireland the year
>before he was born.
>
>In the end the only reliable source seemed to be T. W. Moody, Davitt and
>Irish Revolution,
>1846-82, Clarendon Press, Oxford, 1981. Jake and I sat down and extracted
>the needed
>information from Moody.
>
>In fact there is something of a tradition amongst those who teach on the
>Irish in Britain,
>in British schools, of using Moody's sections on Michael Davitt's
>childhood as an entry
>point to the study of the Irish in Britain - Moody gives so much
>documented detail. And
>we rely on Moody for evidence that the Fenians organised defense against
>Murphyite
>attacks.
>
>There were two great traumas of Michael Davitt's childhood - the eviction
>of the family in
>1850, in Mayo, with the burning of the home by bailiffs (when Michael was
>4 and a half),
>and the loss of his arm in the mill 'accident' in 1857, in Lancashire,
>England (when he
>was 11). It was the first incident that shaped Michael Davitt's life - he
>dedicated his
>life to solving the Irish land and/or national question. Not to
>workplace, child labour
>reform.
>
>My son Jake was disturbed to learn that one of Michael Davitt's playmates,
>John Ginty,
>aged 13, had had his skull crushed by mill machinery, some months before
>Michael's own
>accident.
>
>Paddy O'Sullivan
>

From: harrisrd
Subject: RE: Ir-D Onward migration: Missing Friends

Dear Paddy,
Good to 'talk' to you. Yes, the Wisconsin site that you cite has the data
for all persons who were reported to have departed or arrived in 1847 or 1848.

[Note: that would be
http://dpls.dacc.wisc.edu/Irish/frinfo.htm#top
P.O'S.]

Others have used this source so it so it must be accessible. Sorry, but I do
not recall the number of records right now {a possible 50 fields of data per
record]. I have the data through most of 1863 [1831-63] in database and would
really be happy to share it with interested persons. I don't think people
realize how useful this data could be. I enter data from time to time --
[often when I have insomnia] but haven't actively worked with it for a while.
The full text of all the ads [through 1916] are out in volume form now --
through volume eight. [My imprecision about numbers etc. is because I'm not
near my own computer or library today.] Ruth-Ann


>===== Original Message From irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk =====
>From Patrick O'Sullivan
>
>Thank you for making the point that the evidence we seek might be listed in
the Missing
>Friends project.
>
>Information about the Missing Friends project can be found at various places
on the Web...
>
>http://www.ihaonline.com/books/book13.htm
>
>http://tiara.ie/missing.html
>
>http://www.standard.net.au/~jwilliams/friends.htm
>
>http://dpls.dacc.wisc.edu/Irish/frinfo.htm#top
>
>Ruth-Ann, do I not recall that a substantial chunk of the Missing Friends
database was
>actually displayed on the Web and could be interrogated? Maybe there is
enough there to
>make the points that Oliver Marshall needs?
>
>By the way, a recurring feature of the Catholic Church Notices, read out from
the pulpit,
>and studied here in Bradford by Shelagh Ward, is the search for Missing
Friends and family
>members.
>
>P.O'S.
>

From: Kevin Kenny
Subject: Re: Ir-D Michael Davitt

Following Kerby Miller's bibliographical lead, Carla King
has indeed published a short study of Michael Davitt in the
series "Life and Times" published for the Historical
Association of Ireland by Dundalgan Press. This is a very
useful series, featuring biographical studies of no more
than 100 pages in length on about 25 figures so far,
including Davitt, Devoy, Parnell, Tone, Connolly, and many
others. The series is aimed at leaving certificate,
A-level, and undergraduate students, but is also clearly
very useful to general readers and to specialists in search
of a quick digest.

----------------------
Kevin Kenny
Department of History, Boston College
140 Commonwealth Avenue, Chestnut Hill, MA 02467
Phone(617)552-1196; Fax(617)552-3714; kennyka[at]bc.edu
www2.bc.edu/~kennyka/

From: harrisrd

Dear Paddy,

Would you be so kind as to pass on the message that Adele Dalsimer, the
director of the Boston College Irish Studies Program died unexpectedly
yesterday. Her many friends around the world will be distraight, as I feel
right now. She has fought cancer bravely for six years but no one expected
her death so soon.

Ruth-Ann Harris

From: "WILLIAM JENKINS"
Subject: Interfaith marriages / Landlords and tenants


A chairde / Friends:

I am presently writing up a doctoral dissertation on aspects of
geographical and social mobility among the Irish in Toronto,
Canada, and Buffalo, USA, between 1880 and 1910. I'd like to
share with you two topics that I am discussing in my dissertation
that, as far as I know, don't figure very much in the literature on the
Irish abroad...but I'd like to be proved wrong!

1. As well as looking at the rates of intermarriage between the
Irish and the other ethnic groups in the cities mentioned above, the
Canadian manuscript census returns, at least for 1881, which
include the variable of religion, allow one to explore the degree to
which Irish Catholics intermarried with Irish Protestants, and also
how different Irish Protestants intermarried with each other as well
as co-religionists from other groups such as the Scots and
English. Does anyone know of any previous work that tackles
similar issues? In particular, has there been any work done on this
for Belfast in the late nineteenth century?

2. While research has suggested that Irish families in North
America in the nineteenth century put particular emphasis on the
ownership of a home, what do we know about Irish landlords in
urban America (or Britain for that matter)? Or even the
characteristics of those who provided rental accommodation to
those Irish families who did not own a home? To what extent did
Irish landlords rent to Irish tenants - if one assumes that the Irish
landlord as a community/local figure emerged to any significant
degree.

I'll plough along with the work.
I'm grateful for any comments and suggestions regarding the above
topics.

All the best,
Willie Jenkins

William Jenkins
Department of Geography & Programme in Planning
University of Toronto
100 St. George Street
Toronto, Ontario M5S 3G3
CANADA

Tel: (416) 978-4812
Fax: (416) 978-6729

Some recently displayed H-Net book reviews that will be of interest...
P.O'S.

Reviewed for H-Albion by William Palmer
Steven G. Ellis. _Ireland in the Age of the Tudors, 1447-1603:
English Expansion and the End of Gaelic Rule_. New York: Addison
Wesley Longman, Inc., 1998. 358 pp. Glossary, tables, maps, guide
to further reading, bibliography, and index. $33.60 (paper),
0-582-01901-X; $72.95 (cloth), 0-582-01902-8.
http://www.h-net.msu.edu/reviews/showrev.cgi?path=6850949697544


Reviewed for H-Albion by Carla Pestana
Alison Games. _Migration and the Origins of the English Atlantic
World_. Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 1999. xii + 368 pp.
Maps, Illustrations, Bibliographic References, and Index. $45.00
(cloth), ISBN 0-674-57381-1.
http://www.h-net.msu.edu/reviews/showrev.cgi?path=6845949697542


Reviewed for H-AMINDIAN by Claudio Saunt
Michael Leroy Oberg. _Dominion and Civility: English Imperialism
and Native America, 1585-1685_. Ithaca, NY, and London: Cornell
University Press, 1999. x + 239 pp. Illustrations, notes, and
index. $42.50 (cloth), ISBN 0-8014-3564-1.
http://www.h-net.msu.edu/reviews/showrev.cgi?path=29186949945105



- --
Patrick O'Sullivan
Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Irish-Diaspora list
Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/

Personal Fax National 0870 088 1512
Fax International +44 870 088 1512

Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Department of Interdisciplinary Human Studies
University of Bradford
Bradford BD7 1DP
Yorkshire
England

Patrick O'Sullivan

There has been some discussion, behind the scenes here, in the Irish, American and
Australian media, and in other Irish-interest Internet discussion groups, of the question
of how many Irish-born men died in the war in Vietnam. At present the count is 20 - 16
with the American forces, and 4 with the Australian.

Of course many others served in Vietnam, as did many people of Irish background and
heritage. I don't want to talk about this in in too abstract a way - I am all too aware
that families are still in a process of discovery and grief. But it is interesting how
the themes - the very words - that emerge are perennial ones in the historiography of the
Irish Diaspora.

Declan Hughes has done most to discover the names, the fates, and the background of the
dead men, and to place his discoveries in Irish, Irish-American and Irish-Australian
contexts. He has kindly made two key articles available to the Irish-Diaspora list -
which I have posted on as separate emails. I think that all I am doing here is flagging
these discussions, and this issue, as of interest to Irish Diaspora Studies.

P.O'S.


- --
Patrick O'Sullivan
Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Irish-Diaspora list
Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/

Personal Fax National 0870 088 1512
Fax International +44 870 088 1512

Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Department of Interdisciplinary Human Studies
University of Bradford
Bradford BD7 1DP
Yorkshire
England

From Patrick O'Sullivan

Forwarded, and made available to the Irish-Diaspora list, through the courtesy of Declan
Hughes...

From: "Declan Hughes"
To: Patrick O'Sullivan

Brian McGinn suggested I send you on a copy of this information on
Irishborn killed in Vietnam. There is also an article which appeared in
the journal of the Vietnam Veterans of America, back in September. The
original article, and/or permission to reproduce it, can be had from the
journal's Editor, Ms Mokie Porter, in Washington DC. Tel: (202)
628-2700 ext.146.

Regards

Declan (Hughes)


The Irish & The Vietnam War

Up to March 1998, the "official" facts about Irish service in the =
Vietnam War were as follows:

a.. Number of Irish-born who served in Vietnam? No figures.
b.. Number of Irish-born killed in Vietnam? One.
For the past two years I have researched this subject, and with the help =
of many individuals, that barren 1998 landscape has been altered =
considerably. In April/May 1999, the half-scale replica of the Vietnam =
Memorial, in Washington DC ("The Wall"), toured the Four Provinces to =
recognise and honour the then-14 confirmed Irish-born killed in Vietnam =
serving with the United States military. By the end of that tour, the =
figure had increased to 16, plus another four Irishmen confirmed killed =
serving with Australian Forces. During The Wall's visit to Cork, =
Dublin, Belfast, Galway and Limerick, President of Ireland Mary =
McAleese, and Taoiseach Bertie Ahern, gave recognition and honour to all =
Irish who served, and in particular the Irish who lost their lives. =
Within the Republic the Irish Military rendered official honours at The =
Wall, where wreaths were laid, US and Irish Anthems played, and The Last =
Post sounded. For the first time, Irish families who lost sons in =
Vietnam - and who, for 30 years, believed themselves to have been the =
sole Irish family to have suffered such a loss - met with each other, =
and discovered that they had not been the lone families they had =
believed themselves to be.

On Veterans Day 1998 and '99, and Memorial Day 1999, wreaths were laid =
at The Wall in Washington by the Coalition of Irish Emigrant Centers. =
Memorial Day 2000 will again see such a ceremony. As the originator of =
the search for the Irish who served and died in Vietnam, and the =
instigator of The Wall's Tour of Ireland, I would like to make the =
following request of the diverse "Irish Community" in the US:

a.. This Memorial Day, if you don't already participate, please =
become involved in local ceremonies, and give recognition to those Irish =
who lost their lives. It is possible that the name of an Irish-born is =
on your local, county or state Vietnam Memorial. The presence of an =
Irish Flag could mean a lot to a family or community, and could help a =
family, or Veteran, come forward and identify him or herself.
b.. Slowly, a list of Irish-born MEN AND WOMEN who served and =
survived Vietnam is being compiled. Without local research and input =
from community organisations and individuals, such a compilation is =
impossible. Although the number of Irish-born KIAs is now a lot higher =
than the original official figure, we have no idea what percentage these =
men are in relation to the overall number of those who served until we =
find out how many served. In other words, have we found the total number =
of Irish who died, or are there still families out there somewhere who =
believe themselves to be the sole Irish family to have lost a son in =
Vietnam? I believe the latter to be the case.
c.. Information on Irish-born who served and survived, or who were =
killed, is vitally important in order to compile a correct history of =
this extraordinary period of conflict. In a controversial era, Irishmen =
and women served courageously and honourably. It is entirely fitting =
that their rightful place in United States military history be accorded =
them.
d.. Funding for this research and compilation is non-existent, and =
only continues on a shoe-string, thanks to the generosity of a small =
number of individuals. There are still names and clues that are =
impossible to check out due to lack of funds, and clues continue to come =
in. If your organisation has funding available for research or =
education, it could mean the difference between finding, or not finding, =
another family who lost a son in Vietnam. Last year I gave some talks to =
Irish groups in the US, and feedback and help has been very =
constructive. This is something your organisation might consider, also =
including this history into the Irish cultural festivals that take place =
throughout the year.
This year 2000, an all-out effort must be made. With 25th anniversary =
commemorations being held throughout America, Canada, Australia, New =
Zealand and, I hope, even here in Ireland, we will never be in a better =
position to avail of media support and interest to raise awareness. Here =
in Ireland we are awaiting a green light on a TV documentary about the =
Irish dead, and there is even talk of some Irish Veterans returning to =
Vietnam before year' end. We also have some Irish Veterans who served =
in Australian uniform considering a Battalion reunion trip to Sydney in =
May. To end, I am including [as a separate email] an article which appeared in the
August-Sept =
issue of 'The Veteran', the journal of the Vietnam Veterans of =
America. This gives more detail of the story so far, and also my contact =
details at the very end. Please don't hesitate to get in touch with =
any information or assistance that will help further this historical =
project.

Slan agus beannacht.

Declan Hughes,
Irish Vietnam Veterans Project, Top Floor, 119 Capel Street, Dublin 1, =
Republic of Ireland.=20

Telephone/Fax from U.S. (011-353-1) 872-2371. E-mail: dectwth[at]tinet.ie =
(or, dectwth[at]eircom.ie)

From Patrick O'Sullivan

Forwarded, and made available to the Irish-Diaspora list, through the courtesy of Declan
Hughes...

From: "Declan Hughes"
To: Patrick O'Sullivan


The Fighting Irish on the Traveling Wall

By Jim Belshaw

'The Veteran' - journal of Vietnam Veterans of America, August/September 1999)

John Driver's family owns a barber shop in Dublin, Ireland. Go into it =
and look up on the wall, and in all likelihood you'll recognise what =
is displayed for every customer to see - a military decoration, the =
Purple Heart, an American medal earned by a young Irishman. John Driver =
is not alone. There are others. Army Lt. John Cecil Driver began his =
[second] Vietnam tour of duty on January 17, 1969. On April 17, he was =
killed in action in Thua Thien. His name may be found on The Wall at =
Panel 27W-Line 99. Had he not recorded his home of record as he did - =
Dublin, Ireland - Declan Hughes would never have known about him. He =
would have assumed the official record was correct, that it reflected no =
Irish-born veterans killed in Vietnam, and he wouldn't have given the =
idea of Irish-born Vietnam veterans a second thought.

Nor would Hughes have found Maurice O'Callaghan, born in Dublin, =
killed in Vietnam, buried in New Jersey, re-buried in Dublin. "I spent a =
couple of months wandering around cemeteries in Dublin until I found =
him," Hughes said. "He was buried in New Jersey in 1967 and re-buried in =
Dublin in 1976 when the family moved back to Ireland." Nor any of the =
others: Patrick Nevin (Claremorris), Paul Maher (Dublin), Timothy Daly =
(Limerick), Bernard Freyne (Roscommon), Michael Smith (Cavan), Patrick =
Gallagher (Ballyhaunis), Edward Howell (Dublin), John Collopy =
(Limerick), Edward Scully (Cork), Edmond Landers (Tipperary), Anthony =
O=92Reilly (Galway), Philip Bancroft (Belfast), Sean Doran (Dublin), =
Peter Nee (Connemara) - all killed in Vietnam, all on The Wall, all =
born in Ireland.

Nor would Hughes have found the four who died while serving with the =
Australian military - David Doyle (Dublin), George Nagle (Tipperary), =
Thomas Birnie (Belfast), and Robert Fleming (Northern Ireland). Declan =
Hughes believes there are more. "I firmly believe this is not the =
total," he said. "I'm at the point where I can't walk away from it =
now. I would hate to think there are another sixteen or six or =
twenty-six and nobody ever knows about them. It's something that needs =
to be finished." Born in Dublin himself, Hughes is not a Vietnam =
veteran, but through the years has come to know the war and its lasting =
effects through the eyes of Irish veterans who served with American and =
Australian units, and from his work with Vietnamese refugees who settled =
in Ireland. In 1997, a friend travelled to Vietnam and returned with a =
ring reportedly taken from an American killed in action. Hughes set out =
to see if he could return the ring to the family of its owner.

In 1998, he travelled to Washington, D.C., where he met the late Libby =
Hatch, then with the Vietnam Veterans Memorial Fund. During that stay, =
Hughes attended a press conference near The Wall. When it was over, =
Hughes asked a question: When was the Travelling Wall going to Ireland? =
"They looked at me as if I had two heads," he said. Hughes wanted the =
Travelling Wall - and the attendant press coverage - in Ireland. He =
thought that based on the rough math he'd been doing, there had to be =
more Irish Vietnam veterans. And he needed a way to get the word out =
that he was looking for them. "If you assume the millions of Americans =
who claim Irish ancestry are correct, you have to make the next logical =
jump from that which is a percentage of them went into the American =
military and a percentage of them went to Vietnam and a percentage of =
them died."

Hughes returned to Ireland to continue his search. When Libby Hatch =
discovered three American Legion posts in Ireland, she notified Hughes. =
He wrote to them, but only one responded. He addressed the post, telling =
them of his search but coming away thinking few, if any, believed he=92d =
turn anything up. But clues continued to dribble in. He went on a talk =
show that led to more information. He found a third Irish veteran killed =
in Vietnam, then a fourth. The Irish news media started to pay attention =
to the story. On Veterans Day in 1998, a wreath was laid at The Wall to =
honour the Irish-born killed in Vietnam. For three weeks in April and =
May 1999, the Travelling Wall toured the Four Provinces of Ireland, =
recognising the men and their families for the first time. For the first =
time, the families met one another, many of them believing their =
relatives had been the only Irish-born to die in Vietnam. Everywhere The =
Wall went, the Irish news media covered the story.

Eventually, Hughes would find 16 Irish-born veterans killed in Vietnam =
while serving with U.S. forces. "No-one knows how many the total will =
be," he said. "I think a lot of the Irish and Irish-Americans who served =
could be particularly helpful in finding them. I'm fairly certain they =
would have known of other guys in Vietnam, no matter what other area =
they served in. I reckon that if you're in Vietnam, no matter if =
you're in the front or the back, you hear an Irish voice and you =
recognise it and remember it. I think a lot of guys have information I =
would love to have, particularly Irish guys who now live in America."

Anyone wishing to contact him should write to: Declan Hughes, Irish =
Vietnam Veterans Project, Top Floor, 119 Capel Street, Dublin 1, =
Republic of Ireland.=20

Telephone/Fax from U.S. (011-353-1) 872-2371. E-mail: dectwth[at]tinet.ie =
(or, dectwth[at]eircom.ie)

From: "Elizabeth Malcolm"
Subject: Irish in Vietnam War


Dear Paddy,

As someone of Irish parentage, who had brothers, friends and students
conscripted in Australia in the late '60s and early '70s for service in
Vietnam, I am wondering how many of the Irish-born who went there were
conscripts as opposed to volunteers. I presume that they were all
volunteers, as my hazy recollection is that the non-native born were not
conscripted in Australia. I don't know what happened in the States.

But this does seem to me to raise a general issue about the propensity of
the Irish to fight in other people's wars. I've been doing some work
recently on English images of the Irish as a 'martial race', on a par with
the Scots and the Sikhs, the Maoris and the Gurkhas. This work underlines -
and I know it's not at all a new point - the complexity of English
attitudes. On the one hand, they could deplore the drunken, fighting Irish
and the 'Irish row', but on the other hand admire the Irish as soldiers. I
have a student who did some work on Kipling, and he does exactly this. And
of course throughout the 19th century the Irish were heavily
over-represented in the British army, both in the ranks and in the officer
corps. As has been pointed out - and again I think this is well known -
during the 1840s at least, there were more Irish in the British army than
English.

You can easily interpret this as obviously the exploitation of colonials by
the imperial power, but that's too facile. Anyway, it doesn't explain why
the Irish were so ready to fight in wars that didn't involve the English at
all.

I'd actually like to know how many Irish-born are in the British, US and
Australian armies today? Does anyone know? Or did the Irish 'martial
tradition' end with Vietnam? (I should explain that I am excluding
'international peace keeping' from this question, in which I know the
Irish army has played a substantial and valued role over many years.)

Elizabeth Malcolm
Liverpool

From: Frank Neal
FNeal33544[at]aol.com [mailto:FNeal33544[at]aol.com]
Subject: Irish in Manchester


I have,belatedly,got round to studying a backlog of messages.These included
Marion Casey's query about the Irish in Manchester.As is well known,Mervyn
Busteed has done a considerable amount of work on the Census data re
Manchester.In my recent book 'Black'47:Britain and the Famine Irish' there is
a fairly extensive treatment of the impact of Famine refugees on Manchester
during 1847.Marion's student may also be interested in the following:

(1)' The Manchester Origins of the English Orange Order' in Manchester Region
History Review,Vol.1V,No.2,Autumn/Winter 1990-91,pp 12-24.

(2)' English-Irish conflict in the North-West of
England:Economics,Racism,Anti-Catholicism or Simple Xenophobia?,in North-West
Labour History,Issue No.16.1991/92,pp14-25.

If Marion's student contacts me I will send her copies of the above.

Frank Neal

From: "Marion R. Casey"
Subject: Re: Ir-D Interfaith marriages/Landlords and tenants



Willie,

You might take a look at

Bishop Loughlin's Dispensations, Diocese of Brooklyn : genealogical
information from the marriage dispensation records of the Roman Catholic
Diocese of Brooklyn, Kings, Queens and Suffolk counties New York
by Joseph M. Silinonte (Brooklyn, N.Y. : The Author, 1996)

There is a copy at NYPL; it is also available from Joe directly. I know
he had a lot of data on Irish interfaith marriages in late nineteenth
century Brooklyn and Long Island.

Also, see chapter 16 (pp. 395-415) in Bayor & Meagher, The New York Irish
(Johns Hopkins, 1996) for the relationship to real estate (landlords,
renting, etc.) in the early twentieth century.

Good luck,

Marion Casey
Department of History
New York University

From: E.Delaney[at]Queens-Belfast.AC.UK
Irish in Britain

Many thanks to Sarah Morgan for her interesting and
very informative response to my query concerning evidence of
marginalisation, discrimination and levels of ill-health
suffered by Irish migrants in Britain. I apologise for the
delay in responding as I was away on a short research trip.

I'm still not fully convinced that my original query was fully
answered. Sarah seems to equate perceptions of Northern Ireland
as a 'problem' with perceptions of Irish migrants in Britain,
although there is a subtle yet important difference. Basically,
what I am speculating about is the relationship between IRA
activities in Britain and anti-Irish racism from the Coventry
bombings in 1939 until the 1990s. I have come across much
anecdotal evidence which suggests that Irish migrants
experienced verbal abuse and harassment in the workplace after
IRA bombings from the mid-1970s onwards and that this
contributed to a general process of 'keeping your head
down' for fear of being singled out (Alex Peach's earlier
contribution would seem to support this view).

I am not seeking to deny the range of factors which feed into
anti-Irish racism, both historical and contemporary, but rather
as an historian to assess what role IRA activities in Britain
played in this complex process. In other words, did anti-Irish
racism take different form in the 1950s and 1960s than the
1970s, or in a counterfactual sense without IRA bombings would
things have beengreatly different? Much of the research
completed on these issues seems to relate to the post-1970
period (as evidenced by Sarah's very helpful bibliography), but
is there a historical continuity over the twentieth century and
if not, why not?

Enda Delaney
School of Modern History
The Queen's University of Belfast

From: Linda Dowling Almeida
"Almeida, Ed (Exchange)"
Subject: RE: Ir-D Irish in Britain (Resumed)

I cannot answer your continuity question, but can only add to the anecdotal
evidence that IRA activity in the 1970s contributed to anti-Irish feelings
in London. Having spoken with a nun who worked among the Irish in London in
that time she echoed your evidence that people in the community "kept their
head down" because of English hostility related to the bombings.

Linda Dowling Almeida
New York University

> -----Original Message-----
> From: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk [SMTP:irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 16, 2000 2:15 PM
> To: irish-diaspora[at]Bradford.ac.uk
> Subject: Ir-D Irish in Britain (Resumed)1
>
>
>
> From: E.Delaney[at]Queens-Belfast.AC.UK
> Irish in Britain
>
> Many thanks to Sarah Morgan for her interesting and
> very informative response to my query concerning evidence of
> marginalisation, discrimination and levels of ill-health
> suffered by Irish migrants in Britain. I apologise for the
> delay in responding as I was away on a short research trip.
>
> I'm still not fully convinced that my original query was fully
> answered. Sarah seems to equate perceptions of Northern Ireland
> as a 'problem' with perceptions of Irish migrants in Britain,
> although there is a subtle yet important difference. Basically,
> what I am speculating about is the relationship between IRA
> activities in Britain and anti-Irish racism from the Coventry
> bombings in 1939 until the 1990s. I have come across much
> anecdotal evidence which suggests that Irish migrants
> experienced verbal abuse and harassment in the workplace after
> IRA bombings from the mid-1970s onwards and that this
> contributed to a general process of 'keeping your head
> down' for fear of being singled out (Alex Peach's earlier
> contribution would seem to support this view).
>
> I am not seeking to deny the range of factors which feed into
> anti-Irish racism, both historical and contemporary, but rather
> as an historian to assess what role IRA activities in Britain
> played in this complex process. In other words, did anti-Irish
> racism take different form in the 1950s and 1960s than the
> 1970s, or in a counterfactual sense without IRA bombings would
> things have beengreatly different? Much of the research
> completed on these issues seems to relate to the post-1970
> period (as evidenced by Sarah's very helpful bibliography), but
> is there a historical continuity over the twentieth century and
> if not, why not?
>
> Enda Delaney
> School of Modern History
> The Queen's University of Belfast
>

From Patrick O'Sullivan

A warm welcome to...

Paul O'Leary, Immigration and Integration: The Irish in Wales, 1798-1922, Studies in
Welsh History, University of Wales Press, Cardiff, 2000
ISBN 0 7083 1584 4
The first book-length study of the Irish in modern Wales. Paul O'Leary has a thorough
knowledge of the history of Ireland, and of the history of Wales, and of the debates
within Irish Diaspora Studies. Not just in Britain - he also looks at debates in North
America. So that the book uses the experience of the Irish in Wales to conduct a dialogue
with the existing historiography. I am now settling down to enjoy a careful reading of his
surefooted placing of the history of the Irish in Wales within those debates.

A lengthy review of this volume will appear on the Irish-Diaspora list at a later date.

P.O'S.

- --
Patrick O'Sullivan
Head of the Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Email Patrick O'Sullivan
Irish-Diaspora list
Irish Diaspora Studies http://www.brad.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/

Personal Fax National 0870 088 1512
Fax International +44 870 088 1512

Irish Diaspora Research Unit
Department of Interdisciplinary Human Studies
University of Bradford
Bradford BD7 1DP
Yorkshire
England

From: Jill Blee
Subject: The things you find in old books

Dear Paddy,

I'm spending most of my days at the moment reading the Ballarat Courier
1870 - 75 in the Mechanics Institute. There were wonderful 19C
establishments all over Victoria to provide opportunities for working
men to improve their minds. Our Mechanics Institute is haveing a sale of
old books and I found one I thought you might be interested in. It is
"The Irish before the Conquest" by M.C.Ferguson, published in 1868.
Across the top of the first chapter heading some 19C borrower has
written "The Celts introduced battle and murder among men"

As I am busy with my research into the Irish in Ballarat in 1875, the
book itself is of no use to me. It is in poor condition but I will
willingly send it to anyone who wants it for the cost of the postage and
a small donation to the Mechanics Institute which is trying to raise
funds to restore their beautiful building to its 19C glory,

Jill Blee

[Note: Please contact Jill Blee directly if you are interested in the Ferguson volume.
And I leave to her the judgement of Solomon... P.O'S.]